Disaster! Help!

tidetravel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:4c0706f3-7638-4b72-888e-e9f9072de51c">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Disaster! Help! : hehe . . . thank you for the attitude warning, that's a cute way to prepare someone for your little rant. I am actually curious to know, what about the original post give you the "slave impression" I think a lot of people just jump to that conclusion but I don't know why.  Maybe my tone was too stressed when I wrote it.  (I was, afterall, feeling hurt.)  But you should read my post that explains how little I have asked of any of the girls. Why do some people make such rash assumptions without getting more information? You are pretty critical without really taking in the full context of any of this issue. As another point of interest, this same MOH gets very offended if any bridesmaids do anything to help and she wasn't invited.  I feel like she wants it both ways.
Posted by briawna[/QUOTE]

To answer your question; a lot of the regulars have been here for a long time, and most of what we see are the rants of entitled brides.  To be honest, your OP was long, so I skimmed it (thank you for using paragraphs, though!), and felt that I got the gist of what you were upset about.  Your subsequent follow up posts explained things a little better, but sometimes people that come late to a post will answer the OP without reading through the whole thread, which is why you probably got answers to your OP even after you clarified. 

That being said, I think that you handled yourself gracefully.  These boards are known for being honest and blunt, and quite often, OP gets offended by the perceived attitude of the replies, rather than taking the time out to reflect on what was said.  Thank you for doing the latter.

I think if you re-read your OP, you'll probably see why you got the replies that you did in the first place.

sarah42nd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:1d42cfc5-a124-441f-a921-4ad5a874965e">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Disaster! Help! : Yes, sarah42nd, she is.  I didn't want to mention a specific religion because from what others have told me she is not the best example of their beliefs, and I don't want to cast bad light on a whole group of people just for her one example.  If you know anything else about this religion and how to deal with some pretty eccentric members, I would appreciate it!
Posted by briawna[/QUOTE]

My Fi has was baptized in 2001 . I will be baptized  LDS right after the wedding. She is NOT a  good example at all.  I would say maybe "learn" a little aboput  WOW ( words of Wisdom) then  she won't  treat like you don't know anything. Maybe "quote" a piece from a few people or something . Heres a pretty good article  about Elder Robert E. Wells Of the First Quorum of the Seventy about dealing with  WOW. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=52939c84f5d6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=52939c84f5d6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD</a>

I will see what else I can find .

PErsonally she seems a little off her rocker.  For instance when People ask my FI if he wants a beer all he says is "No Thank You". NO one will be offended . Not to mention its not like she is paying for the alcohol .  Now I could see why  she would be offended if she was.

FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO DON"T KNOW WHAT WOW IS HERE IT IS :

<p> In the Word of Wisdom, the Lord revealed that the following substances are harmful: </p> <p> </p><ul><li>Alcoholic drinks (see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/5-7#5">D&C 89:5–7</a>).</li><p> </p><li>Tobacco (see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/8#8">D&C 89:8</a>).</li><p> </p><li>Tea and coffee (see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/9#9">D&C 89:9</a>; latter-day prophets have taught that the term "hot drinks," as written in this verse, refers to tea and coffee).</li></ul> <p> When people purposefully take anything harmful into their bodies, they are not living in harmony with the Word of Wisdom. Illegal drugs can especially destroy those who use them. The abuse of prescription drugs is also destructive spiritually and physically. </p> <p> The Lord also declared in the Word of Wisdom that the following foods are good: </p> <p> </p><ul><li>Vegetables and fruits, which should be used "with prudence and thanksgiving" (see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/10-11#10">D&C 89:10–11</a>).</li><p> </p><li>The flesh "of beasts and of the fowls of the air," which is "to be used sparingly" (see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/12-13#12">D&C 89:12–13</a>).</li><p> </p><li>Grains such as wheat, rice, and oats, which are "the staff of life" (see <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/14-17#14">D&C 89:14–17</a>).</li></ul> <p> To those who keep the Word of Wisdom, the Lord promised: </p> <p> "All saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones; </p> <p> "And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures; </p> <p> "And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint. </p> <p> "And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them" (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/89/18-21#18">D&C 89:18–21</a>). </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>ALSO HERE IS A ARTICLE ABOUT WHAT MORMONS CAN AND CAN NOT EAT </p><a href="http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/whats-not-on-the-mormon-menu.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/whats-not-on-the-mormon-menu.html</a><p> </p>

aerinpegadrak

A wedding is a party.  It's a big, important party, but it's just a party.  All that's required to get married is an officiant, a license, and two consenting adults.  Anything beyond that is extra.

DH and I actually maintained the 'It's just a party" mantra throughout our planning, and our wedding was much better for it.  People who pin so much on five hours out of their entire lives are the ones who get to watch it all come crashing down, because they fall apart when something goes wrong.  The marriage is what's important.  The wedding is just a party.

gottahavashorti

CN of the followups?

