Black tie wedding

chaiteachick

STARMOON44 said:

One would call it formal. And one wouldn't write anything on the invitations, because one's social circle would know how to interpret the invitations correctly.

AddieCake

You don't have a wedding planner who knows the answers to all this?

MuppetFan

duplicate.

MuppetFan

AddieL73 said:

Would you be opposed to letting a Muppet Overlord come to this wedding?

  Yes, would you be opposed?

PrettyGirlLost

Rachel-Elise said:

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

I want to see pics of these holiday dinners!

Aww, but all the photos I have are of us wearing the stupid paper crowns from the Christmas crackers... I'm not sharing those! xD 

As for the white tie... my mom told me that basically, weddings in the middle of the week, and in the morning, are the most formal of all because it requires someone to take a day off of work and so on, and that largely constitutes the difference between white-tie and black-tie. I just wasn't sure if this still applies in the USA or not... maybe it does. Hm. The ironic thing is that, generally, a white suit jacket is usually worn as a LESS-formal alternative to the post-6 PM tux, as far as I know. 

Heh. Whatever. For all of the people in my family who do know how to dress for this type of wedding, there are actually some people I invited who I'll just be impressed with if they don't show up in jeans, "whatever tie" on the invitation and all. Whatever--I love them and want them there, clothing secondary (but still hoped for), gift completely optional. x-P

I don't think most people in the US have a true black tie or white tie wedding, other than heads of state and the rich and famous.

Why not? Is it a money thing, or a "station" thing? (I can't imagine it being the latter, since, well, it's the land of the free, but you know. ) 

  Definitely a $$$$$$$$$$ thing.  I was raised in a middle to upper middle class family, and have never attended a black tie wedding. . . so maybe we are just slumming it, but as I'm planning my wedding now and becoming familiar with the costs associated, I really don't think most people could afford to meet the requirements of those formal events.  And the costs in  my area are much lower than for people living in NYC, Boston, Seattle, etc.

chaiteachick

LMc0322 said:

Yeah I had originally skimmed over the "barbarians" part.  That's no way to make friends.

Well, when they refer to THEMSELVES in such a manner, genuinely proudly, and exemplify it so beautifully, it's almost insulting to ignore how they prefer to refer to themselves. 

People in Tel Aviv are astoundingly different than the USA, Canada, or Europe. Many (not all) would be quite offended if they were referred to as having good manners, because around here, manners are seen as "old fashioned." Unfortunately, I'm not exaggerating. Whatever; it doesn't make them any "less"--just... from a different culture. I've lived here long enough that it did actually slip my mind that, to some people, referring to them in this way would obviously come across as callous. "My bad." Sorry! 

Anyway, @RetreadBride, FI was also wondering the same thing, referring to the tuxes, I mean. He's thinking of buying, since he doesn't have one yet. 

winelover123

Rachel-Elise said:

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

cmsciulli said:

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Your mother has a valet, passed appetizers, and everyone dresses in tuxedos and ballgowns for her Easter dinner?

LOL! Close. I guess her Easter dinner would be termed more as "Black tie-optional."

I want to see pics of these holiday dinners!

Aww, but all the photos I have are of us wearing the stupid paper crowns from the Christmas crackers... I'm not sharing those! xD 

As for the white tie... my mom told me that basically, weddings in the middle of the week, and in the morning, are the most formal of all because it requires someone to take a day off of work and so on, and that largely constitutes the difference between white-tie and black-tie. I just wasn't sure if this still applies in the USA or not... maybe it does. Hm. The ironic thing is that, generally, a white suit jacket is usually worn as a LESS-formal alternative to the post-6 PM tux, as far as I know. 

Heh. Whatever. For all of the people in my family who do know how to dress for this type of wedding, there are actually some people I invited who I'll just be impressed with if they don't show up in jeans, "whatever tie" on the invitation and all. Whatever--I love them and want them there, clothing secondary (but still hoped for), gift completely optional. x-P

I don't think most people in the US have a true black tie or white tie wedding, other than heads of state and the rich and famous.

