Liability on a whole new level

Starmusica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:1d9f343c-0cb7-430c-9369-9cdc6dc761f9">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : If the judge finds her guilty, he is setting precedent for any and all other cases like this.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]


thankfully the precedential value is likely limited. It depends on what court this is. And this could EASILY be overturned by appeal or another decision. A single ruling alone is not always precedent unless it's a ruling from the highest case of a state (which has precedent in that state) or the Supreme court (over the US). If this is a trial court in NJ than it's value is EXTREMELY limited.

LetsHikeToday

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:2cadd1af-a432-4898-972c-47431f267d95">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : Yes
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]


So how do you protect yourself?

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:1f4c60e8-3c91-43fe-bfed-6153eb9cb746">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : So how do you protect yourself?
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

You dont?  I guess the defense is that you can deny serving someone for whatever reason you want.  Also, the clubs have insurance for this type of stuff and should help defend you in a criminal case, but you are on your own in a civil case.

Here is another fun fact.  At the clubs here, we have trained doorman that check ID's.  So when people come up to the bar, you dont card them because they already had to prove age at the door and its a 21+ place.  So if someone gets in with a fake ID, and you serve them, you can get arrested for serving a minor.

The defence for that is that you have the right to ID anyone at anytime as a bartender so if you dont think they look 21, you can ask them for an ID.

Starmusica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:4a642668-7bd6-4fa4-951b-ddbb04813a84">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : You dont?  I guess the defense is that you can deny serving someone for whatever reason you want.  Also, the clubs have insurance for this type of stuff and should help defend you in a criminal case, but you are on your own in a civil case. Here is another fun fact.  At the clubs here, we have trained doorman that check ID's. <strong> So when people come up to the bar, you dont card them because they already had to prove age at the door and its a 21+ place.  So if someone gets in with a fake ID, and you serve them, you can get arrested for serving a minor.</strong> The defence for that is that you have the right to ID anyone at anytime as a bartender so if you dont think they look 21, you can ask them for an ID.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]


I've always wondered about this but never looked into the law. That is utter bullshit.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:ae4e899f-1ef2-4ba5-9bd2-f63eb1dc3ec4">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : I've always wondered about this but never looked into the law. That is utter bullshit.
Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]

Also- because bartenders are at will employees, basically independent contractors, Im not entirely sure the clubs insurance has to cover them or help them out.

chelseamb11

The fact that people are even allowed to sue for shiiit like that (bartenders for a drunk driving accident) is ridiculous.  I judge any court that moves the liability to the "enabler" from the person who actually did it.  Unless you are actually FORCED to drive drunk or something else illegal that causes harm to someone else, you should be the ONLY one liable IMO.

Starmusica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:c37abc9d-634a-41ba-ae4b-76f689f1a118">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]The fact that people are even allowed to sue for shiiit like that (bartenders for a drunk driving accident) is ridiculous.  I judge any court that moves the liability to the "enabler" from the person who actually did it.  Unless you are actually FORCED to drive drunk or something else illegal that causes harm to someone else, you should be the ONLY one liable IMO.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]


I think the idea of these laws is 1- there should be SOME liability for bars that KNOWINGLY overserve someone. And I mean bars that see a person already falling over drunk and serves them another- it happens. 2- a lot of times someone injured by one of these idiot drivers will have HUGE medical expenses and more often than not, the ass that hit them doesn't have the money to pay. The law ensures SOMEONE pays- although I agree, it's the wrong party. Unless the bar falls under category 1, I don't think it's fair.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:84a1bcd4-80f9-4753-96ba-e0548cc1e351">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : I think the idea of these laws is 1- there should be SOME liability for bars that KNOWINGLY overserve someone. And I mean bars that see a person already falling over drunk and serves them another- it happens. 2- a lot of times someone injured by one of these idiot drivers will have HUGE medical expenses and more often than not, the ass that hit them doesn't have the money to pay. The law ensures SOMEONE pays- although I agree, it's the wrong party. Unless the bar falls under category 1, I don't think it's fair.
Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]

The part that bothers me about it Star is that you cannot prove that they didnt drink before they came or after they left, if drugs were involved, etc.

H had to go before a Grand Jury a few weeks ago because someone got stabbed at the club.  He didnt tell anyone he was stabbed and H just thought it was a fight.  H offered to call an ambulance or walk him across the street to a hospital and asked a few times if he needed medical help.  Because the kid had drugs on him and in his system he declined, said he was fine, it was just a fight.

The kid left with his friends, passed out and almost died from internal bleeding.  he is now suing the club and trying to sue H for liability.

Starmusica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:9cc6b0e2-99c9-42bd-a6c0-191b935d7149">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : The part that bothers me about it Star is that you cannot prove that they didnt drink before they came or after they left, if drugs were involved, etc. H had to go before a Grand Jury a few weeks ago because someone got stabbed at the club.  He didnt tell anyone he was stabbed and H just thought it was a fight.  H offered to call an ambulance or walk him across the street to a hospital and asked a few times if he needed medical help.  Because the kid had drugs on him and in his system he declined, said he was fine, it was just a fight. The kid left with his friends, passed out and almost died from internal bleeding.  he is now suing the club and trying to sue H for liability.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

oh no I agree with you- there are a TON of issues with it. I only think it's ok in cases where a bar/club is reckless (seeing that a person is falling over drunk and still givng them that one more beer- I've been in bars and seen this and been pissed). Otherwise- I think it's insane because you are right, you don't know what happened. The idea is that the rest of it will come out in court- but it doesn't all the time.

As for your husband's story- that is bull. good luck- hopefully the court can see that this kid refused help.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:78125b6f-53b1-4cc1-bc85-f6fca2123290">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : oh no I agree with you- there are a TON of issues with it<strong><u>. I only think it's ok in cases where a bar/club is reckless (seeing that a person is falling over drunk and still givng them that one more beer-</u></strong> I've been in bars and seen this and been pissed). Otherwise- I think it's insane because you are right, you don't know what happened. The idea is that the rest of it will come out in court- but it doesn't all the time. As for your husband's story- that is bull. good luck- hopefully the court can see that this kid refused help.
Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]

Yes, but all of the places I worked at would put people in cabs if they were too drunk and pay the cab fare, or would do the best they could to make sure there was a sober person taking care of them.

Starmusica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:92aa6503-6cf8-4b77-a948-14e4b294feb7">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Liability on a whole new level : Yes, but all of the places I worked at would put people in cabs if they were too drunk and pay the cab fare, or would do the best they could to make sure there was a sober person taking care of them.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]


Those aren't the kind of places I am talking about- it sounds like the places you have worked at have been VERY responsible. Sadly- not every place is.

chelseamb11

That is so effed up blue.  Did people at least witness your H trying to help?

What is this guy claiming your H did wrong anyway? Letting the fight happen? letting him leave?

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_liability-on-a-whole-new-level?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:b83224e7-2efb-497b-9600-ff3b5a1e849aPost:c2cb7913-dbdb-49ac-a234-3203041ec179">Re: Liability on a whole new level</a>:
[QUOTE]That is so effed up blue.  Did people at least witness your H trying to help? What is this guy claiming your H did wrong anyway? Letting the fight happen? letting him leave?
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

he is saying H gave him a bandaid, lol.

Its just that here the clubs are not liked by the city, so sadly this kid will probably win his suit against the club, but probably not against H.

bjhubble

I should really read ALLL the posts before I comment huh?  Sorry to bring up another topic all together like that!

Blue I hope everything goes ok for H.  I can't imagine people won't be able to see through the B.S. on that one.