Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

beam20062010

JCBride2014 said:

OMG I just can't take it anymore and I feel like I have to jump in:

Beam, I will try to look on the most generous side of your argument as basically being: 1) you want to point out that the statement "lying is always 100% wrong every time."  2) people have unique circumstances which we should not generalize, 3) you think there are some situations in which it is okay to have a PPD and lie to one's guests, 4) other things such as the high divorce rate are more troublesome to the institution of marriage than PPDs are.

1) I completely agree with you.  There are situations in which a white lie is okay, of course.  Santa and the Easter Bunny are examples of those situations.  If we've already left the house and my friend asks if her outfit makes her look fat, I will tell her she looks cute.  Those are white lies.

2) I understand people have many reasons for getting married before the planned wedding: sickness, deployment, financial needs.  All of these are legitimate reasons to get married early.  None of them are a legitimate reason to lie to your loved ones and re-enact a fake wedding ceremony.  Just because you have a good reason for getting married early, doesn't mean you deserve to lie about your status, then fake your wedding later when it's more convenient for you.

3) Lying to your closest friends and family about your legal marital status, so that they will come celebrate you at a fake wedding ceremony, is not a white lie.  It is despicable and hurtful to your loved ones.  It's a way of taking advantage of marital benefits while holding oneself out as not married.

4) Sure, I'll give you this.  There are lots of other things to worry about with the state of marriage: cheating, divorce, abuse.  Saying PPDs are wrong is not in any way saying PPDs are the worst thing you can do to a marriage.  But it's also incredibly hurtful of you to imply that people who later get divorced just had a "PPD."  I assume that the posters on these boards who have been through divorce never intended to get divorced, and didn't just have the wedding for the sake of the party, as those having PPDs intend to do.

If somebody has to get married early for financial reasons, they can absolutely keep their original plans for a big party.  Just nix the re-do ceremony, don't call it a wedding, and party all night with your friends and family to celebrate what you've been through, and the months/years of marriage you've already had.  I just don't see any legitimate reason to lie to one's friends and family in that case.  Just be honest and still enjoy your party.

Personally, if a friend was honest about their situation, I might attend a PPD- sort of party.  It would depend on the individual circumstances.  But if a friend lied to me about their marital status, and I then traveled to see them "get married," then found out they were already married and the whole thing was just a show?  That would probably be relationship-ending for me.

One last thing. I can't stand when people come on here and ask about where we get off judging other people's situations, if they want to have a PPD they can, etc.  Yep!  If they want to have a PPD, they sure can!  But if somebody comes on the etiquette board and starts talking about doing a PPD, there's no way they will get affirmation for breaking etiquette on the etiquette board.  They are absolutely free as an adult to make a choice to break etiquette.  But here on the E-board, we will not validate those choices.  We will point out that they are not doing right by their friends and family, but any poster is free to take that advice or leave it.  We aren't going to stalk them down and arrest them liked the wedding police.

I've heard this all before. I was debating your points not mine. You aren't saying anything that hasn't been said a million times before. Your just giving your opinion and not facts, which is fine just don't make this a sticky. Give each women the chance to state their own situation, then judge the shit out of them, don't make this a sticky and represent opinions as cold hard facts. Also, don't jump all over a person's shit if they don't agree with you. Opinions are like assholes, so let all the assholes speak and not just a few that feel one way. Let them hear both sides without bashing and make the decision they see fit. If the facts are on your side you have nothing to worry about. That's all I'm saying. This is getting even more redundant than before. I don't know how to get my points across any clearer and listening to opinions I already read in the last 20 pages is giving me a headache. We each voiced our opinions so now lets just agree to disagree and move on.  

MobKaz

At some point, children discover the truth behind childhood illusions.  Sometimes the parents acknowledge the truth, other times children discover the truth accidentally.  In many, if not most of those cases, there is a period of shock and sadness.  Reactions can also be ones of anger, hurt, and mistrust.  There are consequences for white lies, too.

Perhaps those who lie about their PPD should be forced to "come clean" after a certain period of time.  Whether they will admit it or not, the feelings of their duped guests will be the same as when a child learns the truth about Santa.