Why not? Is it a money thing, or a "station" thing? (I can't imagine it being the latter, since, well, it's the land of the free, but you know. ) 

It's a money thing. Though I imagine a white tie wedding is a station thing - like, the president or someone famous could have a white tie wedding. I know only a few people (friends of friends) who have had true black tie weddings. They are either pretty well off or just save up for a long time for it. I've never attended one though. But they sound like fun!

ETA: Not saying that someone not famous couldn't have a white tie wedding - just saying I'd personally expect it more from someone who is in the public eye.

chaiteachick

We considered a wedding planner, but decided that we don't want one; we'd rather do it ourselves. 

cmsciulli, I wouldn't call that "slumming it" at all. 

Not sure about the muppet thing, but he's super-cute. 

PrettyGirlLost

I'd love to be invited to a white tie and a black tie event. . . I think it would be awesome!

STARMOON44

I think it's also a class thing. I often attend weddings that check all the black tie boxes, but they're never officially black tie because it's seen as showy.

[Deleted User]

Rachel-Elise said:

LMc0322 said:

Yeah I had originally skimmed over the "barbarians" part.  That's no way to make friends.

Well, when they refer to THEMSELVES in such a manner, genuinely proudly, and exemplify it so beautifully, it's almost insulting to ignore how they prefer to refer to themselves. 

People in Tel Aviv are astoundingly different than the USA, Canada, or Europe. Many (not all) would be quite offended if they were referred to as having good manners, because around here, manners are seen as "old fashioned." Unfortunately, I'm not exaggerating. Whatever; it doesn't make them any "less"--just... from a different culture. I've lived here long enough that it did actually slip my mind that, to some people, referring to them in this way would obviously come across as callous. "My bad." Sorry! 

Anyway, @RetreadBride, FI was also wondering the same thing, referring to the tuxes, I mean. He's thinking of buying, since he doesn't have one yet. 

Oh no need to apologize. I assumed you live in the southern US. ZING! (and kidding, people. I live in Pittsburgh.  We make up words and put french fries on salads.  If that's not civilized, I DON'T WANT TO BE.)

MuppetFan

    
Having celebrity-royalty would elevate your event.

chaiteachick

I was probably supposed to be born in the southern US--not gonna lie. 

Anyway, we just found that we were going in the direction of black tie by default, based on what we like, so we figured we might as well "do it right." We want to do it in the morning, though, and then I got all the false info for white tie and so on..... anyway, it all depends. If FI doesn't want to wear a tux, and if dad would rather wear a suit than his dressy kilt outfit or a rented tux (because, of course, his kilt is in lieu of a tux), we'll just say black tie optional, if anyone asks. Yes, we're picky on our location, etc., anyway, but we're not exactly stuck on people wearing tuxes if they don't want. 

At least we have a while to figure it out. I assume we'll make the final decision, regarding formality, after we choose a venue and catering that works for us. If that means semi-formal, so be it. 

STARMOON44

If you're doing it in the morning, no one should be wearing a tux. It's inappropriate. If there is one takeaway from this question, let that be it.

STARMOON44

I disagree with Retread. Business suits are often seen at black tie fundraisers, but that doesn't make them appropriate. A social black tie event require a tux (or dress uniform or other national formal attire). If you're wearing a suit, you aren't following the dress code. If that's what commonly happens in your social circle, then all of you are getting it wrong.

AddieCake

Eye to Eye, your Sparkliness! 

chaiteachick

KindaSparkly said:

I'm calling shenanigans. You claim to be peripherally related to European royalty yet are unclear on formal events despite possibly attending them three times a year.  

I'm invited to a black tie wedding this fall as a college friend from a well-connected family is marrying a lovely girl from an even more well-connected family. They have had no questions about how to properly plan this thing because their families have "people" to handle all the etiquette questions. Their families' party planners plan their holidays, charity functions and weddings down to the smallest details.

You said you "decided" not to use a wedding planner.  Surely, your aristocratic family has an assistant or other hired person on retainer who does these things all the time. For families that have black tie affairs for Christmas dinner, attending an event planned by an amateur without vetted staff would simply not do.

Okay, I don't know what your problem is, but my family connections, be what they may, are NONE of your business, nor are my reasons for wanting to do it myself, without a planner. 

I simply came and asked here, because I WANTED TO. Surely it's not a problem to ask an etiquette question in an etiquette forum, regardless of whatever other options I have at my disposal. 

Why would someone do what you are suggesting, anyway? Big waste of time, if you ask me. 

calliopeia2013

RetreadBride said:

I have a closetful of evening and cocktail dresses, but my husband doesn't own a tuxedo.  He has a suit that he wears for formal weddings.  The UU church doesn't care what you wear on Sunday.

I've been looking for the sales the rental shops have when they discontinue formalwear.

How much does a new tuxedo cost?

About the same as a man's suit, actually.  And with about the same range in prices- a couple hundred for an inexpensive one, up to well into the thousands for something designer.  If you go to formal events more than about once a year, it's cheaper to just buy a moderately priced one rather than rent every time.

AddieCake

I wonder if the Muppet Overlord would bring me as his +1.  

KDM323

Something isn't adding up here.

winelover123

Rachel-Elise said:

I was probably supposed to be born in the southern US--not gonna lie. 

Anyway, we just found that we were going in the direction of black tie by default, based on what we like, so we figured we might as well "do it right." We want to do it in the morning, though, and then I got all the false info for white tie and so on..... anyway, it all depends. If FI doesn't want to wear a tux, and if dad would rather wear a suit than his dressy kilt outfit or a rented tux (because, of course, his kilt is in lieu of a tux), we'll just say black tie optional, if anyone asks. Yes, we're picky on our location, etc., anyway, but we're not exactly stuck on people wearing tuxes if they don't want. 

At least we have a while to figure it out. I assume we'll make the final decision, regarding formality, after we choose a venue and catering that works for us. If that means semi-formal, so be it. 

Black tie optional isn't really a dress category though. An event is either black tie or it is not. The same is with semi-formal - it's either formal or it's not. There's nothing wrong with just having a formal wedding where plain ol' suits would be appropriate.

If you choose not to do black tie and someone asks, you can tell them that a suit for the men or cocktail dress for the women would be appropriate. You risk confusing people if you say "semi formal" or "black tie optional."

chaiteachick

Thanks, WineLover.

PrettyGirlLost

winelover123 said:

Rachel-Elise said:

I was probably supposed to be born in the southern US--not gonna lie. 

Anyway, we just found that we were going in the direction of black tie by default, based on what we like, so we figured we might as well "do it right." We want to do it in the morning, though, and then I got all the false info for white tie and so on..... anyway, it all depends. If FI doesn't want to wear a tux, and if dad would rather wear a suit than his dressy kilt outfit or a rented tux (because, of course, his kilt is in lieu of a tux), we'll just say black tie optional, if anyone asks. Yes, we're picky on our location, etc., anyway, but we're not exactly stuck on people wearing tuxes if they don't want. 

At least we have a while to figure it out. I assume we'll make the final decision, regarding formality, after we choose a venue and catering that works for us. If that means semi-formal, so be it. 

Black tie optional isn't really a dress category though. An event is either black tie or it is not. The same is with semi-formal - it's either formal or it's not. There's nothing wrong with just having a formal wedding where plain ol' suits would be appropriate.

If you choose not to do black tie and someone asks, you can tell them that a suit for the men or cocktail dress for the women would be appropriate. You risk confusing people if you say "semi formal" or "black tie optional."


Thank you! I hate the term semi formal, ugh!

winelover123

@Rachel-Elise - you're welcome!

STARMOON44

If a couple writes black tie on an invite, and a guest shows up in a regular suit, that is rude.

