Gay Attendant

cassfuentes

Oh wow, did I open a can of worms. Ok, I'm going to give a lot more detil in this post since I guess I was leaving out stuff I didn't really think was important before but since everything is getting dissected here we go. My friend goes by D and when my fi and I frist started dating he would set up outings for all of us constantly, fi and D really like eachother but I know they would never hang out alone because without me there as a buffer I doubt they would really have much to say. That has nothing to do with orientation, you all have friends who get along great when the group is together but dont do anything just the two of them. 

Now, D is very effeminate. He loves makeup and jewelry and pomegranate martinis and his sexual orientation is pretty hard to miss at a glance. I've introduced him to all of my family and everyone absolutly loves him. But my fi is military and most of his friends are too and, with thanks to dont ask dont tell, a lot of military boys dont quite know how to act around openly gay people. I know I'm going to get some people who vehemently disagree wit that statment but please notice I said a lot, not all. Anyways, I have brought D around some of my fi's friends and no one was every Rude to him, I would have ended that very quickly, but the ones who dont know how to cope either just ignore him like the plague or try too hard to look accepting to the point of awkwardness. 

On the issue of where he will stand, fi and I did not want a huge wedding party, we like things small and simple, but family is neither small nor simple and I have several family members I didnt want to snub. So I managed to whittle down my bms to two friends, two cousins, and fi's sister. Fi on the other hand had no idea who to have as groomsmen since some of his friends will be deployed during our wedding. I had originally wanted D to do a reading at the ceremony to be a part of the wedding but while we were discussing who could be fi's gms my mom suggested D. Fi liked the idea but we all had to stop and consider wether or not he would be comfortable. And yes, it would be more prudent to just ask him instead of starting this huge parade but I know if we ask him he will not decline, even if he doesn't want to. He'll jump through huge flaming hoops just to be a good friend if that what we wanted. So I sought etiquette advice first. Also, I believe our familys and friends are Ours now, not just his and mine and my brother will be staning with my fi, fi's sister will be standing with me. We have no qualms over who is whos friend.

Finally, I really do appreciate all the advice I've been given and I especially appreciate those who understood where I was coming from in this. We've decided to have him get ready where ever he wants, probably with the girls. Walk the isle with my cousin that he already knows, stand with the guys during the ceremony. At the reception, instead of having one large table for the wedding party, I'm going to seat them at a separate table with their familys since I know my bms will want to sit with their "plus ones". 

Thank you all for your help and I'm sorry I set off the drama train here, but I'll be honest, I'm happy it happed here ahead of time so I could work it all out before the wedding. Heres to a hopefully drama free wedding!

cassfuentes

PS sorry about all the spelling mistakes there, I definitely did not proof read

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:b41db8b4-394f-4613-a098-8d8da4543c85">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : 1. Thunderdome = get into an epic argument in a thread.  You're two of the most hard-headed, irrational people I've ever seen post on these boards, and watching the two of you go at each other would help me pass a slow week at work.  I admitted already this makes me an asswhole, but there it is. 2. And why would you need to ask?  If she was asking us about including a female friend who was closer with her but also friends with her FI, no one would say "ask what side she wants to be on."  Even asking him singles him out based on his gender and sexual orientation, which, to me, is ridiculous.  To you, it's apparently fine to treat someone differently based on their gender and sexual orientation.  To each their own.  (Although I will note that only one of us would be exposed to a harassment lawsuit if we each applied our chosen logic in the workplace.)
Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]


Wait... hold up, did you come out of nowhere and attck me for no reason then claim that I get into arguments? Ok, so you are trolling.


As to your second point, nowhere did I single him out by sexual orientation. In fact, I shared a story about my obviously straight FI in a similar situation. Like I said, not every man would feel comfortable on the bride's side and maybe she should ASK HIM what would be most comfortable FOR HIM.

