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Gay Attendant

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Re: Gay Attendant

  • StephBeanWed61502StephBeanWed61502 member
    2500 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:6ff76b70-1f37-46d1-9a65-13f50447b03c">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]I think there's some holier-than-thou-ness going on in this thread. Can we all please recognize for a moment that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has prejudices.  Everybody.  I don't care who you are.  Everybody makes assumptions, and everybody has moments where they act differently around someone of a different culture or character.  It's a fact. Am I saying that's right?  NO.  Prejudice is not okay.  Am I saying that OP should keep her gay friend from her FI's friends?  NO.  They need to deal with it and get over their prejudices/discomfort. All I'm saying is that some people here are acting like anyone who would ever possibly have a prejudice is some terrible and "ignorant" person.  If that's the case, then everyone is terrible and ignorant sometimes.
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

    <div>Monkey, I feel like you're misunderstanding.  I know I, for one, wasn't saying "ohmigod no one will ever be prejudiced ever."  What I was trying to say (and what cmig has said repeatedly, far more eloquently) is that if you DO have a prejudice, it's on YOU to gtf over it.  It's not the responsibility of the person you're prejudiced against, or the neutral third party who introduced you, or whoever else is present, to do a single flipping thing to accommodate your prejudice, and if you act on it by making the person you've decided you have a problem with uncomfortable, you ARE the asswhole in that situation and everyone else involved has a right and a duty to call you out for bad behavior, rather than making excuses for you because you're in the miitary or from the south or whatever other b/s reason "excuses" your prejudice.</div>
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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
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    @ Steph and cmgil

    I do get your points.  I agree with you what you have been saying.... it's not OP's or her gay friend's responsibility to deal with FI's friend's prejudices.  They have to deal with their own prejudices, and getting to know different people is a helpful part of that process.


    I just don't like the overall tone of some of these posts.  They seem condescending.  Instead of making the point about not keeping her friend from FI's friends, it seems that the conversation has shifted into a bludgeoning lecture about prejudices and homophobia. 

    I don't think OP or some of the other posters were defending prejudice.

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  • GardenMavenGardenMaven
    100 Comments
    edited November 2012
    Whoa this thread got really big, really fast.  As the person who answered OP's question first, I actually answered as though she were referring to a friend of mine.  My friend C is gay as well as flamboyant and he tends to make straight guys uncomfortable.  Though that has more to do with his personality than anything.  As soon as he realizes someone is uncomfortable, he does everything he can to make them MORE uncomfortable.  I doubt that is what OP's friend does, but I was using C as an example for my answer because he is flamboyant.  

    When he is just being 'normal' and not trying to make people uncomfortable, he enjoys all things girl.  In fact I have always said he is way more girly than me.  He loves shopping, women's shoes, dressing in drag, fashion, talking about sex, and talking about men.  I don't like shopping and have a limited number of shoes, none of which are high heels.  I could care less about fashion.  C doesn't have a lot of straight male friends, simply because they don't have much in common.  My experience is that most straight guys don't want to go to the mall and discuss which male actors they would sleep with if they got the chance, while trying on lingerie.  Which is why if C were in my wedding I would have him on my side and have him hang out with us ladies for the day.  He'd have a much better time!

    On the other hand I have a gay friend who literally had to tell us (his friends) he was gay, because he is very much a guy's guy.  He would have no problem hanging out with other guys as they have a lot in common.  He enjoys football, video games, sci-fi and action movies, and doing things like eating a raw Habanero pepper.  If he were in my wedding, he would stand on my side, but would prefer to hang out with the groomsmen for the day.  

