Black tie wedding

chaiteachick

We are planning on having a black tie wedding. I figured that saying anything about this on invitations, etc. would be a faux pas, but then I kept reading here that a black tie wedding is the exception to the rule. 

If this is indeed so, how would we go about putting it in the invitation, etc? In the case of a black tie wedding, is it considered in bad taste to NOT say it on the invitation? 

Also... any other etiquette advice, as pertains to black tie? It's been such a long time since I've been to one; it's hard for me to remember the finer etiquette details that may or may not have been brought up. 

Many thanks in advance!  

imimbles

For black tie, it's OK to put "Black Tie" on the lower left or right hand corner of the invitation, if I recall correctly.

Re: other etiquette advice - you must host a very nice reception (not trying to imply you wouldn't). Full open bar, swanky location etc. Men (well, ideally) will all wear tuxedos and women will all wear evening gowns... very swanky

tammym1001

Also, black tie must be after 6:00 pm. So if your recpetion is earlier than that it's not appropriate to have black tie.

Kate61487

OliveOilsMom

I would also add that if your crowd is not used to Black Tie events, they may not be familiar with the type of dress required for a Black Tie wedding.

STARMOON44

Make sure you're following the rules. If it's black tie, the groom and groomsmen need to be wearing black tie. Not a colored tie, fancy vest, shirt that matches the bridesmaids. And those bridesmaids, they need to be in long dresses. You need to plan an event where this attire is appropriate. No lawn games, out door ceremony up a hill in hot sun, not early in the day.

KDM323

What the PP said.  If you're going to put Black Tie on the invitations and expect your guests to wear tuxedos...you really have to be having a truly black tie event.

southernbelle0915

If you note it on the invitations, it should be in the lower right (not the lower left) of your information insert. You should write "Black tie" not "Black Tie" and choose heavy card stock stationary with embellishments and/or hire a calligrapher. 

It's a recent development that this is the only exception to putting dress code on an invitation and only because black/white tie are much more uncommon these days. There was a time when the formality of the invitation, time of the party, etc. was a very clear indication and formality of dress was understood. Not so these days, which is why this has become socially acceptable to indicate it on your invitation. 

As for aspects of the party itself, Stage had good suggestions. In other words, it's really not ok to indicate black tie and then have a budget wedding reception. Black/White tie is an "all in" kind of thing. 

ETA: If you're uncomfortable indicating on your invitations (traditionally, it is faux pas), spread the word by word of mouth but don't be surprised if someone doesn't get the memo.

imimbles

southernbelle0915 said:

If you note it on the invitations, it should be in the lower right (not the lower left) of your information insert. You should write "Black tie" not "Black Tie" and choose heavy card stock stationary with embellishments and/or hire a calligrapher. 

 

Thanks for mentioning those, I didn't know that

chaiteachick

So basically, it has to be like my mom's Christmas, New Year's, and Easter dinners, but for 200 people. Sounds doable to me!  

In Europe, actually, many people, including the royals, do have black tie weddings in the morning. There seems to be some confusion over whether or not this actually should be called "white tie," but the way I was brought up, "white tie" meant "extravagant ballgown," while "black tie" meant "very nice, long or cocktail-length dress." Of course, everything is muddled now, since I was brought up the royal European way, but in the USA, and I have since moved to a place where people usually behave like barbarians. I've gotten so confused! 

What do you all say, pertaining to black tie vs. white tie? 

chaiteachick

RetreadBride said:

Is your crowd accustomed to black tie events?  Do most of the guests in your social circle own formalwear?  Expect a high number of declines if they don't.

Remember, Black Tie means evening gowns for ladies and tuxedos for men.  The expense of tux rental, wedding gift and travel expenses (if necessary) to your wedding may be too much for some your guests.

My mother's side of the family most certainly is used to both black and white tie, and I'd say that most in my dad's side has it figured out by now, too. There are a few guests about whom I'm not sure, but overall, everyone should be fine. 

I'm slightly worried about the few Israelis who are coming, but I think they're actually hoping that I will inform them of what type of clothes to wear anyway, since they have no idea about American weddings. 

My mom is actually a huge vat of information, pertaining to black tie, white tie, etc., but I know that at least a few of her ideas are outdated, so I really wanted to double-check, and see what has changed, if anything, in recent years. It looks like there have been a few minor changes, but nothing extremely significant. 

You all are awesome. Thanks so much for helping me out !  