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:debb0c53-39e4-413d-be69-d779c9bc4ee0">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE] And yes, it would be more prudent to just ask him instead of starting this huge parade but I know if we ask him he will not decline, even if he doesn't want to. He'll jump through huge flaming hoops just to be a good friend if that what we wanted. So I sought etiquette advice first.
Posted by cassfuentes[/QUOTE]

First, don't feel guilty for "starting a drama train," you didn't. There are certain things that people will go off on on this board regardless and uneven sides and gendered sides are two of those issues.

Second, ettiquette says you should do what makes your bridal party the most comfortable. Sometimes that's to have men on the brides side and women on the grooms side. Sometimes it's not. It sounds like you guys want him in the wedding regardless of who's side he's on, right? tell him that and let him choose what he's most comfortable with. No one here can tell you what's the best thing to do because (i'm assuming) no one here knows how he'll feel.

Again, you can't really decide that based on the knot forums. Like I said, this happened to my FI and the bride choose the whole "who cares who's on my side, I want a man of honor" route and he went along with whatever she wanted to make his friend happy. He's still, 6 years later, uncomfortable about it. Just ASK HIM.

As for him feeling uncomfortable, I'm not gay, but certainly a visible minority, and you know what? There will always been uncomfortable situations. None of my friends can shield me from awkwardness. And they shouldn't try to. In fact, my MOH comes from an extremely racist family and if she were to "protect" me from them by having me do a reading instead of standing up with her it would just make me feel like sh!t. I would feel coddled at best but far from honored.

I sat at a rehearsal dinner last month for a wedding FI was in across from the groom's Aunt while she told me about how desegregation ruins public school for white people. I managed just fine.

Get off this board and ask him what would be best for him.

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:7b3722bd-407a-49f2-808e-59af69ada94f">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : No, she came from whereever it is she sits while she posts, which she has been doing all damn day, and said she would LIKE to see you and NYU argue each other for her own personal entertainment.  And there was no attack, just that statement.  What is so hard to comprehend about this?
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]


Hard headed and irrational are no longer attacks, stage?

renegade gaucho

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:debb0c53-39e4-413d-be69-d779c9bc4ee0">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]But my fi is military and most of his friends are too and, with thanks to dont ask dont tell, a lot of military boys dont quite know how to act around openly gay people. I know I'm going to get some people who vehemently disagree wit that statment but please notice I said a lot, not all. 
Posted by cassfuentes[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Do not use your fiance's military service to justify homophobia (and this is exactly what it is- your friend's sexual orientation does not "make" anyone act a certain way).  My husband has been in the military for 18 years and was an ardent supporter of repealing DADT.  Most of the people he serves with don't give a rat's ass who sticks what where in the privacy of their own bedroom.  We have a lot of gay friends and my husband doesn't treat them any differently than he treats anyone else.  If your friends don't know how to treat him, maybe you could suggest that he is a human being and they should treat him as such.</div><div>
</div><div>Since he is closer to you than to your fiance, have him stand on your side.  Invite him to the bachelorette party and shower, since he is your friend (newsflash: you can invite men to these events, even if they are straight.) and let him decide whether to attend or not.  If your fiance considers him a friend, he should invite him to his bachelor party.   At any of these events, people can act like grownups.</div><div>
</div><div>I'd like you to re-read everything you've posted here but replace "gay" with "another race" or "another religion" and think about how it sounds.</div><div>
</div>

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:1a86581f-e9c5-462d-9810-fcc41465aa59">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]Thurman, just stop.  You are wrong and Stage is right.* *This applies to any and all situations.
Posted by Edie Bee[/QUOTE]


FFS.

Peledreamsofrain

I also vote to just ask the poor guy what he'd like to do. Good etiquette is always geared towards attending to someone's comfort, so ask him what would make him most comfortable. Only he knows the answer. Also, I really don't recommend arguing with NYU, the last time she addressed me, it was a mind boggling string of incoherant words. I still have no idea what her point was supposed to have been, or why she even was talking to me. Lol

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:0a7246c4-fec8-455e-b261-b6e7c9c2d7dd">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : 1.  No, last I checked unlike words like "moron" or "dumbass", "hardheaded" and "irrational" were simply descriptive words, not insults.  You may not like what they describe, but it's hardly the same thing as hurling personal insults at people.  Note, this also goes for words like self-absorbed and immature.   2.  She didn't call you any of those things in the initial post where "thunderdoming" was mentioned, so no she didn't insult in any way before "accusing you of starting arguments" (which she also didn't do, but again, not really the point in this particular example).   Now if what you MEANT to post was "did you just say you'd like to see me get into an argument with another poster, and then later after that describe me in an unflattering way?"  The answer would be yes.  But the question you ASKED was if she "came out of nowhere, insulted you, and then accused you of starting arguments", and the answer still remains that NO, she did not do those three things and especially not in that order.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

You're splitting hairs, and finely at that.