    I think that is what OP was getting at.  Not that she condones some people's reactions to her friend.  It is not right for people to look down on or act differently towards someone because of their sexual orientation.  And yeah, you should say something when you see it.  For this situation, I think OP was just trying to find a way to include her friend for a one day event that was the most comfortable for everyone.  As opposed to having a diversity training on her wedding day.
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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:57d41b07-a011-42ef-9f03-5feae3a51462">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]@ Steph and cmgil I do get your points.  I agree with you what you have been saying.... it's not OP's or her gay friend's responsibility to deal with FI's friend's prejudices.  They have to deal with their own prejudices, and getting to know different people is a helpful part of that process. I just don't like the overall tone of some of these posts.  They seem condescending.  Instead of making the point about not keeping her friend from FI's friends, it seems that the conversation has shifted into a bludgeoning lecture about prejudices and homophobia.  I don't think OP or some of the other posters were defending prejudice.
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

    I don't think they were generally defending prejudice either. But, their solution to the prejudice that clearly exists, was make sure the prejudice people were comfortable or not subjected to the gay friend, so they, in turn, didn't make her gay friend uncomfortable. 

    How is that a valid solution to overcoming prejudice. Sometimes racists need to be called out, in public, about their racism. When someone tells a racist or homophobic or sexist joke, laughing politely and walking away isn't a solution to the problem. It perpetuates it and makes the offender think that behavior is ok.  Sometimes we have to be brave and actually say "Hey, racist person, that type of behavior or language is NOT ok with me".   

    It's the same thing in this situation. By isolating her gay friend or saying, ok, you can stand on the guy's side, but get ready with the girls, so my FI's friends don't act uncomfortable around you", puts the responsibility or THEIR discomfort on the gay guy. How is that even remotely ok?

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    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    My DH has a really good friend who is a lesbian.  We have hang out at each other's places, buy xmas gifts, etc.  She is awesome.  

    As much as I like her, I would have been uncomfortable with her hanging out with me getting ready for the wedding.  It's the same way I would be uncomfortable with DH's best male friend being there also.   When it came to getting dressed, I draw the line of someone who could potentially be attracted to me from something that situation.        

    I could be way off, but maybe the guys feel the same way?  It's not that they don't like gays, but they might not feel comfortable running round in boxers and getting ready with someone (male or female) who has the potential of being attracted to them.

    IDK,  I don't care if you are male or female if you like women I tend to treat you differently in certain situations than if I know you are attracted to males.  (i.e. my good gay friend is invited into my dressing room where DH's lesbian friend is not)


    Or they could just be homophobs






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:82c31a1b-82ae-423d-8c3c-14367b064468">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]Of course everyone has prejudices. The difference is in recognizing them and overcoming them. I'm sure I have a few still buried somewhere even now, but there is a big difference in saying "everyone has some sort of ignorant or stereotypical thoughts" and saying "everyone behaves differently and even rudely around the people they have prejudices against." The first is most likely universally true, the second is NOT. I honestly cannot think of a single scenario where I would be truly uncomfortable around someone for simply being different from me.
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    Stage, I think it's just so subtle that most people don't even notice it.  That's what I'm saying... I think everyone does it.  Maybe not be rude, but act differently without noticing.

    Maybe not with people of other sexual orientation or race, but what about class?  How many people probably act a little different when engaging a homeless person?  Again, most people probably don't even realize they're acting differently.

    And again, I was never saying it's ok.  You're all right... it's not okay and we do need to change it.  My point was that some here were flabbergasted that anyone would act differently.  Like the example with acting differently towards meeting someone of a different culture.  I don't think that is THAT uncommon.  A lot of people probably subconsciously do that.  It is okay?  Absolutely not.  Just saying that we all could be a bit more understanding.  But that doesn't change the fact that OP should not have to shield her FI's friends from her gay friend so they don't feel "uncomfortable"

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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited November 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:2aabd98c-a188-4fb0-81a6-e8e79f977067">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]My DH has a really good friend who is a lesbian.  We have hang out at each other's places, buy xmas gifts, etc.  She is awesome.   As much as I like her, I would have been uncomfortable with her hanging out with me getting ready for the wedding.  It's the same way I would be uncomfortable with DH's best male friend being there also.   When it came to getting dressed, I draw the line of someone who could potentially be attracted to me from something that situation.         I could be way off, but maybe the guys feel the same way?  It's not that they don't like gays, but they might not feel comfortable running round in boxers and getting ready with someone (male or female) who has the potential of being attracted to them. IDK,  I don't care if you are male or female if you like women I tend to treat you differently in certain situations than if I know you are attracted to males.  (i.e. my good gay friend is invited into my dressing room where DH's lesbian friend is not) Or they could just be homophobs
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]


