Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.

ricksang

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:e32318d7-8c78-4b56-8e3e-9d344a8ef707">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok, this one is flamable so I will try to explain it to the best I can (and if others catch my drift and can explain it better feel free). But sometimes hearing "at the end of the day you'll be married and that's all that matters" really bugs me. Yes I agree with the sentiment, and yes that's what is the most important thing about the day, but if shiit hits the fan I think most people would be upset about it. People have spent a lot of time and money with weddings so while the marriage is the important part, it doesn't make the bad things just disappear from memory.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]
Because our wedding was a 40,000 sh1tfest I agree with this completely. We still dwell on it lol.
I

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:8e9966c3-976c-4217-ae90-fd7bcfa0dd81">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]I hate hearing about how having a personal attendant is horrible, because you "shouldn't ask a friend to be a slave."  I had a personal attendant and I would have been shiit without her.  I would also love to be a personal attendant for ANY bride. I also hate hearing about how you should never ask people to pour punch, hand out programs, etc.  I know to some people it's crap jobs but I actually knew people who really enjoyed and wanted to do it. 
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

I totally hear what you are saying with this, but for me, it's the words Personal Attendant that make it seem icky. It's really just a friend that is there to help you out on the day of and that's fine, but I just think personal attendant sounds like someone that you are allowed to order around. I also wonder why your BMs could not help you out the day of? Again, not knocking you, just trying to understand.

MeaghanandMichael

I also truly can't comprehend how people can compartmentalize what you offer your guests at the reception. If you don't want to offer something (booze, favors what have you) I get it. As long as people aren't leaving the party gnawing their own arms off in hunger, your wedding is ok by me. BUT, how is one thing offered at a wedding for sale and another not? Why is alcohol different than food? I have never understood the differentiation. I get booze is expensive, but so are weddings. You make a budget, you stick to it. HALP!

Y I Oughta

I can't stand when people tell a bride not to order the BM dresses earlier than six months or so before. I ordered mine last April for my wedding this June. Two of them came in so wrong they had to order two whole new dresses. Had I waited until six months out I wouldn't have dresses for two of my girls because they took so long for the replacements to arrive.

And picking BM with less than a year to go is ok for some people, but not when you know you want your sister/daughter/BFF since childhood. There are very few situations where those relationships will change to the point that you aren't speaking come time of the wedding. I say to each their own. If you do these things too early then you have to deal with the consequences.

[Deleted User]

I also hate it when people try to tell me not to eat babies at my wedding. I mean, what's it to you? As long as it's not your baby, who cares?

[Deleted User]

I can't say. It may jeopardize our 'relationship'. But I can tell you that it starts with my and ends with whorey cousin.

avsfan33

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:62739895-f984-4ff8-8b05-83544c056fe0">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE] And picking BM with less than a year to go is ok for some people, but not when you know you want your sister/daughter/BFF since childhood. <strong>There are very few situations where those relationships will change to the point that you aren't speaking come time of the wedding</strong>. I say to each their own. If you do these things too early then you have to deal with the consequences.
Posted by Y I Oughta[/QUOTE]

I thought this.  You'd be surprised.

cha+ching

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:7ea7741a-dfc9-46fe-bdee-952754e46b22">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think I would just call her your "Awesome Person". She seriously sounds fantastic.  I want one...but just for everyday life really.
Posted by rhonwynv[/QUOTE]


This. My "Awesome Person" is a really good friend who is just getting started in wedding planning. She wants so badly to plan the entire wedding, so she's constantly sending me messages of things not to forget and sales on things I want/need. She's already been a life saver... Wish I could put her in my pocket and keep her forever :)

kimheartsscott

WTF where do I get one of these awesome people? I want one.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:681621f4-c2f6-4b76-9804-bbca5f07cf06">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]I also truly can't comprehend how people can compartmentalize what you offer your guests at the reception. If you don't want to offer something (booze, favors what have you) I get it. As long as people aren't leaving the party gnawing their own arms off in hunger, your wedding is ok by me. BUT, how is one thing offered at a wedding for sale and another not? Why is alcohol different than food? I have never understood the differentiation. I get booze is expensive, but so are weddings. You make a budget, you stick to it. HALP!
Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

OMFG yes. It's like they woke up one day and realized weddings/alcohol were expensive. HELLO. Why are you planning a wedding if you have no idea how to budget or what things cost? You might want to grow up, first.

