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Wedding Etiquette Forum
NWR Genderless Child
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389593/Kathy-Witterick-David-Stocker-raising-genderless-baby.html
Not sure how I feel about this. I'm all for a child thinking for themselves, and also the parents accepting whichever lifestyle their child chooses to lead.....but this goes too far for me personally.
Just had to share. Don't think I've ever come across a story so unique....
Not sure how I feel about this. I'm all for a child thinking for themselves, and also the parents accepting whichever lifestyle their child chooses to lead.....but this goes too far for me personally.
Just had to share. Don't think I've ever come across a story so unique....
This discussion has been closed.
Re: NWR Genderless Child
FAIL
I agree with letting kids be free thinkers and choose for themselves, but honestly these parents sound like AWs and I have a feeling they are obnoxious. Not telling the baby's sex AFTER birth? I don't get it. Eventually people will have to know. What happens when the baby is older and at school, and has to choose between the girl's or boy's bathroom?
That said, I think this couple is much too extreme. They're basically setting their kid up to be a social experiment, but under amateur conditions. There's also something to be said for teaching your child social norms - but encouraging them to figure out their own likes and dislikes, which I do not see them doing with their older child. It's fine to say, "you can certainly wear the pink boa, but for now, we'll keep it at home" or "your hair looks lovely long, but most of the boys in your class will have short hair." I mean, I'm big on knowing and practicing what's appropriate in public, even if/when you disagree. Or just removing yourself from that kind of situation. It seems like they're setting their kids up for a lot of teasing and ostracizing just for their own ideals, rather than enhancing their kids' lives by allowing them to form their own gender identity in a more subtle way, if that makes sense.
40/112
I also think that men and women are different. Years of evolution and biology have made us different. I don't think that gender needs to be limiting, and if someone feels like he/she is the other gender then that's fine by me, but I do think that gender is a part of what makes each person who he/she is. Trying to exclude it from the equation entirely doesn't make sense to me.
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I think it is great that they let their little boy twirl in pink dresses and wear pink boas, but I don't really see the point in keeping gender a secret. I'll try not to force stereotypical gender roles on my kids (everyone can play with the little kitchen, wear boas and skirts or ride dirt bikes) and I like to think I'd accept them, be them tomboys, effeminate, or transgendered.
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[QUOTE]I agree with letting kids be free thinkers and choose for themselves, but honestly these parents sound like AWs and I have a feeling they are obnoxious. Not telling the baby's sex AFTER birth? I don't get it. Eventually people will have to know. <strong>What happens when the baby is older and at school, and has to choose between the girl's or boy's bathroom?</strong>
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the more I think about this, the more curious it becomes. I mean, in practice, it seems rather... bad. How do you teach your children the difference between boys and girls, in terms of sex organs? You have to teach them the proper terms for genitalia, you have to teach them about not letting people touch them in a private way, you have to teach them a lot about sex, because there IS a difference between the sexes. And there's a difference between being of the male or female gender. Ignoring the differences is the wrong way to go about it, IMO.
40/112
I can understand that they don't necessarily want their child forced into what little girls or boys "should do" but come on, this is taking it a little far. If a boy wants to play with barbies, let him and if a girl wants to play with tonka trucks I personally do not see the big deal.
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[QUOTE]I think this is crazy talk. I would consider myself a pretty liberal person - I'm all for gay marriage, have no problem with the idea of someone being transgender, etc - but for whatever reason this just seems to me like an extremist version of being open and liberal where it goes beyond the point of tolerance to the point of being absurd. I also think that men and women are different. Years of evolution and biology have made us different. I don't think that gender needs to be limiting, and if someone feels like he/she is the other gender then that's fine by me, but I do think that gender is a part of what makes each person who he/she is. Trying to exclude it from the equation entirely doesn't make sense to me.
Posted by emilyinchile[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>This, entirely. </div><div>
</div><div>I don't have a problem with most of what they do, I have a similar but much less extreme parenting style, but there isn't a lot of point of making a big deal that you aren't sharing the sex of the child. My girls could be dressed in pink, in a pink car seat with bows in their hair, and people would still be like "what a cute little boy!!!'. I gave up on the pink pretty quick.
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[QUOTE]Good Gracious get a load of my spelling mistake. I meant *gendERless* child. ugh FAIL
Posted by elizabeth121985[/QUOTE]
You can edit it, I don't think people will care. But for what it's worth, I read it as Genderless :)
I think these parents are completely overboard, I don't think there is anything wrong with people asking the sex of your baby, there isn't really anything else interesting to ask about a baby. That doesn't mean they have to make their baby conform to gender norms by wearing pink or blue everyday. You can tell people your kid is a boy without forcing him to play with trucks and go out for the football team.
I also think it could be slightly offensive to transgendered people and other people outside gender norms to imply that this baby can have free choice in his gender identity.
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I knew a woman whose little daughter was bald -- like lots of babies! She literally would tape a little pink bow on her head, because god forbid anyone might think she was a boy.
But what these folks are doing is an experiment -- an interesting one -- but an experiment that will affect their kid's whole life. That's not OK with me.
[QUOTE]Mery I love you and agree with every word. I knew a woman whose little daughter was bald -- like lots of babies! <strong>She literally would tape a little pink bow on her head,</strong> because god forbid anyone might think she was a boy. But what these folks are doing is an experiment -- an interesting one -- but an experiment that will affect their kid's whole life. That's not OK with me.
Posted by aragx6[/QUOTE]
they literally sell headbands with tufts of hair and bows on them for bald baby girls. people are insane!
[QUOTE]I read about this yesterday and pretty much agree with Mery's points. I think these parents are completely overboard, I don't think there is anything wrong with people asking the sex of your baby, there isn't really anything else interesting to ask about a baby. That doesn't mean they have to make their baby conform to gender norms by wearing pink or blue everyday. You can tell people your kid is a boy without forcing him to play with trucks and go out for the football team. <strong>I also think it could be slightly offensive to transgendered people and other people outside gender norms to imply that this baby can have free choice in his gender identity.</strong>
Posted by annakb8[/QUOTE]
This is what I thought too. There are innate feelings we have about being male or female that may or may not correspond to our genitals.
I think it is great for parents to be open minded and give their children a wide range of experiences, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't inform kids how people generally do things.
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[QUOTE]Storm will be in for a surprise if he/she is female and gets her period as a teenager, whether or not she chooses to.
Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]
The same thought came to my mind.
I guess my point is that I am all for trying to minimize or eliminate behaviors that are limiting or which form the basis for later gendered expectations (i.e., why are there so few female engineers and male nurses?) But totally ignoring sex is not the answer.
So yeah, I guess that's another way of saying I agree with Mery, but find this all pretty interesting.
Whatever you hatters be hattin. -Tay Prince
I do think that babies/children's clothing is over genderized. It's funny to think that just 30 years ago, parents did not have the option of knowing what they'd get until birth, so most newborns and young children wore gender neutral clothing. Half of my infant and toddler clothing was boy clothing (between hand-me-downs and random guessing on the part of my parents' friends), and I was bald for the first year of my life. Somehow I still managed to develop into a reasonably normal person.
But what this couple is doing? It's a crazy publicity stunt, and I don't think it's going to improve that baby's outcome, if anything, it'll confuse him/her because of all the attention the people around it pay to its possible sex/gender.
There are stereotypes and issues in the world but the way to fix this is NOT to pretend we are genderless. Gender is not a choice.
[QUOTE]I think there is an interesting question here about gender constructs. I can't find anything now, but I have seen studies to the effect that parents/other adults interact with children/babies very differently depending on the child's sex. And that those subtle differences in early interaction may actually for the basis of a lot of stereotypical behaviors that later reinforce (potentially harmful) gender norms. For example, adults are more likely to tell young boys to explore and toughen up if they get hurt, and coddle young girls/keep them closer to home. I can't find the studies now, because of course that would be too convenient. I guess my point is that I am all for trying to minimize or eliminate behaviors that are limiting or which form the basis for later gendered expectations (i.e., why are there so few female engineers and male nurses?) But totally ignoring sex is not the answer. So yeah, I guess that's another way of saying I agree with Mery, but find this all pretty interesting.
Posted by Meg1036[/QUOTE]
I have a couple books left from a Gender Roles class I took in college and I know one of them had info about this exact thing ... of course I'm not at home.
[QUOTE]Unless the baby was born with ambiguous genitalia and they want the child to declare its gender for future surgeries, I don't see the point. I do think that babies/children's clothing is over genderized. It's funny to think that just 30 years ago, parents did not have the option of knowing what they'd get until birth, so most newborns and young children wore gender neutral clothing. Half of my infant and toddler clothing was boy clothing (between hand-me-downs and random guessing on the part of my parents' friends), and I was bald for the first year of my life. Somehow I still managed to develop into a reasonably normal person. But what this couple is doing? It's a crazy publicity stunt, and<strong> I don't think it's going to improve that baby's outcome, if anything, it'll confuse him/her because of all the attention the people around it pay to its possible sex/gender.</strong>
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this kid will end up convinced that sex and/or gender is THE thing that defines it's identity. Not the other way around.
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This kind of reminds me of some Wife Swap episodes where they pair the totally opposite families and one family is usually "free spirited" and wants their kids to do what they want. Unless what their kid wants is to go out for football. That is not okay because its not free thinking, despite the fact that the child chose the sport by thinking for himself.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR Gendless Child : You can edit it, I don't think people will care. But for what it's worth, I read it as Genderless :)
Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]
Sweet! Thanks :)