Smoking and Insurance

K&J64 · October 2010

I think it's kinda effed up honestly. I don't smoke anymore, haven't in several years, but unless they're going to do the same for people who drink every weekend, who participate in extreme sports, who eat fast food for lunch every day, or whose idea of exercise is lifting the remote, etc. I think smokers kind of get picked on, as if smoking is the only bad thing people do. Lame.

lisalou402 · October 2010

I think it's a hard line to enforce because it does open other doors. I had this discussion once with someone who believe that homosexuals should have to pay more for insurance because the risk of HIV is higher in that community. That conversation didn't go so well as we ventured into other areas like obesity and alcohol.

Smoking is one of those things that is cut and dry. Has anyone seen cigarette packages in Canada? They all have bad pictures of lungs with cancer or bad hearts. Scary.

With drinking, it's hard to say because someone who drinks a case a beer every night is probably going to have different issues that someone drinking 2 glasses of red wine a night....who is also different than someone drinking scotch every night.

J&K10910 · October 2010

Led, you're not being a butt at all, you're actually supporting my point that it would be incredibly difficult to prove someone smoked in the last two years if they had not smoked for say a week or so.

Celles · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:166af4b7-51c7-49a3-89af-e47d98c97f17">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : I would think it's obvious that no one is going to punish someone for being overweight when the cause is genetic/medical. <strong>And if you're adult enough to chose to eat a big mac or pizza everyday, then you're adult enough to deal with the financial and medical consequences, no?</strong>
Posted by LessThanZero[/QUOTE]

Apples to oranges.

As I said, it's easy to differentiate a smoker from a nonsmoker. Either you smoke or you don't. It's not so easy to make subjective judgment calls about how much drinking is too much or if someone is overweight for permissable reasons.

ricksang · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:a73024c7-62a4-4e1d-ac09-f1c288172f8c">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : But none of that is foolproof.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Very true. CO2 and O2 levels can be a cause of COPD, or other breathing/lung problems. It just seems unfair.

LessThanZero · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:5da3247e-e937-4dc8-81f5-e5fbe6f4486c">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : But if you tried to differentiate in order to charge them the "right" premium, you'd be requiring people to provide you with confidential medical information.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

That's true. Like I said, I'm all for this. I just don't think it's so black and white. Not every smoker gets lung cancer. Maybe I don't want to pay for the skin cancer treatments of someone who chooses to hit a tanning bed once a week either.

LedZeppelin · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:53609141-6548-45e5-a737-1be86c2a345a">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]Led, you're not being a butt at all, you're actually supporting my point that it would be incredibly difficult to prove someone smoked in the last two years if they had not smoked for say a week or so.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Yah, I see your point more now. I was thinking you meant like someone smoked that morning and then tried to lie about it that afternoon.

It would be easier to lie about it a week out, though.

dmiller9274 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:76ab295b-f23b-413f-beb6-bcfe19c9341c">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : Then don't smoke?
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

<div>I am planning to quit soon any way because we want to TTC soon after the wedding. I want to have it out of my system for a few months prior to that. But, smoking as of right now is not illegal, I've been smoking for years knowing that it will potentially cause health problems. I get that it's a choice I make, and I don't dispute that if I get lung cancer I have no one to blame but myself. But I don't think it's fair to say that a non-smoker shouldn't have to pay for the risky behaviors of a smoker, but it's ok to pay for all other risky behaviors. </div>

angkins · October 2010

My work started this rule back in July. I think it is a good rule, although ours is a year i believe. It sucks because I was a smoker (just quit 2 weeks ago), and since it hasn't been a year yet, i still have to pay it. I think if people are serious about quitting, as soon as they quit, they shouldn't have to pay it, then if they start again, they have to start paying it again. IMO.

lisalou402 · October 2010

Lessthanzero...that's a good one. I have friends who are SUN WORSHIPPERS....another friend and I just say "tanning isn't so cool".

My mother had both a malignant melanoma on her leg, and then had lung cancer.
She smoked 3 packs a day, and as a teen spent a lot of time in the sun.
That was in the 50s - 60s. She also drank and smoke when she was PG with me!
She died at age 51.

Then my grandmother smoked unfiltered Lucky's until she died at age 78.
You never know.

ricksang · October 2010

So we are going to start making people pee in a cup or draw their blood if we think they are smoking? This is bullsh!t. I am a non smoker but this seems to cross a line.

J&K10910 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:53ef48a9-4b50-4145-84b8-047db2f9a53e">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : That's true. Like I said, I'm all for this. I just don't think it's so black and white. Not every smoker gets lung cancer. Maybe I don't want to pay for the skin cancer treatments of someone who chooses to hit a tanning bed once a week either.
Posted by LessThanZero[/QUOTE]

Agree.

