Wedding Customs & Traditions Forum

Episcopal/Methodist confusion

My boyfriend and I have recently begun discussing the possibility of marriage. He is a Methodist and is fairly involved in his church, more so than I have been in the past few years (I'm 26). I was raised as an Episcopalian. Although I don't attend as regularly as I'd like (I spent some time "soul-searching" during college), I identify with my denomination more so than any other. My beliefs in regards to social justice, civil rights, etc. are in line with those of the church. 
We were having a discussion about our possible wedding and I mentioned that I wasn't sure how we could fit all of the guests in my church (it is pretty small but not a big concern). He said, "Well, my church is huge so I don't know what you mean?". I had to explain that I always thought that I would be married in my own church - the one in which I was raised and had dreamed of it since I was a little girl. Also, I tried to explain that it was my understanding that traditionally the wedding would take place in the bride's church for numerous reasons. He got upset because he always thought he would be married at his church. 
  I tried to do a little research to help show him that our churches - UMC and Episcopal - were more similar than he probably thought. I always understood it as the churches were very similar to one another with the major difference being the Methodist church's emphasis on "missions" and seeing to "save" or convert others (which I personally do not agree with but understand). He basically shot down my attempts to find a middle ground and generally just ignored me and was unreceptive. 
      Basically, I'm trying to figure out how big of a problem this could be for us. I think he would come around to the idea that the wedding should take place in my church, but I think after the marriage itself I will need to make some sacrificing of my own in regards to where we as a married couple would be members. 
Does anyone have any knowledge of this or advice for maybe the fundamental differences of the Methodist and Episcopal denominations or maybe how to alleviate the situation? I know several years ago he and another girl broke it off basically because she was a Catholic and he was not okay with the idea of marrying a Catholic and the problems it might cause - however, I know that in the Episcopal church only one member of the couple has to be Episcopal. But, I was hoping we could have it in my church but have his priest share the officiating with the Episcopal one to include his personal beliefs. I don't want him to go running because of this. Thoughts? Thank you in advance. :) 
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Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion

  • Well, I guess no one should have assumed they'd be getting married in their own church once another person of another denomination was involved. Both people assumed, and both got their feelings hurt. But way better to find out now that any later.

    However, you need to find out what it is that's bothering him about it. Does he just feel like it's "tradition?" Is he trying to appease his family? Or is he very attached to his religion and will absolutely not compromise on his faith?

    The story about the Catholic girl concerns me because if religion is a deal breaker for him he should have found himself a Methodist girl.

    Hopefully this is just a family member behind the scenes or he just assumed he'd get married in the church he grew up in and you guys can work toward a compromise.
    I don't think comparing the religions is the way to go until you find out WHY he wants to be married in HIS church. Does he just want that building? Or does he want to be married in that faith?
    Either way, there are ways for interfaith couples to marry in the eyes of both churches, but you still can't be in two places at once.

    Good luck! Have a sincere conversation with him first before you start trying to prove your religions are similar.
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  • If you go to even a small even a public library, there will be books on the history of Episcopalians and Methodists that will teach you that the Methodists broke from the Episcopalians (then just Anglicans) in the mid-1700s. A competent Methodist pastor will be able to explain more to both of you.

    You are both very rare for 2012 to be sticking with your denominations into adulthood. Most Protestants switch denominations. My fiance is Catholic and I am Anglican, and religion is very important to both of us, and I worry about it, but I'm not sure I'll be able to practice my kind of Anglicanism throughout our marriage. My denomination has 0 parishes in the entire state of Illinois, for example. If we move to Illinois, I'll have to make do spiritually.

    But it's still worth it to try to have the conversations. If and when you marry, where will each of you go to church? How important is it to each of you to attend church together? If you have kids, how will you decide where they go to church? Around what age will they get to decide for themselves? How will you explain differences in belief between the 2 of you to your children? If you have to move, how will you select a new church/parish?
  • You're very smart to consider your religious views before you decide to plan a marriage.  Not just where the wedding will be but how religion will play a part in your lives and your possible future chiildren.

    I totally understand your desire to have your wedding in your own church as it's much more common to have te wedding in the bride's church rather than the groom's.  Perhaps you could settle on a church that would both accommodate both the number of guests and the difference of religions?  Or an outdoor wedding?  That's a compromise.
  • CMGr, I'm an Anglican Catholic. As the Bishop says, "Call me anything but an Episcopalian." Here's the denominational website:

    http://anglicancatholic.org/
  • Avion22Avion22 member
    5 Love Its First Comment
    edited June 2012
    If he sticks his fingers in his ears and goes "la la la I can't hear you!" whenever you try to calmly discuss both your respective religious beliefs, then he is not ready for marriage.

