FFF

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : I'm not sure if you meant it this way but when people say things like this it's like saying everyone isn't capable of becoming those things.  As cheesey as it is, you CAN be whatever you want.  It may not be easy or cheap, and you may not even be great at it but darn it all you can do it.  Saying things like this insults anyone who has overcome adversity.  I think you're a really nice person so I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but I thought you should know how those words can be viewed.
Posted by andyandhillary[/QUOTE]

This is what I was refering to that AndyandHillary said. I think there were some more. Now that I look at it, KentuckyKate made a similar statement first, but at the time I thought she was playing devil's advocate. If she wasn't, I flame that too.

Thank you for explaining the situation more, Tide.

Re: VA hospitals - they have electronic records that can be shared between doctors and hospitals, which make diagnosing and treating patients easier, faster and cheaper. All the hospitals work on the same system. That cannot be said of other hospitals. many of which do not have entirely electronic records. (Have you ever had to have your medical records scanned and mailed to a new doctor?) Many doctors very much envy the VA record and diagnostic system. Yes, I know this is one of the very few instances of the government actually being efficient.

Moneypenny424

Aw man, sorry I'm so late to FFF.  Clearly, I'm running on CPT.

I say CPT regularly.  A lot of my other non-white friends say it too, as many brown folks have this cultural stereotype.  I don't get up in arms about this one, though I guess if someone I'd never spoken to before said it to me, I'd be surprised by it.

I agree with Nuggs that I'd rather just have people ask me about things they're curious about.  I'm just going to have a big movie night here and invite everyone over to watch "Good Hair."

kkchisholm

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:c152efb4-f518-4492-aac6-84f6fb28145e">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF :  For example, in downtown DC, there are very few chain grocery stores.  Many of the stores are upper end boutique shops, 7-11s or are small mom-and-pop stores.  All of which are higher priced than a typical suburban grocery store. Also, they are spread out, so it's difficult for people with limited incomes to get to.  If someone doesn't own a car, it means taking public transportation to get to a grocery store or walking down to the local 7-11. There's actually a law that prevents large stores like SuperWalmarts inside of the DC beltway.   
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]
 
yes.

Bubbalub

Frozen veggies aren't as expensive as fresh and taste better than canned. All you have to do is pour them in boiling water. I think a lot of the unhealthy eating in many parts of the country are just as much cultural or family-based as they are economically-based. If you and everyone you know grows up on fried, fatty foods, oversize portions and few veggies and fruits then it's hard to get out of that mindset on eating.

J&K10910

I jsut want to say that I'm a firm believer in pulling oneself up by the bootstraps.  Can you grow up on the streets/on welfare/whatever and graduate from Harvard law school?  Sure.  Is it likely?  Heck no.  IMO, it's more likely to be possible by an extended process.  Your grandma raised mom on the street, picking through garbage.  Mom raises you on welfare.  Since you get a little more, a few more opportunities, you get a job at McDonalds straight out of high school.  You're slightly better able to provide for your family, so your child ends up a McDonalds manager.  They're slightly better able to provide for their family, so their child goes to college.  KWIM?  Are there roadblocks if you're economically advantaged?  Absolutely.  Can they be overcome?  Yes, to an extent.  Does it take a shitload of hard work?  YES. 

That's all.

mandybear7

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:a5512f02-0e29-43c6-84f6-635b1f3dce86">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : What the hell kind of inner cities have you lived in? People still buy groceries.
Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

Well, not to oversimplify as there are exceptions, but it is difficult for many people in Chicago to buy groceries.

1. Groceries in the city are more expensive for everyone. I pay $3.50 for a gallon of milk, and my mom (who lives 40 minutes away) pays $2.50.

2. Many people rely on public transportation, which in many areas does not run 24/7. They do not have cars. Many people even save up money to take taxis to go get groceries.

3. In some of the poorest areas of the city, groceries are bought at food store/liquor store combinations. There are no chain grocery stores. Healthy options are possible (canned veggies are better than no veggies), but few and far between.

JessAndTrav

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:42f51451-d4e7-4a0e-9abb-060c6d4e25c8">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]1 dollar on every item is a huge difference. I wont pay that.
Posted by kkchisholm[/QUOTE]

You've got 3 ingredients here: bread, pb & jelly.