NYCBruin

And for the love of all things holy,

beam20062010

NYCBruin said:

And for the love of all things holy,

I am answering you all back as fast as I can without proofreading so just back the fuck off me. Holy shit! Give me a damn break! Do you really have to find every little thing you can and then try your best to make people feel like shit?! Pretty sure I know the difference, but I don't have the time to go back and proofread everything I send, sorry. I figured another adult could give you the benefit of the doubt, but you just can't pass up the chance to be an ass. Hope you feel better now! I have seen a ton of grammar problems, but I go on, not a big deal. I am sure if I went through your posts I could find a few as well. Hope you get a lot of likes and that makes your day. 

beam20062010

chibiyui said:

chibiyui said:

I don't get why you keep hammering at the idea that because some of us might lie to our kids about Santa, its wrong to tell others its inappropriate to lie about their marital status. Thats like saying because I had a fender bender at 16, I can't teach my future kid to drive. Or that because I said a racial slur as a child I can't tell someone else using the slur that it's racist.

What? I am not hammering the point, you are. This isn't about things you do as an adult vs. things you do as a kid. lol This is about lying!!! You all said lying was wrong, that's the point I am debating. However, now you are all are saying it depends on the situation...you changed the facts of your original argument to fit your purpose. 

No, this is your entire point. I get it, your trying to be all "it comes down to the indiviual situation and who are you to judge" but almost everyone on here has said that they do that (IRL). I have seen, and know people who have had "PPD"s I understand and I get their reasoning, (of course, my examples involve either no lying or lie of omission because it was first trimester of a high risk pregnancy after a miscarriage) Lying is wrong. The indiviual weight of each lie varies person to person. I'm an adult, I'm capable of realizing the difference between my Mom lying about Santa and a friend lying about her marital status. Its wrong to lie to your kids about Santa, its wrong to lie to your guests about your marital status. It is culturally acceptable to lie to your kids about marriage, it is not culturally acceptable to lie about your marital status.

I completely agree with you!

Jen4948

beam20062010 said:

NYCBruin said:

And for the love of all things holy,

I am answering you all back as fast as I can without proofreading so just back the fuck off me. Holy shit! Give me a damn break! Do you really have to find every little thing you can and then try your best to make people feel like shit?! Pretty sure I know the difference, but I don't have the time to go back and proofread everything I send, sorry. I figured another adult could give you the benefit of the doubt, but you just can't pass up the chance to be an ass. Hope you feel better now! I have seen a ton of grammar problems, but I go on, not a big deal. I am sure if I went through your posts I could find a few as well. Hope you get a lot of likes and that makes your day. 

Pot, call kettle black.

beam20062010

mobkaz said:

At some point, children discover the truth behind childhood illusions.  Sometimes the parents acknowledge the truth, other times children discover the truth accidentally.  In many, if not most of those cases, there is a period of shock and sadness.  Reactions can also be ones of anger, hurt, and mistrust.  There are consequences for white lies, too.

Perhaps those who lie about their PPD should be forced to "come clean" after a certain period of time.  Whether they will admit it or not, the feelings of their duped guests will be the same as when a child learns the truth about Santa.

I completely agree with you mobkaz. I like the way you put this as well. The only thing I was debating was the comment I kept hearing about lying being wrong all the time. I personally don't think it's ok to lie anytime, but I also don't judge those who choose to do it. I would also like to know if someone was already married, but I wouldn't stop loving them or think of them differently if they did lie. 

lyndausvi

beam20062010 said:

mobkaz said:

At some point, children discover the truth behind childhood illusions.  Sometimes the parents acknowledge the truth, other times children discover the truth accidentally.  In many, if not most of those cases, there is a period of shock and sadness.  Reactions can also be ones of anger, hurt, and mistrust.  There are consequences for white lies, too.

Perhaps those who lie about their PPD should be forced to "come clean" after a certain period of time.  Whether they will admit it or not, the feelings of their duped guests will be the same as when a child learns the truth about Santa.

I completely agree with you mobkaz. I like the way you put this as well. The only thing I was debating was the comment I kept hearing about lying being wrong all the time. I personally don't think it's ok to lie anytime, but I also don't judge those who choose to do it. I would also like to know if someone was already married, but I wouldn't stop loving them or think of them differently if they did lie. 

I find that hard to believe.  Don't get me wrong on this subject I think you might feel that way.  I find it hard to believe you would not judge people who lie.  

beam20062010

Jen4948 said:

beam20062010 said:

NYCBruin said:

And for the love of all things holy,

I am answering you all back as fast as I can without proofreading so just back the fuck off me. Holy shit! Give me a damn break! Do you really have to find every little thing you can and then try your best to make people feel like shit?! Pretty sure I know the difference, but I don't have the time to go back and proofread everything I send, sorry. I figured another adult could give you the benefit of the doubt, but you just can't pass up the chance to be an ass. Hope you feel better now! I have seen a ton of grammar problems, but I go on, not a big deal. I am sure if I went through your posts I could find a few as well. Hope you get a lot of likes and that makes your day. 

