Gay Attendant

GardenMaven

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:522966ae-9614-4c53-8a85-88155e5eac4c">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : It IS well accepted.  And one of the primary reasons it is still accepted is because of the high rate of sexual assault, which is most commonly perpetrated by men.  Men are not generally taught not to sexually assault and rape people. Instead, we put the responsibility on the women not to be too provacative.  Don't walk alone at night. Carry a weapon, etc.  Instead of saying "hey men. Don't flucking rape us!".  It is also very much accepted because of religion.  Religion doesn't trust people to make decisions about what to do with their own bodies.  We must seperate the genders so not to lead us into temptation. This is constantly a problem for my partner and I.  I am a pretty much high femme. But, my partner is very butch.  Women scream and run for cover when we walk into a public restroom or fitting room at a department store.  We have had women go and report my partner to security.  At one point, during a baseball game, security stormed into the bathroom at the Oakland Colliseum and started pushing doors open trying to find the "man in the women's bathroom".   My partner has breasts and is easily identifiable as female if you look for more than 2 seconds. But, god forbid a female have short hair and dress in masculine fashion.  Women are terrified that the men are out to get them, and our society perpetuates this fear. But, wow... that's another conversation completely.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>That is horrible!  I would want to smack those women in the face.  And I won't even go into the people who have an issue with children of the opposite gender being in public bathrooms with their parent.  Again, it's a fear thing.  </div>

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:a40e045e-c411-4768-865a-0f926014b8c0">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : Wow.... that's crazy.  It's bizarre that women have actually reported your partner. I guess the issue of men being statistically more likely to assault woman than vice versa does make sense as being a good rationale.  The religious issue seems irrelevant for most people nowadays, so that doesn't seem as convincing.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

The religious issue actually is pretty relevant. It is religion that continues to enforce most uptight beliefs about sex and sexuality. Sex before marriage = badddd because of religion. Homosexuality = bad because of religion. 

Religion constantly reinforces that temptation is bad. Sex is bad, unless you are having babies, etc.  And, the sexualization of females is the root of it all.   Again... this is a BIG issue and something I have a lot of information on...  and probably way to big to get into here in any sort of depth.

monkeysip

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:ebbb6752-4133-49a2-8a81-9a9e85bad56a">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : The religious issue actually is pretty relevant. It is religion that continues to enforce most uptight beliefs about sex and sexuality. Sex before marriage = badddd because of religion. Homosexuality = bad because of religion.  Religion constantly reinforces that temptation is bad. Sex is bad, unless you are having babies, etc.  And, the sexualization of females is the root of it all.   Again... this is a BIG issue and something I have a lot of information on...  and probably way to big to get into here in any sort of depth.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying religion has no effect on people's perceptions of sexuality.  I'm religious, and it certainly affects my beliefs on sexuality (and I have to disagree with your simplistic representations).  However, most people, even many religious, don't seem to uphold more traditional religious beliefs about chastity.  (How many still wait until marriage?).  So it seems odd that just religion would be continuing the social norms of keeping separate bathrooms/changing rooms for different sexes.

I agree that the sexualization, and particularly the objectification, of females has a lot to do with it these issues though.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:a5e17b4f-6a30-4f1e-9de2-051da6cfb408">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get it. I have no problem changing in front of anyone, straight gay, or lesbian.  Most of the time  I dress very conservative. I think some people need to lighten up. Just because you are changing near someone does not mean that they are staring at you or like you are a piece of meat.
Posted by snippet17[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Come on, we ALL have our own comfort levels.  </div><div>
</div><div> I don't have issues trying on clothes at uni-sexed dressing rooms.  However, I only allow a few select people physically watch my get changed.  DH and my sister pretty much.  </div><div>
</div><div>My DH isn't even comfortable with ME watching him get dressed.   He doesn't like people to see his belly.  He always sleeps with a t-shirt on.   When we go to the beach he will wear his shirt to the water line, take it off, then his belly is below the waterline the whole time.</div><div>
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GardenMaven

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:e8597e0e-9dda-4cd5-a9f4-fe57e64beaea">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : I'm not saying religion has no effect on people's perceptions of sexuality.  I'm religious, and it certainly affects my beliefs on sexuality (and I have to disagree with your simplistic representations).  However, most people, even many religious, don't seem to uphold more traditional religious beliefs about chastity.  (How many still wait until marriage?).  So it seems odd that just religion would be continuing the social norms of keeping separate bathrooms/changing rooms for different sexes. I agree that the sexualization, and particularly the objectification, of females has a lot to do with it these issues though.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

<div>It is not just religion.  Society and culture also influence it.  However, religion heavily informs Western society and culture, so pointing at religion isn't really incorrect.  The majority of people in the Western world practice religions that look down on nudity and sexualize it.  So that in turn makes society as a whole more likely to look down on it.  Not to say that individuals do not have their own opinions.</div>

