living together before...

boogerbearoriginal · September 2010

eshuafle - we're not talking about what society as a whole says on the matter, but what the Catholic Church says. Society views lots of things differently than the Catholic Church. This is a Catholic board and the OP was about what to tell her Catholic Priest, she wasn't asking about what her neighbors might think.

Why do you keep talking specifically about bedrooms? I'm not sure what you're trying to convey - especially with what I can only assume are sarcastic gasps.

The quote about faith stopping at the bedroom is simply meant to reinforce that as a Catholic your beliefs/faith should be held up in public and private. Just because your living situation (or your bedroom) is personal, doesn't mean you can ignore your beliefs when making decisions about it.

agapecarrie · September 2010

Even the most personal private sin effects the whole world. We are all spiritually connected in the body of Christ, and when you harm your own soul, you harm everyone around you...hence the need for reconcilation for the church.

Besides sexual tempation and scandal there are many reasons the church discourages living together .It does not lead to freedom. (divorce rates are higher among those who lived together before marriage).

Calypso1977 · September 2010

actually, in some states there are laws on the books that say it is illegal for an unmarried man and woman to cohabitate. obviously, they are no longer enforced, but technically it is illegal in those particular states. just like sodomy is illegal in many states, again, not enforced.

if you are someoen that believes in living life based on "what feels good" and what "makes you happy" even if that conflicts with your catholic faith, then perhaps you should find a religion that more closely fits your lifestyle and viewpoints.

the chuch shoudl not have to change for its members or for the times. church law is church law, and rules are rules.

i think its stupid that highway speed limits are only 65. many people agree with me. so should the state change the speed limit to 75 just because we think it would make more sense? newer cars are fancier, safer and move evolved. shouldnt teh state "get with the times" and up that speed limit?

eshaufle · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:1855317e-9955-428c-872e-258185b91571">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]eshuafle - we're not talking about what society as a whole says on the matter, but what the Catholic Church says. Society views lots of things differently than the Catholic Church. This is a Catholic board and the OP was about what to tell her Catholic Priest, she wasn't asking about what her neighbors might think. Why do you keep talking specifically about bedrooms? I'm not sure what you're trying to convey - especially with what I can only assume are sarcastic gasps. The quote about faith stopping at the bedroom is simply meant to reinforce that as a Catholic your beliefs/faith should be held up in public and private. Just because your living situation (or your bedroom) is personal, doesn't mean you can ignore your beliefs when making decisions about it.
Posted by Booger+Bear[/QUOTE]

I definitely did not bring up the whole bedroom thing first. I was wondering why it was getting brought up too...that kept getting brought up by other posters that really were having trouble validating any argument on why it's ok to judge people that aren't hurting them by their actions. I even responded saying I was confused how this was even getting talked about. I was being sarcastic because obviously people were dwelling on what that implied which was kind of off-topic to a certain extent.

And I didn't mean the term "old-fashioned" to sound condescending. I was using it to describe views that used to be common awhile ago but have since adapted. Not to speak less of those viewpoints (I also share some), I was just saying that some of those traditional outlooks have adapted with modern times. Basically saying that if people are living together before marriage, more often than not, this will not get looked down upon. This definitely would have years ago but times have changed.

And I believe a lot of what the Catholic church believes (hence why I am Catholic) but I still don't think any church is exempt from re-evaluating society every millenium or so. Most beliefs were developed a looooong time ago and it's bizarre to expect those beliefs to stick centuries and centuries down the road. I certainly don't expect my great great great to the 10th power grandkids to believe the same things I do. I'm assuming things will change, people will change and people will discover new information that changes what we believe. That's great if some people choose to stick to the original versions of things but I also think it's ok for people to adapt too. And no one has a right to say that makes me any less of a Catholic or religious person. It's my belief.

agapecarrie · September 2010

The 10 commandments were given milleniums ago. They aren't up for "change" with the times. Truth is truth, and does not change. 2+2=4, always has and always will.

The church is prevented from teaching error in faith and morals because Christ promised the Holy Spirit to protect her. The truth about God and his moral truth cannot change. (otherwise this would mean that he is imperfect).