Pot, call kettle black.

Please, explain how the hell I did this! Because I debated something? It's ok for you to debate something, but not me? Maybe you don't know what that means. Yeah, that must be it. 

beam20062010

lyndausvi said:

beam20062010 said:

mobkaz said:

At some point, children discover the truth behind childhood illusions.  Sometimes the parents acknowledge the truth, other times children discover the truth accidentally.  In many, if not most of those cases, there is a period of shock and sadness.  Reactions can also be ones of anger, hurt, and mistrust.  There are consequences for white lies, too.

Perhaps those who lie about their PPD should be forced to "come clean" after a certain period of time.  Whether they will admit it or not, the feelings of their duped guests will be the same as when a child learns the truth about Santa.

I completely agree with you mobkaz. I like the way you put this as well. The only thing I was debating was the comment I kept hearing about lying being wrong all the time. I personally don't think it's ok to lie anytime, but I also don't judge those who choose to do it. I would also like to know if someone was already married, but I wouldn't stop loving them or think of them differently if they did lie. 

I find that hard to believe.  Don't get me wrong on this subject I think you might feel that way.  I find it hard to believe you would not judge people who lie.  

YOU ARE entitled to YOUR opinion. I also don't think it's right to make assumptions when you don't know me at all. Anything else you want to pick apart?

lyndausvi

I'm pretty sure if your FI/DH lied and cheated on you there would be judging going on.  But you are correct, you might be one of those submissive wives who let that kind of stuff slide.

NYCBruin

-------------------------------------------

Relax. First, you're doing the same damn thing with mincing words and latching on to small things in people's posts and missing their actual point.

Second, yes, it is actually really distracting and difficult to read your posts. And since you keep making the same mistake in pretty much every one of your posts, how would I know that you do know the difference?


Edited to delete quote because the box was so messed up.

Sabinus15

acove2006 said:

Give me ONE good reason that guests shouldn't be made aware that they are witnessing a re-do ceremony and the "bride and groom" are actually husband and wife. Just one. And "it's none of their business" doesn't count because the moment you invited them to witness your "wedding" it became their business. What benefit will the guests get from the couple lying to them? Please enlighten me. The couple, on the other hand, thinks they get plenty of benefits. They get to dress up and do-over their wedding since their real wedding obviously wasn't good enough and lying to their guests is the only way they can achieve THEIR vision. The couple gets plenty of attention, presents, a party, and who knows what else. But all the guests receive is a big bag of bullshit.

 

Just tell the truth. Slap on that tiara and pretend to be a bride again. I don't really care. But there isn't one good reason that lying to your guests is necessary.

I don't believe that most couples are lying for selfish reasons.

If PPD's really are culturally unacceptable (I happen to disagree), then isn't it possible that the reason they are lying by omission to their guests is to spare their guests the discomfort of enduring a "fake" wedding? Then their guests can just enjoy what they think is a real wedding for the couple and everyone's lives can continue. Recall the phrase "ignorance is bliss." At least that is the intent, which I believe is a good, well-meaning, non-selfish intention. Yes, things can get out and it can end up backfiring, but the point is, it is possible that they are doing it because they want their guests to enjoy the day instead of brood about how their time is being wasted. I can't think of any more reasons why someone would lie to their guests, because I haven't been in that situation. But, I do feel like most brides are well-meaning though and actually do want their guests to have a good time.

Sabinus15

lyndausvi said:

I'm pretty sure if your FI/DH lied and cheated on you there would be judging going on.  But you are correct, you might be one of those submissive wives who let that kind of stuff slide.

I find your comment off-putting and offensive. I consider myself a submissive wife-to-be, and yes I would give my husband a second chance if he cheated and lied to me. I can see past one mistake. Now if there was a pattern of cheating and lying, that would be different because that shows me that I'm not worth it to him, so I would choose divorce if it can't be worked out. I don't think that mercy is something to be ashamed of and I take pride in my personality. I am just as self-secure as any other woman by the way, and I don't think submissiveness is anything to be ashamed of. It's just how I work. 

Sabinus15

beam20062010 said:

lyndausvi said:

So because your parents may have lied to you about the Tooth Fairy means it's okay to lie and manipulate your friends about your real marital status in regards to a PPD?  It's okay to take all the benefits allowed by the martial status, yet not tell your friends you are married so they will feel like the ceremony is "real".   Yeah, okay.