Financial emergencies are one thing, but just neglecting to budget for alcohol or to find out what food and alcohol will cost before booking everything else is just dumb.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:3070a123-9fed-4dbc-a976-d2ad2c11e4b1">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]I also hate when people say "You have no right to feel that way." Sure, she does.  She can feel however she wants.  But let's just watch the actions that come as a result of the feelings, and not let the feelings ruin our lives, ok?
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

This is my favorite. I used to say this a lot, actually. I had a friend once upon a time who basically thought all my emotions were stupid and I used to tell her, "well, duh, I can't help it if I feel upset. I'm allowed." Of course, she usually felt my emotions were invalid when she said or did something that offended me or made me feel upset.

jasmineh7777

Alcohol is different than food because alcohol is just "for fun."  I need to eat. (Really, or I am a grumpy guss.)

I may invite you to my house for dinner. Would you complain if I didn't have alcohol there? So why should I have it at my wedding? 

I don't know if that makes any sense at all.  

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:aaff0998-3181-43de-860a-a450d7e501c1">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh, that reminds me.  I hate when people say "YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CLEAR CUT OFF FOR CHILDREN, YOU CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE!"  Yeah?  What makes kids special snowflakes that you can't pick and choose, unlike adults?  You can pick and choose kids just like you pick and choose adults.  Now if you were picking and choosing kids in the same family without some clear cut off, I might side eye that.  But kids of family vs kids of friends?  Meh.  Or cousins' kids but not second cousins' kids?  Whatev.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

J, I am totally picking up what you are putting down today.

Yes, you can choose kids. Just like you can pick and choose coworkers. Doesn't mean there won't be a shitstorm, of course, depending on your family, but you can do it!

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:fb840b0f-9b7e-4058-9df3-01c9d7728dd4">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]Alcohol is different than food because alcohol is just "for fun."  I need to eat. (Really, or I am a grumpy guss.) I may invite you to my house for dinner. Would you complain if I didn't have alcohol there? So why should I have it at my wedding?  I don't know if that makes any sense at all.  
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

That totally makes sense for me. It's the whole, "well, they can pay for it if they want it" attitude that gets to me. I've actually mentioned that I went to a dry reception on a Saturday night. It was an OOT wedding, too. It was dry for religious reasons. We still had a good time, surprisingly. I really didn't miss the alcohol. the bride and groom also had board game centerpieces, which would get a huge side-eye here, but it was so "them." Their wedding was great, and because of that, I take some advice with a grain of salt, since absolutely no one thought their wedding was rude or boring.

(Although, even if I don't drink alcohol... which I do, but we'll put that aside for now... I'd have it for guests. My parents never drank hard liquor, but they dusted off the liquor cabinet when they had a crowd of people over. I HATE cola, but I'll buy coke when my MIL or my mom come to visit, you know?)

katiewhompus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:fb840b0f-9b7e-4058-9df3-01c9d7728dd4">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]Alcohol is different than food because alcohol is just "for fun."  I need to eat. (Really, or I am a grumpy guss.)<strong> I may invite you to my house for dinner. Would you complain if I didn't have alcohol there</strong>? So why should I have it at my wedding?  I don't know if that makes any sense at all.  
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I think is a good indicator. If I invite someone over for dinner we don't offer alcohol because neither one of us drinks and neither do most of our friends. But I know plently of friends who always offer alcohol with dinner.  It's just about knowing your crowd and what they want.

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:fb840b0f-9b7e-4058-9df3-01c9d7728dd4">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]Alcohol is different than food because alcohol is just "for fun."  I need to eat. (Really, or I am a grumpy guss.) I may invite you to my house for dinner. Would you complain if I didn't have alcohol there? So why should I have it at my wedding?  I don't know if that makes any sense at all.  
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. Food is a necessity. As long as you provide <em>something</em> to drink, I think it's fine to have a cash bar. You're not forcing anyone to open their wallets as long as there's water/juice/coffee/whatever.