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:0c2ccc20-d279-40bc-ac62-1c1d9226d83a">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : No actually, she's not.
Posted by Edie Bee[/QUOTE]


....

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:0b622e2d-88b9-45ae-9449-5e671032d23b">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]I also vote to just ask the poor guy what he'd like to do. Good etiquette is always geared towards attending to someone's comfort, so ask him what would make him most comfortable. Only he knows the answer. Also, I really don't recommend arguing with NYU, the last time she addressed me, it was a mind boggling string of incoherant words. I still have no idea what her point was supposed to have been, or why she even was talking to me. Lol
Posted by Peledreamsofrain[/QUOTE]


I feel like I have disagreed with NYU a few times before, a lot of what she says comes off as very pretentious.

However, unlike some other posters here I have somehow managed to never get in a flame war with her.

thejucheidea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:17b39ca3-9068-47e1-86c0-f300a6f86c0f">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : <strong>Do not use your fiance's military service to justify homophobia </strong>(and this is exactly what it is- your friend's sexual orientation does not "make" anyone act a certain way).  My husband has been in the military for 18 years and was an ardent supporter of repealing DADT.  Most of the people he serves with don't give a rat's ass who sticks what where in the privacy of their own bedroom.  We have a lot of gay friends and my husband doesn't treat them any differently than he treats anyone else.  If your friends don't know how to treat him, maybe you could suggest that he is a human being and they should treat him as such.
Posted by renegade gaucho[/QUOTE]
Thiiiiis. This this this this this.

thurmanpowell

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:f072b676-cb01-4dcf-a79c-1ca7fb0ebbbb">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : Okay.  Whatever.  You asked if Steph was attacking you and accusing you of starting arguments.  She did neither.  If it's that important to you to think she did, I'm sure both she and I can survive the disappointment.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]


It's not important to me at all. That's what's up with the dismissal. My trolling must not be at your level because this MUD your slinging isn't interesting to me in the slightest. Go ahead and have the last word then go back to bothering NYU on that other thread (if she's interested in entertaining you).

cassfuentes

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:17b39ca3-9068-47e1-86c0-f300a6f86c0f">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Do not use your fiance's military service to justify homophobia (and this is exactly what it is- your friend's sexual orientation does not "make" anyone act a certain way).  My husband has been in the military for 18 years and was an ardent supporter of repealing DADT.  Most of the people he serves with don't give a rat's ass who sticks what where in the privacy of their own bedroom.  We have a lot of gay friends and my husband doesn't treat them any differently than he treats anyone else.  If your friends don't know how to treat him, maybe you could suggest that he is a human being and they should treat him as such. .... I'd like you to re-read everything you've posted here but replace "gay" with "another race" or "another religion" and think about how it sounds.
Posted by renegade gaucho[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>On one hand I want to defend my fi and myself, on the other hand I know no matter what I say I'm going to be wrong according to some readers. So lets leave it at this, you say you have a lot of gay friends, so you must know that a lot of people do treat homosexuals differently, wether they mean it maliciously or not. I've done nothing but look out for my friend's well being and so has my fi. None of our friends are homophobic but when anyone is introduced to a culture they don't understand uncomfortable situations do arise. You're acting like I condone treating people differently for their orientation but all I'm doing is addressing the reality of our world and trying to set the stage so D doesn't have to feel even the most mild effects of that reality at my wedding. And you're right, most people I know don't give a rats ass what happens in the privacy of their own home, but when you come face to face with a flamboyant boy in full makeup saying he cant wait to hit the dance floor most guys do not know what to say. Maybe its just the base we live on but a lot of these guys get a lot of pressure to act more macho on top of that. You have a military husband and a lot of gay friends, so you know the reality of both of those situations, don't judge me for addressing those realities just because you don't like them, I don't like them either, I'm trying to do something about it instead of denying them.

