Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?

jasmineh7777 · March 2010

The health care reform signing ceremony is on right now. Anyone else watching?

zippityb · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:20e394cc-4a3b-4228-b97f-3eedcc23b726">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : How is it different than requiring people to have auto insurance? My state requires that. I'm not 100% happy with the bill, but that's because I don't think it goes far enough. Single payer, all the way.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Driving is a privelege, not a right. Also, the insurance is liability, which protects other drivers.

laurenclaire1386 · March 2010

What TJ said. I don't have to have a car, but I kind of have to be alive, ya know? So the options, as I understand it are 1. pay for your own insurance (which I do) 2. pay for government subsidized health insurance 3. pay a penalty to the federal government for not carrying insurance. Not cool, federal government. The government putting a tax on being alive doesn't sit very well with me.

btrflykate1230 · March 2010

I have had health insurance, always. I've never been a day without it.

I'm 90% for this bill. I think any step towards health care reform is a good one, even if it means raising my own taxes.

After 2014 people will be fined for not having coverage. How will that reflect on middle income families? There is a provision to give the extremely poor a pass and the rich can afford what they need. The middle income families however, will either have to buy subpar care or face fines, unless there is a provision mandating the quality of insurance offered at any cost. That concerns me.

The rising cost on insurance due to obesity also worries me.

kd.joseph · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:57919bbc-73c3-4a4b-8b26-685af6a146b3">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]What TJ said. I don't have to have a car, but I kind of have to be alive, ya know? So the options, as I understand it are 1. pay for your own insurance (which I do) 2. pay for government subsidized health insurance 3. pay a penalty to the federal government for not carrying insurance. Not cool, federal government. The government putting a tax on being alive doesn't sit very well with me.
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

I knew there was a reason I liked you LC!

jasmineh7777 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:ff4987bd-4ea1-4b44-a06b-0818c572a3dc">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : Driving is a privelege, not a right. Also, the insurance is liability, which protects other drivers.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

You're right, driving is a privilege. Healthcare should be a right.

kkchisholm · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:81e853b7-5eba-43fa-b51b-7843c68cb643">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : You're right, driving is a privilege. Healthcare should be a right.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

That's for sure.

aMrsin09 · March 2010

I think the healthcare needs reform, but this isn't it and single payer, well that's a cluster waiting to happen. The US Gov't can't fix the mis-managment and corruption in the programs they already have. Not willing to trust my life to the Gov't.

I'm moving to Australia where they say I will have "free" health care. H and I will be buying the private insurance that is available down there. I preferfor my family to not be wait listed for medical treatment until they can get around to you. We'd have to buy it anyway becuase the only parts of my US ins that I ever really used aren't covered under the free system. So between the tax to cover the free ins and the private ins I need to get the stuff I need, we'll be paying MORE than I did in the states.

andyandhillary · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:efbd56fe-3191-4f69-8127-4bf29197d3bc">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : I do have health insurance. My mom sold it before she retired, so I've never gone for any length of time without it. But I've also never had any serious medical problems. I'm against the bill because it's unconstitutional. It's a forced purchase on the American public, and the federal government is far too big and far too powerful as it is.
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

This. Why should I pay for your insurance, Jasmineh? I have insurance btw and I haven't gone without insurance but no matter the sob story anyone has, unconstitutional and bad policy is just that.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · March 2010

As far as single-payer goes, it work in other countries. It works better in some than others, yes.

The government already pays for military/veteran healthcare and Medicare and Medicaid. Those are "free" to the people who get them but they come out of all of our taxes. I want in on that "free" insurance too.

laurenclaire1386 · March 2010

I do agree that insurance needs SERIOUS reform. That's where most of the problem lies for me: the shitty, money grubbing practices of insurance companies. But I don't know the specifics of the government subsidized health insurance policies, so I can't say for sure whether government insurance would be better than private. Given the federal government's propensity for screwing things up and red tape, I don't have a lot of faith that government insurance will be any better than private. Which is why I think it's a bad idea to force it down the public's throat. And as PP mentioned, this could very seriously affect the middle class. And small business owners.

zippityb · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:81e853b7-5eba-43fa-b51b-7843c68cb643">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : You're right, driving is a privilege. Healthcare should be a right.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

But this isn't about healthcare. It's about insurance. Who's to say any of us will recieve necessary, quality healthcare after all of this? Have you been to a Social Security office? Have you been to the Post Office? Have you seen how LONG people have to wait and how little the people who work there give a rat's ass?

jasmineh7777 · March 2010

You don't need to pay for my insurance Andy. I will be paying for my own. But I won't be getting it until my pre-existing conditions are covered.
Are you a libertarian *Andy? Or am I thinking of someone else?