    I can assure you, lesbians have seen plenty of naked women.  Gay men have seen plenty of naked men.  No one gives a shittt.    I promise, when I am in a locker room at the gym, or in a public bathroom, or whatever, I am not checking anyone out.  To indicate that just because someone is gay or lesbian, means they are going to use that opportunity to catch a peek is actually pretty offensive. 

    ETA:   And for the record, almost every time I am ever groped or had someone touch me inappropriately without my consent or stared at when I'm changing or showering in a locker room or whatever, it has always been by a straight woman. 

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    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • thejucheideathejucheidea member
    Tenth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:2aabd98c-a188-4fb0-81a6-e8e79f977067">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]My DH has a really good friend who is a lesbian.  We have hang out at each other's places, buy xmas gifts, etc.  She is awesome.   As much as I like her, I would have been uncomfortable with her hanging out with me getting ready for the wedding.  It's the same way I would be uncomfortable with DH's best male friend being there also.   When it came to getting dressed, I draw the line of someone who could potentially be attracted to me from something that situation.
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]
    Why would changing in front of a lesbian be any different than changing in front of straight woman? I... I don't understand.

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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:6679d23e-2bb9-44c7-bfd5-b75a981fd2e9">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : I can assure you, lesbians have seen plenty of nakid women.  Gay men have seen plenty of nakid men.  No one gives a shittt.    I promise, when I am in a locker room at the gym, or in a public bathroom, or whatever, I am not checking anyone out.  To indicate that just because someone is gay or lesbian, means they are going to use that opportunity to catch a peek is actually pretty offensive. 
    Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I didn't say every lesbian WANTS to take a peak, any more than every hetrosexual male wants to take a peak. </div><div>
    <div>My own comfort level doesn't discrumiate between genders.  If there if you like woman I'm less likely to allow you in the dressing room than if you like males.  That's all.</div></div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • StephBeanWed61502StephBeanWed61502 member
    2500 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:8d86dc79-f294-425f-aea6-d8e9188c5880">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Why would changing in front of a lesbian be any different than changing in front of straight woman? I... I don't understand.
    Posted by ahstillwell[/QUOTE]

    <div>Because the lesbians might be turned on by you, while no straight woman has ever looked at another woman's naked body and been turned on, ever.  Wait, what?</div><div>
    </div><div>Yeah, I don't really get it either.</div>
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  • thejucheideathejucheidea member
    Tenth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:2ce49da0-2ed6-4f26-8c0f-4f64832bd0c9">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : I didn't say every lesbian WANTS to take a peak, any more than every hetrosexual male wants to take a peak.  My own comfort level doesn't discrumiate between genders.  If there if you like woman I'm less likely to allow you in the dressing room than if you like males.  That's all.
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]
    Wow.

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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    This change in conversation begs the question... why are women uncomfortable changing in front of men?  And men in front of women?

    If it has nothing to do with attraction, then what is it?

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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:8d86dc79-f294-425f-aea6-d8e9188c5880">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Why would changing in front of a lesbian be any different than changing in front of straight woman? I... I don't understand.
    Posted by ahstillwell[/QUOTE]

    <div>First, I don't really get changed in front of people anyone. Not even in a locker room.   So there's that.  (body issues)</div><div>
    </div><div>But I treat lesibans and hetrosexual men the same in this situation.  My own comfort level.</div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:f80436b0-410b-49f1-a5aa-a405397a7db6">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Because the lesbians might be turned on by you, <strong>while no straight woman has ever looked at another woman's naked body and been turned on</strong>, ever.  Wait, what? Yeah, I don't really get it either.
    Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]

    RIGHT !!!  That's totally my point. Nudity in general doesn't "turn me on".  Nudity isn't, by itself, sexual.  If you are nude and you know, maybe rubbing all up on me, maybe then.  But, I have breasts. I have a vagina.  Seeing someone else's, unless it's coming at me in a sexual way, isn't going to make me all hot & bothered. 