And ditto the JOP thing. Unless you went and filed your papers the day you had your ceremony, you didn't get legally married on your wedding day either. If it's not lying for one reason or the other, who cares? *may contain bias*

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:296ba6c7-a863-4078-9153-9c451d8d15ec">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : OMFG yes. It's like they woke up one day and realized weddings/alcohol were expensive. HELLO. Why are you planning a wedding if you have no idea how to budget or what things cost? You might want to grow up, first. Financial emergencies are one thing, but just neglecting to budget for alcohol or to find out what food and alcohol will cost before booking everything else is just dumb.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Not everyone has a budget for alcohol, and it's ridiculous to have to save up for years or however long just so you can afford an open bar. It's not always a matter of neglecting a budget or needing to grow up, but rather simply not having the funds. It's insulting to assume that people aren't budgeting properly or are being dumb if they don't serve alcohol.

AmusingBride

I think I'm repeating what someone else said but it's so awesome i'll say it again. I hate when people don't read the OP before commenting. I think there was a girl on E asking what to do about a pregnant BM that was 5 mos pregnant at the time of fitting and was keeping it a secret. The whole point that I got from the post was just whoa, the dress prob won't fit! Later responses check came out to be an a*hole but I saw her point to begin with.

katiewhompus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:f4cc31e0-fdd8-4ffe-a055-5f69fa94c8a6">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think I'm repeating what someone else said but it's so awesome i'll say it again. I hate when people don't read the OP before commenting. I think there was a girl on E asking what to do about a pregnant BM that was 5 mos pregnant at the time of fitting and was keeping it a secret. The whole point that I got from the post was just whoa, the dress prob won't fit! Later responses check came out to be an a*hole but I saw her point to begin with.
Posted by AmusingBride[/QUOTE]

Unless we're talking about different threads...

No, the point was asking if she should kick her out of the wedding or not because she kept it a secret. That's why she got the responses she did.

jasmineh7777

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:40b78e66-ac1d-4dfd-8af4-553d70084b2e">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : I think is a good indicator. If I invite someone over for dinner we don't offer alcohol because neither one of us drinks and neither do most of our friends. But I know plently of friends who always offer alcohol with dinner.  It's just about knowing your crowd and what they want.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying here.
 
But I also have to say that I wouldn't go out and buy alcohol if I invited certain friends for dinner. I don't drink much. H doesnt' really drink at all. We don't keep alcohol in the house.This isn't news to anyone in my crowd.

If I invite you to dinner, provide you with food and drink, and you get huffy about a lack of alcohol, well then I won't invite you again. Isn't my company enough?

katiewhompus

Exactly Jas. Adults can have a good time without alcohol or being drunk.

Now if it's a college frat party with no booze...

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:59610e0c-65a1-4d94-ae70-1354e85dfdaf">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : Not everyone has a budget for alcohol, and it's ridiculous to have to save up for years or however long just so you can afford an open bar. It's not always a matter of neglecting a budget or needing to grow up, but rather simply not having the funds. <strong>It's insulting to assume that people aren't budgeting properly or are being dumb if they don't serve alcohol.</strong>
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

I didn't say or assume that.

JennaV26

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:2eb1d207-ac3c-415a-8cd2-f4dfe5a75836">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]Exactly Jas. Adults can have a good time without alcohol or being drunk. <strong>Now if it's a college frat party with no booze...</strong>
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

<div>That my dear would be considered a study group. </div>

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:98c87c98-64be-4987-9496-dd9e9741fb53">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : I didn't say or assume that.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I worded it wrong. I meant that it's not always a case of not realizing what things cost before getting into planning. I'd hate to think that one of my guests thought that I didn't serve alcohol because I didn't budget properly, and then think I was dumb for not thinking things through first.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:e71472bd-cbd1-477c-b763-aab7b915054d">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : Sorry, I worded it wrong. I meant that it's not always a case of not realizing what things cost before getting into planning. I'd hate to think that one of my guests thought that I didn't serve alcohol because I didn't budget properly, and then think I was dumb for not thinking things through first.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge, you never came to the TK board saying, "OMG, having an open bar for 150 guests will cost $3,000?! I don't have that extra money and I already bought a $5000 wedding dress and have a contract with a limo bus for my 18 person wedding party. What do I DO?! Cash bars are okay, right?" <- that's more of what I'm talking about. And the type of post where I'll tell people straight out, "duh, weddings are expensive, WTF did you think would happen?"