ETA: Oops. I meant andyandhillary, not lauren.

nda_roxybabe · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:fd95ff74-1f42-4c76-923a-ad0dc1643ae5">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : But this isn't about healthcare. It's about insurance . Who's to say any of us will recieve necessary, quality healthcare after all of this? Have you been to a Social Security office? Have you been to the Post Office? Have you seen how LONG people have to wait and how little the people who work there give a rat's ass?
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

Add the DMV (or MVD if thats what you call it) to that list.

temerityjane · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:7725ec58-31fc-47c6-9d08-8d7547a71506">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE] The government already pays for military/veteran healthcare and Medicare and Medicaid. Those are "free" to the people who get them but they come out of all of our taxes. I want in on that "free" insurance too.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Ok, what size do you take in BDUs? And when can you be ready to deploy to the current warzone?

Come on now, not a fair comparison.

andyandhillary · March 2010

1. Health care isn't a right. Says who? From who? When your right to something is violating my natural right to property I have a bone to pick with you.

Jasmineh, i wrote so much in that last thread and you didn't have a single legitimate answer to any of my statements. You can disagree with me but at least read what I had said (and what others are saying). Educate yourself.

andyandhillary · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:f0e0abcb-804f-4672-ba14-4ebcefdf5da9">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]You don't need to pay for my insurance Andy. I will be paying for my own. But I won't be getting it until my pre-existing conditions are covered. Are you a libertarian *Andy? Or am I thinking of someone else? ETA: Oops. I meant andyandhillary, not lauren.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm a libertarian. All of these reforms will cost tons of money. There isn't a money fairy. It comes from me.

laurenclaire1386 · March 2010

I didn't say I didn't want to pay for your insurance, that was someone else. But yes, I am a Libertarian. My biggest thing is states' rights and this bill violates not only the federal constitution, but at least 11 state constitutions, Louisiana being one of them.

jasmineh7777 · March 2010

I see your point of view Andy, and I'm not out to change it. I am educating myself, by asking other people what they object to.
I just think that we have starkly different beliefs. I very much believe it is in our best interest to take care of one another. I am more than willing to give a little more to help someone who has a little less. I understand that a lot of people don't feel that way.. Things in my life have shaped my beliefs, as I'm sure is true with you as well. We've just arrived at different places, and that's fine.

temerityjane · March 2010

If I am going to take pokes at what everyone says, it is only fair that I throw my own thoughts out there to be poked at as well.

- I understand that for this plan to work, full buy in is required. However, requiring me to have health insurance so that someone else can also have health insurance is akin to knocking on my door and saying "your neighbors need a pink couch, so you need to go out and buy a pink couch, too."

- For those who say healthcare should be a right - free speech is a right. You enjoying your right to free speech has no effect on me, nor does my enjoying my right to free speech have any effect on you. You enjoying your "right" to healthcare would certainly have an effect on many other people as well.

- It's easy to ignore since so few of us fall within the category, but people making over $500,000 per year (I believe, I could have the exact numbers wrong at this point) will have a 1% increase in tax. Are the people making over $500,000 per year the ones without healthcare? No. But their hard earned money is going to shoulder a significant portion of the burden for those who do not have healthcare. A universal "right" shouldn't be adversely affecting the life of some more than others.

- I hate slipperly slope arguments, but this is (again, I may be slightly misinformed) the first action of its type - requiring complete buy in from everyone at a financial cost. It is not completely beyond the realm of comprehension that it could be used as an example for future blanket requirements as well.

aMrsin09 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:7725ec58-31fc-47c6-9d08-8d7547a71506">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]As far as single-payer goes, it work in other countries. It works better in some than others, yes.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Right before I left Perth the big news story was of the young mother who had a leaking aneurism and was wait listed for 6 weeks and told to not lift anything heavy "because since it hasn't burst, it isn't an emergency, it's elective surgery"

If you consider that to be "working" ok...

laurenclaire1386 · March 2010

- I hate slipperly slope arguments, but this is (again, I may be slightly misinformed) the first action of its type - requiring complete buy in from everyone at a financial cost. It is not completely beyond the realm of comprehension that it could be used as an example for future blanket requirements as well.

This as well. The passing of this bill sets a scary precedent for the federal government to continue to mandate aspects of our lives that should be left soley to our own discretion.

andyandhillary · March 2010

Ok, that's fine it's just you keep asking why people oppose it as if the bajillion reasons people have already stated weren't good enough.

Just for the record, libertarians don't hate people and want there to be mass suffering. not at all. I want to help people but i don't want anyone, including the government, telling me how to do it and taking my money from me. In fact, my free market based solutions WOULD help people. That's why I support them. As I stated in the last big thread, rational self-interest is helpful to the world.

RachNRich · March 2010

I'm not gunna lie, I think this bill is one of these "damned if we do, damned it we don't" kind of things.