For about $.50 more on each item, you can go without the preservatives and chemicals and have a much healthier version.

I really bought a jar of generic PB the other day (it wasn't for me) and was shocked that it was $1.69, and that the natural PB as only $2.09.

Is it cheaper to eat the unhealthier version of everything? Duh. Of course it is, and I do think that to "fix" obesity in America, changing that would be a great solution.

But you can't say that it's ALWAYS too expensive to eat healthier. It's all in what you choose and being a smart shopper.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:a5512f02-0e29-43c6-84f6-635b1f3dce86">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : What the hell kind of inner cities have you lived in? People still buy groceries.
Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

Actually, this is a problem in Los Angeles, which is quite spread out, sometimes without the best public transit. South Central Los Angeles has few grocery stores, but lots of fast food, basically no farmer's markets (in a place that usually has year-round farmer's markets, 2 of which are within 2 miles of my house) and few other restaurants. The city council has been trying to put a moratorium on new fast food places opening in certain areas because of the health issues in the surrounding community.

It's also about perception. A lot of people think the dollar menu is cheaper than what they can make at home. Especially with the stuff you buy at 7-11 or the few grocery stores which are somewhat overpriced due to lack of competition.

opalsky007

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:c152efb4-f518-4492-aac6-84f6fb28145e">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF :  For example, in downtown DC, there are very few chain grocery stores.  Many of the stores are upper end boutique shops, 7-11s or are small mom-and-pop stores.  All of which are higher priced than a typical suburban grocery store. Also, they are spread out, so it's difficult for people with limited incomes to get to.  If someone doesn't own a car, it means taking public transportation to get to a grocery store or walking down to the local 7-11. There's actually a law that prevents large stores like SuperWalmarts inside of the DC beltway.   
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]

True, and unfortunate, but I still doubt that the majority eat every meal at McD's. I guess Boston is more fortunate in that we do have large grocery stores in the city, and since the city is so compact, taking public transit is less of a big deal.

JessAndTrav

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:b048653c-dcb0-48d5-bcb7-d7806d0eacfd">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]I jsut want to say that I'm a firm believer in pulling oneself up by the bootstraps.  Can you grow up on the streets/on welfare/whatever and graduate from Harvard law school?  Sure.  Is it likely?  Heck no.  IMO, it's more likely to be possible by an extended process.  Your grandma raised mom on the street, picking through garbage.  Mom raises you on welfare.  Since you get a little more, a few more opportunities, you get a job at McDonalds straight out of high school.  You're slightly better able to provide for your family, so your child ends up a McDonalds manager.  They're slightly better able to provide for their family, so their child goes to college.  KWIM?  Are there roadblocks if you're economically advantaged?  Absolutely.  Can they be overcome?  Yes, to an extent.  Does it take a shitload of hard work?  YES.  That's all.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

::applauds::

smokeybailey

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:a5512f02-0e29-43c6-84f6-635b1f3dce86">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : What the hell kind of inner cities have you lived in? People still buy groceries.
Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

Seriously?  I can tell you that when we were at the coliseum in the middle of the "inner city" of LA, we could not find a grocery store within walking distance.  My BF and our friend hitched a ride with someone to a walmart (I think) that was not close.  Also, here in Long Beach, the stores in the sh!tty parts of town don't offer the same foods as the stores in the other areas.

So yes, some people have to buy their groceries at a convenience store or they eat off the McDonalds' dollar menu for every menu. 

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

*golf claps* for J&K.

A kid who goes to a private school in Manhattan or someone at a public vocational school in the Bronx. Who is more likely to be successful (based on education and income, not a feeling of self-satisfaction)?

I also know people of whom you speak. Children of immigrants who work as asst. Starbucks managers, have health care (cause Starbucks is good about that), work full time, and their parents are REALLY proud of their accomplishment. It IS a big deal to them.

opalsky007

Hmm, okay. Thanks for sharing, everyone. Yeesh, between this and the state of school lunches it's a wonder our kids make it to adulthood.

JessAndTrav

I've spent some significant time in the inner city areas of New Orleans, and I will agree that it is difficult to find a full blown grocery store that's nearby. Most of them were what you see in small-towns in the movies.

