Interesting bit of family news

PMeg819

My cousin announced this past week that he's transitioning to a woman. My aunt is a mess about it but is trying to be supportive. My parents are kind of WTF about it but again, basically said that regardless of who he is, they love him. I'm proud of him for saying this is what he wants.

The take away in all of this is that I really approve of his new name. He's going to become Lillian. I like it.

**O-Face**

Lillian is a fantastic name.

And honestly, are YOU shocked?  I can't imagine someone would be shocked if they knew their relative fairly well and they announced a decision to transition.

GBCK

It is a good name.

I"m glad people aren't being croches about it.

thejucheidea

My best friend is transitioning from female to male. He's nearly a year into using T and hopes to have top surgery next year. It's awesome when you have someone you love who is hurting so badly then he figures out what's the root of his problem is. He's never been happier, and I love it .

ETA: And he's keeping the same name because it's a unisex name, aw yiss.

PMeg819

I'm not shocked. I don't want to say I don't care- because it's not that I don't care, it just doesn't register with me. He is who he is and if this is him/her, then so be it. I'd rather him transition into a woman publicly, then suffer in silence and possibly commit suicide over fear of what other's think.

*Barbie*

good luck to Lillian.

**O-Face**

I think that is possibly the best response ever, Pmeg.

FLANYTATOOGURL

It is nice that your family is supporting his decision. An old coworker of mine did this a few years back, all of his family and most if his male friends "disowned" him. Shockingly even his other gay friends did not approve. He will need a lot of love and support, it is a hard road to walk and it is wonderful that your family are going to be there for him.

thejucheidea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_interesting-bit-of-family-news?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:a7fee538-edfe-4e7f-bf88-b5fc24c90620Post:efee4363-27f5-466b-bc04-e68ec44a6066">Re:Interesting bit of family news</a>:
[QUOTE]Shockingly even his other gay friends did not approve.
Posted by FLANYTATOOGURL[/QUOTE]

Actually, trans v. gay is a huge issue, so this doesn't surprise me at all. Trans people are big outcasts in the LGBT community.

TKzilla

So I'm going to ask this here, because I think someone might know.

At what point during the transition does the person go from male to female (or vice versa)? Is it when the decision is made? Or when the surgery is done?

I've never understood this and I don't want to take to the internets abroad.

6fsn

That would be interesting news. 

Agreed with ahstillwell.  Gay =/=tg and it doesn't make you automatically accepting of other people.

Courtania- I'd say it's whenever the person decides they are the other gender which could be at any time.  Not everyone will go through the surgery.

FLANYTATOOGURL

In Response to Re:Interesting bit of family news:[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Interesting bit of family news:Shockingly even his other gay friends did not approve. Posted by FLANYTATOOGURLActually, trans v. gay is a huge issue, so this doesn't surprise me at all. Trans people are big outcasts in the LGBT community. Posted by ahstillwell[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that has always bothered me! I love how people looking for civil equality shun people that are different.

ReturnOfKuus

The T in GLBT is a bit of an outlier - the rest are about sexual orientation, whereas the T has nothing to do with that and is all about the difference between gender and sex.  It's a weird grouping.

I do adore the name Lillian.

thejucheidea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_interesting-bit-of-family-news?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:a7fee538-edfe-4e7f-bf88-b5fc24c90620Post:78c29a5f-ac97-475c-abde-b945745e1e44">Re: Interesting bit of family news</a>:
[QUOTE]So I'm going to ask this here, because I think someone might know. At what point during the transition does the person go from male to female (or vice versa)? Is it when the decision is made? Or when the surgery is done? I've never understood this and I don't want to take to the internets abroad.
Posted by CourtaniaLynn[/QUOTE]

We started using male pronouns as soon as he started administering T, but it's different for every person. Some people either choose not to or cannot afford to go through hormone treatments, but if they ask to be called by a certain gendered pronoun, then people should respect that. Many people also cannot afford surgery. My friend is having a hard time coming up for the money for top surgery only -- it's $5000. Bottom surgery is significantly more expensive.

