Community› Cultural Wedding Boards› South Asian Weddings
South Asian Weddings
New Discussion
Options

Swastikas?

sisterghsistergh
First Comment
in South Asian Weddings
I honestly don't know the sanskrit name for them. Yesterday FI had his thread ceremony at his apartment. When I got there, his mom had drawn swastikas on the entrance in preparation for the puja. I have tried to talk to fi about how important it is to me that we not have them at our wedding, but I am scared that because I can't micro-manage everything I'll walk in to find what look to me like swastikas as part of our decor. And that if they get drawn that his family will be bothered if someone tries to erase them. He gets it, but his parents do not listen very much and he doesn't really stand up to them, plus I don't think that they get why it's such a big deal to westerners. Has anybody run into this problem?
Report Reply to Post

Re: Swastikas?

  • Options
    Meghana55Meghana55 member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Do you think that your western crowd wouldn't know that it's actually a Hindu thing and doesn't have negative connotations in the religion?  Or do you think they would know what it really means, but still be offended?  Would someone actually try to erase them?   I think a lot of people nowadays know the origin of it and may not be totally offended by it.  Would it be on the outside of the venue and that's why you'd think people might try and erase them?If you feel strongly about it, and your FI won't say anything, I think you should bring it up to them.  As you said, they probably don't understand why it's a big deal, so maybe an explanation coming from a non-SA could convince them.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Well, for one, I think it's a big deal. I get the origins, but when it gets co-opted for something so atrocious, I just can't get over that. And I think that even if the Westerners know the origin, which a lot of them may, they won't get over it either. We also have Jewish guests who are giving up Rosh Hashanah with their families to come to our wedding - even if it weren't such a big deal to me already, that might make it a big deal. Plus, there just seem like SO many other things they could use/do. Although, considering that we aren't doing any overtly Christian decorations, I'd really prefer that we not have any semi-permanent religious decorations of any kind. Not to be tit-for-tat, but we're toning down the Christian ceremony quite a bit (per my priest's suggestion), so it might not seem like the coming together that I'd hoped for if we have lots of Hindu symbols everywhere. But really it's just that it's SOOOO bad here that there's no getting past it for most people.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    katie978katie978 member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    such an issue.  (Sidenote - I'm a discrimination atty and I'm just Waiting for this issue to come up in a case.  It amazes me that it hasn't already!)  I told FI NO WAY they could be on our invitations.  Not with dots or tilted lines or anything like that to make them "different."  I completely understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them and that they were co-opted through no fault of their own or Hinduism, but too bad!  I have no problem with them being somewhere with other symbols at the ceremony, but that's it.  I understand their significance and I can even explain it to my family, but I can't explain it to all the guests and I just don't want to have any of my guests have a moment of shock/horror at my wedding.  On the other hand, if you were both SA and the vast majority of your guests are SA, then I don't its much less of an issue.  Its usually obvious since they're with other symbols.  But just swastiks on the entryway would definitely have been too much for me too!
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I would be the person who would want to erase them. Or various other members of my family, or friends. I could see a lot of folks, me included, being pretty upset about it. It's hard not to see genocide and racial hatred for many, many folks here. Not that they would think that of the FILs, but it would really bother folks.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    Meghana55Meghana55 member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Yea I would definitely talk to them, especially if they were thinking of putting them outside the venue.  I mean I would explain it just as you have here.  And maybe you could offer up some alternate form of decor, like the use of rangoli or something.   I'm surprised that they wouldn't know that it is a big deal, however if they typically run with a primarily SA crowd and have mostly only attended SA events, they probably wouldn't think anything of it. 
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    They live in India and are just here visiting. So they run with an exclusively SA crowd. Even FI has only been here for 7 years, and he's in engineering and his friends are overwhelmingly SA. I think the problem I'll run into is just that FI's dad's a little stubborn and also they're not used to listening to children re wedding plans and especially not about Hindu things. I honestly have no clue what their plans are - I think the swastika at fi's house yesterday was pretty spontaneous.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    shilps2000shilps2000