And for that, I do agree that eating healthier would be far more difficult, but I think that the people that live in areas like that are going to stock up on ramen noodles before they spend their money at McDonalds. Ramen makes about 5-10 meals for every dollar.

Of course, Ramen is incredibly unhealthy, but probably a smidge healthier than McDonald's.

luckyme502

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:9311f5e6-af4e-4604-b79d-280f1e757edf">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]. Re: VA hospitals - they have electronic records that can be shared between doctors and hospitals, which make diagnosing and treating patients easier, faster and cheaper. All the hospitals work on the same system. That cannot be said of other hospitals. many of which do not have entirely electronic records. (Have you ever had to have your medical records scanned and mailed to a new doctor?) Many doctors very much envy the VA record and diagnostic system. Yes, I know this is one of the very few instances of the government actually being efficient.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

And do you know how much the electronic medical records system costs?  Depending on the size of the practice or hospital, hundreds of thousands to millions.  We implemented one at my old practice.  Plus, there are licensing fees and upgrade fees and maintenance  fees.  The government has the money to pay for it, private practices and hospitals don't always have the money.  Then if they spend that money to upgrade their system, everyone complains about the rising cost of health care.

smokeybailey

Also-a $0.40 difference may not mean much to you but if I have only $20 to spend on groceries, I can spend that money on a yogurt or something. 

I have been there.  I have bought the $0.89 individual pizzas and ate them for dinner every night.  I can get a nicer loaf of bread or I can get cheap white bread and a pizza.  Whole grains be damned.  I am getting the pizza; it's dinner.

By the way, last night when I was in 7-11 buying ridiculously expensive dry cat food, a homeless (I am guessing) man came in with $2 and bought a giant cup-o-soup.  I bet he isn't upgrading to natural peanut butter either.

ExpatPumpkin

Regarding the healthy eating debate, I remembered studying "food deserts" in sociology classes:

"In some urban areas, grocery stores have withdrawn alongside residents that have fled to the suburbs (see urban sprawl). Low income earners and senior citizens who remain find healthy foods either unavailable or inaccessible as a result of high prices and/or unreachable locations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

tenofcups4me

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:a5512f02-0e29-43c6-84f6-635b1f3dce86">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : What the hell kind of inner cities have you lived in? People still buy groceries.
Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

It's actually pretty well known that groceries are difficult to come by in many cities. In the city I just lived in there was exactly one grocery store in the whole midtown region of the city. And it was disgusting -- I would buy canned goods there on occasion if I absolutely had to, but certainly not milk, cheese, meat, or anything else like that. Besides that, there were a few mom and pop corner stores where you could get eggs, milk, cheese, etc. but at about double the price of a grocery store, and there was no meat or other staples.

To get to a "real" grocery store, you had to drive. Not a problem for us, but a problem for some others in the area. And this wasn't even a "poor" neighborhood -- just a regular city neighborhood with a mix of families, couples, singles, yuppies and poor people.   

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Yeah, Lucky, but my point wasn't the cost. It's that the system works well. Of course it's expensive - but the VA hospitals are a vast network, and therefore the cost, spread out, is more efficiently absorbed.

Moneypenny424

I think the two take-away messages here are:

1.  Don't go to law school.  Harvard or not, none of us have jobs.

2.  Ladies on the Knot have spent lots of time in inner city grocery stores

Organic food is always more expensive.  I'm not going to judge anyone who doesn't want to spend $2 more for organic chocolate chips or something.  The more important thing is for people to be eating healthy foods in general.  A little pesticide never hurt anyone.

kkchisholm

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:2b43245a-a51e-4786-8e15-cb744e7cadaf">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : You've got 3 ingredients here: bread, pb & jelly. For about $.50 more on each item, you can go without the preservatives and chemicals and have a much healthier version. I really bought a jar of generic PB the other day (it wasn't for me) and was shocked that it was $1.69, and that the natural PB as only $2.09. Is it cheaper to eat the unhealthier version of everything? Duh. Of course it is, and I do think that to "fix" obesity in America, changing that would be a great solution. But you can't say that it's ALWAYS too expensive to eat healthier. It's all in what you choose and being a smart shopper.
Posted by JessAndTrav[/QUOTE]