    I would table this discussion for a while, let the relationship grow without talking about marriage, and try again in a few months.  Maybe then he will be ready to have a calm and frank discussion about the role of religion in the future of your relationships.    You might try each attending each other's church services if you haven't already, as well as meet with each other's pastors.     
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  • pkontkpkontk member
    First Comment
    Avion has a great idea about attending each others' church services before you decide to take the next steps in your relationship.  It is clear that religion is important to both of you, which is great, and hopefully you can find a middle ground.

    My FI is a very lapsed Catholic, I was brought up in a Congregational - UCC church, where my father is a pastor.  Before we even talked about getting engaged, FI said something like "So if we get married, it will probably be in your father's church, right?"  So we knew early on that is what we would do if we decided to get married.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:777d3f67-f99b-48e0-bfc8-39cbb1dffef5">Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]My boyfriend and I have recently begun discussing the possibility of marriage. He is a Methodist and is fairly involved in his church, more so than I have been in the past few years (I'm 26). I was raised as an Episcopalian. Although I don't attend as regularly as I'd like (I spent some time "soul-searching" during college), I identify with my denomination more so than any other. My beliefs in regards to social justice, civil rights, etc. are in line with those of the church.  We were having a discussion about our possible wedding and I mentioned that I wasn't sure how we could fit all of the guests in my church (it is pretty small but not a big concern). He said, "Well, my church is huge so I don't know what you mean?". I had to explain that I always thought that I would be married in my own church - the one in which I was raised and had dreamed of it since I was a little girl. Also, I tried to explain that it was my understanding that traditionally the wedding would take place in the bride's church for numerous reasons. He got upset because he always thought he would be married at his church.    I tried to do a little research to help show him that our churches - UMC and Episcopal - were more similar than he probably thought. I always understood it as the churches were very similar to one another with the major difference being the <strong>Methodist church's emphasis on "missions" and seeing to "save" or convert others </strong>(which I personally do not agree with but understand). He basically shot down my attempts to find a middle ground and generally just ignored me and was unreceptive.        Basically, I'm trying to figure out how big of a problem this could be for us. I think he would come around to the idea that the wedding should take place in my church, but I think after the marriage itself I will need to make some sacrificing of my own in regards to where we as a married couple would be members.  Does anyone have any knowledge of this or advice for maybe the fundamental differences of the Methodist and Episcopal denominations or maybe how to alleviate the situation? I know several years ago he and another girl broke it off basically because she was a Catholic and he was not okay with the idea of marrying a Catholic and the problems it might cause - however, I know that in the Episcopal church only one member of the couple has to be Episcopal. But, I was hoping we could have it in my church but have his priest share the officiating with the Episcopal one to include his personal beliefs. I don't want him to go running because of this. Thoughts? Thank you in advance. :) 
    Posted by peony66[/QUOTE]

    Where ever did you learn this?? Being born and raised a Methodist, I have NEVER been on a "mission" or have tried to "save" anybody. It sounds like to me you both need to sit down with his pastor and your minister to get the facts about both of your religions, as you both sound very uneducated. Like CMG said, the Methodist religion is a very laid back religion.
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  • You guys really need to get on the same religious page.  H and I were raised in vastly different denominations.  When we started dating seriously, we looked for a church we were both comfortable in.  It was important to us that we be married in OUR church, not in his church or my church.  I would suggest you do the same.
  • edited June 2012
    Well, one part of Methodist theology is predestination. Which is shared with the Presbyterian church, but not the Episcopalian church, AFAIK.
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  • Very early Methodists were actually persecuted (meetings disrupted, things thrown at preachers) for having views of predestination different from the Presbyterians and Congregationalists that were the majority in New England.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:feec8744-73b0-4993-a73e-035347826901">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]About the missions - the United Methodist Church is very proud of it's work throughout the world helping people in less developed countries and in crisis situations.  This is not done for the purpose of proselytizing.  It is done to help others less fortunate.  We also help found churches throughout the world.  In all my years as a Methodist, I've never known anybody to go out knocking on doors to ask anybody to convert to Methodist beliefs.  We have enough Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses in our neighborhood that do that!
    Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]

    I guess when I see "missions" i think of the catholics where they go on there missions to "save" people. But yes the methodists do ALOT of missions, to help those less fortunate as you said. That was a mis quote on my part, but I do agree with you that I have yet to see a methodist knocking door to door!
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  • Missions - are you confusing Methodists with Mormons?