In theory, I like it. In practice, there are a few kinks.

Xtine22 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:f34f8f17-4c05-46c9-93ad-6191e4576e08">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : Yeah because unless you're taking smoke breaks all day - how could they know? My mom smokes. She smokes maybe 3 a day - not many - but no one knows she smokes. Everyone's always surprised when they find out. She could totally lie.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

This! However, about myself not my mom. Most of the people I work with on a day to day bases do not know I smoke.

Celles · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:3fa54f26-9b18-4dd5-9bcf-bc65cd8760e6">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it's kinda effed up honestly. I don't smoke anymore, haven't in several years, but unless they're going to do the same for people who drink every weekend, who participate in extreme sports, who eat fast food for lunch every day, or whose idea of exercise is lifting the remote, etc. <strong>I think smokers kind of get picked on, as if smoking is the only bad thing people do. Lame.</strong>
Posted by kcullen37[/QUOTE]

I promise you, it's not about picking on or otherwise punishing smokers. It's about money -- pure and simple.

Most big employers pay group rates for group health insurance. If a particular employer can prove that it promotes a smoke-free work environment, then it may be able to secure a group discount on its group policy. In other words: by minimizing the number of smokers in the group, the entire group pays less. (Have I said "group" enough in this paragraph? Because the fact that premiums are assessed on a group and paid by a group is kind of key.)

Of course, it's up to the employer to decide how to distribute the costs of its group policy. By subsidizing insurance for nonsmokers at a better rate than smokers, an employer (1) encourages employees to stop smoking, which in turn promotes the smoke-free work environment that earned the better rates to begin with, and (2) shifts the financial burden incurred by having smokers in the group <em>to</em> the smokers, which is where it rightly belongs.

dmiller9274 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:901dc67e-1f60-441e-be5b-1cdaad5c362d">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]So we are going to start making people pee in a cup or draw their blood if we think they are smoking? This is bullsh!t. I am a non smoker but this seems to cross a line.
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree, if several employees stop smoking, who do they target next?</div><div>
</div><div>I wish everyone would quit smoking so that all the tax money will have to move to sales tax or somewhere else that will impact everyone. Maybe higher gas tax. </div>

maratea · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:6abf272d-8ff2-46ad-a0d3-1d6cc1e77827">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : I am planning to quit soon any way because we want to TTC soon after the wedding. I want to have it out of my system for a few months prior to that. But, smoking as of right now is not illegal, I've been smoking for years knowing that it will potentially cause health problems. I get that it's a choice I make, and I don't dispute that if I get lung cancer I have no one to blame but myself. <strong> But I don't think it's fair to say that a non-smoker shouldn't have to pay for the risky behaviors of a smoker, but it's ok to pay for all other risky behaviors.
</strong>Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

This is a good point, and I certainly believe in it. I don't want to pay for anyone else's self-given illness, bad health, whatever. I also don't want to pay for anyone's genetic diseases, sorry if that sounds harsh and I know a person doesn't have a choice, but too bad. It wasn't their choice to get cancer, but it certainly wasn't mine and why should I have to use my money, which I may need someday to pay for my own cancer treatment. This is why I'm not a fan of socialized health care. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my doctor visits, hospital trips, etc., regardless of what illness I'm going in for.

Celles · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:6abf272d-8ff2-46ad-a0d3-1d6cc1e77827">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : I am planning to quit soon any way because we want to TTC soon after the wedding. I want to have it out of my system for a few months prior to that. But, smoking as of right now is not illegal, I've been smoking for years knowing that it will potentially cause health problems. I get that it's a choice I make, and I don't dispute that if I get lung cancer I have no one to blame but myself. But I don't think it's fair to say that a non-smoker shouldn't have to pay for the risky behaviors of a smoker, but it's ok to pay for all other risky behaviors.
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong; I don't want to pay for other risky behaviors, either! But the whole "it isn't fair..." thing comes across as really whiny to me.

LesPaul · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:786104c5-f705-4d46-a6e3-099684ba84c1">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : So, they're going to randomly nicotine test people? Or do it before they pay for services? How long does nicotine STAY in your blood? I'm not trying to be a brat to you, Les, I promise, I'm just saying I don't really feel like there's a really good way for them to prove anyone has smoked in the last 2 years if someone wanted to lie about it, you know?
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Sorry - I should have qualified that statement: The wellness plan where I work includes bloodwork for cholesterol, triglycerides, glucose, and nicotine. If we don't do the bloodwork, we aren't eligible for the wellness incentive money. I agree that they should penalize other 'risky' behaviors and not just smokers.

lisalou402 · October 2010

When you are the person who needs the health care you will realize that it's fair.

We all pay a certain amount and use it for different things. I am a type 2 diabetic, and use a lot of medication. Awesome for me and my insurance that it helps me out.

But, I'll probably never have a child and incur all the costs associated with having a baby. I pay for that as well, in my group premium.

I honestly think the only people who can say it isn't fair are people who have never been sick or used a doctor. We all use it for different things.

Celles · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:268f13a4-1ffb-43ce-a576-650185f42bcc">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : Sorry - I should have qualified that statement: The wellness plan where I work includes bloodwork for cholesterol, triglycerides, glucose, and nicotine. If we don't do the bloodwork, we aren't eligible for the wellness incentive money. I agree that they should penalize other 'risky' behaviors and not just smokers.
Posted by LesPaul[/QUOTE]

My employer does this too. Our premiums are 100% paid if we sign a smoke-free affidavit and consent to annual bloodwork. Others may find it intrusive, but I think it's a small price to pay for free health insurance in this economy.

dmiller9274 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:497da560-b15d-4c1b-86c3-64546b5dc4cc">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : My employer does this too. Our premiums are 100% paid if we sign a smoke-free affidavit and consent to annual bloodwork. Others may find it intrusive, but I think it's a small price to pay for free health insurance in this economy.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

<div>Cost is partially the reason that it ticks me off so bad. If they offered free insurance and "risky" people had to pay a portion I wouldn't disagree so much. I pay A LOT each month for insurance already and the increase is a huge increase. </div>

LesPaul · October 2010

LTZ - I like it too. I can earn up to $600 in my healthcare reimbursement account for participating in the screening program, doing organized walks or other fitness activities, talking to a health coach, and taking online nutrition courses. We also get a $25 subsidy every month for belonging to a gym or the Y. They're trying to use the carrot and not the stick by rewarding us for good behaviors. They say that our insurance costs have started to drop in the 3 or 4 years since they started doing it, so something is working.

dmiller9274 · October 2010

Les, I think your company has a pretty good program.

ricksang · October 2010

You can get Type II DM from obesity. In fact obesity is the cause of most Type II cases in this country. So, obese people are considered risky. I like Les's plan and I think positive enforcement is a lot better than negative enforcement.

ricksang · October 2010

Umm reinforcement.

ricksang · October 2010

You don't ever enjoy sweets?

Blueyed228 · October 2010

To play devils advocate here.

Just as people dont feel like paying for smokers, I dont feel like paying for people who dont work and sit home on welfare all day long but get free health care.

I also dont feel like being required to have insurance at all and getting penalized at tax time if I dont, but my state forces me to have insurance even though I am completely capable of paying out of pocket for my once a year gyno appt and once a year eye doctor appointment, and have plenty of money set aside if there was an accident or something that would require extended emergency care.

I dont like having to pay high premiums because of the percentage of overweight people who are overweight because they eat like shiit and dont exercise.

Smoking is bad for sure, but in my state at least, tobacco is taxed to high hell, but none of that money is being put toward treatment of the addiction or treatment for the health problems that may or may not come from smoking.

I just think that as long as it is legal, why should there be so many punishments for it? Drug addicts addicted to illegal drugs get free detox and rehab and medicine and no one bats an eye at it.

FWIW: My health insurance nearly DOUBLED after Obama-Care passed. I was paying 300 a month at the beginning of the year and now its at 600. It has nothing to do with the fact that I smoke.

ricksang · October 2010

I totally agree with you Blue, which isn't a surprise.

Blueyed228 · October 2010

I just think people need to worry less about what other people do in their lives. I pay for insurance, you dont have to pay for me. I dont get it through work so it doesnt effect my co-workers.

Im not breaking any laws. Insurance companies can do whatever they want. So can your company when they offer it to you. If you dont like it, get your own private insurance like the rest of us.

Im not some scumbag a$$hole because I started smoking as a kid and 15 years later have a hard time quiting.

LessThanZero · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:f0d84ab0-dc0f-4a02-ba62-997a4c44e3b4">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I just think people need to worry less about what other people do in their lives. I pay for insurance, you dont have to pay for me. I dont get it through work so it doesnt effect my co-workers. Im not breaking any laws. Insurance companies can do whatever they want. So can your company when they offer it to you. If you dont like it, get your own private insurance like the rest of us. Im not some scumbag a$$hole because I started smoking as a kid and 15 years later have a hard time quiting.</strong>
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I bolded the whole thing because it's awesome.

Smoking and Insurance

Re: Smoking and Insurance

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