Jasmine&Rajah · September 2010

[QUOTE]I think the point that a couple of us are saying here is not that it's "mean" to point out if something is technically going against what the church says. If you feel the need to point it out, fine.
Posted by eshaufle[/QUOTE]

Of course Catholics on this board would point out if something is going against the teachings of the Church. That's the whole point of being brothers and sisters in Christ - to share the Gospel, speak Truth in love, and aid one another in living out our beliefs for the glory of God - and for our salvation! Again, judging an action is not judging the individual.

I would also like to say that if following the teachings of the faith that I profess to be a member of makes me old-fashioned, then so be it. I'll wear the label with pride and joy. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />

Calypso1977 · September 2010

And I believe a lot of what the Catholic church believes (hence why I am Catholic) but I still don't think any church is exempt from re-evaluating society every millenium or so. Most beliefs were developed a looooong time ago and it's bizarre to expect those beliefs to stick centuries and centuries down the road.

im pretty sure Jesus would not be happy having his word and message changed so as to make life easier and to encourage sin.

lisa89760 · September 2010

I consider myself a pretty good catholic...not perfect...as I don't follow everything in the church (i.e. I live with my fiance just because we wanted to) As I've mentioned before, my uncle is a priest and is marrying us. He is aware we live together and has even been to our house. He has no problem marrying us and I know he's married other people that have lived together before marriage.

I agree it's not anyone's place to judge and one of my biggest problem with some christians is the idea that they can judge people based on religion. The basic principals of being a christian is loving God and being a good person and loving the people around you. That's why I like being a catholic so much

boogerbearoriginal · September 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:91578db0-7955-478c-984b-e5b699e135fe">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]
if you are someoen that believes in living life based on "what feels good" and what "makes you happy" even if that conflicts with your catholic faith, then perhaps you should find a religion that more closely fits your lifestyle and viewpoints. the chuch shoudl not have to change for its members or for the times. church law is church law, and rules are rules.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

This.

Divorce also used to be frowned upon, now it is widely accepted, should the church change her view on divorce?

starlite21l · September 2010

Thank you all so much for your thoughts. As someone who was born and raised Catholic I do know and understand the Churches stance on these issues. Knowing my priest I don't think it will be a huge issue. I was just wanted to see what other peoples experiences had been like. We will definitely go in and be completely honest with him.

To clarify for those concerned: When I graduated college a year and a half ago, when there were literally no jobs, I got a job offer in Washington DC. I moved here by myself while my FI finished grad school 7 hours away. When he graduated ,knowing we would be getting married in a year, we decided to move in together. It made the most sense knowing he would either move back to NY another 7 hours away or move to DC and pay $1,500+ for a one bedroom apartment. We chose to save for our wedding, which we are paying for ourselves, rather than spend another two years living 6+ hours away.

cindy91788 · October 2010

@BoogerBear - I do not feel the need to defend my lifestyle, and yes you are correct, I do have issues with many aspects of the Catholic religion. I am not attacking this thread. I was responding to the people who were attacking the OP saying that "financial reasons" are just an excuse for living together - a way of "justifying" it, and I think that's ridiculous. As I said earlier, there are many reasons that people may choose to live together before marriage and it does not mean that those reasons are an 'excuse' or way of justifying things. You say that by living together, although not illegal, people are purposely going against the Church's teachings... ookk... and??? What is going to happen to them? Are they going to hell? Are they going to hurt someone?? What happens if they go against the Church's teachings? Why is that SUCH a big deal to you what OTHER people do? Why not just be concerned with what you do, and ignore whether or not other people follow the Church's teachings so strictly? I dont see how couples living together before marriage could EVER hurt you or Society? HOW?? Is it going to corrupt the entire world and turn everyone into murderers? Am I missing something here?