  • egm900egm900 member
    First Comment
    I was raised Lutheran, am now Catholic (Episcopals are usually grouped together with those two), with Methodist grandparents, and after my grandmother died, I had to attend church with my grandfather every week for a few years, in addition to spending major holidays there my entire life. The Methodists are very accommodating, as PP said, they go out of their way to accept others, they are very against judging anyone.  My experience with the Methodist church is that they are going to accept anyone who walks through the door with open arms, but they are not going to try to convert anyone.  As PP said, their missions aren't focusing on conversion either, it's to send aid to those in need.  The Methodist service is not nearly as formal as what you're used to, afterwards I don't really feel like I've been to church, but I'm used to pomp and circumstance.

    I think the wedding taking place in the bride's church is fairly antiquated, it's coming across that you're using that as an excuse to get your way, and I don't think either of you have really looked at the other's religion.  Have you ever even been to the Methodist church or your BF to an Episcopal?  You can read about it all you want, but I think when it comes to religion you need to actually go to a service, as each congregation does vary.  It sounds like you really need to have a discussion about how your religion will play out if you decided to get married, if you're both this set on your religion, how would you raise your children?  A Methodist minister is going to have no problem co-officiating at an inter-denominational wedding, but from my experience with the Lutherans and the Catholics, I think that's going to be a harder sell to the Episcopals. 
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:c718ff2c-8aa9-4dbf-9aae-8c237b04e7c5">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Episcopal/Methodist confusion : Where ever did you learn this?? Being born and raised a Methodist, I have NEVER been on a "mission" or have tried to "save" anybody. It sounds like to me you both need to sit down with his pastor and your minister to get the facts about both of your religions, as you both sound very uneducated. Like CMG said, the Methodist religion is a very laid back religion.
    Posted by jjolovich[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I was raised Methodist and was taught that salvation comed through the "method" in which you live your life. i.e. stewardship, etc.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:d9f7594a-b782-4c49-8131-4187984f9623">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : Do you mean predestination? 
    Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

    HA! Yes. Ugh, I need to do one thing at a time. No multitasking for me.
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  • Lisa50Lisa50 member
    5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    You and your boyfriend might benefit from taking courses in Church history (at each of your respective Churches) with one another. 
  • I agree, there's larger issues at work here.  Which church will you two be attending when you are married? Do you attend church together now? If you're going to one or the other now, it seems to me that that should be the church you marry in, rather than this "mine vs yours" fight that will probably last the rest of your lives.
  • btw random aside - as a Presbyterian (PCUSA), I've yet to meet a presby who fully follows the predestination theology. It may be official doctrine, and may be more fully believed in the PCA, but it's not very commonly held by congregants as far as I'm aware.
  • skippylouwhoskippylouwho member
    First Comment
    edited June 2012
    In the Methodist church salvation comes from believing Christ died for* your sins - not from good works ..aka "method" in which you live your life. i.e. stewardship."

    I'm saying this again to be sure I'm understood clearly.  Salvation in the United Methodist Church is by believing Christ died from your sins.  In the United Methodist Church this is the only thing required for salvation.

    Salvation in the United Methodist Church is NOT by how you live your life or by good works that you do. 

    As a human and a United Methodist you are expected to live a good life and do good works but they will NOT gain you salvation.

    *edited  - I originally typed the word from and it should be the word for. Christ died FOR your sins.
  • Does it matter to you were you go to church each week and where you'll raise your kids, or does it just matter where your wedding will take place?