</div>

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:5e18c7d9-359a-4e96-952a-fd8a8d28d90b">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : On one hand I want to defend my fi and myself, on the other hand I know no matter what I say I'm going to be wrong according to some readers. So lets leave it at this, you say you have a lot of gay friends, so you must know that a lot of people do treat homosexuals differently, wether they mean it maliciously or not. I've done nothing but look out for my friend's well being and so has my fi. None of our friends are homophobic but when anyone is introduced to a culture they don't understand uncomfortable situations do arise. You're acting like I condone treating people differently for their orientation but all I'm doing is <strong>addressing the reality of our world</strong> and trying to set the stage so D doesn't have to feel even the most mild effects of that reality at my wedding. And you're right, most people I know don't give a rats ass what happens in the privacy of their own home, but when you come face to face with a flamboyant boy in full makeup saying he cant wait to hit the dance floor most guys do not know what to say. Maybe its just the base we live on but a lot of these guys get a lot of pressure to act more macho on top of that. You have a military husband and a lot of gay friends, so you know the reality of both of those situations, don't judge me for addressing those realities just because you don't like them, I <strong>don't like them either, I'm trying to do something about it instead of denying them.
</strong>Posted by cassfuentes[/QUOTE]


You aren't addressing the reality, you are allowing your FI's friends to be assholes.  You shouldn't make excuses or special arrangements just in case his friends are jerks.  You should not include ANYONE who would act like that in your life, or at a minimum, call them out on that shittt. 

What you are actually doing, by "trying to do something" is further singling out the gay guy, instead of singling out the macho crap and calling it out for what it is, sexist and homophobic. 

And you can take this from someone who not only "has a lot of gay friends", but is certified hommooo herself.  You aren't doing your friends or any other queer people any favors by trying to make sure you isolate the gay.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:cdf20c0e-bacd-4500-923a-c15097251b5f">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]Actually, "addressing the reality" would be calling it out. You are making excuses. My father is a vet, and the epitome of "macho", and while he is a premium Douchecanoe in more ways than I can count, even he was completely able to handle all variety of homosexuals in my wedding without acting awkward. Saying "that's just how they are and I don't want FI to have to deal with it" is doing a horrible disservice to your supposed best friend. Would you be trying to figure out how best to minimize everyone's discomfort if your friend was black instead of gay?
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I knew I loved you.   This just confirms it.

cassfuentes

He is black, shall we make that part of this too? I'm not making excuses for anyone, I have seen too many times how people act around him and I'm trying to find a way to prevent that from ruining my wedding for him. I'm not condoning it, I'm not making excuses for it, I just plain Know it happens. I came for advice on what to do about it in a formal setting. I got that advice and I'm appreciative for it.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:47efabd8-c12b-4489-8f3c-67ad28f948fa">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : I knew I loved you.   This just confirms it.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

And by "love" I mean that in the purely, "I love your brain and the way you think" way, not in the "I want to do ya" way..   just in case there are any homophobes out there who still think we are all oversexed crazies.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:ac948abe-b9a8-4187-a762-252b0c43a7cd">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]He is black, shall we make that part of this too? I'm not making excuses for anyone, I have seen too many times how people act around him and I'm trying to find a way to prevent that from ruining my wedding for him. I'm not condoning it, I'm not making excuses for it, I just plain Know it happens. I came for advice on what to do about it in a formal setting. I got that advice and I'm appreciative for it.
Posted by cassfuentes[/QUOTE]

What you should do in a formal setting?  Is tell your FI's friends to man up and stop acting uncomfortable.  This isn't the gay boy's problem. It's THEIR problem. THEY are the ones with the issue. Address THEM.