    And it is ALWAYS straight women who just want to "experiment" who act inappropriately near me, and this is not exclusive to me.  Every one of my friends has had this problem with a co-worker, friend, etc.  

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    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • StephBeanWed61502StephBeanWed61502 member
    2500 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited November 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:f551cc4e-19f2-4a66-8e4b-970f2d7daabd">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]This change in conversation begs the question... why are women uncomfortable changing in front of men?  And men in front of women? If it has nothing to do with attraction, then what is it?
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>The Puritans.  17th century England was too "Girls Gone Wild" for them, so they sailed here to start a less racy country, without all those damned women flashing their damned ankles everywhere.</div><div>
    </div><div>ETA:  I'm fully aware this is not historically accurate.  That said, I think Americans generally tend to be far more prudish about things because of the whole "Puritan underpinnings" thing.</div>
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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:08b3fed0-5ea3-4c64-b4b8-ace7d7a6f37f">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : First, I don't really get changed in front of people anyone. Not even in a locker room.   So there's that.  (body issues) But I treat lesibans and hetrosexual men the same in this situation.  My own comfort level.
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    If you saw a gay guy changing in front of you, and his penis was showing, would you automatically be turned on?

    image

    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • GardenMavenGardenMaven
    100 Comments
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:2aabd98c-a188-4fb0-81a6-e8e79f977067">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]My DH has a really good friend who is a lesbian.  We have hang out at each other's places, buy xmas gifts, etc.  She is awesome.   As much as I like her, I would have been uncomfortable with her hanging out with me getting ready for the wedding.  It's the same way I would be uncomfortable with DH's best male friend being there also.   When it came to getting dressed, I draw the line of someone who could potentially be attracted to me from something that situation.         I could be way off, but maybe the guys feel the same way?  It's not that they don't like gays, but they might not feel comfortable running round in boxers and getting ready with someone (male or female) who has the potential of being attracted to them. IDK,  I don't care if you are male or female if you like women I tend to treat you differently in certain situations than if I know you are attracted to males.  (i.e. my good gay friend is invited into my dressing room where DH's lesbian friend is not) Or they could just be homophobs
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    <div>Man I did it wrong.  Here I was all attracted to my FI BEFORE seeing him naked, when apparently I should have made him strip before I decided to date him.  Cause nudity=sex.  And really, nothing other than physical attraction matters in a relationship...</div>
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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:a7f23638-fc26-404f-bd97-56b69e8ad71d">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : The Puritans.  17th century England was too "Girls Gone Wild" for them, so they sailed here to start a less racy country, without all those damned women flashing their damned ankles everywhere.
    Posted by StephBeanWed61502[/QUOTE]

    Actually the Puritans get a bad rap.  They weren't as prude as pop culture makes them out to be.

    Perhaps you were looking for the Victorians. 

    Either way... not changing in front of the other sex is not an exclusively Puritan or Victorian phenomena.

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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:3d6af09d-44d3-4a26-afc0-1344517bb5b2">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : If you saw a gay guy changing in front of you, and his penis was showing, would you automatically be turned on?
    Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

    <div>Maybe, maybe not?  But I would not be in a room with a gay man getting dressed.  </div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    Report Reply
  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:14e4afcd-f656-47e4-9370-b08ae70fef9e">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]I am absolutely straight, but if Kate Beckinsale shows up at my door tomorrow and asks, I will switch teams in a heartbeat. And I've never actually seen her naked.
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    And, I'm as queer as they come...   but, if LL COOL J shows up on my door, I'm kicking my partner out of bed.