But yeah, the ceremony is not a party.  But the officiant runs that.  The rest of the wedding hoopla is just a party.

tidetravel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:dbada568-8c60-4f62-8045-72b9cd04c296">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]CN of the followups? But yeah, the ceremony is not a party.  But the officiant runs that.  The rest of the wedding hoopla is just a party.
Posted by gottahavashorti[/QUOTE]
Gotta  -  OP explained that she wasn't really upset that her friend wasn't living up to her "duties," rather that she was disappointed because MOH had backed out of things that she had said that she would do.  After reading the thread, OP called her MOH and came to realize that there was miscommunication and friendship issues involved.  She has been gracious and *gasp* even thanked us :)

AutumnFair

In Response to <a style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:normal;color:#1f1f1f;" href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:4c0706f3-7638-4b72-888e-e9f9072de51c">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Disaster! Help! : hehe . . . thank you for the attitude warning, that's a cute way to prepare someone for your little rant. I am actually curious to know, what about the original post give you the "slave impression" I think a lot of people just jump to that conclusion but I don't know why.  Maybe my tone was too stressed when I wrote it.  (I was, afterall, feeling hurt.)  But you should read my post that explains how little I have asked of any of the girls. Why do some people make such rash assumptions without getting more information? You are pretty critical without really taking in the full context of any of this issue. As another point of interest, this same MOH gets very offended if any bridesmaids do anything to help and she wasn't invited.  I feel like she wants it both ways.
Posted by briawna[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Well, I take what you give me. </div><div>
</div><div>[QUOTE]<span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;" class="Apple-style-span">But now that I'm getting married and needing to rely on her for anything, she's compeltely MIA. She doesn't return my phone calls, only calls me when she's had a fight with her boyfriend, and <strong>hasn't done ANY of the MOH responsibilities</strong>.  <strong>I arranged for a bridesmaid's party to assemble our invitations and she sent me a text message two minutes after she was supposed to be there saying that she really needed to finish some homework.  I called and told her it was really important to me to have her help and she showed up an hour and half later</strong>, was grumpy the entire time, and insulted one of my other bridesmaids to her face. <strong> As soon as we were done she tried to run out the door.  I asked her if she could stay for just 5 minutes and go over some scheduling details to which she rolled her eyes and said, "Can't it wait till after August 7th?" </strong>(This was earlier in the summer, my wedding is August 29!!) I was floored.  Seriously? She had been totally out of touch for months, and when I asked to do just a little bit of scheduling so I could get on the same page with her, she wanted me to wait until three weeks before the wedding![/QUOTE]</span></div><div>
</div><div>[QUOTE]<strong>I am surprised that you think there are no duties as a maid of honor.  Do you really pick a bridal party just to stand next to you and look pretty on the day of?</strong> <strong> I would have no line if that were the case</strong>. The whole tradition and role of a bridal party <strong>is to support and help you prepare for the mega life transition.</strong> I have been involved with other friend's weddings before and would NEVER just show up on the day of and do nothing ahead of time to help.  That's not what best friends are for.  No one should drop everything, but if they can't even be bothered to communicate with you, then that's a problem.<strong> I feel really bad for anyone who doesn't even have close enough friends to help them out on their wedding. </strong>And 
Posted by briawna[/QUOTE]</div>
<div>You basically, told her to drop her homework to go make your invites. Then when she wants to leave you tell her to stay so you can do more wedding stuff. Then the general "responsibilities", the only thing she has to do is get her dress and show up. Then you tell her that the other girls can due her "responsibilities" (nothing like a public slap in the face). Well, as you can see in your second quote that you expect people to do stuff for you and that if they didn't then you wouldn't have anyone stand next you. Plus there are many brides around that have friends and family all over the country who are their MOH/BM and are not helping that Bride with wedding stuff. </div><div>
</div><div>Your clouded judgement of what people are suppose to do for you for your wedding is what the true problem here, if you can realize that maybe you were wrong and just expect one thing of your friend showing up in her dress, happy, and having fun then maybe the stress you put onto yourself will let up and you can enjoy your wedding things. </div><div>
</div><div>Well, its not surprising she's hurt about not being invited to do other things, you are excluding her after she didn't act all happy about the first time you dragged/guilt tripped her into doing your invites. Maybe she actually wasn't interested in stuffing invites, but maybe she might like creating centerpieces or something. Now if you called/email/text and told her "hey, BM1 and BM2 are helping me do X project, if you liked to come your more than welcome if your not busy with anything" and she doesn't respond then acts all "omg, u didnt invite me to that u jerk" then I would I would say "sorry, when i didnt hear from u i figured u had other plans". </div><div>
</div><div>Also changing your original post (which has been quoted) makes it look like your trying to change your story which makes me less trustful in your statements (im sure you probably dont care but just stating the facts). </div><div>
</div><div>So yeah, if you truly have had a change of heart then good, nice to see you can realize how "wedding crazy" can get the best of any person and hope that your new realization will help patch up your friendship and make your wedding planning less stressful. 
</div>

PeonyPrincesskdd

Your being a terrible friend if you get annoyed that your friend is coming to you with some personal problems or whatever is going on in her life.  You need to be a real friend and be supportive and helpful and be there for her in what ever life event she is going through.

All her problems/life events/ can not go on hold just because you are getting married.  The world does not revolve around you and you can't act like an uncaring person towards your friend just because your a bride.

You need to talk to her and be a friend to her and not act like a whiny little drama queen.  This is by far, not a disaster.  You need to be a better friend and the only disaster is the way you are treating your friend.

