This makes me ragey.

wadingmoose · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:c4a818ca-6e80-4c65-b4f0-f2a18ff3c145">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : I'm sure it isn't NCLB. I'm in Canada and there was a teacher who 30 years of experience a few provinces over who was suspended for giving zeros. Link: <a href="http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/alberta-teacher-suspended-for-giving-out-zeros-fears-colleague-will-be-punished-158927075.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/alberta-teacher-suspended-for-giving-out-zeros-fears-colleague-will-be-punished-158927075.html</a> I just don't get this. I'm not that far out of high school and when I was in Grade 10 somebody got a 7% (seven!) in Civics & Careers at the end of the semester. If you don't hand anything in you get a zero, it's common sense. Some people don't want to teach kids how to do poorly, which is why some areas never keep score and give you medals for participation. I also think this logic can be applied to schools with a GPA system that goes above the max (ie. a 4.3 for an A+ when 4.0 is the max GPA). There is no point to that other than trying to make people feel smarter than they are and to make the school average sound better.
Posted by Bec20[/QUOTE]

I've just moved away from Edmonton and I was apalled when I read that. I also learned that the public school system in Edmonton has the same policy, they just don't publicize it. I'd suspect it's more common than people really know. Mainly because parents would be bloody outraged.

junieolive · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:4fc91b04-0fa4-4cc6-89be-014a01826c7f">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I live in VA now, I don't know why TK went back to my old location. But I was from the Buffalo area.
Posted by Beachy730[/QUOTE
Ok. I wish there was a better designation for "upstate" new york areas. I am pretty sure TK considers anything north of NYC upstate.

baystateapple · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:cd5055c6-b43d-4fd0-826a-d909dbd921ab">Re:This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I still will never forget when BIL told me how he found out after he graduated, that a class he thought he needed to pass to graduate actually could have been failed and he still could've been fine. But he was mad because dude "I totally would've failed it if I had known" ....I just don't get that mentality. And I hardcore judged him for it.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]
Why would you ever deliberately do poorly in a class? I can see thinking "Wow, I wish I hadn't killed myself studying/writing/preparing for said class", if it wasn't something that was necessary. But to think "I would have totally failed it?" That doesn't make any sense.

abbitha7 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:2eb436a0-4108-422b-b569-306d896919c2">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]Abbitha, H is in some online classes right now at a for-profit college. I'm SHOCKED by some of the things I've seen on his chat board things. My jaw gets sore from dropping so much. I can only imagine what you've seen. But...um...I probably can't add fractions either. I'm dumb at math. BAD.
Posted by LDYGTR13[/QUOTE]

The thing that sucks is that community and for-profit colleges do not turn anyone away. They just make you take remedial courses, often multiple times, until you are at a basic level of proficiency (which is around an 11th grade level). A big problem, IMO, is advisers. They don't help steer people in directions where their talents may be of use. Instead, they just let these people tell them that they want to be doctors, when in reality that will NEVER happen. These people then fail out of school and end up in debt. What we need to do is put people in occupations that fit their abilities, not try to fit their abilities into occupations. I could go on and on about this! My H and ILs are all college educators, so we discuss this very often, haha.

As for adding fractions, I'm sure you could do it! But I get people who don't know what fractions are. I would say that in English, I teach at the 5th-9th grade level, depending on the students, and a 3rd-9th grade level in math. It's a good thing my degree is in elementary education!

Habs2Hart · June 2012

I sponsor a child in Uganda. She didn't pass her P6 (primary gr. 6) so she's repeating her year. I don't even think they hold kids back at all anymore.

abbitha7 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:884df3c8-4e32-43d7-ac75-c66ae938558a">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm so glad I was home schooled growing up. But, I have no idea what we'll do with our children. My DH doesn't support homeschooling, and the schools near the house we own are some of the worst in the state.
Posted by StefffiC[/QUOTE]

I'm in the same boat. I was homeschooled until 8th grade and having seen our school systems, I would like to homeschool. My H doesn't support that, so we're hoping to save enough to send them to private school, and then spend time with them on schoolwork at home.

musicalsunlight · June 2012

Yeah exactly bay. The school told him he needed to pass in order to graduate but I guess they made a mistake or something. But I just don't get wishing you could just do nothing and let a failing grade sit on your record.