[Deleted User]

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

chaiteachick

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

AllieBear725

I want to see your wedding photos after!

winelover123

wow! I'd like to see picture too!

chaiteachick

xD ! You ladies are so sweet! Of course I'll be posting wedding photos. It's going to be in about a year and a half, though. (We're thinking Sept. or Oct. 2014.) 

[Deleted User]

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

That sounds intense! I want to be a (horribly underdressed) guest at one of these! I'd bust out the best dress I had (which still wouldn't be black tie!)

chaiteachick

LMc0322 said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

That sounds intense! I want to be a (horribly underdressed) guest at one of these! I'd bust out the best dress I had (which still wouldn't be black tie!)

It really sounds a bit more grandiose than it actually is, but yes, this is definitely why I had a hard time adjusting, when I moved out of their house and into "the real world." (Also probably why I had such a rough time on TK the first time I was engaged, to tell the truth. x-P )

I mean, I guess not everyone's dad wears his kilt all Christmas... something I'm still kind of getting used to. We didn't wear gowns, though, more like cocktail-length, because that's what we were brought up to do for black-tie dinners at home. In our circle, white-tie would have been long gowns, and a bit over-the-top for a family dinner, holiday or not!

Still wondering what all of you think about the black tie vs. white tie thing, by the way... if anyone has an opinion at all. 

If the general consensus is that "white tie" is basically a "black tie before 6 pm," maybe we'll go with that wording instead. From what I've read, it seems to vary, terribly, based on region/country/generation, and I'd rather not have anyone confused, more for their sakes than my own. I'm really not sure what to do. 

StPaul0102

LMc0322 said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

That sounds intense! I want to be a (horribly underdressed) guest at one of these! I'd bust out the best dress I had (which still wouldn't be black tie!)

My family usually serves jell-o fluff and baked beans on bunny shaped paper plates for Easter. Now I kind of want to show up in a ball gown next year. 

PrettyGirlLost

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

I want to see pics of these holiday dinners!

PrettyGirlLost

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

Still wondering what all of you think about the black tie vs. white tie thing, by the way... if anyone has an opinion at all. 

If the general consensus is that "white tie" is basically a "black tie before 6 pm," maybe we'll go with that wording instead. From what I've read, it seems to vary, terribly, based on region/country/generation, and I'd rather not have anyone confused, more for their sakes than my own. I'm really not sure what to do. 

I was under the impression that white tie is the most formal of all, and was held in the mornings.

southernbelle0915

Historically, black tie was informal dinner attire and white tie was formal dinner attire. After WWII (more or less the end of aristocracy of that time), it became "special evening" wear and black tie was more formal dinner wear. Today that same idea is echoed and it's more like black tie is formal and white tie is ultra formal.

The rules for men are REALLY strict for both black tie and white tie - right down to colors and materials that are acceptable. The reason is because this level of formality was developed so that men provided a uniform, formal backdrop and the women could "see and be seen" in family jewels, expensive gowns, etc. Due to that, women have a lot more wiggle room here. Some fashion experts (e.g. Tim Gunn) think it's fine to wear cocktail length dresses to black tie events - as long as they're formal. Cocktail length is NOT ok for white tie as it often requires extremely formal dress with a wide skirt (comes from when ladies wore ball gowns with hoops). 

Sounds like your mom's side and your dad's side will be fine with black tie, but what about your FI's family? Are they comfortable with a black tie affair? If they're not and come from more moderate means, you might consider trying to offset the cost of the event for them by paying for their hotel, transportation, etc. (if you're dead set on black tie).

AddieCake

Would you be opposed to letting a Muppet Overlord come to this wedding?

chaiteachick

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

I want to see pics of these holiday dinners!

Aww, but all the photos I have are of us wearing the stupid paper crowns from the Christmas crackers... I'm not sharing those! xD 

As for the white tie... my mom told me that basically, weddings in the middle of the week, and in the morning, are the most formal of all because it requires someone to take a day off of work and so on, and that largely constitutes the difference between white-tie and black-tie. I just wasn't sure if this still applies in the USA or not... maybe it does. Hm. The ironic thing is that, generally, a white suit jacket is usually worn as a LESS-formal alternative to the post-6 PM tux, as far as I know. 

