There are some sick people

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:01881d36-cb41-4d62-bc23-01e46c1b15fc">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : Oh I get it. I get that in certain cases, appeals are necessary. However, I also get that in certain cases, appeals are BULLSH!T. Prime example, the case where my first cousin was shot and killed in cold blood by her boyfriend in their home. Her 2 children witnessed this. Her boyfriend fled the scene and went DRINKING a and proceeded to tell patrons in the bar what he had done. However, when he was arrested, guess what his story was? He didn't do it. Now, let's review. 2 children witnessed this shooting. The gun was in his vehicle. With his fingerprints on it. It had been recently fired. Oh yea, and the residue was found on his hands. He bragged about the shooting to patrons in a bar. Yes, he was convicted. However he is now is petitioning to have his case reviewed and get a new trial. Shall we continue?
Posted by 2010Bride2be[/QUOTE]

That's fine, I get it.  But you can't pick and choose who gets the right to petition for appeal.  If it's THAT cut and dry, and no one fuucked it up somewhere along the line, his appeal likely won't be granted.  I'm very sorry that that happened to your family, and I wish nothing but justice and peace to you, but (and unfortunately in some cases) he still has a Constitutional right to attempt to appeal.

ricksang

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:eda886c3-c636-4f99-9e91-7d6897254672">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : According to Amnesty International, there are four whole countries to choose from: The People's Republic of<strong> China Iran Iraq Saudi Arabia </strong>The US is fifth on AI's list of countries ranked by the number of executions carried out in 2009, so I wouldn't bother looking elsewhere. YWIA!
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

These places are a lot worse than the US, especially for women.

J&K10910

Celles, I think I love you.

Celles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:01881d36-cb41-4d62-bc23-01e46c1b15fc">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : Oh I get it. I get that in certain cases, appeals are necessary. <strong>However, I also get that in certain cases, appeals are BULLSH!T</strong>
Posted by 2010Bride2be[/QUOTE]

Negative, Ghost Rider.

The ever-present "threat" of appeals keeps law enforcement and the judicial system honest.  If a convicted criminal was denied the right to appeal because his case appeared to be open-and-shut, then what would prevent the police or prosecution from cutting corners in similar cases or circumventing due process?

2010Bride2be

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:0338e08d-166d-4560-96e0-99c743d1bf19">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : That's fine, I get it.  But you can't pick and choose who gets the right to petition for appeal.  If it's THAT cut and dry, and no one fuucked it up somewhere along the line, his appeal likely won't be granted.  I'm very sorry that that happened to your family, and I wish nothing but justice and peace to you, but (and unfortunately in some cases) he still has a Constitutional right to attempt to appeal.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

I can understand and respect where you are coming from. I do believe that everyone has the right to due process, however I have seen the justice system sh%t on the victim so many times, its not even funny. Its almost as if the criminal has more rights than the victim. I admit, with me, its very personal, so my POV may not be as cut and dry as another's.

ricksang

Okay I am getting pissed with both sides in this thread. I can't post anymore.

I also think B2B is an AE but whatever.

Celles

It is most definitely mutual, J&K. 

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:0f1dfe02-2ab3-416e-9603-824b3dbddd56">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : Negative, Ghost Rider. The ever-present "threat" of appeals keeps law enforcement and the judicial system honest.  <strong>If a convicted criminal was denied the right to appeal because his case appeared to be open-and-shut, then what would prevent the police or prosecution from cutting corners in similar cases or circumventing due process?</strong>
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

Personal pride?  Reputation?   The inherent need of all humans to be honest with themselves above everthing else?