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    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:b5a3ffbb-6004-44c7-880c-169430168c74">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Maybe, maybe not?  But I would not be in a room with a gay man getting dressed.  
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    Ok. I'm confused. you said in your earlier post, it was the sexuality that made you uncomfortable, because there was a chance they would be attracted to you.   A gay man wouldn't be attracted to you, in theory.  And, why maybe not?  You are straight?  How is it possible that a penis could be in front of you, and you NOT be attracted?

    image

    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:334fbda2-ef7a-490a-b05a-b9689a0e4859">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant: Oh, was it the Victorians who accused women who were caught wearing their hair loose, dancing, and having sex without marriage as witches and burned them at the stake?
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    Lol, no, but my point was that the puritans were actually a lot less conservative about sex than they are often stereotyped.  They were quite sexually active, both within and outside of marriage.  I wouldn't really bundle the witchhunts in with that same issue. 

    The Victorians are the ones that pursued an even more strict notion of modesty and purity.

    Again, regardless, it is still a common norm that opposite sexes don't get naked around each other.  That's why we have separate changing rooms and bathrooms.  Just wondering why that hasn't become incredibly unpopular.  Seems still pretty well accepted.

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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:c3cec585-d0d8-402f-a961-436478352ec1">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Man I did it wrong.  Here I was all attracted to my FI BEFORE seeing him naked, when apparently I should have made him strip before I decided to date him.  Cause nudity=sex.  And really, nothing other than physical attraction matters in a relationship...
    Posted by GardenMaven[/QUOTE]

    <div>Where did I say that nudity=sex?</div><div>
    </div><div>My point is I'm 99.9% sure my DH's best male friend has zero attraction to me, yet I'm not going to get dressed in front of him.   I feel the same way about lesbians.</div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:b3e4b1b9-330b-40d2-98c1-fb4df88cc8a3">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : Lol, no, but my point was that the puritans were actually a lot less conservative about sex than they are often stereotyped.  They were quite sexually active, both within and outside of marriage.  I wouldn't really bundle the witchhunts in with that same issue.  The Victorians are the ones that pursued an even more strict notion of modesty and purity. Again, regardless, it is still a common norm that opposite sexes don't get naked around each other.  That's why we have separate changing rooms and bathrooms.  Just wondering why that hasn't become incredibly unpopular.  <strong>Seems still pretty well accepted</strong>.
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

    It IS well accepted.  And one of the primary reasons it is still accepted is because of the high rate of sexual assault, which is most commonly perpetrated by men.  Men are not generally taught not to sexually assault and rape people. Instead, we put the responsibility on the women not to be too provacative.  Don't walk alone at night. Carry a weapon, etc.  Instead of saying "hey men. Don't flucking rape us!". 

    It is also very much accepted because of religion.  Religion doesn't trust people to make decisions about what to do with their own bodies.  We must seperate the genders so not to lead us into temptation.

    This is constantly a problem for my partner and I.  I am a pretty much high femme. But, my partner is very butch.  Women scream and run for cover when we walk into a public restroom or fitting room at a department store.  We have had women go and report my partner to security.  At one point, during a baseball game, security stormed into the bathroom at the Oakland Colliseum and started pushing doors open trying to find the "man in the women's bathroom".   My partner has breasts and is easily identifiable as female if you look for more than 2 seconds. But, god forbid a female have short hair and dress in masculine fashion.  Women are terrified that the men are out to get them, and our society perpetuates this fear.

