How is this unconstitutional

Zimsgirl · November 2011

I'm not saying I agree with this article but it was posted on my month board and some are saying it's unconstitutional. I'm wondering how is forcing a name change unconstitutional?

http://gma.yahoo.com/law-require-bride-grooms-name-really-201437684.html

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

I would assume making a woman change her name to her husbands name is definitely unconstitutional. You can't just MAKE people change their name.

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

Also, I will add that I did change my name but it was hard for me. I'm still feeling sad about it.

If it was a requirement that a woman HAD to change her name then I don't think I would get married based on principal. To MAKE women shows ownership to me and I think that's ridiculous.

firsttimersluck · November 2011

TOTALLY agree that it's unconstitutional.
Name change is super outdated.. It's something that's just not necessary anymore and is only done now out of tradition and practicality of recognition (ie, if I am picking something up for my husband it's easier to prove he's my husband if we have the same last name, etc).
I would be pissed if the government wasted time and effort to pass a bill as dumb as a "required name change after marriage" bill when there are WAY more important topics to discuss.

firsttimersluck · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:b478a164-cde5-4322-b1c0-52c1e9eac2bb">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, I will add that I did change my name but it was hard for me. I'm still feeling sad about it. If it was a requirement that a woman HAD to change her name then I don't think I would get married based on principal. To MAKE women shows ownership to me and I think that's ridiculous.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

bahahahahahha

*hippies UNITE!*
I'm super bummed about changing my last name, even though I am in the process of it.
I also doubt I would get married for sheer principle.

kyrgyzstan · November 2011

I never even considered taking H's name. My grandmother was all sorts of frustrated with me because she changed her will the week of the wedding to reflect what she thought my name would be. She never even asked.

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

Also, it makes it unconstitutational if a woman has to do it but a man does not.

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:70da1282-fe19-4122-8353-19e69fc0bf84">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How is this unconstitutional : bahahahahahha *hippies UNITE!* I'm super bummed about changing my last name, even though I am in the process of it. I also doubt I would get married for sheer principle.
Posted by firsttimersluck[/QUOTE]

When I posted above that I was sad... I really meant SUPER sad. I hated changing my name. It was important to H though so that's why I did it.

I definitely wouldn't get married if someone made a woman do it and didn't make a man do it.

BinxRose · November 2011

I agree that it would be unconstitutional to force women to change their names. And I agree w/ Hike that THAT shows ownership. I mean, I want to change mine, but I'm all for women/couples making their own decisions. Some have very good reasons for keeping their name, and some have very good reasons to change their name.

firsttimersluck · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:b8b6bcfc-0301-4ad7-8844-3fe41013d441">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How is this unconstitutional : When I posted above that I was sad... I really meant SUPER sad. I hated changing my name. It was important to H though so that's why I did it. I definitely wouldn't get married if someone made a woman do it and didn't make a man do it.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

Same... Idk why he cares so much either.. His last name is a more common last name than mine is (considering the only people with my last name are people related to me because Latvians don't double over on those kinds of things). His family is CRAZY proud of their last name... I don't get it. I was talking to a guy friend of mine who said he was planning on taking his wife's last name, should he ever get married.
He explained that the woman is the one who bares the children and he doesn't find it fair/right to put HIS name on something she had to go through all the pain and physical changes for. He also recognizes that statistically, if a couple breaks up, the children tend to stay with the mom. Why would she want to keep HIS last name if they break up? Only to keep the last name the same as her children. Shouldn't that be her last name to begin with?
I totally, logically, agree.

Zimsgirl · November 2011

I want to change my name when married anyways so I guess it's not a huge deal to me but I don't see it as being unconstitutional. The constitution doesn't list rights pertaining to these so I don't see how it could be unconstitutional when it's not addressed in the constitution in the first place if that makes sense

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:bfa43003-8f2c-488a-99f0-c112d91abf6e">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]I want to change my name when married anyways so I guess it's not a huge deal to me but I don't see it as being unconstitutional. The constitution doesn't list rights pertaining to these so I don't see how it could be unconstitutional when it's not addressed in the constitution in the first place if that makes sense
Posted by Zimsgirl[/QUOTE]

Here you go:

<h2>Restrictions of the powers of the national Government:</h2><blockquote><p>(1) No exercise of powers not delegated to it by the Constitution.</p></blockquote>

Rethany · November 2011

FTL that is an interesting viewpoint! Definitely not something I had thought of. I agree that it is unconstitutional. Someone making Me change MY last name just because? And what bad is it causing from people not having the same last name that there should be a law passed for this? I will be changing my last name but I will definitely miss my current last name. I completely understand why some women do and some dont.

firsttimersluck · November 2011

Zim a name change does not affect the health and safety of anyone, so it's a personal right of the people that shouldn't be taken away. Consider it freedom of speech. I have the right to call myself whatever I wish, which includes who I am. Who I am marrying doesn't dictate who I am as an individual. It's a personal/human right. It doesn't make it any easier on the governement to require every female to change her name after marriage (in fact, it is is quite the opposite. For someone to change their name, that's a lot of energy, time, money the gov't spends) so there is no logical point in making it a law.

