Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012

ArynBaker

I think a large issue is that HS students and many parents (myself and my family included) don't fully understand the loan process and are blinded by "Yay! I'm going to college!". I think a financial course should be incorporated into the HS curriculum with a section on student loans. It may not be a quick fix, but it would help future generations. 

ETA: They don't understand the loan process/commitment at the time of graduating HS. I have a much better grasp of it now.

Snippylynn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:0e683b32-a731-42aa-81cb-bb308b3b6656">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 : ya, but did you take $90k out for a career that is hard to find and that doesn't require even close to what you went to school for and now think you shouldn't have to pay it off?  Ya, things change while you're in school, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a $90k loan is going to be pretty hard to pay off as a teacher.  That is what I am talking about. 
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]
As far as I understand it, in some states, to be eligible to obtain a higher position in education-- principal, superintendent, etc- you have to have a master's.  Perhaps this was her plan when she went in, and decided it was best to do it all at once instead of trying to get a master's when she was older, had a job, had a famiily and a ton of other commitments.

You need to climb the eff down from your poll there.

I have a degree in flucking political science. It did not lead me to a job that I have now. <u><strong>BUT</strong></u> the skills that I learned are advancing me, and have provided me with the capability to do more than someone who has a degree in marketing.

Let's, for one moment, say that everyone in the country decided to switch to ONLY jobs that are well paying. So everyone becomes and engineer, or a doctor, or a lawyer. Sweet. 

Who's going to teach?
Who's going to philosophize? Oh, sorry. Forgot that in your economy, this isn't a useful skill. Who's going to study history or political science?

You know which economy did this? Former USSR. Everyone had a degree and everyone was an engineer. Who worked as a janitor. 

Its all fine and dandy to point fingers and say "Well, you're just stupid for not knowing better." but the reality is a far, far different matter.

HappinessByTheKilowatt

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:415f87c2-5ec6-4954-8bc6-f14a51baf08a">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]I think a large issue is that HS students and many parents (myself and my family included) don't fully understand the loan process and are blinded by "Yay! I'm going to college!". I think a financial course should be incorporated into the HS curriculum with a section on student loans. It may not be a quick fix, but it would help future generations. 
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]

I think that is a great idea, and I totally agree. It's easy to get lost in excitement.

I also agree with whoever said the problem is bigger than student loans. The whole system is screwed, really.

adamar15

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:415f87c2-5ec6-4954-8bc6-f14a51baf08a">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I think a large issue is that HS students and many parents (myself and my family included) don't fully understand the loan process and are blinded by "Yay! I'm going to college!".</strong>I think a financial course should be incorporated into the HS curriculum with a section on student loans. It may not be a quick fix, but it would help future generations. 
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]

I agree.  There needs to be more easily available information regarding student loans and going to college.  My HS seemed to focus more on "figure out what you want to major in and where you want to go" rather than how to do it responsibly and economically. 

Habs2Hart

Yes, obviously there's a lot more to it than that, but I was targeting that one poster's specifics.  She doesn't need a $90k masters to be a teacher.  Obviously I am not the only one who thinks that way. 

I also don't think that someone else should pay off anyone else's debts that they chose to take on, no matter how hard they worked in school.  There are people out there that also worked their asses off that don't have debts.  There are people out there that took out more than $90k worth in loans to do something specific, but they did so in order to get a job that required that from them and with a salary that they can likely pay off the loan in the standard 10 years.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:415f87c2-5ec6-4954-8bc6-f14a51baf08a">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]I think a large issue is that HS students and many parents (myself and my family included) don't fully understand the loan process and are blinded by "Yay! I'm going to college!". I think a financial course should be incorporated into the HS curriculum with a section on student loans. It may not be a quick fix, but it would help future generations. 
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]

A general economics course should be required, hands down.  Not only student loans, but other loan types, savings, investments, etc.

I think this bill is not good.  How is it fair for people to benefit who only have loans now?  What about those who SHOULD have loansnow but paid themo ff early because they were being responsible?  It opens up too many cans of worms and releases a lot of accountability that people should have for the loans they take out.

ErinG93

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:415f87c2-5ec6-4954-8bc6-f14a51baf08a">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]I think a large issue is that HS students and many parents (myself and my family included) don't fully understand the loan process and are blinded by "Yay! I'm going to college!". I think a financial course should be incorporated into the HS curriculum with a section on student loans. It may not be a quick fix, but it would help future generations.  ETA: They don't understand the loan process/commitment at the time of graduating HS. I have a much better grasp of it now.
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>This is also very true. 

