"If you want to live here, learn English"

jasmineh7777 · April 2010

We don't all have the same values- hence the constant debates about the role of the government, gay marriage, etc.

TheBeckmeister · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:b59cb7e6-f846-4730-880c-f06507eb7888">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I can see the point of a working knowledge of the language. Where do you suggest they learn this? Would you be in support of a program to help Spanish speakers learn English?
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

There are 26 adult ESL programs available in my home county in Columbus, OH. I would imagine there would be plenty more in larger cities.

andy71781 · April 2010

This is super interesting but I have to go to bed. Good night ladies!

louisvillebride21 · April 2010

Why do we get shiit for wanting an official language? Official language of France? French. Germany? German. Mexico? Spanish. What's wrong with having one official language? I just don't get the problem with it. Sure other languages are spoken, but I just don't see a problem with having one official language.

kate51485 · April 2010

Sarah, seriously, if nearly every time you tried to complete a business transaction, you were impeded significantly to the point where the transaction was flawed, you would not be bothered?

jasmineh7777 · April 2010

Our country is based on immigration, and yet has a history of treating immigrants badly. Several examples come to mind of a specific group being targeted and treated very poorly. I hope we stop this cycle before it happens again.

aprovencher21 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:0ff271ec-9e3d-448a-a2a7-8e97d442a03b">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Many countries in Europe have several official languages. It reflects all the different heritages of the citizens of that country. When all the Europeans came over they needed a single language so they all learned english. <strong>That is not necessary for Latinos. White people will soon lose their majority and I think its time for spanish to be recognized as a national language.
</strong>Posted by andy71781[/QUOTE]

Um no. If a ton of American immigrated to France (not saying this will happen or really could happen)....and started populating that country do you really think they'd give up French for English. I think not. Anyone moving here for an extended period of time should learn English. I also have no problem with elderly people who immigrated here recently not knowing the language. My whole family was Italian and immigrated only two generations ago....every single one of them learned English because thats what you do when you become a citizen of this country.

andyandhillary · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:adfda648-fb20-4ed4-84af-9695efa38c84">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I think the generalization about that attitude is what I'm not agreeing with. If I suddenly went to Poland, I don't think immersion would be enough.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

Immersion wouldn't help with writing but I really do stand by that it's the best way to learn a language. All of my language teachers in the past have said the same.

beatlesgirl25 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:e3bb556a-ed3f-4c4e-87ad-699448854309">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]What if they know enough English to function here decently well, but are still more comfortable taking the test in their native language?
Posted by TheBeckmeister[/QUOTE]

This reminds me of when I worked in a community health center, doing therapy with immigrants. I saw many South American women who were working on attaining citizenship, and could speak English with varying degrees of fluency. Every couple months their insurance dictated that they had to take a lengthy psych questionnaire (an outcome measure tool for the therapy). They always chose to take it in their native language, rather than in English or to have an interpreter translate the English version. There is something to be said for the things that can get lost in translation and not mean the same thing that it does in another language. The differences can be significant, at least in dealing with psychological phenomena, so I was very thankful for the questionnaires being available in many languages.

nda_roxybabe · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:1cecfe5f-e6aa-446b-8eee-bb16cfa1d2f3">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Why do we get shiit for wanting an official language? Official language of France? French. Germany? German. Mexico? Spanish. What's wrong with having one official language? I just don't get the problem with it. Sure other languages are spoken, but I just don't see a problem with having one official language.
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]
I agree. I also whole heartedly agree with blues post (except the values (although yes, some))

Blueyed228 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:3c293b6c-af96-4cba-922e-cd5dcfcc1edc">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]We don't all have the same values- hence the constant debates about the role of the government, gay marriage, etc.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I should have clarified this. What I meant by values is how society functions as a whole. Treating each other with respect, non-violence, freedoms of religion, speech etc.