ETA: It's also a state to state thing if you're talking legal gender. My friend has a male Washington state ID, but in his home state of South Carolina, he'll forever be branded female because they do not allow people to change the gender on their birth certificates. I don't know how it's going to work out when he needs to get a passport, as the government requires the birth certificate. He should be getting a passport here in a couple of years, so I guess we'll know then.

ReturnOfKuus

I do agree that as soon as someone lets you know that he/she is transgendered rather than the assumed cisgendered, the pronoun used should refer to that person's gender, not sex.

thejucheidea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_interesting-bit-of-family-news?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:a7fee538-edfe-4e7f-bf88-b5fc24c90620Post:6a40d2c9-4c92-40bf-8039-6c928ed013c4">Re: Interesting bit of family news</a>:
[QUOTE]I do agree that as soon as someone lets you know that he/she is transgendered rather than the assumed cisgendered, the pronoun used should refer to that person's gender, not sex.
Posted by ReturnOfKuus[/QUOTE]

And I will admit that I twitched pretty hard when the male pronouns were used in the OP.

ReturnOfKuus

Well, you see that people were asking about pronouns.  When you don't know the etiquette of this sort of situation (and let's face it, it's not exactly covered in basic Miss Manners childrearing), it's easy to make a misstep.

FLANYTATOOGURL

In Response to Re:Interesting bit of family news:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting bit of family news:I do agree that as soon as someone lets you know that he/she is transgendered rather than the assumed cisgendered, the pronoun used should refer to that person's gender, not sex.Posted by ReturnOfKuusAnd I will admit that I twitched pretty hard when the male pronouns were used in the OP. Posted by ahstillwell[/QUOTE]
Are you looking to start ab argument?
Not many people have dealt with a situation like this! Nothing IMO was cringe worthy, just because you used a certain word with your friend doesn't necessarily mean that it is the right way.

ReturnOfKuus

Well, no, there IS a right way.  It's just that a lot of people, being inexperienced with this, don't know it.

FLANYTATOOGURL

In Response to Re:Interesting bit of family news:[QUOTE]Well, no, there IS a right way.nbsp; It's just that a lot of people, being inexperienced with this, don't know it. Posted by ReturnOfKuus[/QUOTE]

Regardless of what a person wants to do, they are not a different gender until they actually change their gender. So you are a woman as long as you have a vag. I can ask people to start calling me a frog or a gorilla if I want, but that doesn't make it so. If he has a weiner he is a man, once he actually goes through with "the change" then he becomes a woman.

ReturnOfKuus

Flany, you're showing your ignorance regarding transgendered people, and the issue of gender vs sex.  You're 100% wrong on every last bit of this.

FLANYTATOOGURL

So just because someone with a penis says they are a woman it makes it true?

thejucheidea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_interesting-bit-of-family-news?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:a7fee538-edfe-4e7f-bf88-b5fc24c90620Post:902db6a9-8990-4179-9a47-b348aabe8370">Re:Interesting bit of family news</a>:
[QUOTE]So just because someone with a penis says they are a woman it makes it true?
Posted by FLANYTATOOGURL[/QUOTE]

Yes, it does. If that person identifies as the gender of female, even if she has male anatomy, she is female.

ReturnOfKuus

Once again, you're confusing sex and gender. 

Sex is biology, primarily genetics.  It's based on chromosomes, and frankly, it's not something you ever really see or interact with in others.  It can have sticky situations in some cases, where the anatomy doesn't match the chromosomes, or where there is an odd number of sex chromosomes, but overall it's fairly clear-cut.

Gender, on the other hand, is the social construct that involves the idea of biology, not the biology itself, and how that interacts with the world around you.  Everything you see about a person, everything you interact with, tends to be a factor of gender, not sex.  That includes the pronouns with which you refer to people.  For people who are cisgendered, there appears to be no difference between sex and gender, because the two match up.  For people who are transgendered, though, their identity matches the social construct most commonly associated with the other sex.  They're not "pretending" to be a different sex - they're letting you know what their gender is.