And if you do not already know, I'm self-proclaimed PPD-lite.  I have flown over to Europe for a PPD. I'm one of the few that can look at the situation and decide on a case-by-case.   As long as you are honest with me, I will support you.  I don't like my friends intentionally lie (or lie by omission) in order for me to be "on the same page emotional".   I will not go as far as saying it would be a relationship ender, but it would make me take a different look at the friend.

Oh and I get a gift from Santa every year so I don't know what you are talking about Santa isn't real.

Once again, every single one of you said that lying is wrong 100% of the time!!! Please! Understand, that I am not now nor have I ever said that lying is right! I am simply debating your own facts, not mine.

I am not by any means saying that because your parents did something, that later in life it gives you an excuse to do the same. That's like me saying, it's ok to kill someone just because your parent did it. Your not grasping the point I am trying to make. If lying is wrong all the time, as you all stated MANY times, how can you possibly justify one lie, but not the other? 

The only difference is that one lie is more socially acceptable, which is the point I am trying to also make. Etiquette isn't law it's something that society deems as acceptable behavior and etiquette is always changing with the times. 

Who said that all women were doing this to make the ceremony feel "real"? This is your opinion, you have no clue why women do it because you have never been in their shoes. I am debating facts, not how a person may or may not have felt the day of her wedding because I have NO idea what was going through another person's mind; therefore, I can not judge them for it. 

Yes, I read your story about eight times. I get it, I really do. You have an opinion and that's great! Like I said before, what bothered me was that this post was NOT made for opinions or discussions, but to say look, we are tired of discussing this issue case by case, here are the facts like it or not. This just isn't right. Mainly, because your facts don't hold up. 

Also, THIS^.

Side note, to get un-stuck in the box, click the icon "Show Source" above the reply box that has the little red arrows and begin to type below where it says </blockquote> at the bottom. Once you've typed a letter or two, click the icon again to get it back to the normal mode and you should be unstuck and you can continue typing from there. You're welcome.

Jells2dot0

beam20062010 said:

Jells2dot0 said:

 

Let me guess- you have never been divorced? Comparing someone who wants to have a big party with a big white dress and gifts after they are already married and someone who is getting married and then divorces is just ridiculous. Do you really think that divorce is an easy decision? That it isn't full of sadness, disappointment and even thoughts of failure? Deciding to divorce is living with your decision- a decision that is very adult and very serious. It's life altering. If you have walked a day in someone's shoes who has been divorced, regardless of why, that it's not lying to your guests. In fact, in some cases, if you decide to stay with someone because of vows you said at one point, you are seriously lying to yourself. It's lying to yourself that things are going to be just okey dokey because you once told someone you'd stick with them until death. I know you recognize that some divorces occur for very serious reasons and that you are okay with that. I just think it's funny when first time brides on here talk down about divorce. I used to be one of those brides and I was an asshole for being so naive.

Let me guess-you have never had a PPD? Please, re-read my post because you are not grasping the comparison I was trying to make. I know for a fact divorce is a very hard thing to go through and I am not debating this at all! 

In fact, you are getting way off into left field trying to make this into something it simply is not. I made the comparison about those going through a divorce or having to get one as a way of showing how life does't always take the path you want it to and that doesn't mean it's your fault or you should have to live with it. It was a comparison of having to live with your decisions in life after it takes you down an unexpected path. That's it, nothing more. We encounter hardships at all times in our lives and I don't think we should ever just have to live with it.  

Don't read into what I am trying to say. I said what I meant straight up and I am not alluding to anything. I am right out saying it. I am glad you realize there is a sense of compassion needed for the couple going through a divorce because I completely agree. What I do not agree with is why the couples who are going through a hard time while being engaged are not shown any of the same compassion.

I am so so so so glad you made the point about how at first you were "an asshole for being so naive." Your are 100% right! I am so glad you said this! These women on here are being just like you once were about divorces and after you experienced that struggle in life, it opened up your eyes and you saw what an asshole you had been. I am sure if a lot of women on here judging other women for a PPD had to go through this they also would all be singing another tune as well.

I am sorry for what you had to go through. I am sure it was really hard. It makes me sad just thinking about it. Life is full of so much hardships and suffering. I just don't see the point in telling someone that might be met with hardships how they should live their lives, what they should have to live with and what they should have to do without. You only live once. 

you're right- I've never had a PPD. In fact, I had the exact opposite. I have not been in the position where  I had to get married earlier than planned, but even if  did, I'd just have the quick ceremony and call it a day.

I admit that I was the bride on this board that thought my marriage was going to be fantastic and that divorce could never happen to me! Even though I had my eyes opened to different situations, I still do not think PPDs are acceptable. I'm all for doing what you got to do, and then having a great celebration after the fact, but certainly not re-doing it and DEFINITELY not lying about it. In fact, getting divorced made me just that much more against dumping a ton of money into a wedding!!!

