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Wedding Vows & Ceremony Discussions
Atheist + Catholic
The ceremony is probably the scariest aspect of wedding planning to me, because I am an atheist and my fiance is a practicing catholic. I was raised catholic, and I am ok with the idea of him raising our future children as catholic, as long as they get to make their own decision about religion at some point. But how do we have a ceremony, when it is important to him to be married in the eyes of the Catholic church, but I don't want to feel like a hypocrite by "accepting god" and the like (which I seem to remeber happening in Catholic ceremonies I've seen before) during the ceremony. Is it possible to find a priest who is willing to marry us without me having to feel like a hypocrite? I want us to both be able to be ourselves during the ceremony and as we prepare for it. Any suggestions, tips, experience stories, etc would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Atheist + Catholic
If you get married in a Catholic church, you probably will have some difficulty finding someone to marry you if you aren't currently practicing. I don't know the rules and I think to some extent it varies from church to church, but many will not marry you unless both are Catholic (or at least Christian) and some require also that the MOH and BM be practicing Catholics.
I understand your position and your FI's position, but you both need to figure this out. Basically if you want your kids to be raised Catholic, then I believe you need to have gone through the Catholic marriage rite. I think otherwise you will run into problems when you try and have them baptised. I know that if you don't marry in the Catholic church, you are technically no longer allowed to partake in the sacrament or be a Godparent.
[QUOTE]You may want to post this on the Catholic board because you probably will get more accurate answers. To my knowledge, Catholic priests will not perform a Catholic ceremony outside of the Catholic church (no exceptions). A Christian priest or retired Catholic priest (who will dress in Catholic robes but is actually just acting as a JP) will do a ceremony outside of the Catholic church. However, it will NOT be considered a Catholic marriage. If you get married in a Catholic church, you probably will have some difficulty finding someone to marry you if you aren't currently practicing. I don't know the rules and I think to some extent it varies from church to church, but many will not marry you unless both are Catholic (or at least Christian) and some require also that the MOH and BM be practicing Catholics. I understand your position and your FI's position, but you both need to figure this out. Basically if you want your kids to be raised Catholic, then I believe you need to have gone through the Catholic marriage rite. I think otherwise you will run into problems when you try and have them baptised. I know that if you don't marry in the Catholic church, you are technically no longer allowed to partake in the sacrament or be a Godparent.
Posted by Jager1219[/QUOTE]
Thanks I'll post it there
We decided to have a JP marry us and are incorporating both family traditions into the ceremony and reception (breaking of the glass for him and a Polish bread, salt, and wine tradition for me). Like you, I don't care what religion that my kids are raised as long as they are raised to believe in something (I personally feel this to be important) and my family traditions continue.
I personally disagree with many Catholic teachings which is also why I'm not upset about basically excommunicating myself from the Catholic church. But make sure your FI understands what it means to not be married in a Catholic church. I would suggest that you both sit down with a Catholic priest & get all the information from him. Then you and FI have a big decision to make.
[QUOTE]<strong>The ceremony is probably the scariest aspect of wedding planning to me, because I am an atheist and my fiance is a practicing catholic. I was raised catholic,</strong> and I am ok with the idea of him raising our future children as catholic, as long as they get to make their own decision about religion at some point. <strong>But how do we have a ceremony, when it is important to him to be married in the eyes of the Catholic church, but I don't want to feel like a hypocrite by "accepting god" and the like (which I seem to remeber happening in Catholic ceremonies I've seen before) during the ceremony. Is it possible to find a priest who is willing to marry us without me having to feel like a hypocrite?</strong> I want us to both be able to be ourselves during the ceremony and as we prepare for it. Any suggestions, tips, experience stories, etc would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
You will also be expected to promise to support your husband in the practice of his faith and also support him in raising your children as Catholics. All Catholics (in theory, at least) get to choose for themselves whether they wish to remain Catholic through the sacrament of Confirmation.
The priest will be required to marry you according to the laws of the Catholic church. There's not alot of room for customizing the ceremony. You and fi will be allowed to choose readings from the bible. You will be offered a selection of greetings, prayers and music to be used at your ceremony. There's no getting around mentioning God. Here is a website with outlines of the Catholic wedding ceremony, with and without mass. <a href="http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/expect.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/expect.htm</a>
If you marry your fi outside of the church, without proper dispensation, he will not be allowed to receive the sacraments, including communion and reconciliation. That i s a very serious issue for a practicing Catholic. So you and he really need to do some soul searching before you make a decision.