@Calypso1977 I find it funny that everytime someone asks "why should we care about other people's personal lives", the response is examples of illegal activity? All of the examples you gave (the friend taking drugs, the friend beating his wife, the guy touching his daughter) are all illegal things, so OF COURSE people would care about those things happening. Other couples living together affects others in ABSOLUTELY no way possible. Did you ever hear the expression "to Each their own?" They are not hurting you. They are not hurting society. Just because it is not something you would do - and you believe it is a sin, doesn't make it wrong for others if it is not affecting you. Of course people would care what their kids would think of them. I would never try to teach my kids that they should avoid doing something the CHURCH believes is "wrong" or a sin. I would never force my religious beliefs on my children. It is MUCH more important to me to teach them what is ILLEGAL and what is Acceptable for SOCIETY, rather than what the Church believes is a sin. I'd rather they not hurt themselves or others and learn how to be a good human being. My parents never forced their religious beliefs on me and my sister growing up. They let us make our own decisions about religion and make our own choices, and I think we both turned out to be pretty great adults. The only thing that matters is your PERSONAL religious beliefs, and how YOUR actions make YOU feel.

@eshaufle - I agree with what you said 150%. I think when the people here are concerned about what God thinks of them. Because like you said, most people could care less what other people do. And if people do care that much about what someone else is doing, then that is pretty sad.

I don't think that the Catholic church should "conveniently" change what is right and wrong to "make life easier". But, we as individuals have the right to follow whatever religion we want, and live our lives the way we want. If some of us choose to only follow parts of a religion, that is our choice - our beliefs, and it does not make us any less of a Catholic person. Personally, I don't see how it is possible to agree 100% with any religion. We all have our own opinions, beliefs, morals, etc.. so I think that is probably near impossible.

I also find it very interesting that it is up to the Priest to decide whether or not he wants to marry you if you are "living in sin" by living together before marriage (or something else. If the Catholic religion is so exact (2 + 2 =4 and always will), then why wouldn't there be a black or white answer. Either all Priest should not marry anybody who lives together before marriage, or all Priests should marry them. Why is that up for a decision?? If it is a sin, then why is it sometimes ok? I personally find that very hypocritical..

I apologize for taking over this post with topics that aren't 100% related to the original posting. I understand this is a Catholic board, but felt the need to speak my mind when I saw someone being judgemental of the OP.

And for the record... Calypso1977 - who are you to tell someone that "maybe they should find another religion that is better suited for them" if they don't 100% agree with everything the Catholic church teaches?

I find it VERY hard to believe that many people agree 100% with the teachings of the Catholic church. Obviously, Priests don't even agree 100% if some of them will marry people that live together for marriage!!

cindy91788 · October 2010

and i'd love to see those statistics that say there is a higher rate of divorce for people who live together before marriage, because that seems extremely unlikely.

agapecarrie · October 2010

Just because priests deal with cohabitating couples differently does not mean that cohabitation is up for moral discussion.

even secular studies have shown that cohabitating couples have higher rates of divorce, and it makes perfect sense.

Calypso1977 · October 2010

I would never try to teach my kids that they should avoid doing something the CHURCH believes is "wrong" or a sin. I would never force my religious beliefs on my children.

it is absolutely your job to guide and teach your children the Catholic faith (or if you are jewish, the jewish faith, or muslim the muslim faith).

here's a good article that addresses the stats of living together first. yes, it may be a factor in divorce, but not always.

http://people.bu.edu/charris/marriage.html

cindy91788 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:6d14db9b-3dc3-4bca-862d-7f5d87c5fff3">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]Just because priests deal with cohabitating couples differently does not mean that cohabitation is up for moral discussion. even secular studies have shown that cohabitating couples have higher rates of divorce, and it makes perfect sense.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
How can you say that just because Priests "deal with" cohabitating couples differently doesn't mean it is up for moral discussion? If cohabitating befoere marriage is against the "Churchs' Laws", and is considered a Sin, then it should NOT be allowed, and NO PRIESTS should marry someone that is doing that.

You people say that some of us want to change the Catholic Church's "laws" in order to make life easier, or interpret things so they are more convenient for us, yet isn't that EXACTLY what a Priest is doing if he decides to marry a cohabitating couple?
How can anyone possibly take that so called "sin" so seriously, if some Priests don't even care if you do it?? Must not be that big of a deal then, huh?