StephBeanWed61502

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:0765b434-ce86-450f-8d88-ce0e10423c45">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : What you should do in a formal setting?  Is tell your FI's friends to man up and stop acting uncomfortable.  This isn't the gay boy's problem. It's THEIR problem. THEY are the ones with the issue. Address THEM.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

<div><3 <3 <3 <3 <3</div><div>
</div><div>That is all.</div>

AJG456

maybe it depends on where you're from? I hope that society soon isn't like this and that anyone/everyone's sexual orientation will someday not be a big deal (or any sort of deal at all) but we have to face the fact that in some parts of the country many gay people don't feel safe or comfortable coming out, so therefore those parts of the country have very few gay people for anyone to meet or interact with.  Just how it is right now, unfortunately. So, a person may not hate gay people but they may have actually not met any. At all. (that they know of) 

So maybe "uncomfortable" isn't the word I would use since it has a negative connotation.  I can't think of a better one though. But, for example, due to where I grew up, etc. I have had very little interaction with people who are Muslim. If i were to have dinner with someone who was, or any other social situation, I would certainly be nice and interested and would love to get to know them, just as I would any new person, but perhaps I wouldn't act the same as I would with someone with a very similar background to myself. I personally think than when meeting strangers, it is sometimes more comfortable and easier to "get started" so to speak when people have more in common. 

Homophobia is not OK. Avoidance of someone just because they're different from you is not OK.  Rudeness to someone different from you is not OK. Not quite knowing how to act with someone from a group you haven't interacted with before isn't great, but its not horrible.  

So to get back to the OP- she and her FI and his friends just don't sound horrible to me. I definitely think they should just ask him and not overthink it, but I don't think this is a big, red-flag problem for them. 

StephBeanWed61502

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:07dd4b08-7d89-47d8-84a6-df9773790c27">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]maybe it depends on where you're from? I hope that society soon isn't like this and that anyone/everyone's sexual orientation will someday not be a big deal (or any sort of deal at all) but we have to face the fact that in some parts of the country many gay people don't feel safe or comfortable coming out, so therefore those parts of the country have very few gay people for anyone to meet or interact with.  Just how it is right now, unfortunately. So, a person may not hate gay people but they may have actually not met any. At all. (that they know of)  So maybe "uncomfortable" isn't the word I would use since it has a negative connotation.  I can't think of a better one though. But, for example, due to where I grew up, etc. I have had very little interaction with people who are Muslim. <strong>If i were to have dinner with someone who was, or any other social situation, I would certainly be nice and interested and would love to get to know them, just as I would any new person, but perhaps I wouldn't act the same as I would with someone with a very similar background to myself.</strong> I personally think than when meeting strangers, it is sometimes more comfortable and easier to "get started" so to speak when people have more in common.  Homophobia is not OK. Avoidance of someone just because they're different from you is not OK.  Rudeness to someone different from you is not OK. Not quite knowing how to act with someone from a group you haven't interacted with before isn't great, but its not horrible.   So to get back to the OP- she and her FI and his friends just don't sound horrible to me. I definitely think they should just ask him and not overthink it, but I don't think this is a big, red-flag problem for them. 
Posted by AJG456[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Seriously?  How would these interactions be different?</div><div>
</div><div>Scenario 1:</div><div>"Hi new person who happens to share my religion/sexual orientation/whatever.  Nice to meet you.  I'm AJG.  How are you today?"</div><div>
</div><div>Scenario 2:</div><div>"Hi new person who doesn't happen to share my religion/sexual orientation/whatever.  Nice to meet you.  I'm AJG.  How are you today?"</div><div>
</div><div>Oh look!  There's NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL.  If you want to be an apologist for homophobes and racists, have a party, but don't chalk it off to regional differences.  I know plenty of people from all parts of the country, including the scary "conservative" parts, who are awesome and accepting and not rendered mute and "uncomfortable" by other people's differences.  I also know plenty of mildly racist and homophobic idiots from all parts of the country, including the supposedly liberal and enlightened places.  Geography is not an excuse for bad behavior.</div><div>
</div>