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:4a3c153d-a385-4e8b-ba74-b3a87677de85">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I am surprised that you think there are no duties as a maid of honor.  Do you really pick a bridal party just to stand next to you and look pretty on the day of?  I would have no line if that were the case. The whole tradition and role of a bridal party is to support and help you prepare for the mega life transition. I have been involved with other friend's weddings before and would NEVER just show up on the day of and do nothing ahead of time to help.  That's not what best friends are for.  No one should drop everything, but if they can't even be bothered to communicate with you, then that's a problem. I feel really bad for anyone who doesn't even have close enough friends to help them out on their wedding. And vsgal, you make some strange assuptioms, like that I have dreamed of a wedding since age three (not true) or that I have damaged any relationships (I'm coming here to vent, not actually picking fights in real life.)  Also, input or advice given in the tone you use is really counter productive.  I will take your advice and try to relax, but it's really hard to see any of the value in your response when it's so bitchy.  Why post just to hate on someone's guts?  My FMIL never had to throw me a shower in the first place (I certainly didn't expect her to) but there is something about having your FI's mother show a complete lack of acceptance for your entire lifestyle and to consider you an embarassment.  If that wouldn't hurt your feelings you're either the buddha (obviously not the case by your use of language and tone) or you're just a detached, cold hardass.
Posted by briawna[/QUOTE]

This is where you are wrong.  You don't need support to plan a party.  You need support when you lose a loved one or maybe if you lost a job, but not support for throwing a party.

Also, your bridesmaids do not have to help you do anything.  It is YOUR wedding, so you can do it yourself with your FI.  There is no asking them to come over and stuff envelopes for invitations.  You can budget your own time and do it yourself.

Traditions have gone out the window.  A wedding is not a MEGA LIFE transition.  We have had this discussion before that especially if you lived with your FI prior to the wedding, there are really no changes or anything majorly new.  A baby is a major life transition because you are bringing a new life into the world to take care of. 

A wedding is not something so dramatic like you make it out to be. 

Forget about assigning duties and making other people do your dirty work for you.  You don't need to boss everyone around and tell them what they need to do for you

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:74d31a1f-b0bd-4dab-b35a-669237d70fc3">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Disaster! Help! : You're right that the bride doesn't get to choose the MOG's dress . . .  If she's not in the wedding party.  In our case, our original thought was to have everyone wear whatever they want.  But his mother wanted to be part of the wedding party.  She wants to be part of the procession and be escorted in.  She wants to have a role in the ceremony.  At that point, I told her everyone else in the wedding party was wearing grey.  If she didn't like grey, I gave her blue and green swatches that would also match.  She then bought a dress in the same color as the bride.  That is a BIG faux paus in any book.  It's actually a little insulting to the bride, and suggests that she wants to be the center of attention. But, as a previous poster stated, she will look dumb, not me.  Also, I never instructed her to buy a new dress, but was just frustrated that she would make the choice she did.  So, maybe you should read closer before attacking someone. I now want to address a theme I keep seeing in different people's responses, and that is the idea that the WP just stands there and looks pretty for the whole day.  That any frustrations I could have with WP are merely about getting ribbons tied on the right way.  Your pedantic list of "DONTs" (And, yes, it was pedantic)  are not really the issue here.  I know it was a long original post, but if you don't take the time to read it, don't respond to adamently. In my conversation with MOH I told her the most important thing to me was that we stay in touch.  If you notice, the first thing I alluded to was being sad that after years of being super close she has just fallen off the map. I have actually asked very little of her.  Here's what I've asked of her for far: All the bridesmaids came to dinner (which I made for them) so that they could meet each other to make things like the Bachelorette party less awkward. All the bridesmaids came to the dress shop so they could choose a dress they liked (which I then paid for) All the bridesmaids have been expected to respond to emails regarding rehearsal and hair appointments (FI and I are paying for all the girls to have hair professionally done that morning.) Until the invitation stuffing party, that is all they have been asked to do.  Not so bad, even by all the nasty poster's standards. And the invitation stuffing was OPTIONAL.  Two girls didn't show up because they told me ahead of time they couldn't or didn't want to.  I was fine with that. The issue I have and continue to have is that after offering to help she showed up with a bad attitude, was rude to another bridesmaid, and flat out told me she didn't have time for me.  For someone whom you used to talk to almost every day, this was a bit shocking and upsetting. To everyone who thinks this is all about party planning, it's not.  A wedding is not just a big party, and I don't know why people think that is the case.  It's a very happy time, but it's also a big adjustment.  Merging two families, two households, two lives is a big step and it constitutes a real change of identity.  I think it's important to have support in that process.  There are a lot of little stressors to deal with, and those stressors help determine how you and your FI will live your life together. I do expect my BMs to be a part of my emotional support center.  It's been sometimes painful (in that bittersweet way) to move all my last stuff out of my mom's house (she's kept a bedroom for me all these years) and to withdraw from single life.  It's not a bad thing, but it is an emotional reality. WP should be the people you consider your "forged family," and mine are.  Having one pull away and not communicate or be concerned with how my life is going is hard. I want to be there for her, but it has to be a two way street.  That's what I've been expressing.
Posted by briawna[/QUOTE]

You seem to be contradiciting yourself.  You just said here that the invitation stuffing was optional and 2 other girls declined and didn't want to come and that you were fine with that but in your post you say
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;"><strong><font size="3">
" I arranged for a bridesmaid's party to assemble our invitations and she sent me a text message two minutes after she was supposed to be there saying that she really needed to finish some homework.  I called and told her it was really important to me to have her help and she showed up an hour and half later, was grumpy the entire time, and insulted one of my other bridesmaids to her face.  As soon as we were done she tried to run out the door.  I asked her if she could stay for just 5 minutes and go over some scheduling details to which she rolled her eyes and said, "Can't it wait till after August 7th?"  (This was earlier in the summer, my wedding is August 29!!) I was floored

</font></strong></span></p>I can see see why she was grumpy the whole time.  You basically made her feel guilty that she had hw to do and was too busy for you so instead of saying "Okay I understand.  See you another day", you make her feel bad saying that you really want her there to help.  You really need to stop contradicting yourself. 

deepcovejackie

Pre-wedding anything is optional.  Not just stuffing invitations.  I'd really listen to what folks are telling you about how you're being perceived.  Go back and read the bolded parts of your statements objectively. 