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

This upset me. Having a working knowledge of English isn't necessarily the same as being able to take and pass tests written in English. I have a working knowledge of Spanish and can get around in Spanish-speaking countries, but it would be a little tough for me to pass an exam written in Spanish.

Also, even if I was living in say, Mexico and I went to a hospital, yes, it would be easier to speak in English. I don't think most people know how to properly express their health issues in different languages, even if they know some of the other language.

I'm not saying this is true of any of you ladies, but that ad didn't sound like it was coming from a place of civic concern, it sounded racist (or at least xenophobic) to me.

jasmineh7777 · April 2010

People are most receptive to learning languages at a young age. The older you get, the harder it is to absord. This is likely why children often end up helping their parents who don't speak English.

aprovencher21 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:b59cb7e6-f846-4730-880c-f06507eb7888">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I can see the point of a working knowledge of the language. Where do you suggest they learn this? Would you be in support of a program to help Spanish speakers learn English?
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I'd happily support any program that helped any legal immigrant learn English.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:59184dbc-a4b6-41d5-b1c6-fce0c28425e8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Sarah, seriously, if nearly every time you tried to complete a business transaction, you were impeded significantly to the point where the transaction was flawed, you would not be bothered?
Posted by kate51485[/QUOTE]

<div>Huh? I have never experienced this.</div>

andyandhillary · April 2010

Jasmineh, it is definitely difficult but it's much more possible than you may think. Once again, history proves my point. People learned the language. I'm not saying it was a walk in the park, but it's doable. Practice makes perfect

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

I also don't know how we're "catering" to non-english speakers by making sure they can read and understand important government documents. Hell, translating those documents probably keeps someone employed. It's no skin off my back.

sarah0725 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:59184dbc-a4b6-41d5-b1c6-fce0c28425e8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Sarah, seriously, if nearly every time you tried to complete a business transaction, you were impeded significantly to the point where the transaction was flawed, you would not be bothered?
Posted by kate51485[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking if I would be frustrated dealing with people who don't speak English well on a regular basis? If so, I have had many jobs where I've done this. I used to provide computer tech support at my undergrad college, and a lot of the people who called were super-smart international students from Asia coming over to cure cancer or something, but there was a language barrier. We worked through it.

Also, I've had occasional students in my classes who don't speak English well, so taking art history must be crazy difficult for them. Mostly I really respect them for doing something so difficult and scary.

And guys, do you really want to go around emulating France? France has its own problems lately assimilating immigrants from North Africa, and I hear there are a lot of tensions there. Also, France has a heck of a lot of imperialist blood on its hands, thanks to the nineteenth century. I don't go around all day wishing I could behave more like France.

nda_roxybabe · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:b890a43d-42c9-4681-9283-85c058a91141">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]People are most receptive to learning languages at a young age. The older you get, the harder it is to absord. This is likely why children often end up helping their parents who don't speak English.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]
Ok. So, say you moved to Sweden. You would not learn swedish? You would just expect everyone to learn and speak english for you?

louisvillebride21 · April 2010

BTW, I would also totally support programs that helped immigrants learn English. I'm not anti-immigration AT ALL. In fact, I read a book in my Intercultural Com class that really opened by eyes to everything. I recommend it, Coyotes.

jasmineh7777 · April 2010

Blue- I see what you are saying. I just don't think that having the drivers test available in spanish threatens these values in any way. The "American dream" is an iconic part of our culture. Getting a drivers license and other official paperwork is a major part of this dream. I know some Spanish, but not enough to take an official test in it. Even those with some knowledge of English may not be able to do their paperwork in English.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:b02bf21d-7c39-4f78-90ba-12158e28f1ef">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Jasmineh, it is definitely difficult but it's much more possible than you may think. <strong>Once again, history proves my point. People learned the language.</strong> I'm not saying it was a walk in the park, but it's doable. Practice makes perfect :)
Posted by andyandhillary[/QUOTE]