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:07dd4b08-7d89-47d8-84a6-df9773790c27">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]maybe it depends on where you're from? I hope that society soon isn't like this and that anyone/everyone's sexual orientation will someday not be a big deal (or any sort of deal at all) but we have to face the fact that in some parts of the country many gay people don't feel safe or comfortable coming out, so therefore those parts of the country have very few gay people for anyone to meet or interact with.  Just how it is right now, unfortunately. So, a person may not hate gay people but they may have actually not met any. At all. (that they know of)  So maybe "uncomfortable" isn't the word I would use since it has a negative connotation.  I can't think of a better one though. But, for example, due to where I grew up, etc. I have had very little interaction with people who are Muslim. If i were to have dinner with someone who was, or any other social situation, I would certainly be nice and interested and would love to get to know them, just as I would any new person, but perhaps I<strong> wouldn't act the same as I would with someone with a very similar background</strong> to myself. I personally think than when meeting strangers, it is sometimes more comfortable and easier to "get started" so to speak when people have more in common.  Homophobia is not OK. Avoidance of someone just because they're different from you is not OK.  Rudeness to someone different from you is not OK. Not quite knowing how to act with someone from a group you haven't interacted with before isn't great, <strong>but its not horrible</strong>.   So to get back to the OP- she and her FI and his friends just don't sound horrible to me. I definitely think they should just ask him and not overthink it, but I don't think this is a big, red-flag problem for them. 
Posted by AJG456[/QUOTE]


For the first bolded part. Why not?  What are you afraid of?  Why wouldnt' you just interact like you would with any other stranger?  Get to know them without a preconceived judgment.

For the second bolded part.  It actually IS horrible.  As a queer person, it is NOT fun and it is absolutely horrible when someone interacts with me like they are afraid or they think I'm going to try to hit on them at any moment or steal their girlfriend.

I am not saying OP or FI or FI's friends are horrible people. But, acting uncomfortable around someone just because you arent' familiar with them <strong>IS</strong> a horrible behavior. 

Getting over your discomfort is YOUR problem.  Not the muslim person's problem. Not the queer person's problem. Not the black person's problem.  

AJG456

i'm not saying its deliberate. So, the conversation might be "hey new person. how are you?" blah blah  what did you do this weekend? (they say- something cultural I'm not familiar with- a holiday or something) So I ask- what do you do for that? or how do you celebrate that? etc. and we discuss. As opposed to someone who grew up a town over, they say what they did, I say Oh yeah, i did that, did you like this place there better or that other place? etc etc  when you do the same things and have the same background etc I just think interactions are a bit more natural. 

I'm really not expressing myself well.  The point is that complete unfamilarity can make things harder- the more everyone gets to know everyone else, on a worldly level I suppose, can only make things better, but things just aren't there yet. 

StephBeanWed61502

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:8cd04398-a3f8-4ecb-a4ce-95d8a1278aed">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]i'm not saying its deliberate. So, the conversation might be "hey new person. how are you?" blah blah  what did you do this weekend? (they say- something cultural I'm not familiar with- a holiday or something) So I ask- what do you do for that? or how do you celebrate that? etc. and we discuss. As opposed to someone who grew up a town over, they say what they did, I say Oh yeah, i did that, did you like this place there better or that other place? etc etc  when you do the same things and have the same background etc I just think interactions are a bit more natural.  I'm really not expressing myself well.  The point is that complete unfamilarity can make things harder- the more everyone gets to know everyone else, on a worldly level I suppose, can only make things better, but things just aren't there yet. 
Posted by AJG456[/QUOTE]

<div>So because things "just aren't there yet," ignorant people like you should get a free pass when they act like awkward fools just because somebody is "different"?  I'm sorry, but that's absurd.</div><div>
</div><div>ETA:  How the fluck are we supposed to get "there" if we keep giving people free passes on treating people who are too "different" for their narrow minds to handle like rare exotic zoo animals instead of human beings?  If no one ever stands up and says "hey, acting like you're uncomfortable with another human being and treating them differently just because they aren't from the next town over IS NOT OKAY" how is anyone ever going to change?  </div>

AJG456

Maybe I should make it more personal to myself. I'm an atheist.  Its not as visible or obvious as some minorities, but a minority nonetheless. sometimes when people find out I'm an atheist, they're surprised. They don't quite know what to do with the information. Its a worldview that they just aren't familiar with and they can't quite comprehend it. So they might ask awkward questions or be a little weird for a while. Then eventually they get over it. And they are not horrible people and I don't think less of them for that awkwardness. I guess thats the worldview I'm coming from. I know that I do not hate, think less of or anything else people who are different from myself for whatever reason, so there isn't much else I can say. 