The Bible is a book, and like every other book, every person interprets it differently. So while one person feels certain things are more important, others may not feel that way. And it doesn't make either person right or wrong. What makes you wrong is when you force your interpretations upon other people who don't agree with your interpretation of it. How each of us choose to live our lives is nobody's business but our own (as I've said before) and as long as we're not doing anything to possibly harm another individual (which we've already discussed that cohabitating before marriage does not affect other people. And don't say it affects their kids, because it is THEIR KIDS, and they can choose to "affect" them that way if they want to).

cindy91788 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:7c077ac3-16d2-4c76-bfb5-862a95e6f54b">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]I would never try to teach my kids that they should avoid doing something the CHURCH believes is "wrong" or a sin. I would never force my religious beliefs on my children. it is absolutely your job to guide and teach your children the Catholic faith (or if you are jewish, the jewish faith, or muslim the muslim faith). here's a good article that addresses the stats of living together first. yes, it may be a factor in divorce, but not always. <a href="http://people.bu.edu/charris/marriage.html" rel="nofollow">http://people.bu.edu/charris/marriage.html</a>
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Why is it my "job" to teach my children the Catholic faith? Because the Church says if I get married in a Catholic Church I must raise my kids Catholic? Well guess what, that is one of the teachings that I don't agree with.

First of all, if I decide not to force my kids to belive in the Catholic faith, that is my decision and my business.
Like I said, my parents (and MANY other parents) have allowed their kids to make their own decisions about religion and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. And what happens if I don't force them to be Catholics? Why can't anybody ever explain what happens if you don't follow all the teachings?

mica178 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:fe47d994-4109-436f-b971-ccbfe07636ff">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: living together before... : Why is it my "job" to teach my children the Catholic faith? Because the Church says if I get married in a Catholic Church I must raise my kids Catholic? Well guess what, that is one of the teachings that I don't agree with. First of all, if I decide not to force my kids to belive in the Catholic faith, that is my decision and my business. Like I said, my parents (and MANY other parents) have allowed their kids to make their own decisions about religion and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. And what happens if I don't force them to be Catholics? Why can't anybody ever explain what happens if you don't follow all the teachings?
Posted by cindy91788[/QUOTE]

<div>If that is the case, you should not get married in the Catholic church. Part of the agreement is that you will raise your children in the church. I understand that not everyone agrees with 100% of the church's teachings, but please don't enter a sacrament with a lie.</div>

agapecarrie · October 2010

Since living together without marriage is sinful, then priests are helping the couple make things right by marrying them. The way the priests choose to deal with this couple varies, but that does not change the fact that cohabiting is wrong.

And yes it does effect others, as I said before, even the smallest most personal sin effects the whole church because we are the body of Christ. There is a spiritual plain at work too. We are all called to call each other to holiness.

Christ instituted the church to interpret Scripture. The church is the pillar and foundation of truth-- (which is in scripture) otherwise what you have is 30,000 denominations. Moral truth isn't relative to what you want it to be.

It does make some right and others wrong, because there is right and wrong. I'm not "forcing" anything. I'm speaking the truth.

cindy91788 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:ba0f3dfc-4a85-4f5a-b7c5-cb132266d56b">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]Since living together without marriage is sinful, then priests are helping the couple make things right by marrying them. The way the priests choose to deal with this couple varies, but that does not change the fact that cohabiting is wrong. And yes it does effect others, as I said before, even the smallest most personal sin effects the whole church because we are the body of Christ. There is a spiritual plain at work too. We are all called to call each other to holiness. Christ instituted the church to interpret Scripture. The church is the pillar and foundation of truth-- (which is in scripture) otherwise what you have is 30,000 denominations. Moral truth isn't relative to what you want it to be. It does make some right and others wrong, because there is right and wrong. I'm not "forcing" anything. I'm speaking the truth.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
That is the biggest piece of horse sh&t I've ever heard..

Calypso1977 · October 2010

i think that is the first swear ive ever seen on this board.

i realize that you dont get any of this because you are not thinking about the various scenarios and situations from a catholic view point, but rather a secular wordly view point. when you look at it from the secular, some of your arguments do make sense. for example, living together is not illegal in the secular world, but it is illegal, so to speak, in the catholic church world. living together doesnt hurt anyone in teh secular world, but in the catholic world, it does hurt god and those persons who may be looking for guidance or examples to be set by others.

when arguing secular vs religious, we'll most likely never agree.

cindy91788 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:01d36cbb-c128-450f-bd48-e7dacebe81b3">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: living together before... : If that is the case, you should not get married in the Catholic church. Part of the agreement is that you will raise your children in the church. I understand that not everyone agrees with 100% of the church's teachings, but please don't enter a sacrament with a lie.
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

A) We are getting married in a Catholic church, because we are Catholic. Period.