Less common is a third gender that is neither male nor female, but appears to others to be sort of androgynous.  From what I understand, it is slightly more common and accepted in the far east than it is here.

PMeg819

First off, my apologies for using incorrect pronouns. I knew she was transitioning but I wasn't aware of where she was in the process. My understanding is that she was still pretty new to it, and had just choosen her name. I wasn't aware if she wanted to still be referred to as male as not everyone may be aware at this time.

I agree with what's been said above. Physiologically and genetically, my cousin is a male. But she's decided that for whatever reason- she does not identify with that sex. The outside does not match the inside in the most simplistic of terms, and she's chosen to go ahead and live her life from this point on as a woman.

And I agree with everything that's been said above by Kuus in regards to gender and sex. At the end of the day- I don't care. People can live their lives as they wish, whatever gender they feel comfortable as, so long as it makes them happy and doesn't substantially harm others. My cousin will love who she wishes, dress as she wishes, and be the person she wants to be without judgement from me.

FLANYTATOOGURL

In Response to Re:Interesting bit of family news:[QUOTE]Once again, you're confusing sex and gender.nbsp; Sex is biology, primarily genetics.nbsp; It's based on chromosomes, and frankly, it's not something you ever really see or interact with in others.nbsp; It can have sticky situations in some cases, where the anatomy doesn't match the chromosomes, or where there is an odd number of sex chromosomes, but overall it's fairly clearcut.Gender, on the other hand, is the social construct that involves the idea of biology, not the biology itself, and how that interacts with the world around you.nbsp; Everything you see about a person, everything you interact with, tends to be a factor of gender, not sex.nbsp; That includes the pronouns with which you refer to people.nbsp; For people who are cisgendered, there appears to be no difference between sex and gender, because the two match up.nbsp; For people who are transgendered, though, their identity matches the social construct most commonly associated with the other sex.nbsp; They're not "pretending" to be a different sex they're letting you know what their gender is.Less common is a third gender that is neither male nor female, but appears to others to be sort of androgynous.nbsp; From what I understand, it is slightly more common and accepted in the far east than it is here. Posted by ReturnOfKuus[/QUOTE]

Nothing you stated about gender is a fact. You are mentioning a theory and stating it to be true. I am not saying that a person that is born a man is wrong for feeling like they are a woman and shouldn't pursue a "sex change" to make themselves happy. But that person is biologically a man. If he puts on a dress he is a cross dresser, not a woman.

PMeg819

FYI- lots of things are theories. Gravity is a theory. But guess what- we hold some of those theories to be true.

ReturnOfKuus

It's not a theory.  It's what the word means.  It's not simply a theory that there are people whose SEX does not match their GENDER - they exist.  They're right there, as proof, telling you that they are biologically male, but their gender is female (or vice verse).  They're not concepts, or ideas.  They're people, present, who are transgendered rather than cisgendered.

Insisting that sex and gender are the same thing despite absolute proof to the contrary just makes you kind of stupid and rednecky.

FLANYTATOOGURL

So if I change my name to Mohammed, does that mean I can say I am from Pakistan? Sure I was born a Caucasian woman from America, but I feel like I should be from the middle east.

FLANYTATOOGURL

What proof? Since when are feelings proof or fact? What about the people that change from man to woman, then after a year or so change back? That happens more than you would think. What are they? Man and Woman?

ReturnOfKuus

You're looking increasingly stupid.

PMeg's cousin, for example, isn't saying that her sex is female.  She isn't pretending this at all.  She knows, and acknowledges, that she is XY.  That is her sex. 

What she is saying is that her GENDER is female.  Get it?  Sex male, gender female.  There's no pretense or conflict here.  Her sex is male, her gender is female.  Transgender.  That's what it is.