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:8cd04398-a3f8-4ecb-a4ce-95d8a1278aed">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]i'm not saying its deliberate. So, the conversation might be "hey new person. how are you?" blah blah  what did you do this weekend? (they say- something cultural I'm not familiar with- a holiday or something) So I ask- what do you do for that? or how do you celebrate that? etc. and we discuss. As opposed to someone who grew up a town over, they say what they did, I say Oh yeah, i did that, did you like this place there better or that other place? etc etc  when you do the same things and have the same background etc I just think interactions are a bit more natural.  I'm really not expressing myself well.  The point is that complete unfamilarity can make things harder- the more everyone gets to know everyone else, on a worldly level I suppose, can only make things better, <strong>but things just aren't there yet. 
</strong>Posted by AJG456[/QUOTE]


The thing is, if you meet someone new, it's always awkward at first. It doesn't matter if it's someone you who's culture you are familiar with, or not. It's a new person.  The more you get to know them, the more "natural" it will be.  It is when you recoil in some uncomfortable way like "you want to a GAY bar?  OMG OMG OMG.  What am going to say to that?"  Or "you went to temple?  Um.... I have nothing in common with you...  I shall shift uncomfortably in my seat while trying not to make eye contact" is what causes the problem.    The apporpriate response to someone expressing that they participated in something you aren't familiar with is "Wow, that sounds interesting. Tell me more about it!"

And for the bolded part... they "just aren't there yet", because people continue to make excuses that indicate that it is acceptable for it NOT to be there yet. 

monkeysip

I think there's some holier-than-thou-ness going on in this thread.

Can we all please recognize for a moment that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has prejudices.  Everybody.  I don't care who you are.  Everybody makes assumptions, and everybody has moments where they act differently around someone of a different culture or character.  It's a fact.

Am I saying that's right?  NO.  Prejudice is not okay. 

Am I saying that OP should keep her gay friend from her FI's friends?  NO.  They need to deal with it and get over their prejudices/discomfort.

All I'm saying is that some people here are acting like anyone who would ever possibly have a prejudice is some terrible and "ignorant" person.  If that's the case, then everyone is terrible and ignorant sometimes.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:2b18fe81-b1c3-4adb-94b6-23da305557e2">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant: Speak for yourself. Some of us are oversexed crazies. Of course I'm a STRAIGHT oversexed crazy, so that makes it socially acceptable.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Right !!  we have to be asexual in public !   Or we are offending folks... or trying to recruit their daughters !  

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:6ff76b70-1f37-46d1-9a65-13f50447b03c">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]I think there's some holier-than-thou-ness going on in this thread. Can we all please recognize for a moment that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has prejudices.  Everybody.  I don't care who you are.  Everybody makes assumptions, and everybody has moments where they act differently around someone of a different culture or character.  It's a fact. Am I saying that's right?  NO.  Prejudice is not okay.  Am I saying that OP should keep her gay friend from her FI's friends?  NO.  They need to deal with it and get over their prejudices/discomfort. All I'm saying is that some people here are acting like anyone who would ever possibly have a prejudice is some terrible and "ignorant" person.  If that's the case, then everyone is terrible and ignorant sometimes.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

Prejudices ARE ignorant.   Does everyone have them at some point in their life?  Probably.    The point is, the person to which the prejudice is directed at is in no way responsible for changing the prejudiced person's mind and/or heart.  It's up to each of us to decide to educate ourselves, to accept people where they are at, and generally, not to act like idiots and get over ourselves.   Blaming it on the victim of prejudice is never ok, whether it's the common response or not.