You and fi should make an appointment with his priest asap, to discuss your options. You will be required to attend pre-cana, which will be a great time for you to explore how you will handle your religious differences.
I'm not sure about this, hope someone else will address this: as a former baptized Catholic, turned Atheist, you may have some extra challenges, with finding a priest who will allow you to marry in the church.
[QUOTE]You may want to post this on the Catholic board because you probably will get more accurate answers. <strong>To my knowledge, Catholic priests will not perform a Catholic ceremony outside of the Catholic church (no exceptions).</strong> A Christian priest or retired Catholic priest (who will dress in Catholic robes but is actually just acting as a JP) will do a ceremony outside of the Catholic church. However, it will NOT be considered a Catholic marriage. If you get married in a Catholic church, you probably will have some difficulty finding someone to marry you if you aren't currently practicing. I don't know the rules and I think to some extent it varies from church to church, but many will not marry you unless both are Catholic (or at least Christian) and some require also that the MOH and BM be practicing Catholics. I understand your position and your FI's position, but you both need to figure this out. Basically if you want your kids to be raised Catholic, then I believe you need to have gone through the Catholic marriage rite. I think otherwise you will run into problems when you try and have them baptised. I know that if you don't marry in the Catholic church, you are technically no longer allowed to partake in the sacrament or be a Godparent.
Posted by Jager1219[/QUOTE]
This is correct. Catholic wedding can only take places within the walls of a Catholic church.
[QUOTE]<strong>You won't be able to find a Roman Catholic priest who will marry you outside of the church</strong> because of the reasons you have stated. If you proceed, your husband will be allowed to attend mass, but will not be allowed to receive communion. Is that an issue for him?
Posted by MairePoppy[/QUOTE]
Challenge accepted.
[QUOTE]In Response to Atheist + Catholic : You will also be expected to promise to support your husband in the practice of his faith and also support him in raising your children as Catholics. All Catholics (in theory, at least) get to choose for themselves whether they wish to remain Catholic through the sacrament of Confirmation. The priest will be required to marry you according to the laws of the Catholic church. There's not alot of room for customizing the ceremony. You and fi will be allowed to choose readings from the bible. You will be offered a selection of greetings, prayers and music to be used at your ceremony. There's no getting around mentioning God. Here is a website with outlines of the Catholic wedding ceremony, with and without mass. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/expect.htm">http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/expect.htm</a> If you marry your fi outside of the church, without proper dispensation, he will not be allowed to receive the sacraments, including communion and reconciliation. That i s a very serious issue for a practicing Catholic. So you and he really need to do some soul searching before you make a decision. You and fi should make an appointment with his priest asap, to discuss your options. You will be required to attend pre-cana, which will be a great time for you to explore how you will handle your religious differences. <strong>I'm not sure about this, hope someone else will address this: as a former baptized Catholic, turned Atheist, you may have some extra challenges, with finding a priest who will allow you to marry in the church.</strong>
Posted by MairePoppy[/QUOTE]
What would those extra challenges be?
I think this is all very sad because we really don't need to "explore" how to handle our religious differences, as everything in our life is fine in that sense. We respect eachothers beliefs and there is no desire on either of our behalfs to change the other person's mind. The only problem seems to be that apparently we have no right to a ceremony that reflcects and <strong>respects </strong>both of our beliefs.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Challenge accepted.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
Seriously, you won't. The only way you will is if the priest is retired or left the priesthood. And then it still wouldn't be recognized by the church.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Seriously, you won't. The only way you will is if the priest is retired or left the priesthood. And then it still wouldn't be recognized by the church.
Posted by Jager1219[/QUOTE]
That's not going to stop me from trying. There must be <em>one </em>out there who isn't closed-minded and disrespectful to those with differing beliefs.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : That's not going to stop me from trying. There must be one out there who isn't closed-minded and disrespectful to those with differing beliefs.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
Ok - good luck. I just want you to have realistic expectations. I don't think many priests would be disrespectful to your beliefs, I just don't think you're going to find one that is willing to go against doctrine.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Ok - good luck. I just want you to have realistic expectations. I don't think many priests would be disrespectful to your beliefs, I just don't think you're going to find one that is willing to go against doctrine.