MrsMack10612

Until now I have been a lurker, and I know that I am new here.  I am not trying to start trouble or act as an interloper; but I have seen some of the regular posters berate brides because of their expections of their MOH and other BMs.  The concept of duties for the MOH & BMs is not new and is not solely generated by the wedding industry.

Below is verbatum from Emily Post's 16th Edition Etiquette book, copyright 1997:

"MAID AND/OR MATRON OF HONOR

     The maid or matron of honor's most important duy is to act as a consultant and assistant to the bride.  She should take as many duties and as much responsibility off the shoulders of the bride as possible -- especially on the wedding day.  She walks just in front of the bride in the procession (unless there are flower girls and ring bearers), she holds the bride's flowers during the ceremony, and she also hands the groom's ring to the bride if it is a double-ring ceremony.  She helps the bride adjust her train and veil when she turns to the leave the church.  If there happens to be a maid and matron of honor, the maid takes precedence and is in charge of the flowers and ring at the altar.
     The maid of honor signs the wedding register as the bride's witness.
     The maid of honor stands on the groom's left in the receiving line and sits on his left at the bridal table.  She may or may not make a toast to the couple.  She helps the bride change into her going-away clothe and helps the bride's mother put her wedding dress away.  Although it is not obligatory she usually arranges to give a shower for the bride, with or without the help of the bridesmaids.
     She is also in charge of choosing the gift that will be given to the bride from all the bridesmaids together, and collecting the money to pay for it."

The first 2 sentences of her information on Bridesmaids is:

"Bridesmaids have few specific duties other than forming the procession, and if the bride wishes, standing in the receiving line.  The also act as deputy hostesses at the reception."

So you all may be correct that bridal showers are not obligatory (as would any other pre-wedding event) and that the BMs are pretty much only required to "show up", you are not wholly correct re: the MOH.  I will not say you are wrong, per se but I think that if Emily Post is confident that MOHs have more responsibility than just "showing up", perhaps you should lay off some of these brides.

Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, but I feel for some of these brides who come here to vent and look for advice and get read the riot act over it.

Additionally - in some of the posts I've read, perhaps the MOHs and/or BMs have committed certain duties, to which the brides are not getting the communication they require. 

I have no expecation of any of my attendants to do more than show up - my MOH, on the otherhand, is actually stressing about what her duties are.

And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Sorry for the "wall of text".

AutumnFair

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:5ef97414-dbd4-435b-b32f-e9325a5bb64b">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]Until now I have been a lurker, and I know that I am new here.  I am not trying to start trouble or act as an interloper; but I have seen some of the regular posters berate brides because of their expections of their MOH and other BMs.  The concept of duties for the MOH & BMs is not new and is not solely generated by the wedding industry. Below is verbatum from Emily Post's 16th Edition Etiquette book, copyright 1997: "MAID AND/OR MATRON OF HONOR      The maid or matron of honor's most important duy is to act as a consultant and assistant to the bride.  She should take as many duties and as much responsibility off the shoulders of the bride as possible -- especially on the wedding day.  She walks just in front of the bride in the procession (unless there are flower girls and ring bearers), she holds the bride's flowers during the ceremony, and she also hands the groom's ring to the bride if it is a double-ring ceremony.  She helps the bride adjust her train and veil when she turns to the leave the church.  If there happens to be a maid and  matron of honor, the maid takes precedence and is in charge of the flowers and ring at the altar.      The maid of honor signs the wedding register as the bride's witness.      The maid of honor stands on the groom's left in the receiving line and sits on his left at the bridal table.  She may or may not make a toast to the couple.  She helps the bride change into her going-away clothe and helps the bride's mother put her wedding dress away.  Although it is not obligatory she usually arranges to give a shower for the bride, with or without the help of the bridesmaids.      She is also in charge of choosing the gift that will be given to the bride from all the bridesmaids together, and collecting the money to pay for it." The first 2 sentences of her information on Bridesmaids is: "Bridesmaids have few specific duties other than forming the procession, and if the bride wishes, standing in the receiving line.  The also act as deputy hostesses at the reception." So you all may be correct that bridal showers are not obligatory (as would any other pre-wedding event) and that the BMs are pretty much only required to "show up", you are not wholly correct re: the MOH.  I will not say you are wrong, per se but I think that if Emily Post is confident that MOHs have more responsibility than just "showing up", perhaps you should lay off some of these brides. <strong>Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, but I feel for some of these brides who come here to vent and look for advice and get read the riot act over it. Additionally - in some of the posts I've read, perhaps the MOHs and/or BMs have committed certain duties, to which the brides are not getting the communication they require.  I have no expecation of any of my attendants to do more than show up - my MOH, on the otherhand, is actually stressing about what her duties are. </strong>And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Sorry for the "wall of text".
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Then why post Emily's bridesmaid "requirements" if you aren't trying to stir some more drama out of this thread? As a lurker you have probably seen Bride's pull her "requirements" into threads before so yeah, not sure why you are bringing it up again. You do know that a book is apart of the wedding industry don't you?</div><div>
</div><div> Personally, I have been in many Weddings and I do like to help my friends but I have had friends with some "wedding crazy" going on and let me say that I had to be the bigger person in the situation. Sometimes I might get too busy with something that I commit to and have cancelled something last minute. I'm not saying that every Bride that comes on here is wrong but when someone comes on to vent about a bridesmaid that I personally think hasn't done as much wrong as the Bride herself then I bring to light what the Bride is doing wrong. It's up to the Bride to take what we say and apply it.
</div><div>
</div><div>It's good to see you know not to expect things, I'm sure you she will probably put great effort in doing extra special things for you so yeah, its always better to be surprise by people's willingness to do stuff then being disappointed in what they are not doing. </div>