B) We are not having children, so it doesn't matter.

And again, you say "Please don't enter a sacrament with a lie". (see B above).. who are you to tell me or anybody what to do? Are you God? I didn't think so.

cindy91788 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:4bbe6ab8-9d63-4b24-a2b2-5c0ef84d51b5">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]i think that is the first swear ive ever seen on this board. i realize that you dont get any of this because you are not thinking about the various scenarios and situations from a catholic view point, but rather a secular wordly view point. when you look at it from the secular, some of your arguments do make sense. for example, living together is not illegal in the secular world, but it is illegal, so to speak, in the catholic church world. living together doesnt hurt anyone in teh secular world, but in the catholic world, it does hurt god and those persons who may be looking for guidance or examples to be set by others. when arguing secular vs religious, we'll most likely never agree.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
I still don't see how that bolded part makes any sense. Why should anyone be looking for examples to be set by others? Especially strangers? We (or at least I) learn from my parents and people that are close to me. As I said earlier, my parents let my sister and I make our own choices growing up, and we turned out fine. As far as I can see, nobody got "hurt" in the process, Catholic world or not. I surround myself with people who support my life style choices, and avoid people who think I am setting a "bad example" for others. Why would I want to surround myself with people who would feel/think that way about me? Therefore, if the people around me support my lifestyle, then I am not setting a bad example for them, therefore, you are incorrect.
I also don't understand why anybody would be so concerned about couples living together setting a bad example for others, when I can probably think of a million other more serious things that set bad examples for others .. illegal or not. In the grand scheme of life, is it really that big of a deal? I understand you are looking at it from the Catholic viewpoint..but honestly...why is it is so important in the Catholic view at all? I never understood that, and I never will... which is why we have no problem living together before marriage!

cindy91788 · October 2010

oh, and I didn't use a "curse word" lol.. I censored it. *gasp* your virgin ears.

lisa89760 · October 2010

I agree with a lot of points in this arguement, but I do believe that me living with my fiance prior to marriage does not affect my Catholic faith in any way and does not make me less of a Catholic.

I don't understand why some Catholics choose to harp on certain "Catholic Laws" as defining factors in what makes someone a Catholic. I had a priest in church one do an entire homily on how if you get divorced you aren't a real Catholic. Well my parents are divorced, and my mom was about in tears listening to this priest go on and on and on about how she wasn't a real Catholic! I thought that was horrible and my uncle (the priest) actually wrote that guy an e-mail to tell him how bad it was.

I don't think that God or Jesus is looking at me saying I'm a bad Catholic because my FI and I live together. But each person had their own opinion on how they choose to follow the Catholic faith.

I will say (and I've heard other Catholics and priests agree) that there are a lot of "grey" areas when it comes to the Catholic church's rules. A good example is some priests marrying couples who live together prior to marriage. Personally, I have not heard of any priests around me not marrying a couple for living together (I'm not saying it doesn't happen though). But I also agree that no religion is really black or white...there are grey areas in every religion.

I guess that's just my 2 cents

mica178 · October 2010

When one starts exempting themselves from one rule and then another, it's a slippery slope. I am not saying that anyone is perfect, just that we should try harder and stop looking for excuses.

One of the best things about going to confession isn't so much the sharing of my sins with the priest but the collaboration of how to move forward in life to avoid repeating my mistakes.

Calypso1977 · October 2010

confession is defintiely one of the best tools for obtaining guidance on choices and the various implications of choices. sadly, its one of the most underutilized tools in the church today. and IMO, that's actually teh fault of the church, not necessarily the parishioners. the priests all want people to confess, have times set up and will do them by appointment, but they dont encourage it really beyond that.

dwest2201 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:dfb9c32f-7f53-41de-b598-3f6b6beafb2c">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: living together before... : A) We are getting married in a Catholic church, because we are Catholic. Period. B) We are not having children, so it doesn't matter. And again, you say "Please don't enter a sacrament with a lie". (see B above).. who are you to tell me or anybody what to do? Are you God? I didn't think so.
Posted by cindy91788[/QUOTE]

Unless you or your FI are infertile there is no way to guarantee that you will not get pregnant if you were to get pregnant and are a Catholic abortion is not an option.