Posted by Jager1219[/QUOTE]
I do very much appreciate all of your realistic responses. (Which I can't lie, have reasurred my dislike of organized religion, not any of your faults..) I understand that I may seem unrealistic about it, but like I said, I have to try. So what if it seems crazy. I'm sorry if I come off as rude but it is very frustrating to me that one of our beliefs should have to come before the other person's beliefs. I do really appreciate that you took the time to share what you know with me.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : That's not going to stop me from trying. There must be one out there who isn't closed-minded and disrespectful to those with differing beliefs.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
This isn't a matter of being close minded or disrespectful, it is a matter of THEY WILL NOT DO THIS BECAUSE OF CANON LAW. The CHURCH will not recognize a marriage as valid unless the ceremony is performed in a church. Honestly, the only one disrespectful here is you by insisting that a priest should go against the rules of the church to accommodate you.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : This isn't a matter of being close minded or disrespectful, it is a matter of THEY WILL NOT DO THIS BECAUSE OF CANON LAW. The CHURCH will not recognize a marriage as valid unless the ceremony is performed in a church. Honestly, the only one disrespectful here is you by insisting that a priest should go against the rules of the church to accommodate you.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]
So sorry to expect that we be treated as equals in our marriage.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Ok - good luck. I just want you to have realistic expectations. I don't think many priests would be disrespectful to your beliefs, I just don't think you're going to find one that is willing to go against doctrine.
Posted by Jager1219[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It's not about being open minded or accepting, it's about actively going against their own beliefs/religious doctrine by not following their religions rules. Sort of a big deal for someone who has dedicated their life to the church...
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : So sorry to expect that we be treated as equals in our marriage.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
I'm very confused how this has anything to do with being treated as equals. You have your beliefs and a priest has theirs. As strongly as you feel about not getting married in a Catholic church, I'm certain that a Catholic priest feels just as strongly about following doctrine.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : So sorry to expect that we be treated as equals in our marriage.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
And I don't understand what this means. You will be equal in your marriage (as long as you and your FI are agreed on that...) it's not the church who gets to say who is equal or not in your marriage.Honestly, it's you being insulting to their beliefs insisting that they have to go against their religious doctrine to marry you where you want to be married (since it wouldn't be a Catholic marriage anyway in the eyes of the church, having it take place outside a church). THAT's the very root of the problem here. It's religious doctrine whether or not you or any of us disagree with it.
ETA: Ditto Jager apparently!
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : So sorry to expect that we be treated as equals in our marriage.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
How would you not be treated as equals??? You marry in the Catholic church you marry by their rules. Period. You don't want to be married in the church, find a non-denominational reverend to perform the ceremony. Your FI wants to marry in the church but you don't want to play by the Church's rules then honey you have way bigger problems than the wedding.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : How would you not be treated as equals??? You marry in the Catholic church you marry by their rules. Period. You don't want to be married in the church, find a non-denominational reverend to perform the ceremony. Your FI wants to marry in the church but you don't want to play by the Church's rules then honey you have way bigger problems than the wedding.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]
Lol ok. We are happy in our life and really are not asking for your advice. The only problem we have ever had is THIS right here. What I mean when I say unequal is that it is sad that one of us will have to sacrifice what we believe in our marriage ceremony. It's disappointing that our marriage can't be about love, and religion has to make things complicated when nothing else about our relationship has been.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Lol ok. We are happy in our life and really are not asking for your advice. The only problem we have ever had is THIS right here. What I mean when I say unequal is that it is sad that one of us will have to sacrifice what we believe in our marriage ceremony. It's disappointing that our marriage can't be about love, and religion has to make things complicated when nothing else about our relationship has been.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
That's religion for you. It's a set of beliefs, and some times they don't match up. Atheist and Catholic are a hard match up for something ceremonial since they're both so extreme (not using extreme in a bad way, just in a belief way). FI and I are getting married in a UCC Church because it's his religion (I'm generally agnostic). The good news is, the UCC is liberal enough a Church they don't care that I wasn't baptised/aren't practicing any religion. All I have to be all right with is that God plays a role in the ceremony (which I am, as I'm agnostic, not atheist). Relationships are a give and take (which I'm glad is going well in yours) but when two belief systems match up so poorly (all or nothing in Catholicism and Atheism) it's really going to have to be all or nothing. Decide where you are willing to give (is a retired priest good enough for your FI, even if the church won't recognize it as a true Catholic marriage? Are you willing to marry in the church?) it's X or Y here.