MrsMack10612

The intention was not to stir more drama out of the thread, I was just covering all the bases; and provide different perspectives.

And I don't conisder the Emily Post Etiquette book, which is a ginormous volume that covers just about every social situation under the sun, part of the wedding industry.  If it was strictly a wedding etiquette book, I would be inclined to agree.  Additionally, as the book was printed so many years ago, I find it somewhat more reliable than anything more current, as the entitlement mentality seems more recent (at least for anyone less than a royal or Rockefeller).  I completely agree that the wedding industry and a sense of entitlement from brides has gotten way out of hand.

But don't get me wrong, in reading threads there are absolutely brides that are way out of line. 

I hope that my MOH and BMs are willing or able to help as much as they can, but if they don't I'm not worried.  After doing as much lurking as I have around here - I am now very conscious of the pitfalls of becoming a bridezilla and pray I don't get an attack of the wedding crazies.

sarah42nd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:5ef97414-dbd4-435b-b32f-e9325a5bb64b">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]Until now I have been a lurker, and I know that I am new here.  I am not trying to start trouble or act as an interloper; but I have seen some of the regular posters berate brides because of their expections of their MOH and other BMs.  The concept of duties for the MOH & BMs is not new and is not solely generated by the wedding industry. Below is verbatum from Emily Post's 16th Edition Etiquette book, copyright 1997: "MAID AND/OR MATRON OF HONOR     <strong> The maid or matron of honor's most important duty is to act as a consultant and assistant to the bride.  She should take as many duties and as <em>much responsibility off the shoulders</em> of the bride as <em>possible</em> -- especially on the wedding day</strong>.  She walks just in front of the bride in the procession (unless there are flower girls and ring bearers), she holds the bride's flowers during the ceremony, and she also hands the groom's ring to the bride if it is a double-ring ceremony.  She helps the bride adjust her train and veil when she turns to the leave the church.  If there happens to be a maid and  matron of honor, the maid takes precedence and is in charge of the flowers and ring at the altar.      The maid of honor signs the wedding register as the bride's witness.      The maid of honor stands on the groom's left in the receiving line and sits on his left at the bridal table.  She may or may not make a toast to the couple.  She helps the bride change into her going-away clothe and helps the bride's mother put her wedding dress away.  Although it is not obligatory she usually arranges to give a shower for the bride, with or without the help of the bridesmaids.      She is also in charge of choosing the gift that will be given to the bride from all the bridesmaids together, and collecting the money to pay for it." The first 2 sentences of her information on Bridesmaids is: "Bridesmaids have few specific duties other than forming the procession, and if the bride wishes, standing in the receiving line.  The also act as deputy hostesses at the reception." So you all may be correct that bridal showers are not obligatory (as would any other pre-wedding event) and that the BMs are pretty much only required to "show up", you are not wholly correct re: the MOH.  I will not say you are wrong, per se but I think that if Emily Post is confident that MOHs have more responsibility than just "showing up", perhaps you should lay off some of these brides. Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, but I feel for some of these brides who come here to vent and look for advice and get read the riot act over it. Additionally - in some of the posts I've read, perhaps the MOHs and/or BMs have committed certain duties, to which the brides are not getting the communication they require.  I have no expecation of any of my attendants to do more than show up - my MOH, on the otherhand, is actually stressing about what her duties are. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Sorry for the "wall of text".<strong>


So if it is not possible for the MOH to take the responsibility off the brides sholders they don't have too. Not to mention like PP said theres alot of emily post editions out there  .</strong>

sarah42nd

Also I think alot of these issue are because the brides has one expectation and the MOHs or BMs have another. Just because a BMs has been a BM in another wedding doesn't mean she had to do everything you want her to do in the other wedding . Also I know alot of girls who have never been in a wedding or been to one and are blown away when they become BMs and didn't know what they were getting in too.  So if brides asks there friend they should tell them what they think the job entitles and then let the BMs decide if they want to do it.

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:94f5fcc7-5a06-46a5-b703-40712b160203">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]The intention was not to stir more drama out of the thread, I was just covering all the bases; and provide different perspectives. And I don't conisder the Emily Post Etiquette book, which is a ginormous volume that covers just about every social situation under the sun, part of the wedding industry.  If it was strictly a wedding etiquette book, I would be inclined to agree.  Additionally, as the book was printed so many years ago, I find it somewhat more reliable than anything more current, as the entitlement mentality seems more recent (at least for anyone less than a royal or Rockefeller).  I completely agree that the wedding industry and a sense of entitlement from brides has gotten way out of hand. But don't get me wrong, in reading threads there are absolutely brides that are way out of line.  I hope that my MOH and BMs are willing or able to help as much as they can, but if they don't I'm not worried.  After doing as much lurking as I have around here - I am now very conscious of the pitfalls of becoming a bridezilla and pray I don't get an attack of the wedding crazies.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

Is it possible the book was only re-printed in 1997?.. it's probably an older and outdated book though.  It's notions are outdated. 