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:bfa43003-8f2c-488a-99f0-c112d91abf6e">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]I want to change my name when married anyways so I guess it's not a huge deal to me but I don't see it as being unconstitutional. The constitution doesn't list rights pertaining to these so I don't see how it could be unconstitutional when it's not addressed in the constitution in the first place if that makes sense
Posted by Zimsgirl[/QUOTE]

But also, the government would then be MAKINGONE specific group of people do something based on their sex.

firsttimersluck · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:94d900b6-6c2f-4515-99c6-eddde6f4a3f8">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]FTL that is an interesting viewpoint! Definitely not something I had thought of. I agree that it is unconstitutional. Someone making Me change MY last name just because? And what bad is it causing from people not having the same last name that there should be a law passed for this? I will be changing my last name but I will definitely miss my current last name. I completely understand why some women do and some dont.
Posted by spiffycoolbeans[/QUOTE]

I know I thought that was a really cool thing for him to consider and point out! Very progessive of a view... especially coming from a man on that topic.

BinxRose · November 2011

Wow FTL, that actually makes A LOT of sense for the man to change his name! I'm a little sad to change my name. It's not a common name whatsoever, and I'm kind of proud of my Eastern European heritage (especially because everyone in WI is German, German, Polish, or German). My FI's last name (and it's variations) aren't super common like Smith or Jones, but it's much more common than mine. And it's German. Sigh..... But I want to have the same last name as my kids. It was always very confusing for others while growing up because my mom remarried and has a different last name.

crownsuperstar · November 2011

I think that is just way out there. I mean really is there not enough going on in the country to worry about something like this. I think this like many things is a personal decision. For example breast feeding. I don't want to do it and I don't want to be forced to do it. Like I have said it is personal choice.

Hike & FTL- I struggled with chaning my name as well. I am an only child and there are no boys in our family (cousins wise) so I am the last of my "Last name" but it was important to H so I compromised. We will use my last name as a first name for a girl and maybe a middle name for a boy. OH when that day comes. I am also using it for my middle name now. I just could not drop it.

matcha · November 2011

Marriage isn't specifically in the Constitution. Some people argue that Article IV, section 1 would put marriage licenses under national law, because it is a status that transfers across state lines. In the end though, the Supreme Court has made marriage a national issue since Loving v Virginia in 1967, where the court deemed it appropriate for Congress to protect the national freedom of marriage. So now marriage is legally part of the national conversation.

Names and personal identification aren't specifically mentioned in the Constitution either. Perhaps they would refer to the freedom of association or freedom of expression? It is definitely against the spirit of the law, if not the words of the law.

(LetsHikeToday, I'm afraid gender equality isn't really protected by the Constitution. And remember, men have to sign up for social services but women do not! But I agree, this would be a belittling difference and would be struck down quickly.)

Zimsgirl · November 2011

Makes sense. I see that side of the argument now

SamiJoeB · November 2011

I don't think there is really room for an "opinion". It flat out IS unconstitutional. Like Chad OchoCinco or whatever... It's his right to change his name to whatever he wants and he took that to an extreme. If it were a LAW, It would be an antiquated and sexist one. I took my H's last name and I'm okay with my choice because I have male cousins to carry on our last name, and because my Grandfather, my Dad and I all have the same initials (SJB) and because H's last name starts with a B I didn't loose that. I seriously hope that doesn't become a law. I am generally a pretty conservative person, but that would really piss me off. If H and I ever get divorced, I will change my name back.

CAB1217 · November 2011

It is sooooo unconstitutional!!! Don't freakin tell me what my name should be!!! Oh, and for the record, I am changing my name, but it's MY CHOICE.

Irishcurls · November 2011

Huh, other than being ridiculously stupid to mandate and not related to being committed to each other forever, changing your name has no bearing whatsoever on another person, therefore the government cannot dictate one way or the other. Though I didn't even open the article, so maybe I'm missing something.

We actually sort of compromised, because I'm not changing my name for another year. I love my name and really love H's name for him, but don't associate with it at all AND people mispronounce it 100% of the time. So I'm in no rush. When we move and I have to get a new license and stuff I'll probably do it then. Until then, we're just as happily married.

divinemsbee · November 2011

I think as far as constitutionality goes, it might be a little 14th Amendment privacy issues with a little freedom of expression thrown in? Plus, we don't live in a country (Germany I know is one) that even regulates first names, let alone family names.