    Honestly, I think the bigger question is "what happens after the wedding?" Think longer term.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:838e5d31-f882-48fd-bb4c-c4a6a4c65915">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]I am a longtime active member of the United Methodist Church.  I spent three years attending a southern private Episcopal day school with chapel every morning and religious instruction required, so I guess I'm qualified on this one. John Wesley, the founder of the United Methodist Church, was a life-long Anglican Church member (Episcopalian in the USA).  He never left his church.  He simply brought some new ideas to it.  Until the 1940's, the United Methodist Church was called the Methodist Episcopal Church, and you will see this on the cornerstones of older churches. The Methodist and the Episcopal Church have the same beliefs overall.  Their style is different.  The United Methodists are less formal is their worship. The one difference I know of is that the Episcopal Church regards marriage as a sacrament, like the Catholics do.  The United Methodist church only recognizes the sacraments of baptism and holy communion.  You will not notice this difference in your marriage ceremony.  The United Methodists also tend to shy away from artistic representations of Jesus and the Saints in their sanctuary.  Historically, the church was formed at a time when their was a reaction to the wealth, pomp and circumstance of the Anglican (Episcopal) Church. Your beliefs should be very compatible.  You do need to resolve your conflict before you marry.  This is not a fundamental difference in beliefs.  I get the impression it is more one of expectations and sentimental attachment to your church, which is understandable. PS.  The United Methodist faith is one of the most flexible that I know.  If your FI is unwilling to consider your church, he doesn't understand his own faith.  The United Methodist Church has open communion for anyone, baptized or not, who wishes to accept Jesus as their savior.  If someone who is a Christian wishes to join the United Methodist Church, they do not "convert".  They simply join. 
    Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]

    OP, I totally agree with this!! This is excellent knowledge and wisdom. I want to add that I attended a seminary with a Methodist background (not officially "Methodist" but they followed Wesleyan doctrine) and many of my professors and peers were actually Episcopalian. I had no idea that there was such a similarity in beliefs. And I want to clarify to other posters that these are not two different religions, only two denominations of the same religion. The main differences are in how the church services are conducted and what the focus is on, not the actual beliefs.

    I have always believed that the man is to be the spiritual leader of the household (see Ephesians 5:21-23 below) and so it just seemed natural to me to join my husband's church. When we first started dating, I came from a more conservative background, but H comes from a charismatic background. I learned more about his beliefs and we talked about them - they were at the forefront of our relationship b/c we both knew that we had to agree on major issues of our faith in order to be compatible. We both accepted each other's beliefs b/c they were the same, although with different emphasis.

    So in the end, I agreed to attend his church and I became a member. When we have children, we will be bringing them up in a spirit-filled, charismatic church. I encourage you to talk with your FI about this. The Bible is clear on this, so there shouldn't be any disagreement. By giving up your desire to be married in your own church, you are NOT giving up your beliefs or your traditions. There are ways to incorporate Episcopalian wedding traditions into the a Methodist wedding.



    <h3><span class="text Eph-5-21">Instructions for Christian Households </span></h3><p><span class="text Eph-5-21"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">21 </font></sup>Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.</span></p> <p><span class="text Eph-5-22"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">22 </font></sup>Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. </span> <span class="text Eph-5-23"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">23 </font></sup>For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.</span> <span class="text Eph-5-24"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">24 </font></sup>Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.</span></p> <p><span class="text Eph-5-25"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">25 </font></sup>Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her </span> <span class="text Eph-5-26"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">26 </font></sup>to make her holy, cleansing<sup class="footnote"><font size="2">[</font><a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians%205&version=NIV#fen-NIV-29331b" title="See footnote b" rel="nofollow"><u><font size="2" color="#0066cc">b</font></u></a><font size="2">]</font></sup> her by the washing with water through the word,</span> <span class="text Eph-5-27"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">27 </font></sup>and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. </span> <span class="text Eph-5-28"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">28 </font></sup>In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.</span> <span class="text Eph-5-29"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">29 </font></sup>After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—</span> <span class="text Eph-5-30"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">30 </font></sup>for we are members of his body. </span> <span class="text Eph-5-31"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">31 </font></sup>“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”<sup class="footnote"><font size="2">[</font><a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians%205&version=NIV#fen-NIV-29336c" title="See footnote c" rel="nofollow"><u><font size="2" color="#0066cc">c</font></u></a><font size="2">]</font></sup> </span> <span class="text Eph-5-32"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">32 </font></sup>This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.</span> <span class="text Eph-5-33"><sup class="versenum"><font size="2">33 </font></sup>However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.</span></p>
  • runpipparunrunpipparun member
    5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper First Anniversary
    edited June 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:d17c719a-9d96-434d-b2de-a83116b7b6a7">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : OP, I totally agree with this!! This is excellent knowledge and wisdom. I want to add that I attended a seminary with a Methodist background (not officially "Methodist" but they followed Wesleyan doctrine) and many of my professors and peers were actually Episcopalian. I had no idea that there was such a similarity in beliefs. And I want to clarify to other posters that these are not two different religions, only two denominations of the same religion. The main differences are in how the church services are conducted and what the focus is on, not the actual beliefs. I have always believed that the man is to be the spiritual leader of the household (see Ephesians 5:21-23 below) and so it just seemed natural to me to join my husband's church. When we first started dating, I came from a more conservative background, but H comes from a charismatic background. I learned more about his beliefs and we talked about them - they were at the forefront of our relationship b/c we both knew that we had to agree on major issues of our faith in order to be compatible. We both accepted each other's beliefs b/c they were the same, although with different emphasis. So in the end, I agreed to attend his church and I became a member. When we have children, we will be bringing them up in a spirit-filled, charismatic church. I encourage you to talk with your FI about this. The Bible is clear on this, so there shouldn't be any disagreement. By giving up your desire to be married in your own church, you are NOT giving up your beliefs or your traditions. There are ways to incorporate Episcopalian wedding traditions into the a Methodist wedding. Instructions for Christian Households 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing [ b ] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” [ c ] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
    Posted by 2012FutureMrsB[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Um... My FI, who has attended an IFB Baptist church and a Southern Baptist church (read: was previously VERY Biblically literal), would strongly disagree with this assessment of a woman's duty to... be assumed... into her husband's church. When we met, he told me thought it was the woman's duty to take hold of the spirituality in the household, simply because women tended to "do it better" and "care more."</div><div>
    </div><div>I don't necessarily agree with THAT either. I think that the person who's spirituality is the driving force behind getting up on a Sunday and going to church should tend to rule the day, OR the couple should compromise somehow. It seems OP doesn't really care, and therefore, I don't understand her fervor re: getting married in her childhood church, other than it's how she's always pictured her wedding. Sorry, bad reason.</div><div>
    </div><div>On the other hand, if she thinks, down the road, it will be an issue that her FI won't compromise on church for whatever reason (maybe she is actually longing to re-join her faith community and it's SUPER important to her to celebrate Holy Communion every week), then that's a larger issue that they need to work out ahead of time, and it is NOT right that she should be forced to attend his church because he has a penis.