</div>

ahhhitsshannyn

Snips, you knew when you took out that loan you would eventually have to pay it back at $500 per month, right? I assume you thought you might make more, but I'm sure you also knew there was a chance you might not. So who should get their loans forgiven? Everyone? Just the people who didn't get their desired jobs?

gurrlballa10

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:472a0787-2494-4a3f-a895-52d65cfa8d94">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 : Yes, but what was wrong with the state university?  Or doing community college for two years and then transferring to the state university?  I'm sure she could have gotten the same degree that way for a LOT less money. <strong>Point is, college is a choice, not a right.</strong>  You chose to go to a school you couldn't afford, and get multiple degrees that you couldn't afford.  Why should that be everyone else's (because you know the taxpayers are going to get stuck funding this) responsibility to pay off your bad financial decisions? Even if it takes you 40 years to pay off, it's YOUR responsibility!  Period.
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]

BINGO!

Snippylynn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:224d6b12-f215-4a35-8600-56e2d86bdd9e">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]Snips, you knew when you took out that loan you would eventually have to pay it back at $500 per month, right? I assume you thought you might make more, but I'm sure you also knew there was a chance you might not. So who should get their loans forgiven? Everyone? Just the people who didn't get their desired jobs?
Posted by ahhhitsshannyn[/QUOTE]
Financial education in my family- totally lacking. And yeah, call me foolish or stupid for not thinking ahead, but I also did NOT imagine that I'd end up in retail after I graduated. At the time, I was so focused on getting out of my current life, that I would have signed anything.

And really, who isn't stupid at 18?

Habs2Hart

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:95d6b070-f9f0-49a1-92dc-392384076df5">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 : <strong>As far as I understand it, in some states, to be eligible to obtain a higher position in education-- principal, superintendent, etc- you have to have a master's.  Perhaps this was her plan when she went in, and decided it was best to do it all at once instead of trying to get a master's when she was older, had a job, had a famiily and a ton of other commitments.</strong> You need to climb the eff down from your poll there. I have a degree in flucking political science. It did not lead me to a job that I have now. BUT the skills that I learned are advancing me, and have provided me with the capability to do more than someone who has a degree in marketing. Let's, for one moment, say that everyone in the country decided to switch to ONLY jobs that are well paying. So everyone becomes and engineer, or a doctor, or a lawyer. Sweet.  Who's going to teach? Who's going to philosophize? Oh, sorry. Forgot that in your economy, this isn't a useful skill. Who's going to study history or political science? You know which economy did this? Former USSR. Everyone had a degree and everyone was an engineer. Who worked as a janitor.  Its all fine and dandy to point fingers and say "Well, you're just stupid for not knowing better." but the reality is a far, far different matter.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

Sure, maybe that's her plan, but how many times have we said we can only respond to the information given us.  She said she wanted to be a teacher since she was five years old. Not a principal, not a super intendent, not a professor, a teacher.  That is what I (and a bunch of other people) were reacting to when she said she works hard so she should have her $90k debt wiped clean.  It's bullshit.  It was her choice.  She should own it. 

I never once said everyone should be an engineer, or a doctor.  The world goes around because people do other jobs, that's why there are trade schools, and athletic programs.  I never once said people shouldn't go to school for other things.  I come from a family of teachers and builders, so I know first hand what it is like to get teaching jobs (and teachers in Canada generally have it WAY better than most teachers in the US) and what is required of teachers. 

But don't come onto a BB and cry bloody poor because you (the general you, not you specifically) are WAY in over your head with debt that you don't need and that you chose to have!  The friggin economic world is in crisis because people are loaned and borrowed out their eyeballs.  Lets just make it worse for those who haven't got significant debt by making them pay for those that do.  Awesome.  Sounds good to me.  Fuuck that shhiit. 

jemmini6

Snippy, regardless of who researched the income/hire potential for their chosen fields, or where the economy tanked while enrolled (<-this happened to me, my entire degree went from a 97% hire rate even before graduation to less than 10% within 2 years after graduation).  But just because my education didn't turn out the way I expected it to doesn't make me any less responsible for the loans I took out to get it.

And plus, how do you figure the economy will get a boost if we forgive loans?  Sure, you'll have an extra $500/month in discretionary income to spend in the market, but where the hell is the money coming from to pay off what's left of your loan?  And who's discretionary income are you taking away to do that?  Loan forgiveness doesn't mean no one pays for it, it means the people who CHOSE to spend that money originally think that just because the economy sucks that everyone else should share their burden.