MobKaz

Sabinus15 said:

acove2006 said:

Give me ONE good reason that guests shouldn't be made aware that they are witnessing a re-do ceremony and the "bride and groom" are actually husband and wife. Just one. And "it's none of their business" doesn't count because the moment you invited them to witness your "wedding" it became their business. What benefit will the guests get from the couple lying to them? Please enlighten me. The couple, on the other hand, thinks they get plenty of benefits. They get to dress up and do-over their wedding since their real wedding obviously wasn't good enough and lying to their guests is the only way they can achieve THEIR vision. The couple gets plenty of attention, presents, a party, and who knows what else. But all the guests receive is a big bag of bullshit.

 

Just tell the truth. Slap on that tiara and pretend to be a bride again. I don't really care. But there isn't one good reason that lying to your guests is necessary.

I don't believe that most couples are lying for selfish reasons.

If PPD's really are culturally unacceptable (I happen to disagree), then isn't it possible that the reason they are lying by omission to their guests is to spare their guests the discomfort of enduring a "fake" wedding? Then their guests can just enjoy what they think is a real wedding for the couple and everyone's lives can continue. Recall the phrase "ignorance is bliss." At least that is the intent, which I believe is a good, well-meaning, non-selfish intention. Yes, things can get out and it can end up backfiring, but the point is, it is possible that they are doing it because they want their guests to enjoy the day instead of brood about how their time is being wasted. I can't think of any more reasons why someone would lie to their guests, because I haven't been in that situation. But, I do feel like most brides are well-meaning though and actually do want their guests to have a good time.

I am an adult.  I am capable of deciding what I can and cannot endure.  You cannot and should not presume to make that decision for me.  Tell me the truth UP FRONT so that I can decide for myself.  Truth is the only non-selfish act.  If I know up front the truth about a fake ceremony, and choose to attend, there would be no need to brood.  

If I find out after the fact, and now realize I spent a boatload of time and money on a fake event for someone that was clearly not close enough to me to be honest, there would be a hella lot more than brooding happening.

MobKaz

beam20062010 said:

mobkaz said:

At some point, children discover the truth behind childhood illusions.  Sometimes the parents acknowledge the truth, other times children discover the truth accidentally.  In many, if not most of those cases, there is a period of shock and sadness.  Reactions can also be ones of anger, hurt, and mistrust.  There are consequences for white lies, too.

Perhaps those who lie about their PPD should be forced to "come clean" after a certain period of time.  Whether they will admit it or not, the feelings of their duped guests will be the same as when a child learns the truth about Santa.

I completely agree with you mobkaz. I like the way you put this as well. The only thing I was debating was the comment I kept hearing about lying being wrong all the time. I personally don't think it's ok to lie anytime, but I also don't judge those who choose to do it. I would also like to know if someone was already married, but I wouldn't stop loving them or think of them differently if they did lie. 

You never, ever judge anyone who actively chooses to lie to you about something that directly impacts you?  100% of the time?

Well you're a better man than I, if that is true.  If someone were to think so little of me as to blatantly lie when it directly impacts my time and money, you can bet it would make me think of them differently.  

APDSS22

Posters may debate that there are two sides to this issue, but as far as I've seen here, there is still not a single good reason for lying to your guests about already being married. There are plenty of valid reasons to get married sooner than expected but it's ridiculous to argue that:

1. All posters who have the same opinion about PPDs believe and have in fact said that lying in any situation is 100% wrong. That is an argument perpetuated "to redundancy" to be argumentative. Lying about being married is wrong. (I'm of a scientific nature, until something is as proven a law as the force of gravity, I will look at what data I have and extrapolate a working model.  Lacking ANY evidence contrary to this fact, lying about being married is therefore, wrong.)

2. Children are exactly the same as adults.  Putting aside the moral debate on whether or not to invite children to believe in make believe characters, there are many things that adults do (pay taxes, hold a job, drive semi-trucks, vote, smoke cigarettes, testify in court, etc) that are either impossible for children to do or they only complete them with certain restrictions.  Minors are treated differently because they are different.  They have different brain chemistry, among other things, and if we took every child that had hit someone into the police station for assault...hopefully you were just trying to further your point that you think we all have the same opinion and that you think things should be taken on a case by case basis and therefore lying to adults would be the same as lying to children and, as an extension of your argument put into our mouths, wrong.