<div>This is false. I'd like you to prove it. Seriously. People did not always learn the language when they immigrated. That's how you ended up with ethnic neighborhoods in major cities and whole towns and even states populated by certain ethnic groups. Do you think Norwegians sat around speaking to each other in English just because they were in America?</div>

kate51485 · April 2010

Money brings up an interesting point with going to the doctor's office. When I lived in France I actually did get very ill and had to get care. I spoke the language near-fluently at the time, and was confident that I explained my problems and received the correct responses. If I could not have gotten the point across, I really don't know what I would have done. I would not have assumed that there was a doctor somewhere in town that spoke English well enough to help me.

If you are going somewhere for an extended period of time (like not just for vacation), I think for your own safety you should be able to provide for your wellbeing by being able to communicate.

What happens when you don't know how to speak English, have an emergency, and the 911 operator doesn't speak your language?

carrieoz_76 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:8246014d-efea-4e69-b2d4-ba070eeb1e64">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]America will alway be seen as a melting pot. Theres no denying that we have all nationalities of people here and its great but people came here for a reason why don't they want to learn the language? Why should everyone cater to them?
Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]
Government entities have to offer their services via multiple languages because those citizens who speak Icelandic, or whatever, have an equal right to the benefits of being a citizen as someone who speaks English. That's a good thing about our country.

But no one's making me fill out forms in another language, and frankly I benefit an awful lot by being a native English speaker, so I can live with that.

louisvillebride21 · April 2010

Sarah, I think people are just using France as an example. They're rude, I don't want to be like them! (jk!!). Sub in any other country with a national language and a strong national pride.

nda_roxybabe · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:fd65045e-17b7-45c3-816b-57cfcc938949">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I also don't know how we're "catering" to non-english speakers by making sure they can read and understand important government documents. Hell, translating those documents probably keeps someone employed. It's no skin off my back.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]
Requiring that I know spanish to work at a lot of jobs, having somethings written exclusively in spanish, pressing 1 for english....It sounds like some catering is being done.

Blueyed228 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:de80a2c1-733b-499f-b3eb-5cae20cba28e">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Blue- I see what you are saying. I just don't think that having the drivers test available in spanish threatens these values in any way. The "American dream" is an iconic part of our culture. Getting a drivers license and other official paperwork is a major part of this dream. I know some Spanish, but not enough to take an official test in it. Even those with some knowledge of English may not be able to do their paperwork in English.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I agree. But we make it easier for people to never have to learn it. Maybe it is because I have worked with alot of (admittedly) illegal immigrants who are not able to speak ANY English and it makes for a very frustrating work environment.

jasmineh7777 · April 2010

I would hope to hell that Sweden would let me do all of my paperwork in English whille I learned. I also don't think I could get to a point where I could read and write in Swedish without formal education in the language. I am not an auditory learner at all, so it would be difficult for me. I'm also only 21.
If my 80 year old Grandma moved to Sweden, I would not expect her to learn the language.

louisvillebride21 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:ce6dc775-32b5-4e34-b881-861b2e43a5fe">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Requiring that I know spanish to work at a lot of jobs, having somethings written exclusively in spanish, pressing 1 for english....It sounds like some catering is being done.
Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]
Going back to that, pressing 1 for English bothers me the most in this entire debate. Ok, I'll let you work on my dad's farm. Earn your honest living, even if you're not a citizen. But dammit, I'm not pressing 1!!!

Moneypenny424 · April 2010

I also think it is a misconception that immigrants come here and do not EXPECT to need to learn the language. Just because they aren't good at it or can't learn it doesn't mean they haven't tried. My FIL has lived in China for 5 years. He's tried hard and basically still cannot speak it.

Sure, it would be great if everyone spoke English, but I don't see that as realistic. I disagree that allowing immigrants to speak different languages creates segregation--it also promotes community involvement when people can actually communicate. If not, people are just more isolated and underground.

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