Why is it that bridesmaids should have all these jobs with planning the wedding and groomsmen should not? 

What I am saying is that you said the book said it was not a requirement and it was optional for bm's... but it seems groomsmen are not even given the same optional duties to perform other than the bachelor party which is why the notion of bridesmaids performing numerous duties and high expectations are outdated because it's sort of sexist.. but that's a whole other topic

PeonyPrincesskdd

I really think whoever made up all those BM and MOH duties was probably some bride who thought it would be a great idea to get more work out of their bridal party so she can sit back and do nothing.

The groomsmen have it easy and all they have to do is show up in their attire and stand up with the groom.  All the other jobs are really the jobs for the bride and groom and whoever else willingly volunteers or asks to participate.
 
Bride can not demand or require or force her bridal party.  Usually a close friend, cousin or sister might say, "Hey, How's wedding planning going?.. if you need any help with anything, let me know".  And bride should be gracious for that. 

Bride should not shun other bridesmaids because of their lack of helping.  And this is what everyone is talking about. 

If a bm has life events or school/work/family something going on that interferes with time/effort/money, then the bride needs to look at her BM as a friend and be understanding and accepting of her and understand that she will just stand up there with her at the alter just like all the groomsmen do. 

It's as easy as that.  None of this, "Oh she is TOO BUSY with her kids and won't go dress shopping with me" or "Her kid is sick and my BM missed my shower!"  Really, what is the big deal is all we are saying.  It's not the end of the world and also not a "Disaster" that calls for drastic "Help!"

Also, no need to kick bm out of wedding party for such petty reasons

deepcovejackie

Put down the books.  Ease up on the expectations.  Treat your nearest and dearest as just that, not as props or folks that owe you something just because you have a ring on your finger.

MrsMack10612

First off - I have no expectations.  What everyone seems to be missing is that I was simply giving a different point of view.

I really don't want to be a trouble maker and I'm giong to ask what I know will be an explosive question - but how did all of you regular posters become such experts on weddings? 

Even if as PeonyPrincess pointed out, that the Emily Post Etiquette is outdated and was a re-print of older social norms, so at some time in the past this was acceptable thinking.  Who are you to say it is no longer acceptable?  I'd also really like to know when etiquette became outdated?  Just because it doesn't necessarily fit with society today does not make incorrect.  We could all stand to study our Emily Post a little more....

I'm not saying the book is gospel or that I would necessarily abide by it, I was just pointing out that a well-respected and trusted etiquette authority has said that MOHs do have some duties.  And I will put out that it says whatever is possible.  If the MOH (or BMs) can only "show up with the dress on" so be it.

I also agree that no bride should EXPECT anything from anyone in re: to the planning of and preparation for a wedding.  I also believe that brides should sit down with their attendants and discuss what expectations are on both sides - and the bride should have one - show up and where the dress.

I didn't get into groom/groomsmen duties as the concerns here were for MOH & BM.

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:5ef97414-dbd4-435b-b32f-e9325a5bb64b">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]Until now I have been a lurker, and I know that I am new here.  I am not trying to start trouble or act as an interloper; but I have seen some of the regular posters berate brides because of their expections of their MOH and other BMs.  The concept of duties for the MOH & BMs is not new and is not solely generated by the wedding industry. Below is verbatum from Emily Post's 16th Edition Etiquette book, copyright 1997: "MAID AND/OR MATRON OF HONOR      The maid or matron of honor's most important duy is to act as a consultant and assistant to the bride.  She should take as many duties and as much responsibility off the shoulders of the bride as possible -- especially on the wedding day.  She walks just in front of the bride in the procession (unless there are flower girls and ring bearers), she holds the bride's flowers during the ceremony, and she also hands the groom's ring to the bride if it is a double-ring ceremony.  She helps the bride adjust her train and veil when she turns to the leave the church.  If there happens to be a maid and  matron of honor, the maid takes precedence and is in charge of the flowers and ring at the altar.      The maid of honor signs the wedding register as the bride's witness.      <strong>The maid of honor stands on the groom's left in the receiving line and sits on his left at the bridal table.</strong>  She may or may not make a toast to the couple.  She helps the bride change into her going-away clothe and helps the bride's mother put her wedding dress away.  Although it is not obligatory she usually arranges to give a shower for the bride, with or without the help of the bridesmaids.      She is also in charge of choosing the gift that will be given to the bride from all the bridesmaids together, and collecting the money to pay for it." The first 2 sentences of her information on Bridesmaids is: "Bridesmaids have few specific duties other than forming the procession, and if the bride wishes, standing in the receiving line.  The also act as deputy hostesses at the reception." So you all may be correct that bridal showers are not obligatory (as would any other pre-wedding event) and that the BMs are pretty much only required to "show up", you are not wholly correct re: the MOH.  I will not say you are wrong, per se but I think that if Emily Post is confident that MOHs have more responsibility than just "showing up", perhaps you should lay off some of these brides. Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, but I feel for some of these brides who come here to vent and look for advice and get read the riot act over it. Additionally - in some of the posts I've read, perhaps the MOHs and/or BMs have committed certain duties, to which the brides are not getting the communication they require.  I have no expecation of any of my attendants to do more than show up - my MOH, on the otherhand, is actually stressing about what her duties are. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Sorry for the "wall of text".
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

Yeah this must be outdated because weddings in the past most likely always had receiving lines and today they don't and weddings in the past they mostly had bridal party tables and table they don't.  This notions in this book are obviously from the past.