I will say that the name change thing is something that I think about all the time. I love my middle name. So much. My last name isn't particularly common, but it is, very, recognizable. I have the last name of a very very famous person, it's one letter off (it was originally spelled the same, but my grandfather changed it when he went into WW2), and sounds exactly the same. It is not a last name that I would personally use for a child's first or middle name, it's just too much. I've only really started to like my last name since I got out of school. It's common in my family to move your last name to your middle and discard your middle entirely (or, in my Mom's case, her first), but I like my middle. Both were "given" to me by my Dad, so I'm really torn.

midgetthemighty · November 2011

Can I just say how I think it's a little ridiculous that you couldn't ask for more clarification from us and decided to run off and ask another board?

Irishcurls · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:8e4a8d6f-8148-4159-889e-2a0957af811d">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]Can I just say how I think it's a little ridiculous that you couldn't ask for more clarification from us and decided to run off and ask another board?
Posted by midgetthemighty[/QUOTE]
While yes, she could have asked for clarification over there, I think it's just a good topic starter. It's not like she doesn't post here regularly, she's not bashing the June board (at least, I don't think she is....?)

LetsHikeToday · November 2011

Zims- I read what you posted on the other board.

The term unconstitutional doesn't mean it isn't written in the constitution. Just because it doesn't specifically say "name change when married" doesn't mean it wouldn't be against the spirit of the constitution.

Also, I'm a little sad to see you wouldn't care about a law MAKING women do something. Just because you want to change your name, doesn't mean all women should HAVE to change their name.

Just because I joined my bank account with my husband, doesn't mean people should HAVE to.

midgetthemighty · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:eb365182-be22-4e51-9e7a-5b9d160077ff">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How is this unconstitutional : While yes, she could have asked for clarification over there, I think it's just a good topic starter. It's not like she doesn't post here regularly, she's not bashing the June board (at least, I don't think she is....?)
Posted by Irishcurls[/QUOTE]

Good point, but she has a history of posting something and then not liking the responses she receives because they are a different opinion than her own so I'm taking this post as a bashing of the June board. Maybe I'm wrong.

Irishcurls · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:1aba973b-00bf-4107-941c-bb68d4a3e36e">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How is this unconstitutional : Good point, but she has a history of posting something and then not liking the responses she receives because they are a different opinion than her own so I'm taking this post as a bashing of the June board. Maybe I'm wrong.
Posted by midgetthemighty[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, we've had issues here too, though have mostly moved past them. I have to say, I read the thread on June thread and she DID question you guys on it. I'm not agreeing with the way she posted it, mostly because I think there are lots of reasons NOT to change it.....meh, I dont know. I totally see where you would be coming from based on history, but I'll back Zim's in this particular instance. (ETA: I disagree wholeheartedly with her stance, but back her xp'ing it. If that makes sense.)

I don't really have a dog in this fight either, so please don't take me too seriously!! :)

midgetthemighty · November 2011

Irish, I respect your opinion. I was just letting you know where I was coming from.

shan87 · November 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_this-unconstitutional?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:3bc2aca6-7ca6-48f4-888e-a8de6094e653Post:b8b6bcfc-0301-4ad7-8844-3fe41013d441">Re: How is this unconstitutional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: How is this unconstitutional : When I posted above that I was sad... I really meant SUPER sad. I hated changing my name. It was important to H though so that's why I did it. I definitely wouldn't get married if someone made a woman do it and didn't make a man do it.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

THREADJACK about Name Changing......

I also changed my name, but it was hard for me as well. I always looked forwarded to changing my name, until my Dad died. My Dad's side of the family has trouble with TTC. Only my Dad and 1 of his Brothers could (out of 6 siblings). My Dad had 4 kids but uncle only had 1. Out of those 5 only my half brother can carry on his name and its hypenehyated. Basically now my maiden name is dead. Loosing my Dad made it even more difficult. My Step Mother kept her maiden name and names from both her marriages. Her name is a cluster of multiple middle and last names.... I def didn't want that either, but having my maiden as my middle would have made my name tooooridiculouslylong for my sanity. Plus H's name includes his Mother's maiden name as ONE of his middle names. I couldn't torture our kids with a cluster F of a bagillion names. Plus if we have a boy it's going to be the 3rd. true story and good luck trying to follow that. haha

I also found out after we got married that not changing my name was a deal breaker for H.

How is this unconstitutional

Re: How is this unconstitutional

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