Since you say your FI is an active Catholic, it might be a good idea for you both to meet with his priest and discuss what a Catholic wedding will mean for an atheist. It's not just the vows you will have to take, including to support your H's practice of the faith and to raise any future children Catholic, it's also the pre-cana preparations you will both have to participate in before marriage as well as the premarital investigation. Both of those can involve prayer, scripture and faith-based conversations. These elements support the Catholic position that marriage is a sacrament that requires seriousness of purpose and faith-based reflection.
You aren't just considering one mass or church service. A Catholic marriage has a lot of process and requirements.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : That's religion for you. It's a set of beliefs, and some times they don't match up. Atheist and Catholic are a hard match up for something ceremonial since they're both so extreme (not using extreme in a bad way, just in a belief way). FI and I are getting married in a UCC Church because it's his religion (I'm generally agnostic). The good news is, the UCC is liberal enough a Church they don't care that I wasn't baptised/aren't practicing any religion. All I have to be all right with is that God plays a role in the ceremony (which I am, as I'm agnostic, not atheist). Relationships are a give and take (which I'm glad is going well in yours) but when two belief systems match up so poorly (all or nothing in Catholicism and Atheism) it's really going to have to be all or nothing.<strong> Decide where you are willing to give (is a retired priest good enough for your FI, even if the church won't recognize it as a true Catholic marriage? Are you willing to marry in the church?) it's X or Y here.</strong>
Posted by jessicadall[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I guess theres going to have to be a big discussion, maybe a separate, private catholic ceremony so I don't look like an idiot lying through my teeth in front of others.
this is the point i was trying to make to you in the CW thread. REligion isnt about a day or a wedding ceremony. its a life and a big part of your marriage. you will have similar problems and fights when kids come along. its not like you get past this one day and all will be well again.
this is somethign that can come between a couple. i once ended a relationship with someone because his protestant beliefs were very strong as were my catholic beliefs. i honestly should not have even dated him in the first place knowing it would never work out.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Thanks, I guess theres going to have to be a big discussion, maybe a separate, private catholic ceremony so I don't look like an idiot lying through my teeth in front of others.
Posted by geographtea[/QUOTE]
Not possible. The church will perform convolidation ceremonies but only in cases where there is a good reason that the couple did not marry in the church originally - and the good reason is usually that one or both of them have returned to practicing their Catholic faith.
[QUOTE]H & I both were raised Catholic (including 13 years of Catholic school) but now are atheists. So I'm fully educated in the Catholic doctrine about marriage, as well as your POV as an atheist. You and need to find out from your H what he wants his involvement to be with his faith in the future. If he wants to participate in the sacraments, and wants to have a "valid" marriage in the eyes of the Church, that will mean getting married by a priest in a Catholic Church, or receiving a dispensation. You as an atheist then have to decide if that is a process you are willing to go through. Your ceremony will be treated like any Catholic marrying a non-Catholic-the Catholic person will need to promise to raise the children Catholic, and you will have to promise not to interfere. Dispensations are usually difficult to receive, but the only way you can find out if it's possible is to meet with a priest. For me, as an atheist, I was not comfortable having anything remotely religious in my ceremony, I didn't even want a Unitarian official because their authority to perform marriage derives from religion. So no way could I even "declare my intent before God." Only you can decide what you are comfortable with and come to an agreement with your FI.
Posted by daria24[/QUOTE]
So glad there is finally someone who can relate. That's my problem exactly, is I can't "declare my intent before God". It just makes me roll my eyes uncontrollably. I feel terrible about it because I want my fiance to be able to continue to practice what he believes, but it really makes me sick to my stomach when I think about having a religious ceremony. And he knows that, so I guess we will have to look into that dispensation and try, try, and try again if we get denied.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheist + Catholic : Not possible. The church will perform convolidation ceremonies but only in cases where there is a good reason that the couple did not marry in the church originally - and the good reason is usually that one or both of them have returned to practicing their Catholic faith.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]
I think I have a pretty good reason.