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    our family uses the symbol during so many events in life, ive drawn one at the entrance to our home, on the hood of my car...its meant as an auspicious symbol so for us its the norm, so it may not be as spontaneous as you think if your FIs family is the same way. that being said, i completely understand your discomfort and think that it needs to be properly explained to your ILs.  it generally isnt viewed as a "decorative" item, its really more of a good luck symbol.   maybe you can come to a compromise and use another symbol, like the aum? or a drawing of a ganesh?  explain that you'll have jewish guests in attendnace and all of that, if you havent already?  GL, definitely wouldnt want any unfortunate drama on your wedding day!
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    By spontaneous, I mean that fi seemed surprised by it, so I don't think it's so common for them. Or maybe he's just slightly clueless about such things :-)
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I mentioned it again to FI today and he said he spoke to them about it yesterday.  I'm pretty sure he's starting to get that it would be pretty shocking for folks at our wedding.  I think we'll have some om symbols instead, perhaps.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    nilaniluvnilaniluv
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I know what you are talking about and as someone born in the US the only connotation that I had was with Germany and I feel that if you are having jewish guests that they will be offended esp. if they don't know. You must tell your Fiances parents beforehand because I think it can cause an issue that you shouldn't have. Can they just use other symbols? Maybe suggest something else to tie it in.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    nilaniluvnilaniluv
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    If you want I can call your FI's parents and tell them ....hahah ;)
    Report Reply
  • Options
    velveenavelveena
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I am not religious at all, but I am on the bandwagon that most sane people would realize that it is not meant to be anything but a symbol of something positive.  Hindu families may not understand why the should stop their centuries-old traditions because some modern culture decided to take the symbol and abominate it.HOWEVER, if you feel it has to go - understand that is only because you believe your guests are incapable of understanding the above.I can offer a tactic to use in convincing his parents as well.  If you explain that you will have Jewish guests and although well-meaning, the symbol has in recent times become "offensive to their religion", I think they may agree.  There are so many normal everyday things that offend my conservative Hindu parents' religion (meat, etc.), which they ask for outsiders' tolerance with, I can only imagine they would take great care not to offend anothers.
    CLICKY! FOR SALE & FREE
    imageimage
    BabyFruit Ticker
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I consider myself perfectly sane, as are (most of) our guests, and I don't see that FI's parents HAVE to put a symbol out that is so offensive to people here that drawing it is considered a hate crime. It's not as if it's the only Hindu symbol, or even the most sacred. And it's not like we need ANY symbol to celebrate the marriage. The fact is that lots of very sane people here in the US see it as a symbol of hate, through no fault of Hindus or Hinduism of course, and it is very jarring. I'd really rather not have it around on what's supposed to be the happiest day of my life. If we don't have to use it, and I really don't see why we have to, then I don't want it.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    Lil_miss_shaLil_miss_sha
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I hope you're able to convince your FILs to not put the swastika up.  It's unfortunate that a symbol that's been used by cultures and religions across the world since the Indus Valley civilizations has become unredeemable.  I completely agree that you shouldn't have to put the swastika at the wedding.  It's incredibly offensive to those who have grown up in modern western society and understand the attrocities that were associated with it.One thing to note.  I wouldn't suggest that any other symbol be put up.  All symbols aren't equal :)  The swastika has a very specific cannotation as a symbol of good luck.  Another similar symbol of good luck or removing obstacles would be an appropriate replacement if you decide to offer having a replacement.  That's why the Om wouldn't work.  Om isn't much of a symbol as it is a syllable.  (The sound present at the creation of the universe that encompases all truth within it.)  The best replacement would probably be a Ganesh symbol as the "remover of all obstacles".Sorry to be picky but depending on how religious your FILs are, they might take offense to you suggesting the wrong symbol as a replacement.  I say this because I wouldn't but I know people who would.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sisterghsistergh
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Yeah, FI actually suggested om to appease them, but I'm inclined to not replace it at all. Too many Ganeshas may offend my ridiculously Democratic Party family :-) I'll never hear the end of it if we have an elephant-themed wedding! In all seriousness, though, I think we'll avoid the swastikas, and if they decide to replace it with something else, fine, but if not, that's fine too.
    Report Reply
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards