Can I request a gun-free wedding?

AllieBear725

I'm not advocating people carrying guns in the open. It's against the law for any CHL holder in my state to do that, you will be disarmed and your license will be penalized. I am simply trying to express the disconnect there seems to be about public and private property. If someone is showing off their weapon, it's absolutely against the law for a CHL holder. That's why it's called concealed handgun license. It's not something I go around advertising. I wouldn't want anyone else to know I CC because if something were to happen who do you think they are going to target first?

BangBangs39

@NYCBruin - I don't walk around naked with company or fart (I don't fart in front of anyone though, I ALWAYS excuse myself to the bathroom, idk why) but I do swear - its my home I have the right to do as I please.  If I'm cleaning my shotgun on the kitchen table and you pop over I'm not going to run to put it away for fear that it will make you uncomfortable in my home.

If your trained on the use of a firearm, and you've trained the children around, then there is no danger to leaving a firearm on the table.  I knew as a kid to not touch it, even as young as 7 (maybe even younger).  Therefore the firearm was no threat to me, Someone needs to have that firearm in hand, finger on trigger, loaded, and pointed at me for it to be dangerous, other than that, its just a paperweight.

Lastly - At whomever said those of us who clearly don't care about the safety of children... Puh-Lease... You are going on the assumption that OP isn't exaggerating, and that the "children" don't know proper handling.  I advocate strongly for teaching children how to properly handle a firearm, that is the ONLY way to prevent accidental deaths among children... you can bet your a** my kids will know how to use every firearm FI and I own ASAP.

BangBangs39

@StageManager14 - Hence why we want to know if OP has only ever seen the family members actually toss a gun out onto a table in public - or if it has only ever been in the privacy of their own home.

southernbelle0915

BangBangs39 said:

@NYCBruin - I don't walk around naked with company or fart (I don't fart in front of anyone though, I ALWAYS excuse myself to the bathroom, idk why) but I do swear - its my home I have the right to do as I please.  If I'm cleaning my shotgun on the kitchen table and you pop over I'm not going to run to put it away for fear that it will make you uncomfortable in my home.

If your trained on the use of a firearm, and you've trained the children around, then there is no danger to leaving a firearm on the table.  I knew as a kid to not touch it, even as young as 7 (maybe even younger).  Therefore the firearm was no threat to me, Someone needs to have that firearm in hand, finger on trigger, loaded, and pointed at me for it to be dangerous, other than that, its just a paperweight.

Lastly - At whomever said those of us who clearly don't care about the safety of children... Puh-Lease... You are going on the assumption that OP isn't exaggerating, and that the "children" don't know proper handling. 

You're assuming that her account of events (being the only witness here) IS an exaggeration. You have no idea. You're also assuming that the children of these people and any children who may or may not attend OP's wedding know proper handling. You cannot possibly know that.

That's the point. When you don't know, you don't assume. Any responsible gun owner should know that.

southernbelle0915

BangBangs39 said:

@NYCBruin - I don't walk around naked with company or fart (I don't fart in front of anyone though, I ALWAYS excuse myself to the bathroom, idk why) but I do swear - its my home I have the right to do as I please.  If I'm cleaning my shotgun on the kitchen table and you pop over I'm not going to run to put it away for fear that it will make you uncomfortable in my home.

If your trained on the use of a firearm, and you've trained the children around, then there is no danger to leaving a firearm on the table.  I knew as a kid to not touch it, even as young as 7 (maybe even younger).  Therefore the firearm was no threat to me, Someone needs to have that firearm in hand, finger on trigger, loaded, and pointed at me for it to be dangerous, other than that, its just a paperweight.

Lastly - At whomever said those of us who clearly don't care about the safety of children... Puh-Lease... You are going on the assumption that OP isn't exaggerating, and that the "children" don't know proper handling.  

You're assuming OP (the only one who witnessed anything) is exaggerating. You have no idea. You're also assuming the children of these people and any children who may or may not attend the wedding know proper gun handling. You cannot possibly know that.

That's the point. When you don't know, you don't assume. Any responsible gun owner should know that.

NYCBruin

Oh for fucks sake, the OP said she has seen these people throw guns on the table when they have company over. That's not the same as cleaning a gun when a neighbor pops by. Leaving guns around when you have company over is not responsible gun ownership behavior IMO. Your gun=your responsibility. You shouldn't leave it around for random people to pick up, child or not.

AllieBear725

southernbelle0915 said:

BangBangs39 said:

@NYCBruin - I don't walk around naked with company or fart (I don't fart in front of anyone though, I ALWAYS excuse myself to the bathroom, idk why) but I do swear - its my home I have the right to do as I please.  If I'm cleaning my shotgun on the kitchen table and you pop over I'm not going to run to put it away for fear that it will make you uncomfortable in my home.

If your trained on the use of a firearm, and you've trained the children around, then there is no danger to leaving a firearm on the table.  I knew as a kid to not touch it, even as young as 7 (maybe even younger).  Therefore the firearm was no threat to me, Someone needs to have that firearm in hand, finger on trigger, loaded, and pointed at me for it to be dangerous, other than that, its just a paperweight.

Lastly - At whomever said those of us who clearly don't care about the safety of children... Puh-Lease... You are going on the assumption that OP isn't exaggerating, and that the "children" don't know proper handling.  

You're assuming OP (the only one who witnessed anything) is exaggerating. You have no idea. You're also assuming the children of these people and any children who may or may not attend the wedding know proper gun handling. You cannot possibly know that.

That's the point. When you don't know, you don't assume. Any responsible gun owner should know that.

Agree 100% to the bolded. 

BangBangs39

@Southernbelle0915 - Which again is exactly why many of us have asked if they've done this in public places or if she is exaggerating to make a point... thus far no answer.  I tend to air on the side of exaggeration with someone who openly admits that an inanimate object scares them.  I'm scared of spiders - whenever I see on of those bastards in my basement its the size of my hand and looking at me!  Doesn't mean it's true.

@NYCBruin - I just re-read all of OP comments to make sure I didn't miss something, I must have though because I see no comment regarding these family members acting irresponsibly with company in their home. 

Also - there are certain people that you trust more than others to be around your objects alone.

 

AllieBear725

If my gun is not on my person, it's in a locked safe, and only me and FI know the code. I don't ever keep them laying around. Even after cleaning, it goes right back in the safe. We have no kids in the house, but if we did, they would def not be any where near our firearms. 

BangBangs39

AllieBear725 said:

If my gun is not on my person, it's in a locked safe, and only me and FI know the code. I don't ever keep them laying around. Even after cleaning, it goes right back in the safe. We have no kids in the house, but if we did, they would def not be any where near our firearms. 

We have our side arms which stay with us 24-7 - our in the safe guns - and our strategically hidden in case of zombie apocalypse guns.

NYCBruin

AllieBear725 said:

If my gun is not on my person, it's in a locked safe, and only me and FI know the code. I don't ever keep them laying around. Even after cleaning, it goes right back in the safe. We have no kids in the house, but if we did, they would def not be any where near our firearms. 

Thank you for saying this! This is what I consider responsible gun owner behavior.

Bangs-if OP has witnessed it, it is when company is over. She qualifies as company as she doesn't live there.

ETA live not lie.

southernbelle0915

BangBangs39 said:

@Southernbelle0915 - Which again is exactly why many of us have asked if they've done this in public places or if she is exaggerating to make a point... thus far no answer.  I tend to air on the side of exaggeration with someone who openly admits that an inanimate object scares them.  I'm scared of spiders - whenever I see on of those bastards in my basement its the size of my hand and looking at me!  Doesn't mean it's true.

@NYCBruin - I just re-read all of OP comments to make sure I didn't miss something, I must have though because I see no comment regarding these family members acting irresponsibly with company in their home. 

Also - there are certain people that you trust more than others to be around your objects alone.

A responsible gun owner knows and respects that a gun is not an inanimate object.

BangBangs39

@southernbelle0915 - Unless someone is utilizing a firearm it is an inanimate object - it cannot function without a user - therefore making it inanimate.

southernbelle0915

BangBangs39 said:

@southernbelle0915 - Unless someone is utilizing a firearm it is an inanimate object - it cannot function without a user - therefore making it inanimate.

Sometimes I feel like you are the ghost of NYUgirl100.

BangBangs39

southernbelle0915 said:

BangBangs39 said:

@southernbelle0915 - Unless someone is utilizing a firearm it is an inanimate object - it cannot function without a user - therefore making it inanimate.

Sometimes I feel like you are the ghost of NYUgirl100.

I do not know who that is. 

@Sylvia Weis - I'm comparing a fear of an object and its ability to make you exaggerate in order to make yourself feel rational, not the actual objects.  I cannot use something that is equivalent as an object to a firearm because I am not scared of firearms. I guess maybe I could have said I'm scared of baseball bats (even though I'm not) - it is an inanimate object incapable of harm without a user.

BangBangs39

Sylvia Weis said:
Are you stupid or something?  Spiders and baseball bats are in no way comparable to an object that you need to pass a background check for or pass a test in order to legally own.

First off - FYI - by calling me stupid you violate TK rules of posting, I won't flag you but keep in mind that name calling in no way bolsters debate - it merely makes it appear that you have nothing of importance or substance to add, therefore you just name call.  If you want to have a debate about inanimate objects, then lets do it - if you want to have a name calling contest - I'm all set.

Second - You don't need to pass a test to get a firearm - only few states require this and the "test" is easier in some states than the SAT's.  Also - FYI - just because you pass a background check doesn't mean you should own a firearm. Example 1 - The Sandy Hook shooter would have passed a background check.  Again - I compared the fear of objects/things not the things themselves, aside from a baseball bat... a person hell bent on doing damage will do damage no matter what.... someone who poses no threat, will pose no threat with any object. 

BangBangs39

Sylvia Weis said:

How kind of you.

I do not consider an object that can kill people to be inanimate.

And my point was comparing a gun to spiders or baseballs bats is stupid.  There is no comparison at all IMO.

I recognize your point, I again wasn't comparing objects realy - but the fear of something and its ability to make you exaggerate.

While you may not think of an object with an ability to kill someone as inanimate, it is still inanimate as it cannot function without the help of a person

Lastly - the bolded - Its Friday, I'm eating some excellent home made Chilly that FI made for me, and its only 8 days away from my wedding - you could probably call me the C word and I wouldn't flag you right now HAHA - the only thing that would improve this day is if I was lounging in the sun drinking a beer.

NYCBruin

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangs is actually super anti-gun and is trying to pose as a pro-gun person to make people think pro-gun people say/do/think crazy things? 

Simply Fated

NYCBruin said:

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangs is actually super anti-gun and is trying to pose as a pro-gun person to make people think pro-gun people say/do/think crazy things? 

Nope. I have plenty of very pro-gun friends that sound like her, use similar arguments AND make even more extreme comments.
Baseball bats are actually a common argument for people who are pro-gun because baseball bats apparently cause more deaths than guns do. I'm uncertain of the details in that one, but that argument was ALL over my fb wall right after Sandy Hook.

southernbelle0915

we get it, bangs. you're pro-gun.

The two issues that you so flawlessly ignored (and even defended at times) are that: 

1) You don't get to bring your gun everywhere. Boo hoo. Go cry to the NRA. You don't have the right to bring it on private property if the owner of said property doesn't want it there and you don't have the right to bring it to places where there is a policy against it (like a venue that does not allow guns, a school, etc.). So the answer to OP's question is yes, you CAN have a gun free wedding.

2) The merits of responsible gun ownership - like not assuming children you've never met know how to handle a gun and that saying people are tossing around guns is like saying a spider is as big as your hand (FTW?). 

NYCBruin

Simply Fated said:

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangs is actually super anti-gun and is trying to pose as a pro-gun person to make people think pro-gun people say/do/think crazy things? 

Nope. I have plenty of very pro-gun friends that sound like her, use similar arguments AND make even more extreme comments. Baseball bats are actually a common argument for people who are pro-gun because baseball bats apparently cause more deaths than guns do. I'm uncertain of the details in that one, but that argument was ALL over my fb wall right after Sandy Hook.

Oh I totally get the comparison for the argument that you can cause serious injury/death to people using a baseball bat.  Most states even consider a baseball bat as a deadly weapon if used in a threatening or intimidating way.  I don't fully buy into the argument, but I understand it.

My point was that I've never heard someone say, "well baseball bats and guns are exactly the same, so it's not irresponsible to leave a gun sitting on the table because you would leave a baseball bat laying around in your garage."

southernbelle0915

NYCBruin said:

Simply Fated said:

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangs is actually super anti-gun and is trying to pose as a pro-gun person to make people think pro-gun people say/do/think crazy things? 

Nope. I have plenty of very pro-gun friends that sound like her, use similar arguments AND make even more extreme comments. Baseball bats are actually a common argument for people who are pro-gun because baseball bats apparently cause more deaths than guns do. I'm uncertain of the details in that one, but that argument was ALL over my fb wall right after Sandy Hook.

Oh I totally get the comparison for the argument that you can cause serious injury/death to people using a baseball bat.  Most states even consider a baseball bat as a deadly weapon if used in a threatening or intimidating way.  I don't fully buy into the argument, but I understand it.

My point was that I've never heard someone say, "well baseball bats and guns are exactly the same, so it's not irresponsible to leave a gun sitting on the table because you would leave a baseball bat laying around in your garage."

You can kill people with a lot of things. Doesn't mean you need a background check to buy a candlestick, a lead pipe, a wrench, a rope or a knife. (someone please get this reference!!) 

The point here is not what objects can cause harm. The point is HOW people handle dangerous objects. OP's FILs don't handle them safely at all and it makes her feel uncomfortable. BangBangs is using it as a soap box to advocate for pro-gun and it's just making her sound like an irresponsible gun owner, which is actually hurting the pro-gun argument a lot.

southernbelle0915

@Sylvia Weis

Simply Fated

Simply Fated said:

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangs is actually super anti-gun and is trying to pose as a pro-gun person to make people think pro-gun people say/do/think crazy things? 

Nope. I have plenty of very pro-gun friends that sound like her, use similar arguments AND make even more extreme comments. Baseball bats are actually a common argument for people who are pro-gun because baseball bats apparently cause more deaths than guns do. I'm uncertain of the details in that one, but that argument was ALL over my fb wall right after Sandy Hook.

Oh I totally get the comparison for the argument that you can cause serious injury/death to people using a baseball bat.  Most states even consider a baseball bat as a deadly weapon if used in a threatening or intimidating way.  I don't fully buy into the argument, but I understand it.

My point was that I've never heard someone say, "well baseball bats and guns are exactly the same, so it's not irresponsible to leave a gun sitting on the table because you would leave a baseball bat laying around in your garage."

I have.
I've heard that baseball bats are worse than guns because they have killed more people and therefore should be considered an assault weapon, subject to background checks when being purchased.

 I have some extreme facebook friends.

NYCBruin

southernbelle0915 said:

NYCBruin said:

Simply Fated said:

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangs is actually super anti-gun and is trying to pose as a pro-gun person to make people think pro-gun people say/do/think crazy things? 

Nope. I have plenty of very pro-gun friends that sound like her, use similar arguments AND make even more extreme comments. Baseball bats are actually a common argument for people who are pro-gun because baseball bats apparently cause more deaths than guns do. I'm uncertain of the details in that one, but that argument was ALL over my fb wall right after Sandy Hook.

Oh I totally get the comparison for the argument that you can cause serious injury/death to people using a baseball bat.  Most states even consider a baseball bat as a deadly weapon if used in a threatening or intimidating way.  I don't fully buy into the argument, but I understand it.