3. Etiquette changes constantly.  As previously stated, there has never been a poster able to illuminate why PPDs (which include a fake ceremony as a rule and lying to the guests as a large portion of the whole) are necessary or in what situation the lying and the fake ceremony would be necessary.  Etiquette is not a matter of a single person's opinion.  Etiquette exists because as a whole society, we aggregate ideas and opinions and come to a conclusion as a community as to what is correct behavior and what is incorrect behavior.  Etiquette therefore does not change constantly because the whole of a society does not change constantly.  It may evolve to include new technology or shift when society shifts but just because one individual or even a portion of a society finds something acceptable, does not suddenly make it acceptable until it is accepted by the authorities of such objects (Miss Manners) and the majority of the society as a whole.

4. Having a fancier wedding than necessary means you're having a PPD.  A PPD is by definition, NOT a wedding.  It is a re-enactment of a wedding that already took place including a "wedding ceremony" in which no one is wed and it frequently involves lying which is unnecessary and hurtful when guests find out.  Claiming that lying to your guests is to save them from the moral quandary of attending a PPD would be for their benefit is dispicable in my personal opinion.  I will not try to speak for all the posters on this board, but that is how I feel.  Every couple is different and so should choose a wedding ceremony appropriate to them.  Claiming anything other than a JOP wedding is a PPD because anything extra is not necessary is like saying humans basically need nothing more than nutrients so we should all feed from tubes rather than bother with things like steak or mashed potatoes.  Some couples like private and elegant and they go to the JOP or they elope because that's what they want and what they choose.  Some people feel they need the benefits of marriage quickly so they have a JOP wedding to access those benefits and that's their reasonable choice.  Some couples like being able to share their wedding with everyone they know so they throw a huge shindig and that's also a choice. 

lyndausvi

I've decided to just agree to disagree.

SKPM

Sabinus15 said:

acove2006 said:

Give me ONE good reason that guests shouldn't be made aware that they are witnessing a re-do ceremony and the "bride and groom" are actually husband and wife. Just one. And "it's none of their business" doesn't count because the moment you invited them to witness your "wedding" it became their business. What benefit will the guests get from the couple lying to them? Please enlighten me. The couple, on the other hand, thinks they get plenty of benefits. They get to dress up and do-over their wedding since their real wedding obviously wasn't good enough and lying to their guests is the only way they can achieve THEIR vision. The couple gets plenty of attention, presents, a party, and who knows what else. But all the guests receive is a big bag of bullshit.

 

Just tell the truth. Slap on that tiara and pretend to be a bride again. I don't really care. But there isn't one good reason that lying to your guests is necessary.

I don't believe that most couples are lying for selfish reasons.

If PPD's really are culturally unacceptable (I happen to disagree), then isn't it possible that the reason they are lying by omission to their guests is to spare their guests the discomfort of enduring a "fake" wedding? Then their guests can just enjoy what they think is a real wedding for the couple and everyone's lives can continue. Recall the phrase "ignorance is bliss." At least that is the intent, which I believe is a good, well-meaning, non-selfish intention. Yes, things can get out and it can end up backfiring, but the point is, it is possible that they are doing it because they want their guests to enjoy the day instead of brood about how their time is being wasted. I can't think of any more reasons why someone would lie to their guests, because I haven't been in that situation. But, I do feel like most brides are well-meaning though and actually do want their guests to have a good time.

I also wanted to spare my guests the discomfort of enduring a fake wedding. So H and I got married at the event which we had billed as our wedding.

Had we, for some unforeseen reason, not been able to wed at our event-billed-as-a-wedding, we would have re-adjusted our plans like adults. Depending on the particular circumstances, that could mean inviting friends/family to a JOP ceremony in a park, inviting immediate family to a courthouse, or just proceeding with our reception event and informed guests that we had married previously and the reception would now be a "celebration of the recent wedding."

lyndausvi

Sabinus15 said:

lyndausvi said:

I'm pretty sure if your FI/DH lied and cheated on you there would be judging going on.  But you are correct, you might be one of those submissive wives who let that kind of stuff slide.

I find your comment off-putting and offensive. I consider myself a submissive wife-to-be, and yes I would give my husband a second chance if he cheated and lied to me. I can see past one mistake. Now if there was a pattern of cheating and lying, that would be different because that shows me that I'm not worth it to him, so I would choose divorce if it can't be worked out. I don't think that mercy is something to be ashamed of and I take pride in my personality. I am just as self-secure as any other woman by the way, and I don't think submissiveness is anything to be ashamed of. It's just how I work. 

  You know you can still judge your husband's actions without ending the relationship right?   