    </div>
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  • edited June 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:acfb67bf-6a8e-400a-8424-a3c15989e9d6">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : Um... My FI, who has attended an IFB Baptist church and a Southern Baptist church (read: was previously VERY Biblically literal), would strongly disagree with this assessment of a woman's duty to... be assumed... into her husband's church. When we met, he told me thought it was the woman's duty to take hold of the spirituality in the household, simply because women tended to "do it better" and "care more." I don't necessarily agree with THAT either. I think that the person who's spirituality is the driving force behind getting up on a Sunday and going to church should tend to rule the day, OR the couple should compromise somehow. It seems OP doesn't really care, and therefore, I don't understand her fervor re: getting married in her childhood church, other than it's how she's always pictured her wedding. Sorry, bad reason. On the other hand, if she thinks, down the road, it will be an issue that her FI won't compromise on church for whatever reason (maybe she is actually longing to re-join her faith community and it's SUPER important to her to celebrate Holy Communion every week), then that's a larger issue that they need to work out ahead of time, and it is NOT right that she should be forced to attend his church because he has a penis.
    Posted by runpipparun[/QUOTE]

    Um, yeah, I agree, the whole woman being the spiritual leader b/c she's better at it, is totally bogus. In fact, it goes against scripture.

    But I want to emphasize that I'm not making this up or writing my own Bible. It's written there in black and white. The wife "submitting" to her husband means to support him, stand by his side, etc. And the part about the husband being the head of the wife - well, this isn't some mistery to be solved either. It means exactly what it says. It doesn't say the husband has to be more "spiritual" than the wife, or that he needs to be a Christian longer, it means he is the leader when it comes to faith issues. So if the husband attends one particular church, but the wife wants a different church, and if the two cannot come to an agreement, then the wife needs to support her husband's choice.

    Sometimes there is no "win" and the two sides cannot come to an agreement. That's why the Biblical standard is for the man to decided in this case - that way, there is always a resolution. Now that being said, the Bible also says the husband has to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for the church. So the husband <em>could</em> decide to sacrifice his own desire in favor of his wife's, but that decision is ultimately up to him.

    This is not a sexist solution, it is a Biblical one. Giving the husband the final say-so is actually a HUGE responsibility on the man because he has to face-up to God AND his wife. He has to try and make both of them happy.