My point was that I've never heard someone say, "well baseball bats and guns are exactly the same, so it's not irresponsible to leave a gun sitting on the table because you would leave a baseball bat laying around in your garage."

You can kill people with a lot of things. Doesn't mean you need a background check to buy a candlestick, a lead pipe, a wrench, a rope or a knife. (someone please get this reference!!) 

The point here is not what objects can cause harm. The point is HOW people handle dangerous objects. OP's FILs don't handle them safely at all and it makes her feel uncomfortable. BangBangs is using it as a soap box to advocate for pro-gun and it's just making her sound like an irresponsible gun owner, which is actually hurting the pro-gun argument a lot.

Thanks!  This was exactly my point, but you worded it much better.

I actually was talking to my uncle who is VERY pro-gun yesterday and asked him what he thought about even leaving guns out, which is no where near extreme as what OP's FILs were doing.  His response was that his guns are either on him or locked up.  He would never let someone have access to his guns (by leaving it on a table when there are people around).  

When people say that it's "not a big deal" to leave guns lying around where anyone (especially a child) could pick it up, it really does hurt the pro-gun cause.  

astimmel

NYCBruin said:

NYCBruin said:

I asked specifically if she has ever seen these people carelessly toss their guns around on a table in a public setting, like a restaurant or bar or anything but their house, and I got no answer. I think she is extrapolating a bit from their behavior at home/family events to their behavior at her wedding.

I don't get why this is relevant. If someone is irresponsible with weapons in their home I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they will magically become responsible for a wedding.

@NYCBruin: Its relevant because I do a lot of things in my home I wouldn't do out in public.  For example, I walk around naked constantly, break wind occasionally, and on a general note I swear like a sailor.  However, at a public event I don't do any of these things.

Yes but I imagine you don't do those things when you have company over. More importantly none of those things are dangerous. Apples and oranges here.

Gah, sorry, it took me awhile to catch up on the thread. They do it regularly at home, and I've seen one of them do it at a restaurant. To me, that one time is enough of a reason for concern.

@hoffse, we tend to avoid these family members because my BF admits they're nuts in general and isn't that fond of them. HOWEVER, I was thinking that, hypothetically, since they are family it would be nice to invite them. And IF they were invited, would we be allowed to request this. On the occasions when we are around them and he sees them do this, he does speak up but it doesn't have an impact. He usually moves the gun to a safer location himself.

southernbelle0915

:::::waiting for Bangs to quote OP and say "well then OF COURSE you have reason to be concerned":::::::::

Before it happens, Bangs the point here is that responsible people don't assume when they don't know. You assumed she was exaggerating. Sounds like that was a safe assumption....

NYCBruin

Oh lord, all your posts about your pro-gun friends just made me a little anti-gun.

astimmel

Sylvia Weis said:

BangBangs39 said:

@Southernbelle0915 - Which again is exactly why many of us have asked if they've done this in public places or if she is exaggerating to make a point... thus far no answer.  I tend to air on the side of exaggeration with someone who openly admits that an inanimate object scares them.  I'm scared of spiders - whenever I see on of those bastards in my basement its the size of my hand and looking at me!  Doesn't mean it's true.

@NYCBruin - I just re-read all of OP comments to make sure I didn't miss something, I must have though because I see no comment regarding these family members acting irresponsibly with company in their home. 

Also - there are certain people that you trust more than others to be around your objects alone.

 

I seriously cannot believe you are comparing spiders to guns.

What about spiders WITH guns?

Simply Fated

For anyone curious... this was one of the popular images that appeared all over my facebook wall right after Sandy Hook...
http://blogheavy.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/gun-stats.jpg


Meanwhile Snopes has discredited it. <- clicky link
Daily Kos shoots down that and other arguments. <- clicky link


Anyway, my point is, no I don't think pp is pretending to be extreme to give gun supporters a bad name. Some people just really believe these things.

ETA: some clarity.