Any way you look at it, I just don't see how anyone thinks they are entitled to have their loans paid back?  I do agree with the programs already in place (ie, teaching in a low income area, doing non-profit work, etc), but to have your loans forgiven for no other reason then "but I didn't know I wouldn't be able to find a job" just doesn't fly.

ahhhitsshannyn

I definitely understand people are stupid at 18. I sure was. It's just amazing to me that those fucking student loan people are GIVING an 18-21 year old a $90k loan.

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:99b83d8e-8503-4cc6-9755-24fb52fe3642">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 : Financial education in my family- totally lacking. And yeah, call me foolish or stupid for not thinking ahead, but I also did NOT imagine that I'd end up in retail after I graduated. At the time, I was so focused on getting out of my current life, that I would have signed anything. And really, who isn't stupid at 18?
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

And this goes back to how the whole college/financial system is f*cked up and why we need to focus on educating kids in high school about how debt works (among other things).  But this isn't something that's going to be fixed by forgiving loans....

tkddddddddd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:4a737691-16d7-4184-aeb5-12dc3a94624d">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]i will probably be in the minority here, but i dont think these loans should be forgiven. students and parents need to make better decisions about colleges and what loans they should or should not take based upon what they actually expect to earn when they graduate.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]



I agree with responsibility but that wasn't granted to everyone. I worked through school (3 jobs TYVM) but needed a lot of loans too. Our financial advisor at the bank gave me a LOT lower quote on what I'd be paying after school versus what I actually am.

I also feel like people forget forgiving some portion of loans would stimulate the economy. I don't know ow many of the rest of you are drowning in student loan debt but FI and I get in fights at the supermarket because we can't afford the name brand or because one of us put a bag of chips in the cart we can't cover. A lot of my friends are in the same boat. Extra money would be extra money going toward other debts, purchases, buying a house someday, etc.

tkddddddddd

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:761295d7-e06b-4956-9791-2b29d7e62d30">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]90K for a teaching degree is just fuucking stupid. You don't need your masters to start out for teaching. I went to community college. I knew that was what I could afford and I didn't want loans. Even at 17 I knew I would eventually have to pay them back and it would suck ass. But I think if people assume "hey what's the worst that can happen, I can just get my loans forgiven" then people are not taking responsibility and making other people pay for your mistakes.
Posted by ahhhitsshannyn[/QUOTE]



Wait...where is this????? FI has been desperately seeking a teaching job that doesn't require a MS at lowest....

adamar15

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:352dadbc-03fd-4a51-bc42-a64ace612ff4">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]I definitely understand people are stupid at 18. I sure was. It's just amazing to me that those fucking student loan people are GIVING an 18-21 year old a $90k loan.
Posted by ahhhitsshannyn[/QUOTE]

Financial institutions have not been known to make the wisest choices :)

Snippylynn

I wouldn't qualify for the program anyway, so it's all kind of moot. 

I get it, I get it. There's no money anywhere for this to get paid off. It's a lovely dream. But, if you take an average of $500 a month and multiply that by the number of people who would have loans forgiven-- they would go on a spending spree. We are a consumer driven economy and it would pump in much needed cash. More cash going in one way, has cash going out in another. It's kind of basic economic principles.

baystateapple

I don't know about anyone else's school, but my undergrad had an "exit seminar" we were required to go to where they showed us how much debt we had accumulated over four years, and attempting to make us understand that we now had to pay it off.  Seems stupid to do it at that point; the money is already borrowed, the damage is already done.

Loan education seminars should be mandatory BEFORE a student takes out student loans.  It's easy to sign on the dotted line to accumulate the debt when you're at least four years away from paying it off and the number just seems completely arbitrary.

ahhhitsshannyn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:0342447d-2b69-4f7b-9342-d32f057a3909">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 : Wait...where is this????? FI has been desperately seeking a teaching job that doesn't require a MS at lowest....
Posted by tkddddddddd[/QUOTE]

I have never ever ever ever heard of needing a Masters to be a K-12 teacher, and I actually went to school to be a teacher. Maybe it is different in NY? But in CA you need a BA and a teaching cert.

Habs2Hart

Ya, the system is totally flawed.  Plus colleges take advantage of every situation possible.  My step brother came to a program at a college up here, he is an American.  The normal college tuition is around $5-6k a year for a 2 year program, so $12,000 for the whole program.  He was an "international" student and his tuition was $30k for the same program, because he wasn't a Canadian.  It's stupid. 