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:34e23c1f-bef7-4037-8ebe-857385afad90">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]First off - I have no expectations.  What everyone seems to be missing is that I was simply giving a different point of view. I really don't want to be a trouble maker and I'm giong to ask what I know will be an explosive question - but how did all of you regular posters become such experts on weddings?  Even if as PeonyPrincess pointed out, that the Emily Post Etiquette is outdated and was a re-print of older social norms<strong>, so at some time in the past this was acceptable thinking.  Who are you to say it is no longer acceptable?</strong>  I'd also really like to know when etiquette became outdated?  Just because it doesn't necessarily fit with society today does not make incorrect.  We could all stand to study our Emily Post a little more.... I'm not saying the book is gospel or that I would necessarily abide by it, I was just pointing out that a well-respected and trusted etiquette authority has said that MOHs do have some duties.  And I will put out that it says whatever is possible.  If the MOH (or BMs) can only "show up with the dress on" so be it. I also agree that no bride should EXPECT anything from anyone in re: to the planning of and preparation for a wedding.  I also believe that brides should sit down with their attendants and discuss what expectations are on both sides - and the bride should have one - show up and where the dress. I didn't get into groom/groomsmen duties as the concerns here were for MOH & BM.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

Anyone who got married in the 1980's can tell you why certain wedding tradtitions are no longer used or acceptable.   With weddings, customs and traditions were made.  After decades of using certa

in customs, the wedding world has changed.  Nobody does wedding party dances anymore, we are getting away from the combined bride and groom and bridal party only table and I think at this point we can say no one does the bridal party table anymore...

Can you believe back in the day they would have a table for the bridal party only and the spouses and significant others of the bridal party member would have to sit at a different table? It's true.  I can't wait for someone who got married at that time to tell me what that was all like.  It was awkard and silly and that is why it is no longer a tradition.

Also, we are seeing less of the garter toss and garter removal.. Wedding traditions are going out the window.  I am sure those who got married in the 1980's can you the many traditions that they are glad do not exist anymore.   

You asked, "Who says it is no longer acceptable?".  Well, 2010 says so.  Weddings have slowly let go of some traditions because they made people in the wedding party feel awkward, over-worked, and basically made them feel like they weren't having any fun. 

Now bridesmaids are no longer forced or required, and now bridal party's get along a lot better and have a lot more fun with each other when they aren't given these duties and assignments. 

They are now treated like a friend and not a slave or doll like some have said.

It's a new day, so get used to it.

MrsMack10612

You know, I joined The Knot because I was excited about getting engaged and thought it would be a helpful place.

However, through reading the boards and now having my own experience posting - it doesn't seem to be the welcoming community I thought it would be.

I've posted reasonable dialogue, I have not name called or insulted anyone (and before anybody gets all defensive - asking how you became wedding experts is not an unreasonable question unless you are all professional wedding planners).  I thought I was simply having, for lack of a better way to put it, an online debate; just as I would with friends, family or coworkers in person.

However, after clearly stating I have no expectations of my attendants, I am told "Put down the books.  Ease up on the expectations.  Treat your nearest and dearest as just that, not as props or folks that owe you something just because you have a ring on your finger."

Then as I debate who has the authority, again after stating that Emily Post is not necessarily gospel, to say what is or is not acceptable or correct anymore, I am told to "it's a new day, get used it".

It comes across as a very hostile environment where God forbid, anybody has a different perspective or doesn't agree with the party line from the "experts" on this site.

I guess from now on I'll stick to the planning tools and stay away from the boards. 

deepcovejackie

I'm not professing to be an expert on weddings.  In fact, we're really not talking about weddings.  We're talking about friendships and personal relationships and people's feelings.  Not about what you read in wedding books, etiquette books and bridal magazines.  I was not being hostile, and I stand by my statement.

MrsMack10612

I have been at and in weddings before and since 1997 and all of them were different.  Some included wedding party tables, some didn't, some had receiving lines, some didn't.  I can tell you from experience there was no awkwardness amongst the guests or wedding party in either case.

Social norms may have changed since 1997 but proper etiquette has not.  Just
because "everyone does it this way" doesn't mean it's right.  By that logic,
the dictionary should change the word "ask" to "ax" and "there" = "they're" =
"their", regardless of context.

Perhaps locating a current edition of Ms. Post's etiquette might be the solution as I will still take her word over anyone else's about what is or is not appropriate, acceptable or correct.

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:0557bbda-b657-4b36-a999-3892b2209377">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]You know,

<strong>I joined The Knot because I was excited about getting engaged and thought it would be a helpful place.</strong>

We were being helpful.  We gave you our opinions on the role of a bridal party.  You just didn't like our answers.  We didn't think you were helpful with your Emily Post diagloge but we didn't say so.  We just said that is was outdated and old.

<strong>It doesn't seem to be the welcoming community I thought it would be.
I have not name called or insulted anyone</strong> ..