    But, wow... that's another conversation completely.

    image

    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

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  • GardenMavenGardenMaven
    100 Comments
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:148254fe-b9a7-43c6-b805-b03be483e1ba">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gay Attendant : Where did I say that nudity=sex? My point is I'm 99.9% sure my DH's best male friend has zero attraction to me, yet I'm not going to get dressed in front of him.   I feel the same way about lesbians.
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    <div>So are you uncomfortable with nudity in general?  Like can you change in front of straight girls?  Just asking because you seem to be making a point that you cannot get dressed in front of someone who may see your body in a sexual way.  That would be nudity=sex.  </div>
    image
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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:522966ae-9614-4c53-8a85-88155e5eac4c">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant : It IS well accepted.  And one of the primary reasons it is still accepted is because of the high rate of sexual assault, which is most commonly perpetrated by men.  Men are not generally taught not to sexually assault and rape people. Instead, we put the responsibility on the women not to be too provacative.  Don't walk alone at night. Carry a weapon, etc.  Instead of saying "hey men. Don't flucking rape us!".  It is also very much accepted because of religion.  Religion doesn't trust people to make decisions about what to do with their own bodies.  We must seperate the genders so not to lead us into temptation. This is constantly a problem for my partner and I.  I am a pretty much high femme. But, my partner is very butch.  Women scream and run for cover when we walk into a public restroom or fitting room at a department store.  We have had women go and report my partner to security.  At one point, during a baseball game, security stormed into the bathroom at the Oakland Colliseum and started pushing doors open trying to find the "man in the women's bathroom".   My partner has breasts and is easily identifiable as female if you look for more than 2 seconds. But, god forbid a female have short hair and dress in masculine fashion.  Women are terrified that the men are out to get them, and our society perpetuates this fear. But, wow... that's another conversation completely.
    Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

    Wow.... that's crazy.  It's bizarre that women have actually reported your partner.

    I guess the issue of men being statistically more likely to assault woman than vice versa does make sense as being a good rationale.  The religious issue seems irrelevant for most people nowadays, so that doesn't seem as convincing.

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  • GardenMavenGardenMaven
    100 Comments
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:cef5c8e8-1b41-43fb-b33f-b7b3c5b2b5d7">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant: To be fair, penis may not have been the best example. They are definitely not designed for visual pleasure. But if you replace it with abs or butt, I think your point obviously still holds.
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    <div>
    </div><div>Lol I thought this too.  I prefer to see a man in boxers or boxer briefs, because penis's are ugly.  Sorry guys.  Add in the balls and it is just not what I want to be looking at.  And yes, I am straight.</div>
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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    cmg - that is crazy story.     I'm sorry you have to go through that.

    besides, The lines at the womans bathroom at a stadium are always so damn long, what dude in their right mind would bother to wait?






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • QueerFemmeQueerFemme member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited November 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:187d4f6c-afe2-43cc-b11d-fb89d7e069e5">Re: Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]cmg - that is crazy story.     I'm sorry you have to go through that. besides, The lines at the womans bathroom at a stadium are always so damn long, what dude in their right mind would bother to wait?
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    the thing is... it's crazy, but it happens ALLLL the time.  It is not an isolated incident. Normally, we go into the bathroom together, and we talk the whole way in, because sometimes, if people hear my partner's voice, they will actually look UP and see "oh, that's a female". But, the fact that we have to go through this regularly and make such a spectacle of ourselves just to pee is absolutely ridiculous.  And.. the thing is... it doesn't stop there, because of the "if she is a lesbian, she must be attracted to me !!  Omg, what if she tries to look at me while I am PEEING!" thing. 

    Sexuality doesn't automatically mean sexualization.  Just because I am queer, doesn't automatically mean I am sexualizing every female (or even most females) that I come across.
    And perpetuating that females are always ripe for sexualization is what perpetuates the "be afraid in the bathroom" scenario.

    image

    Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:

    http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/

    http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html

    http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/

    Report Reply
  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_gay-attendant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:56a41a14-38ce-4c7f-8d90-ae2656641cffPost:675c93ea-6f49-4ce7-8238-a24896dba506">Re:Gay Attendant</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:Gay Attendant: Um, I think it was where you said you don't let lesbians change with you because they are sexually attracted to women, just like straight men.
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    <div>Just because I'm fairly sure they are not, that does not mean they don't.  So I don't put myself in a position to begin with.  </div><div>
    </div><div>I don't think it's wrong for me to pick and choose who is in my private dressing room.  Just because someone is female does not mean they get an automatic invite.</div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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