Bean said "I personally don't think it's ok to lie anytime, but I also don't judge those who choose to do it."      I was just pointing out that with all the lies that she could face in a lifetime I doubt that would the case.

crunchymamaof2

Out of this entire argument, I am astonished that the point you grab by the balls is the fact that a few said "lying is wrong." If that's all you got after this whole thread, I just have to shake my head.

jneen101

Yo this thread is bananas.

beam20062010

acove2006 said:

Out of this entire argument, I am astonished that the point you grab by the balls is the fact that a few said "lying is wrong." If that's all you got after this whole thread, I just have to shake my head.

I am astonished that it's the only point you thought I was debating. I am not the one who just took away the lying from it, you did. *bands head against wall* I also discussed other points, but no one wanted to further debate those such as your gay and lesbian fact that one way is rude to them, but not the other. Again, please keep in keep that I am not the one who focused on lying is always wrong for 20 pages, all I did was point out a hole in your "fact". Then, you all want to debate me on the aspects of lying, which wasn't what my original debate was even about. I don't know how I can possibly make this clearer without painting a picture. I don't see why you are getting so butt hurt over it. 

Maggie0829

This thread is getting everyone no where. No matter what side of the argument you are on the other persons view is never going to change. Never. So instead of running around in circles and banging your heads against your keyboard, why don't we all just agree to disagree and move on.

beam20062010

lyndausvi said:

Sabinus15 said:

lyndausvi said:

I'm pretty sure if your FI/DH lied and cheated on you there would be judging going on.  But you are correct, you might be one of those submissive wives who let that kind of stuff slide.

I find your comment off-putting and offensive. I consider myself a submissive wife-to-be, and yes I would give my husband a second chance if he cheated and lied to me. I can see past one mistake. Now if there was a pattern of cheating and lying, that would be different because that shows me that I'm not worth it to him, so I would choose divorce if it can't be worked out. I don't think that mercy is something to be ashamed of and I take pride in my personality. I am just as self-secure as any other woman by the way, and I don't think submissiveness is anything to be ashamed of. It's just how I work. 

  You know you can still judge your husband's actions without ending the relationship right?   

Bean said "I personally don't think it's ok to lie anytime, but I also don't judge those who choose to do it."      I was just pointing out that with all the lies that she could face in a lifetime I doubt that would the case.

Do you realize you are now debating what I would or wouldn't do in personal situations. How do you know this when you don't me? This is ridiculous. Don't you have better things to do in real life than argue about the personal made up decisions a complete stranger might make? Remember, only you control if something or someone hurts you or not. 

Can we be sad? Of course, but we move on just like I am praying you will finally decide to do with this topic. I know, you will have to have the last word though. This isn't my first rodeo with you ladies. Just like the lady on here that thought she was my English teacher. I didn't miss a wink of sleep over that shit. Slept like a baby. Although, I have gotten a few chuckles of out these responses. Give it to God and move on. Life is too short.   

beam20062010

Sabinus15 said:

acove2006 said:

Give me ONE good reason that guests shouldn't be made aware that they are witnessing a re-do ceremony and the "bride and groom" are actually husband and wife. Just one. And "it's none of their business" doesn't count because the moment you invited them to witness your "wedding" it became their business. What benefit will the guests get from the couple lying to them? Please enlighten me. The couple, on the other hand, thinks they get plenty of benefits. They get to dress up and do-over their wedding since their real wedding obviously wasn't good enough and lying to their guests is the only way they can achieve THEIR vision. The couple gets plenty of attention, presents, a party, and who knows what else. But all the guests receive is a big bag of bullshit.

 

Just tell the truth. Slap on that tiara and pretend to be a bride again. I don't really care. But there isn't one good reason that lying to your guests is necessary.

I don't believe that most couples are lying for selfish reasons.

If PPD's really are culturally unacceptable (I happen to disagree), then isn't it possible that the reason they are lying by omission to their guests is to spare their guests the discomfort of enduring a "fake" wedding? Then their guests can just enjoy what they think is a real wedding for the couple and everyone's lives can continue. Recall the phrase "ignorance is bliss." At least that is the intent, which I believe is a good, well-meaning, non-selfish intention. Yes, things can get out and it can end up backfiring, but the point is, it is possible that they are doing it because they want their guests to enjoy the day instead of brood about how their time is being wasted. I can't think of any more reasons why someone would lie to their guests, because I haven't been in that situation. But, I do feel like most brides are well-meaning though and actually do want their guests to have a good time.

I also wanted to spare my guests the discomfort of enduring a fake wedding. So H and I got married at the event which we had billed as our wedding.