I don't think you are understanding... that 40 cents is LITERALLY too expensive for me... I don't have choices to buy natural foods because I don't have the cash to give to the cashier at the checkout.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:a858b969-a3b5-44d7-9ff7-b6da6c10550d">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]By the way, last night when I was in 7-11 buying ridiculously expensive dry cat food, a homeless (I am guessing) man came in with $2 and bought a giant cup-o-soup.  I bet he isn't upgrading to natural peanut butter either.
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]

I was at one of the gourmet food trucks on Friday, where they sell $6 chili cheese fries. Some homeless guy came up and said, "Can I get a taco for a dollar?" They said, "Um, we don't have tacos," but then they gave him some fries. It was sweet, funny, and sad at the same time.

lilgina64

FFS are we really arguing over PBJs and groceries?

beatlesgirl25

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:cb3d1921-749f-4918-999b-1742e6f3e22f">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]I think the two take-away messages here are: 1.  Don't go to law school.  Harvard or not, none of us have jobs. 2.  Ladies on the Knot have spent lots of time in inner city grocery stores :) Organic food is always more expensive.  I'm not going to judge anyone who doesn't want to spend $2 more for organic chocolate chips or something.  The more important thing is for people to be eating healthy foods in general.  A little pesticide never hurt anyone.
Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]

This made me giggle. (Not the jobless part, that sucks).

Moneypenny424

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:d734c2a0-bceb-4200-bb55-62b124b6e097">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]FFS are we really arguing over PBJs and groceries?
Posted by lilgina64[/QUOTE]

I know.  I've had to skip over most of the posts because it isn't an escape from my job as a healthcare lawyer to be discussing public health and health reform on the Knot.

I'm flaming everyone for making FFF too serious today.  **going to perezhilton for entertainment**

opalsky007

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:63d96451-6acb-4649-aa1a-cef2d4184ec6">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : This made me giggle. (Not the jobless part, that sucks).
Posted by beatlesgirl25[/QUOTE]

Me too.

mandybear7

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:63d96451-6acb-4649-aa1a-cef2d4184ec6">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : This made me giggle. (Not the jobless part, that sucks).
Posted by beatlesgirl25[/QUOTE]


Agreed. But this FFF is an example of why I love that this is an international board.

luckyme502

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:c74efb4d-90a1-45d5-918f-051f4103f02b">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah, Lucky, but my point wasn't the cost. It's that the system works well. Of course it's expensive - but the VA hospitals are a vast network, and therefore the cost, spread out, is more efficiently absorbed.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]


But my point was that the individual VA hospitals don't have to absorb the cost at all.  In fact, VA hospitals don't have to even break even.  They can lose money as they are government funded.  And, the bigger the network of hospitals the cost to purchase and upkeep become greater.  It isn't more efficiently absorbed, as the cost just increases.  I think electronic medical records are a great thing, but they do increase the cost of health care, whether it is the government incurring the cost or the private sector. 

btrflykate1230

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-24?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:9bd9d026-06c1-4f5f-b2d1-efa516f01de7Post:4d14b321-47ca-44c2-8ea1-87bd3adbd6e5">Re: FFF</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF : It's actually pretty well known that groceries are difficult to come by in many cities. In the city I just lived in there was exactly one grocery store in the whole midtown region of the city. And it was disgusting -- I would buy canned goods there on occasion if I absolutely had to, but certainly not milk, cheese, meat, or anything else like that. Besides that, there were a few mom and pop corner stores where you could get eggs, milk, cheese, etc. but at about double the price of a grocery store, and there was no meat or other staples. To get to a "real" grocery store, you had to drive. Not a problem for us, but a problem for some others in the area<strong>. And this wasn't even a "poor" neighborhood -- just a regular city neighborhood with a mix of families, couples, singles, yuppies and poor people</strong>.   
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]<div>
<div>I used to live in the Fenway area when I went to college and there was a Shaw's not even 2 blocks away from where I lived. There was a full blown Shaw's in Copley Square, a Whole Foods by the Symphony T-Station... you get the idea. I guess I never realized that Boston is VERY different from other cities.

</div></div>

smokeybailey

I flame Moneypenny for looking at me so suggestively over her shoulder.  It makes me feel all squishy.