    P.S. I want to add that since OP is not married yet, she does not <em>have</em> to honor her FI by getting married at his church, since he is not her husband yet. But if they don't work out this "little detail" soon, they will have many more problems in the future when it comes to who gets the final say.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:1a4fc36d-a22d-4fdf-93ff-e01a09686579">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : <strong>Um, yeah, I agree, the whole woman being the spiritual leader b/c she's better at it, is totally bogus. In fact, it goes against scripture. But I want to emphasize that I'm not making this up or writing my own Bible. It's written there in black and white.</strong> The wife "submitting" to her husband means to support him, stand by his side, etc. And the part about the husband being the head of the wife - well, this isn't some mistery to be solved either. It means exactly what it says. It doesn't say the husband has to be more "spiritual" than the wife, or that he needs to be a Christian longer, it means he is the leader when it comes to faith issues. So if the husband attends one particular church, but the wife wants a different church, and if the two cannot come to an agreement, then the wife needs to support her husband's choice. Sometimes there is no "win" and the two sides cannot come to an agreement. That's why the Biblical standard is for the man to decided in this case - that way, there is always a resolution. Now that being said, the Bible also says the husband has to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for the church. So the husband could decide to sacrifice his own desire in favor of his wife's, but that decision is ultimately up to him. This is not a sexist solution, it is a Biblical one. Giving the husband the final say-so is actually a HUGE responsibility on the man because he has to face-up to God AND his wife. He has to try and make both of them happy. P.S. I want to add that since OP is not married yet, she does not have to honor her FI by getting married at his church, since he is not her husband yet. But if they don't work out this "little detail" soon, they will have many more problems in the future when it comes to who gets the final say.
    Posted by 2012FutureMrsB[/QUOTE]

    Dead thread is dead, but:
    Umm, just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean it's not sexist... If I remember correctly there is also an Old Test. passage about an outspoken women being like a hog with a gold ring in it's nose.... If my H were the spiritual leader of our household, there wouldn't be any spirituality at all.
    Whoever shows the best leadership and spiritual qualities should be the spiritual leader.

    Also, OP is dealing with two religions that, similar to Catholicism, do not follow a literal interpretation of the Bible (someone correct me if I'm wrong.) The church leaders interpret passages for the congregation.

    I think telling her to join her boyfriend's church because the Bible says so it just as non-applicable as saying she can get married in her church because she's the bride and it's tradition. It's fine if that worked for you to convert and worship together, but she's having misgivings about it, hence the problem.

    OP - talk with your boyfriend, go to each other's churches together, and come to a decision TOGETHER.
    I agree with PP that if he's willing to compromise and learn this will be fine. If he "sticks his fingers in his ears" you have more issues than what church to go to for Christmas.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:46fc4ea6-b88a-41dd-9452-9bd46fd85388">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : Dead thread is dead, but: Umm, just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean it's not sexist... If I remember correctly there is also an Old Test. passage about an outspoken women being like a hog with a gold ring in it's nose.... If my H were the spiritual leader of our household, there wouldn't be any spirituality at all. Whoever shows the best leadership and spiritual qualities should be the spiritual leader. Also, OP is dealing with two religions that, similar to Catholicism, do not follow a literal interpretation of the Bible (someone correct me if I'm wrong.) <strong>The church leaders interpret passages for the congregation.</strong> I think telling her to join her boyfriend's church because the Bible says so it just as non-applicable as saying she can get married in her church because she's the bride and it's tradition. It's fine if that worked for you to convert and worship together, but she's having misgivings about it, hence the problem. OP - talk with your boyfriend, go to each other's churches together, and come to a decision TOGETHER. I agree with PP that if he's willing to compromise and learn this will be fine. If he "sticks his fingers in his ears" you have more issues than what church to go to for Christmas.
    Posted by bertke10[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>That is not true of the Episcopal church. The Episcopal church uses the "three-legged stool" metaphor of building a relationship with God: Scripture, Tradition, and Reason. We are encouraged to use our own God-given reason to interpret and to the look at the Scripture, through the lens of 2000 years of Christian traditions and within the context of today to understand God's will.</div><div>
    </div><div>We do not let our priests interpret the scripture for us. Both we and our priests consider ourselves "a thinking person's church."

    </div>
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  • Ah, thanks for the correction. My point still stands that none of these religions rely on the Bible as a literal text, and that it is open to interpretation based on that particular religion's traditional interpretation as well as modern day applications.