Don't worry. I know you didn't have 150 people or a $5,000 wedding dress. ;-)

I know other people have said they don't mind cash bars for any reason. I don't mind cash bars for certain reasons, but running out of money and deciding that's an okay option isn't one of those reasons. Unless it's an emergency.

AmusingBride

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:cdf299f3-df4b-4f5e-b8aa-1c4310512a4a">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : Unless we're talking about different threads... No, the point was asking if she should kick her out of the wedding or not because she kept it a secret. That's why she got the responses she did.
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]

Damnit straight to hell. I re-read it, guess I should take my own advice. lol

JennaV26

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:4ea481cb-c1f9-40ad-8625-53938feea05c">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : To my knowledge, you never came to the TK board saying, "OMG, having an open bar for 150 guests will cost $3,000?! I don't have that extra money and I already bought a $5000 wedding dress and have a contract with a limo bus for my 18 person wedding party. What do I DO?! Cash bars are okay, right?" <- that's more of what I'm talking about. And the type of post where I'll tell people straight out, "duh, weddings are expensive, WTF did you think would happen?" Don't worry. I know you didn't have 150 people or a $5,000 wedding dress. ;-) I know other people have said they don't mind cash bars for any reason. I don't mind cash bars for certain reasons, but running out of money and deciding that's an okay option isn't one of those reasons. Unless it's an emergency.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>See, I have to be honest, this is what bothers me. If a $5,000 wedding dress and a large wedding party are higher priorities to someone than an open bar who has the right to judge her? Who cares? 
</div><div>
</div><div>Are cash bars my favorite? No. But I wouldn't begrudge someone their dream dress or a fancy limo so that I could get sloshed for free. </div>

squeakyduck

I hate being told that to save money I should cut guests.

People are more important than food/flowers/dresses/favors/booze/centerpieces. 

I would rather change my "dream flowers" than not invite someone. 

i would rather have my best friends standing up there with me than have identical dresses. If that means I have to give up on some "vision" I had of the dresses, and switch to cheaper ones so that my friends can afford it, so be it. 

MeaghanandMichael

I would never not offer some one wine/a drink with dinner. It is not about getting WASTED but about offering all options to some one you are hosting - even just in the privacy of your own home. I also don't think I would feel it was SO RUDE if my friend never offered me wine. I get that some people have completely different priorities than me, hence my non objection to dry weddings.

This is an obvious case of being a gracious hostess versus a gracious guest and many of you are playing the gracious guest card. That is not the point. We are talking about the bride's role as hostess NOT guest. A hosted social situation of large scale proportions should call for different mores than a house dinner, no? The budget doesn't have to be huge for alcohol. Why nto chose a venue that lets you bring your own wine and beer? These things should all be factored in. In the end, if you are hosting, you are paying. If you chose not to host for all the reasons mentioned by you ladies above, it makes sense.

MeaghanandMichael

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cookie-cutter-tk-advice-hate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:840a1d72-d47c-4764-a01d-9e3db712f1fdPost:7ec940cb-b207-4182-b0ca-3c0f38288454">Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cookie cutter TK advice you hate. : Yeah. I'm kind of agreeing with this. I'm not a fan of cash bars, but I'm also not a fan of judging how people spend their money.
Posted by cew515[/QUOTE]


This is something I am always always torn on. In my every day life, I whole heartedly agree is butting out of people's spending habits but for some reason, weddings are a bit different than me. I guess it is because the intrinsic nature of a wedding reception involves other people and other's needs and requires an etiquette about balancing your hostessing versus your own wants and needs. It just feels like if you are chosing to invite people to something you are throwing, you probably want to be considerate of them too. Of course, they are free to decline or leave at any point, but why let it go there if these people are your family and friends?