[QUOTE]oh, and I didn't use a "curse word" lol.. I censored it. *gasp* your virgin ears.
Posted by cindy91788[/QUOTE]

Actually we can't hear text, so it would be our eyes that would need covered... duh!

Jasmine&Rajah · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:22bbac47-716f-416b-8919-8e733f5dae41">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE] I don't understand why some Catholics choose to harp on certain "Catholic Laws" as defining factors in what makes someone a Catholic.
Posted by lisa89760[/QUOTE]

Lisa, I don't think anyone is harping. Pointing out doctrine and dogma - pointing out what the Church teaches - is not harping. As Catholics, we have the Bible and our Catechism to guide us - and BOTH tell us to lift one another up and promote the Truth that has been given to us! Look at how many Catholics today do not even know the "whys" behind their own religion - probably because other lay people or clergy are too afraid of "sounding judgmental" to help them learn!

It's already been stated here that certain aspects of our faith will never change. And let's remember 1 John 5, verses 3 and 4 . . .

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith. 

Cindy asked how it hurts someone if another Catholic does not fully believe or accept the teachings of our faith. As other ladies have already stated, the entire Body of Christ is affected by sin. For example, if someone takes the Eucharist without believing that it is Christ, that person desecrates my Lord, and insults Him. And as simplistic as it may sound, because I love Him, I will stand up and say that is wrong.

Ultimately, only the Lord will judge, and no one is debating that. But I am certain that one of the things that none of us want to hear from Him is, "You knew My Truth, and you did not share it."

cindy91788 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_living-together-before?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:266ae0f6-48e1-4c42-98ee-0e85190d181dPost:22bbac47-716f-416b-8919-8e733f5dae41">Re: living together before...</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree with a lot of points in this arguement, but I do believe that me living with my fiance prior to marriage does not affect my Catholic faith in any way and does not make me less of a Catholic. I don't understand why some Catholics choose to harp on certain "Catholic Laws" as defining factors in what makes someone a Catholic. I had a priest in church one do an entire homily on how if you get divorced you aren't a real Catholic. Well my parents are divorced, and my mom was about in tears listening to this priest go on and on and on about how she wasn't a real Catholic! I thought that was horrible and my uncle (the priest) actually wrote that guy an e-mail to tell him how bad it was. I don't think that God or Jesus is looking at me saying I'm a bad Catholic because my FI and I live together. But each person had their own opinion on how they choose to follow the Catholic faith. I will say (and I've heard other Catholics and priests agree) that there are a lot of "grey" areas when it comes to the Catholic church's rules. A good example is some priests marrying couples who live together prior to marriage. Personally, I have not heard of any priests around me not marrying a couple for living together (I'm not saying it doesn't happen though). But I also agree that no religion is really black or white...there are grey areas in every religion. I guess that's just my 2 cents :)
Posted by lisa89760[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you about the grey areas, and how nothing is really black and white in religion, Catholic or otherwise. And you are right, some priests will marry people who are living together and some priests won't marry them. If it was black and white, there wouldn't be a question. It would either be yes or no.
But try getting a devout Catholic to acknowlege that.. they always seem to have some kind of explanation.

mica178 · October 2010

I actually would love to have a thread where we talk about things other than cohabitation or if people can be married by a priest in a meadow or whatever, but as this is the Catholic board on the Knot's forum, conversation slants in a specific direction.

I doubt most of the active participants on this board spend their days thinking about any of the common, stereotypical Catholic "hot topics." Personally, I chose to continue to be a participant in the Catholic church because of its charitable works and because I like its structure. I think it's wonderful that internationally, the Catholic church does more to help AIDS victims than any other organization. Yes, there are "rules" of the church, but the church is probably one of the most forgiving and sympathetic, possibly BECAUSE the "rules" are written out.

Can we remember what rules Jesus said were most important?

1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.
Those two things embody why I am so happy to call myself a Catholic.

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