    Hence, relying on the husband to be the sole spiritual decision-maker based on Scripture would NOT directly apply to those religions, as Tradition and Reason need to also be considered.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:79aa7f53-0074-42b7-8248-56d2c03c9bc0">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]Ah, thanks for the correction. My point still stands that none of these religions rely on the Bible as a literal text, and that it is open to interpretation based on that particular religion's traditional interpretation as well as modern day applications. Hence, relying on the husband to be the sole spiritual decision-maker based on Scripture would NOT directly apply to those religions, as Tradition and Reason need to also be considered.
    Posted by bertke10[/QUOTE]

    And my point still stands from my earlier post that the OP is not talking about two religions. They are the SAME religion - Christianity. Just different ways of conducting their services, not different beliefs, not a different religion.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:6567cb4d-5c8b-4dd0-b4da-d49444dd7b3b">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : And my point still stands from my earlier post that the OP is not talking about two religions. They are the SAME religion - Christianity. Just different ways of conducting their services, not different beliefs, not a different religion.
    Posted by 2012FutureMrsB[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure we define "religion" and "denomination" the same way. I agree these are all  denominations of the Christian religion, fine. But that doesn't mean they all have the same beliefs. Witnesses and Catholics are both Christian religions but their beliefs and doctrine and practices are quite different.
    Just because these two particular denominations are very similar doesn't mean all their beliefs are exactly the same.

    Not that it matters how WE interpret it. OP said that her bf dumped the Catholic girl because of her "Denomination." Now, they were both Christian, but something was different enough to cause a problem for him.

    It's great that these two are very similar, but that doesn't solve OP's problem of "my church," "No, MY church!"

    Because I'm nosy, I want to know what the bf said regarding his reasons for wanting to be married in his church.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:79aa7f53-0074-42b7-8248-56d2c03c9bc0">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]Ah, thanks for the correction. My point still stands that none of these religions rely on the Bible as a literal text, and that it is open to interpretation based on that particular religion's traditional interpretation as well as modern day applications. Hence, relying on the husband to be the sole spiritual decision-maker based on Scripture would NOT directly apply to those religions, as Tradition and Reason need to also be considered.
    Posted by bertke10[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Indeedy. Denominations of Christianity can be devisive, depending upon how strictly the believer chooses to cling to their fundamentalist or progressive teachings. There are some denominations I would never marry into, if I were expected to raise my children in those denominations.</div>
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_episcopalmethodist-confusion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:7ae179fc-19d2-44b2-87a7-d1a3faaa8c0ePost:dfd786d0-1f3f-4d3e-b999-d2fe606ada96">Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Episcopal/Methodist confusion : I'm not sure we define "religion" and "denomination" the same way. I agree these are all  denominations of the Christian religion, fine. But that doesn't mean they all have the same beliefs. Witnesses and Catholics are both Christian religions but their beliefs and doctrine and practices are quite different. Just because these two particular denominations are very similar doesn't mean all their beliefs are exactly the same. Not that it matters how WE interpret it. OP said that her bf dumped the Catholic girl because of her "Denomination." Now, they were both Christian, but something was different enough to cause a problem for him. <strong>It's great that these two are very similar, but that doesn't solve OP's problem of "my church," "No, MY church!" Because I'm nosy, I want to know what the bf said regarding his reasons for wanting to be married in his church.</strong>
    Posted by bertke10[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I'm getting the feeling that it's because he's involved in his church, and she doesn't attend any church regularly.</div><div>
    </div><div>I wish people would work this stuff out beforehand. My brother, for instance, has been intending to propose for years. And he CLAIMS getting married in the Catholic church is super important to him, but he doesn't ever attend Mass, does not belong to a church, etc. Now that they're engaged, and she wants to get married next spring, suddenly he's ALL about finding a church, getting back involved, etc. Nevermind the fact that she isn't religious and has never been baptized (meaning they can't receive the Sacrament of Matrimony anyway). I'm like, Dude, brother, you have known this was coming for 3 years. Why is it so important NOW? Your faith hasn't been important to you for 3 years worth of Sundays, and now you are going to hold up your own wedding, refuse to set a date until you either find a church or decide NOT to have a religious ceremony, and in the process, drive your fiancee nuts! Seriously!! I guess this is why the Episcopal church and the Catholic church put little hurdles up if you want to be married there; they actually make you commit to being in church and stuff so that they are sure you actually care about it being a Christian marriage, and not jsut getting married physically "in a church."

    </div>
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