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:e8597e0e-9dda-4cd5-a9f4-fe57e64beaea">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : I'm not saying religion has no effect on people's perceptions of sexuality.  I'm religious, and it certainly affects my beliefs on sexuality (and I have to disagree with your simplistic representations).  However, most people, even many religious, don't seem to uphold more traditional religious beliefs about chastity.  (How many still wait until marriage?).  So it seems odd that just religion would be continuing the social norms of keeping separate bathrooms/changing rooms for different sexes. I agree that the sexualization, and particularly the objectification, of females has a lot to do with it these issues though.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

I don't mean that religion is the ONLY reason for beliefs towards sexuality. I mean it is a major contributing factor in our society.  And, even the ones who do believe in chastity, don't necessarily follow it.  I can attest to that personally. I used to work as a volunteer in an abortion clinic.  I cannot even count the number of moms who came in with their daughters and said they were christian, and they don't believe in abortion or premarital sex, but this was "just an accident", and their daughter's situation was "different".  Um, they are all different sweetheart.

Anyway... I don't mean to simplify the representation of religion, I just mean to include it in the overall basis of sexual mores.  Those mores contribute to the larger issue of sexuality and sexualization, which contribute to the social norms about bathrooms and general comfort around the opposite sex (or same sex, in the case of gay or lesbians).  It's complicated, yet... if people just got over their hangups, and realized, people need to pee... it really isn't a big deal.

monkeysip

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:481f77dd-8ace-4471-a64e-034f6a07bf26">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : I don't mean that religion is the ONLY reason for beliefs towards sexuality. I mean it is a major contributing factor in our society.  And, even the ones who do believe in chastity, don't necessarily follow it.  I can attest to that personally. I used to work as a volunteer in an abortion clinic.  I cannot even count the number of moms who came in with their daughters and said they were christian, and they don't believe in abortion or premarital sex, but this was "just an accident", and their daughter's situation was "different".  Um, they are all different sweetheart. Anyway... I don't mean to simplify the representation of religion, I just mean to include it in the overall basis of sexual mores.  Those mores contribute to the larger issue of sexuality and sexualization, which contribute to the social norms about bathrooms and general comfort around the opposite sex (or same sex, in the case of gay or lesbians).  It's complicated, yet... if people just got over their hangups, and realized, people need to pee... it really isn't a big deal.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

I guess my statement is really more of an overall statement that by judging current society's actions, separate changing rooms, etc. shouldn't be the norm.  But you're right, there are many people who still cling to religious morality even if they don't practice it.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:bd3fad45-49e8-4b8c-a7ea-5d0dbcc60e47">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Come on, we ALL have our own comfort levels.    I don't have issues trying on clothes at uni-sexed dressing rooms.  However, I only allow a few select people physically watch my get changed.  DH and my sister pretty much.   My DH isn't even comfortable with ME watching him get dressed.   He doesn't like people to see his belly.  He always sleeps with a t-shirt on.   When we go to the beach he will wear his shirt to the water line, take it off, then his belly is below the waterline the whole time.
Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with the "we all have our own comfort levels" thing.  I wouldn't necessarily get undressed in front of a stranger, gay or straight, male or female. I just wouldn't automatically exclude someone from a list of people I may eventually be comfortable with, based on their gender or sexual preference.

monkeysip

Houston, ha. Are you saying that because of my statement about most people not following religious norms about sexuality anymore? Again, I tried to clarify that many people still hold to these norms without actually following them ex: only a small percentage waits until marriage. Or was it something else I said?

Peledreamsofrain

I have to chime in on your partner's experience, CMG. Our society is crazy stupid about gender roles. Back in college, I used to have an adorable pixie cut. I also very rarely wear a skirt. Almost weekly at work, people would call me 'sir'. Now, I have a size D chest, and really large hips paired with a small waist. I couldn't have a more exaggerated female figure if I tried. yet because I had short hair and didn't flash my legs around, I was 'sir' at first glance. It was maddening, and hard on my self esteem. So I guess the moral is that people are dumb, to heck with them

cassfuentes

Not to make this forum dislike me more but I once made a very honest mistake in that vein. I'm a waitress and I was running appetizers to a table that wasn't mine. As I was walking up to the table a woman was sitting facing me and another person was sitting facing away from me who had very long straight hair. I looked down at the tray as I approached the table and as I was picking up thier appetizer, before I was looking straight at them I started to say "Did you ladies order the..." And I was looking in the eye of one of the manliset looking men I've ever seen. Litterally looked like Fabio, complete with the luxurious locks. I honestly felt like utter dog s**t. He looked at me, smiled and said in a forced high piched voice "yeah darlin' thats ours"  Him and his girlfriend still come in to our restaurant and love to tease me about it. I'm not going to try to justify it, I still feel like a douche for it, but whenever I serve that couple they do seem to like me dispite that instance. And yeah, I know guys with long hair, but I think its more common for girls to have short hair than for guys to have long hair, at least where I live. And here the Skrillex hairstyle is becoming huge, so yeah, I've definitely learned my lesson to look first, but using gender specific "sir" and "mam" is kind of a big part of customer service.