Education costs way too much money.  Up here they used to have OAC (gr 13) in high schools, but they changed the curriculum to have everyone graduate at gr 12, I was the last OAC year.  How it used to work is that those with a gr 12 diploma were only eligible for college, but if you had to have OAC for uni.  Now you just need to be in an academic program for Uni.  Anyway, then they allowed students to come back for a gap year between HS and PSE so they could take more courses if they wanted to.  Now they took it away and you have to pay for HS classes if you want to stick around.  I think it's brutal.  It's punishing those who don't go away right away to school or want more programs.  The whole education program in NA is screwed up. 

ahhhitsshannyn

Also Mrs.B earlier in this thread has been a teacher for years and doesn't have a Masters, and Whitsy too has been teaching for a while and is just now going back for her Masters.

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:011aa2e8-1ce2-432e-b090-065f304143f7">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't qualify for the program anyway, so it's all kind of moot.  I get it, I get it. There's no money anywhere for this to get paid off. It's a lovely dream. But, if you take an average of $500 a month and multiply that by the number of people who would have loans forgiven-- they would go on a spending spree. We are a consumer driven economy and it would pump in much needed cash. More cash going in one way, has cash going out in another. It's kind of basic economic principles.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

But then they'd lose out on the interest payments, which could limit the amount of future loans they'd be able to give.  That in turn could make it so that less people could go to college, meaning colleges would raise tuition to compensate for losing students, and then kids would have to take out even more debt, which they couldn't pay back.  Then of course they'd expect it to be forgiven because it was forgiven for people before and the vicious cycle starts all over again.

It's a nice idea in theory, but the ramifications of it in practice, even if we could fund it somehow are far more damaging than helping people just pay off their current loans and educating future borrowers on how to do it more responsibly.  Along with, of course, reigning in the astronomical education costs. 

gurrlballa10

I'm definitely on the bench of HS need to start educating kids on real life (money, etc).  My HS actually did have a course called Math Money Management, which was probably the most useful course I have ever taken.  It applies to the real world.  Managing your money.

I'd like someone else to pay off my non-student loan debt...that would be awesome.  But I was well aware when I took on that debt that it was my responsibility to pay it off, because that's what I signed on the dotted line for. 

montanabounding

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_student-loan-forgiveness-act-of-2012?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:48877555-724b-434d-af30-714514611108Post:011aa2e8-1ce2-432e-b090-065f304143f7">Re: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't qualify for the program anyway, so it's all kind of moot.  I get it, I get it. There's no money anywhere for this to get paid off. It's a lovely dream. But, if you take an average of $500 a month and multiply that by the number of people who would have loans forgiven-- they would go on a spending spree. We are a consumer driven economy and it would pump in much needed cash. More cash going in one way, has cash going out in another. It's kind of basic economic principles.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

I love this post for the sole reason that my first thought after reading it was, "Hey. THIS is what they should have done with all that money they gave to Solyndra..."

Megbo2012

In MA I think you need a masters within 5 years.

Habs2Hart

Also, I don't know what it's like down there, but up here it seems like everyone and their mom's want to be teachers because of the benefits, the salary and the time off.  Teachers have it pretty good in Ontario, BUT they are closing schools because there aren't enough kids because the baby boomer's kids have all graduated, yet people are flocking to become teachers still.  I don't get it.  Why are you flocking to an overpopulated career?  It's like everyone how hangs up their shingle as a contractor up here and then wonders why there aren't many jobs... because you live in a trades town.  EVERYONE is a contractor and we are in a recession. 

Kate61487

I'm with the rest of you that I think this is BS.  Especially considering this definition

Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.^[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_and_discretionary_income

crfische

What are we going to do next? Pay off people's credit cards who accumulated debt in college because we're too poor to live and live beyond our means when we're that age?

To expect other people to pay off YOUR student loans is absurd.

Also, I've never heard of needing a master's degree to teach either. I mean, they make MORE once they get it, but required? Not around these parts.

The problem is with education about loans and money, but that's the rub. It's the business. Loan lenders aren't really typically looking out for your well being.

You know what else bugs me? People who go for Master's degrees thinking they'll be able to do what they want with it, only to graduate and find out they can't do what they want to at all. I've seen that WAAAAYYYYY too often.

BostonJordan

How much does college/university cost in other parts of the country? I went to in-state university and it was $10k a semester....$80k at the end. I worked throughout to pay for housing/books/bills/food. I think to wig out over $90k is a bit extreme because to me that sounds about right. I really wouldn't complain about it.