If this bill weren't an issue right now, there would be a big group (not saying anyone here would be in it, but they might) that were up in arms about the amount of money the government shelled out yearly to cover the medical bills of the uninsured.

Now that the bill is an issue, people are up in arms about the required buy in. The buy-in is very minimal in comparision to the cost of a single hospital/ER visit.

I cannot imagine having gone through the last year of my life without insurance. My bills, for the last 4 months alone, total over $100 grand. The last year...well, that's probably closer to a quater of a million.

I am not going to judge the constiutionality of this bill; I haven't read it. I highly doubt anyone else here has either---it's too damn long. I just think that regardless of what happenes, or doesn't happen, there are going to be people who are upset with the decision.

jasmineh7777 · March 2010

TJ- I see what you're saying. But, are kids responsible for their own healthcare? If someone is under 18, they cannot be expected to take care of this themselves. What about people with mental health issues? I know this isn't every, or even most cases. But if it were right in front of you (collective you) would you turn away? Or would you be willing to do something to help other people who are in need?
Some people will say it is not their responsibility. Okay.

There are many shades of grey here. There is no simple solution. I think we would be stronger as a nation if we valued the health and wellness of our citizens.

nda_roxybabe · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:eb610173-61f7-4e6d-882f-7270b3f71d07">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE] I am not going to judge the constiutionality of this bill; I haven't read it. I highly doubt anyone else here has either---it's too damn long. I just think that regardless of what happenes, or doesn't happen, there are going to be people who are upset with the decision.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

Thats part of the problem imo, no one seems to really know what all it entails.

jasmineh7777 · March 2010

Andy, I didn't get to read the whole thread last time. I'll go back and read it in its entirety later. I have friends who share your political views. While we respect eachother, there isn't much we agree on. I think we're on two ends of an extreme here.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:55ae10d2-ea72-427c-aeba-9cff16a7fbcb">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : Right before I left Perth the big news story was of the young mother who had a leaking aneurism and was wait listed for 6 weeks and told to not lift anything heavy "because since it hasn't burst, it isn't an emergency, it's elective surgery" If you consider that to be "working" ok...
Posted by aMrsin09[/QUOTE]

I didn't imply Australia was one of the countries in which is DOES work. I mean places like France and Sweden.

TJ, I completely understand your point, but old people qualify for Medicare without working for the government. They get it by virtue of being a certain age and a US citizen. That's all.

And yes, I do think healthcare is a right, and someone needs to pay for it. People DIE everyday because of lack of insurance or ability to pay. Insurance companies drop people with cancer. A girl in Glendale, CA, died last year, because by the time her insurance company was ordered to reinstate her coverage it was too late. She died the next day. Oftentimes people with serious illnesses chose between not seeking care or declaring bankruptcy over $600,000 in medical bills. Some country we live in!

temerityjane · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:31857e9c-be42-4ce4-b53a-58405878a82c">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]TJ- I see what you're saying. But, are kids responsible for their own healthcare? If someone is under 18, they cannot be expected to take care of this themselves. What about people with mental health issues? I know this isn't every, or even most cases. But if it were right in front of you (collective you) would you turn away? Or would you be willing to do something to help other people who are in need? Some people will say it is not their responsibility. Okay. There are many shades of grey here. There is no simple solution. I think we would be stronger as a nation if we valued the health and wellness of our citizens.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

If you want to make me out to be heartless, that's your perogative. However - no. Other people's children, other people with mental health issues and you and those like you are not my responsibility. The fact that I make money doesn't mean that those less fortunate, financially or by other circumstances, are in any way entitled to it. The fact that I have something and you don't doesn't mean that I should suffer to ensure that you have what I have.

[Deleted User] · March 2010

I am 100% against skinless baby cow heads! Oh wait. Wrong thread. Sorry.

ac_in_dc · March 2010

The problem is that the system as it stands is broken. The status quo is that health care costs will continue to rise along with insurance premiums and medicare/medicaid goes broke in my lifetime, *without* adding coverage to any of the folks in this country currently not receiving health care. I've been at the same job for 9 years and my premiums are about 5 times what they were when I started in 2001. I can handle the rise in costs, but a lot of folks can't...more than half of all bankruptcy cases in the US are caused by medical bills.

So something's gotta give. And I respect laurenclaire's philosophical position on health insurance and health care needing to stay private and not be mandated by the government, but I disagree. The government's already taking care of the weakest, oldest, and sickest among us. I don't think this is optional; from a purely selfish perspective we need to control infectious disease at least. And the only way the health care system can afford to pony up the cash for those folks is if everyone buys in to the system.

So, I don't think the new bill does everything it needs to, but I appreciate that an effort's being made. Personally I would have liked to see more of an emphasis on controlling costs to the gov't rather than keeping the masses happy, but our system as it works right now doesn't allow for that.

Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?

Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?

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