If I read correctly, I don't recall anyone name calling or insulting you.  You are being too senstive and taking it too personal.  When people said, "Put down the books.. Lower your expectations.. It's a new day etc, they were just telling it like it is.  What did you want us to say?  You were just mad that nobody agreed with you.

<strong>Who has the authority, again after stating that Emily Post is not necessarily gospel, to say what is or is not acceptable or correct anymore</strong>

Nobody really has the authority.  But many of us on these boards responding have been married and been in bridal parties many times and just know a lot by observing the weddings we've been in today and what we have seen done and not done etc. 

We have seen a lot of brides requesting and ordering and demanding their bridesmaids to do things, and if their bridesmaids fail to do so for whatever reason (life event/work/school) the bride kicks them out of the bridal party just like that. 

Therefore, we we think in order to not become a bridezilla, that brides should lower their expectations and stop relying so much on their bridesmaids.

 They are causing themselves to lose valuable friendships that were important to them before the wedding..
 
and now just because they are getting married they can treat their friend like that, and drop them from the wedding party just like that, and most likely losing their freind forever because of it.
<strong> 
I am told to "it's a new day, get used it".  It comes across as a very hostile environment where God forbid, anybody has a different perspective or doesn't agree with the party line from the "experts" on this site. I guess from now on I'll stick to the planning tools and stay away from the boards. 
</strong>
Nobody was hostile towards you.  They simply wanted to state their own opinions.  They be a little blunt about it, but they are only getting their point across.  No one was rude to you.  They only didn't agree with your post about "Emily Post".  I think you got all offended because nobody took your side or agreed with you about your Emily Post Book and the Ettiquette on MOH and BM. 

If you post that, we are going to give honest opinions and not just pretend to agree with whatever you say.
 As far as you not posting here anymore, maybe it's for the better.  You need thicker skin if you think we are all mean and hostile.  No one was mean or rude to you that I recall.  They just didn't agree with you.  If you can't handle these boards try weddingbee.com or weddingwire.com where I am sure everyone will agree anythiningggg you say

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:5b4a1945-a51d-4c3b-979f-367c41d2154e">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I have been at and in weddings before and since 1997 and all of them were different.  <strong>Some included wedding party tables, some didn't, some had receiving lines, some didn't.  I can tell you from experience there was no awkwardness amongst the guests or wedding party in either case. </strong>Social norms may have changed since 1997 but proper etiquette has not.  Just because "everyone does it this way" doesn't mean it's right.  By that logic, the dictionary should change the word "ask" to "ax" and "there" = "they're" = "their", regardless of context. Perhaps locating a current edition of Ms. Post's etiquette might be the solution as I will still take her word over anyone else's about what is or is not appropriate, acceptable or correct.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

<strong>Are you serious.  I have not met one person on this board that thought receiving lines were convenient and acceptable.  Don't quote me on that, but ask around.  I am sure they will tell you they are out dated.  If I am wrong on that one I am sure that everyone will tell you the wedding party table is taboo.  It is wrong to have the bridal party sitting at one table and their spouses are at a totally different table.  That is just crazy.</strong>

MrsMack10612

It has nothing to do with thick or thin skin.  It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me. 

It has to do with the the fact that I offered an alternate opinion that was against everyone else, so therefore it is discounted.  Debate and discussion is about offering differing opinions and perspectives.  Apparently these boards are not open to that.

There is a big difference between blunt and rude.  I can handle blunt, but not rude.  Being told to "get over it" is rude and hostile.

I have read other threads where someone disagreed with the regular posters and felt they were being to harsh, and the dissenter also got a less than warm welcome.

PeonyPrincesskdd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_disaster?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:4a504e4d-0cad-4382-92b6-7a566d46e5faPost:5b4a1945-a51d-4c3b-979f-367c41d2154e">Re: Disaster! Help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I have been at and in weddings before and since 1997 and all of them were different.  Some included wedding party tables, some didn't, some had receiving lines, some didn't.  I can tell you from experience there was no awkwardness amongst the guests or wedding party in either case.<strong> Social norms may have changed since 1997 but proper etiquette has not.  </strong>Just because "everyone does it this way" doesn't mean it's right.  By that logic, the dictionary should change the word "ask" to "ax" and "there" = "they're" = "their", regardless of context. Perhaps locating a current edition of Ms. Post's etiquette might be the solution as I will still take her word over anyone else's about what is or is not appropriate, acceptable or correct.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

OMG somebody get it through her head that bridal party requirements and duties are not proper ettiquette.  I really can't believe what I am hearing. 

MrsMack10612

PeonyPrincess - I never said either was convenient and I have no opinion on whether it is acceptable or unacceptable.  My Emily Post references were just that - points of reference.

Far as I'm concerned a bride & groom can do whatever suits their fancy at their wedding.  If a friend has me in their wedding and I need to stand at a receiving line (which I have) - so be it.  I'll smile, shake hands and kiss cheeks because it'what the the couple wants.  If I have to eat my meal away from my spouse because the couple wants a bridal table (which I have), that's what I'll do.

It's not for me to judge if what someone wants their wedding ceremony, reception to include or not.  Well, except maybe those folks that I read in a thread that wanted to charge their guests $50 pp for their meal.  THAT is unacceptable.

Having traditional (which may be considered outdated) expectations of your wedding and attendents does NOT make them unacceptable.

MrsMack10612

Apparently at one point in time they were, so I have nothing to "get through my head".

As I stated in my last post traditional does not equal unacceptable.