Wait...

megk8oz

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:1543ba34-3343-4a2c-9368-be46854f0b83">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : While it truly sucks that this happened to your family, what would your other options be? Not let him appeal? Whether we like it or not, appeals are there for those that truly need it.<strong> I'd rather see it be taken advantage of by 100 shitty people than have it taken away from 1 person who really deserves it.
</strong>Posted by cew515[/QUOTE]

I whole-heartedly agree with this. If you take away appeals for one person, then that means you need to take them away for everybody. And, personally, I don't think the people that really could be rightfully saved by an appeal deserve to have that taken away from them.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:ca53007b-a2dd-4251-852d-2b399e44ccde">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : I can understand and respect where you are coming from. I do believe that everyone has the right to due process, however I have seen the justice system sh%t on the victim so many times, its not even funny. Its almost as if the criminal has more rights than the victim. I admit, with me, its very personal, so my POV may not be as cut and dry as another's.
Posted by 2010Bride2be[/QUOTE]

I understand feeling cheated and shiit on by the system.  And that sometimes the system just doesn't quite work the way we hoped it would.  But everything is in place to protect innocent people.

I get that you have a high level of personal bias, and I would guess I would as well.  There's certainly nothing wrong with that, as we all have personal biases about things we feel strongly about for one reason or another, but it's important to acknowledge that it colors your opinion on something. 

Celles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:5ae69abf-72de-4eb2-bc58-2fe1c7ac5f94">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: There are some sick people : These places are a lot worse than the US, especially for women.
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]

That's the point, Ricks. 

China, Iran, Iraq and Saudia Arabia are ranked 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the world in the terms of numbers of executions carried out in 2009.  The US is ranked 5th.  If someone wants to live in a country where an eye-for-eye mentality is <em>more </em>accepted than it is in the US, then these are the only options.  

Most of the countries the US considers "peers" have abolished capital punishment.  The fact that we're more like our economical and ideological enemies than we are our closest allies in this regard is, imo, telling.  And sad.  Mostly sad.

ohwhynot

I agree with what Celles says about the other countries - do we really want to aspire to that type of criminal "justice"? 

I also can imagine that if a person who hurt a loved one of mine got off with a light or no punishment, I'd be outraged and angry, probably forever.  I, too, have the visceral desire to see people who hurt others be hurt, even killed.  I don't think I'm any better - I feel a thirst for vengeance just like others do. 

But I can't get behind ACTUALLY torturing people or putting them to death.  Or, for that matter, eliminating or reducing due process.

ricksang

 I am for the DP is some instances so I don't agree that it's sad but I do believe everyone should get due process and appeals. I don't think kids should be put to death most of the time. This isn't the middle age  FFS.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_there-sick-people?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f140efd7-722c-48ab-908a-4dcfcaf9cadfPost:cf80f79f-c7db-4cc8-86b3-9841db2ff2da">Re: There are some sick people</a>:
[QUOTE] I am for the DP is some instances so I don't agree that it's sad but I do believe everyone should get due process and appeals. <strong>I don't think kids should be put to death most of the time. This isn't the middle age  FFS.</strong>
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]

Agreed.  Yeah, he's 19, but in terms of psychological/neurological/brain development, he's still a kid.  His executive decision making and self control part of the brain isn't fully developed yet. 

ricksang

Like I said before we also don't know all the facts!

Lenore2010

Sir Thomas Moore was credited with saying "If you cut down all the laws to get to the devil, what will you have when the devil comes after you?". 

Indeed, there are reasons for appeals and for due process itself. I for one am glad that Darlie Routier has not run out legal options, not because I think she is innocent but because I am not 110% sure she is guilty and she IS on TX death row. 

I might add that MN entertained the DP back in the 1990's when Arne Carlson was governor and what ended the debate were cost issues, not moral ones.

Ironically, this whole discussion was sparked by a kid that near as I can tell from news stories (which can granted be very flawed) may well be very guilty, but I think the discussion is still a valuable one.

That's what I like about SB. The smartest people on TK post here.

missy68

Ever heard of the West Memphis Three? A confession was allegedly given, 3 kids were convicted because the police and town turned it into a witch hunt, and guess who they picked? The 3 kids who were different than the rest. One's on death row, 2 are serving life sentences.  None of the details in the confession matched the crime scene and the police chalked it up to him getting "confused." No lawyer present, no parent present for a kid with an IQ of 72.

Thank God for the appeals process

SondraDee3

How awful I hope they find and convict the person that did this.