Had we, for some unforeseen reason, not been able to wed at our event-billed-as-a-wedding, we would have re-adjusted our plans like adults. Depending on the particular circumstances, that could mean inviting friends/family to a JOP ceremony in a park, inviting immediate family to a courthouse, or just proceeding with our reception event and informed guests that we had married previously and the reception would now be a "celebration of the recent wedding."

Stuck in Box

I am glad you know what you for sure would do in pretend situations. Labor should be a piece of cake for you. It's fine to have an idea but holy shit batman you just never know for sure what your going to do, ever. It's your opinion, which was the point I was trying to make. So, now can we move on with real life, pretty please. 

beam20062010

------------------------------------------- Relax. First, you're doing the same damn thing with mincing words and latching on to small things in people's posts and missing their actual point. Second, yes, it is actually really distracting and difficult to read your posts. And since you keep making the same mistake in pretty much every one of your posts, how would I know that you do know the difference? Edited to delete quote because the box was so messed up.

I think you should take your own advice. Relax. You're the one who brought it up, not me. Little things? Really? No, saying lying is wrong all the time for 20 pages is not latching on to something small, it was presented as a fact over and over and over again. How is it not the actual point of that statement? No wait, don't answer that, let's just agree to disagree and move on. I am done trying to explain. Then, PLEASE, by all means STOP reading my posts. lol If you don't understand them certainly don't comment on them. Just give someone the benefit of the doubt and move on for once. 

beam20062010

beam20062010 said:

Jells2dot0 said:

 

Let me guess- you have never been divorced? Comparing someone who wants to have a big party with a big white dress and gifts after they are already married and someone who is getting married and then divorces is just ridiculous. Do you really think that divorce is an easy decision? That it isn't full of sadness, disappointment and even thoughts of failure? Deciding to divorce is living with your decision- a decision that is very adult and very serious. It's life altering. If you have walked a day in someone's shoes who has been divorced, regardless of why, that it's not lying to your guests. In fact, in some cases, if you decide to stay with someone because of vows you said at one point, you are seriously lying to yourself. It's lying to yourself that things are going to be just okey dokey because you once told someone you'd stick with them until death. I know you recognize that some divorces occur for very serious reasons and that you are okay with that. I just think it's funny when first time brides on here talk down about divorce. I used to be one of those brides and I was an asshole for being so naive.

Let me guess-you have never had a PPD? Please, re-read my post because you are not grasping the comparison I was trying to make. I know for a fact divorce is a very hard thing to go through and I am not debating this at all! 

In fact, you are getting way off into left field trying to make this into something it simply is not. I made the comparison about those going through a divorce or having to get one as a way of showing how life does't always take the path you want it to and that doesn't mean it's your fault or you should have to live with it. It was a comparison of having to live with your decisions in life after it takes you down an unexpected path. That's it, nothing more. We encounter hardships at all times in our lives and I don't think we should ever just have to live with it.  

Don't read into what I am trying to say. I said what I meant straight up and I am not alluding to anything. I am right out saying it. I am glad you realize there is a sense of compassion needed for the couple going through a divorce because I completely agree. What I do not agree with is why the couples who are going through a hard time while being engaged are not shown any of the same compassion.

I am so so so so glad you made the point about how at first you were "an asshole for being so naive." Your are 100% right! I am so glad you said this! These women on here are being just like you once were about divorces and after you experienced that struggle in life, it opened up your eyes and you saw what an asshole you had been. I am sure if a lot of women on here judging other women for a PPD had to go through this they also would all be singing another tune as well.

I am sorry for what you had to go through. I am sure it was really hard. It makes me sad just thinking about it. Life is full of so much hardships and suffering. I just don't see the point in telling someone that might be met with hardships how they should live their lives, what they should have to live with and what they should have to do without. You only live once. 

you're right- I've never had a PPD. In fact, I had the exact opposite. I have not been in the position where  I had to get married earlier than planned, but even if  did, I'd just have the quick ceremony and call it a day.

I admit that I was the bride on this board that thought my marriage was going to be fantastic and that divorce could never happen to me! Even though I had my eyes opened to different situations, I still do not think PPDs are acceptable. I'm all for doing what you got to do, and then having a great celebration after the fact, but certainly not re-doing it and DEFINITELY not lying about it. In fact, getting divorced made me just that much more against dumping a ton of money into a wedding!!!

I respect your opinion. Plus, I really like your picture. It looks like you had a great day. I am thinking more and more against dumping a lot of money into a wedding. Plus, I love the beach and all that other stuff, this thread has made me realize, isn't really needed at all.