Heh. Whatever. For all of the people in my family who do know how to dress for this type of wedding, there are actually some people I invited who I'll just be impressed with if they don't show up in jeans, "whatever tie" on the invitation and all. Whatever--I love them and want them there, clothing secondary (but still hoped for), gift completely optional. x-P

bunni727

So basically, it has to be like my mom's Christmas, New Year's, and Easter dinners, but for 200 people. Sounds doable to me!  

In Europe, actually, many people, including the royals, do have black tie weddings in the morning. There seems to be some confusion over whether or not this actually should be called "white tie," but the way I was brought up, "white tie" meant "extravagant ballgown," while "black tie" meant "very nice, long or cocktail-length dress." Of course, everything is muddled now, since I was brought up the royal European way, but in the USA, and I have since moved to a place where people usually behave like barbarians. I've gotten so confused! 

What do you all say, pertaining to black tie vs. white tie? 

Well, I'm one of those barbarians, but I'll play. 

Black tie is exactly as Stage described, a lavish evening event with tuxes for men and long formal gowns for women. White tie is a step above even that, and also occurs in the evening. I think the morning coat is most appropriate for very formal daytime events.  

STARMOON44

Whoa. White tie is NOT black tie before six, and European royals don't have black tie weddings before 6!

White tie- gowns and tiaras, dress uniforms, tails. Only after 6.

Black tie- long dresses, tuxes, after 6. Commonly permits fancy shorter dresses on women but this is a modern interpretation.

Will and Kate's wedding- not black tie! The most formal morning option is the morning coat. The royal couple gave people the option of dressing down in a "lounge suit"- what in the US is just a regular men's suit.

This really doesn't vary by region. Some people just get it wrong.

PrettyGirlLost

Rachel-Elise said:

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

I want to see pics of these holiday dinners!

Aww, but all the photos I have are of us wearing the stupid paper crowns from the Christmas crackers... I'm not sharing those! xD 

As for the white tie... my mom told me that basically, weddings in the middle of the week, and in the morning, are the most formal of all because it requires someone to take a day off of work and so on, and that largely constitutes the difference between white-tie and black-tie. I just wasn't sure if this still applies in the USA or not... maybe it does. Hm. The ironic thing is that, generally, a white suit jacket is usually worn as a LESS-formal alternative to the post-6 PM tux, as far as I know. 

Heh. Whatever. For all of the people in my family who do know how to dress for this type of wedding, there are actually some people I invited who I'll just be impressed with if they don't show up in jeans, "whatever tie" on the invitation and all. Whatever--I love them and want them there, clothing secondary (but still hoped for), gift completely optional. x-P

I don't think most people in the US have a true black tie or white tie wedding, other than heads of state and the rich and famous.

chaiteachick

I was brought up the German way, not the English way, so perhaps that accounts for the issue between "white tie" and "morning jacket." Linguistic or cultural difference? Honest mistake due to a few generations having passed? Who knows? Oh, well. At least we're getting it straightened out now! 

I originally figured that white tie was with gowns, tiaras, blah blah.... then I heard this, then I heard that, and then my mom heard this and that.... who knows anymore? LOL! I don't remember personally attending any TRULY white-tie events, just black-tie. 

What would one call an otherwise-black-tie event before 6 pm, then? 

chaiteachick

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

I want to see pics of these holiday dinners!

Aww, but all the photos I have are of us wearing the stupid paper crowns from the Christmas crackers... I'm not sharing those! xD 

As for the white tie... my mom told me that basically, weddings in the middle of the week, and in the morning, are the most formal of all because it requires someone to take a day off of work and so on, and that largely constitutes the difference between white-tie and black-tie. I just wasn't sure if this still applies in the USA or not... maybe it does. Hm. The ironic thing is that, generally, a white suit jacket is usually worn as a LESS-formal alternative to the post-6 PM tux, as far as I know. 

Heh. Whatever. For all of the people in my family who do know how to dress for this type of wedding, there are actually some people I invited who I'll just be impressed with if they don't show up in jeans, "whatever tie" on the invitation and all. Whatever--I love them and want them there, clothing secondary (but still hoped for), gift completely optional. x-P

I don't think most people in the US have a true black tie or white tie wedding, other than heads of state and the rich and famous.

Why not? Is it a money thing, or a "station" thing? (I can't imagine it being the latter, since, well, it's the land of the free, but you know. ) 

[Deleted User]

Yeah I had originally skimmed over the "barbarians" part.  That's no way to make friends.

STARMOON44

One would call it formal. And one wouldn't write anything on the invitations, because one's social circle would know how to interpret the invitations correctly.