Venues do not typically require black tie, since it's perfectly acceptable to have a wedding with all the bells and whistles and not dictate formal dress.

If a couple insists on black tie and does not host accordingly, they're the rude ones.

AJuliaNJ

@rachel-Elise, can I ask why you want black tie?

chaiteachick

KindaSparkly said:

Rachel-Elise said:

KindaSparkly said:

I'm calling shenanigans. You claim to be peripherally related to European royalty yet are unclear on formal events despite possibly attending them three times a year.  

I'm invited to a black tie wedding this fall as a college friend from a well-connected family is marrying a lovely girl from an even more well-connected family. They have had no questions about how to properly plan this thing because their families have "people" to handle all the etiquette questions. Their families' party planners plan their holidays, charity functions and weddings down to the smallest details.

You said you "decided" not to use a wedding planner.  Surely, your aristocratic family has an assistant or other hired person on retainer who does these things all the time. For families that have black tie affairs for Christmas dinner, attending an event planned by an amateur without vetted staff would simply not do.

Okay, I don't know what your problem is, but my family connections, be what they may, are NONE of your business, nor are my reasons for wanting to do it myself, without a planner. 

I simply came and asked here, because I WANTED TO. Surely it's not a problem to ask an etiquette question in an etiquette forum, regardless of whatever other options I have at my disposal. 

Why would someone do what you are suggesting, anyway? Big waste of time, if you ask me. 

First and foremost, I brought up your family connections because YOU commented on them and brought them into the discussion. I am simply saying that your scenario is not adding up. You say you come from a very well-to-do family and were raised like European royalty who has black tie affairs multiple times a year. However, you seemingly did not know the basics of a black tie affair. The notion of professional party planners for such events is similarly foreign to you. It just doesn't add up.

I attend BBQ's maybe 5 times a year.  It would be like me coming on here and being all "Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! So my BBQ can have cheeseburgers and guests in flip flops just like all the other BBQ's I've attended multiple times a year for my whole life?!" 

1. I brought up the way that I was brought up, not actual family connections. Those are none of this board's business. 

2. The basics are NOT foreign to me AT ALL. I was merely asking for guidance on the AMERICAN way of doing such things. They are clearly different. 

3. I am quite familiar with party planners. I have no idea where you got the impression that I'm not. I simply CHOSE to not have one, for reasons of my own that, again, are none of your business. 

In the end, this is not a productive conversation for either of us, other than that, for some reason, you apparently seem to think it's fun to provoke people. Too bad. 

chaiteachick

AndreaJulia said:

@rachel-Elise, can I ask why you want black tie?

The event that we are planning is technically black tie anyway, so we have been playing with the idea of whether to make it "officially" black tie or not. That's all. 

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a few discrepancies between the way I was brought up, and the "new" way of doing things--which I now have to consider, as, IF we end up making it officially black-tie, I need to know what those not from my family circle will consider black-tie to be. 

All in all, we just want a nice wedding, black tie or not. 

AJuliaNJ

Rachel-Elise said:

AndreaJulia said:

@rachel-Elise, can I ask why you want black tie?

The event that we are planning is technically black tie anyway, so we have been playing with the idea of whether to make it "officially" black tie or not. That's all. 

Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a few discrepancies between the way I was brought up, and the "new" way of doing things--which I now have to consider, as, IF we end up making it officially black-tie, I need to know what those not from my family circle will consider black-tie to be. 

All in all, we just want a nice wedding, black tie or not. 

I can't say I know how black tie differs from Europe to the US and I'd be concerned with an international guest list others will be equally confused. It may be easier for you to plan your wedding in the style of a black tie event, but allow guests to wear what they deem appropriate. That way no one will feel uncomfortable if they misunderstand how black tie dress is executed in your wedding country. You can still have a very upscale and gorgeous event..

STARMOON44

Ha! If we're going to be throwing around accusations of not reading real good I think there's more than one of us ready to enroll in the Derek Zoolander School