LDYGTR13 · June 2012

Why do you guys think that *in general* parents are more apt to think their kid can do no wrong and teachers are to blame for bad grades and what not? I'm trying to analyze it, but I can't figure out what changed from when my parents raised me...

Natrasha · June 2012

Do you guys think these kinds of rules make it more likely for "good kids" to slack off or give up?

Most people here sound like reasonable people who would want their children to be held accountable for work they didn't do. But if their peers don't do the work and pass, will that affect your kid?

Teachers, is there an option for parents to work with you to be sure their kid is really learning and doing the work (ie- treat my kid the way we were treated growing up, use red ink, etc) or are your hands tied?

dumdumfroggie · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:472c9fae-cf13-40b6-9a98-d93607419664">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : My highschool had a weighted GPA, and by it I had over a 4.0, but it was used only to determine class rank. Our normal GPA was went on transcripts and stuff. There was a list of harder classes that were weighted more, but it was to prevent someone who got straight As but never took any hard classes didn't beat out the person who took every AP class in class rank. Is that not how most weighted GPA scales are?
Posted by kcscejal[/QUOTE]

<div>This is what we had as well. On transcripts, normal GPA was used, but class rank was different. I have no problem with this. If you do the same in an AP/college class as someone else does in the "normal" class, then yes, you should be ranked higher. IF you weren't there would be no point in taking the advanced classes.</div>

Bec20 · June 2012

I think part of the "don't give zeros" problem is that everybody has been taught that they're super smart and can do everything. I had a girl in my pre-International Baccalaureate geography class who thought BC was next to Ontario, when in reality 3 provinces and close to 2000km separate them. My younger sister had somebody in her class who thought Vancouver, BC and Victoria, BC were the same city so they were both the capital city. Both of these things were things you get taught in late Grade 3, early Grade 4. (It doesn't surprise me that neither of the kids in these stories made it to full-on IB, where your exams are marked by university professors from around the world.)

Sesh, it doesn't surprise me that you have people who have terrible grammar, syntax, and sentence structure in your classes. I've seen people who somehow managed to get master's degrees and teachers using the wrong there/their/they're and pluralizing words with an apostrophe s (ex. "I'm going to buy some apple's").

wadingmoose · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:27d41e14-7f86-4e07-b2ca-062f79e21483">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]Why do you guys think that *in general* parents are more apt to think their kid can do no wrong and teachers are to blame for bad grades and what not? I'm trying to analyze it, but I can't figure out what changed from when my parents raised me...
Posted by LDYGTR13[/QUOTE]

I think *in general* there's a lot of foisting of responsibility onto someone else in our culture. I'm not surprised that there is no accountability placed on children for their behaviour when there is so little accountability for actions taken by the general population.

StefffiC · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:850b546b-d7e3-412e-900d-16ae66e617c9">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : I'm in the same boat. I was homeschooled until 8th grade and having seen our school systems, I would like to homeschool. My H doesn't support that, so we're hoping to save enough to send them to private school, and then spend time with them on schoolwork at home.
Posted by abbitha7[/QUOTE]

We're hoping to homeschool for 8 or 10 years and send them to public school for 2 - 4.

I don't understand why my husband has an issue with it. He things homeschooles are socially akward and naive. I am quirky, but I would have been in special needs/learning disabled in public school, and I am just different. I think that public schools don't teach near as much as home school or private school does, and he won't go for either.

We'll see what happens when we have kids. :)

wadingmoose · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:f6957ce7-ece4-433c-bb1e-ec1812582655">Re:This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think part of the "don't give zeros" problem is that everybody has been taught that they're super smart and can do everything. I had a girl in my pre-International Baccalaureate geography class who thought BC was next to Ontario, when in reality 3 provinces and close to 2000km separate them. My younger sister had somebody in her class who thought Vancouver, BC and Victoria, BC were the same city so they were both the capital city. Both of these things were things you get taught in late Grade 3, early Grade 4. (It doesn't surprise me that neither of the kids in these stories made it to full-on IB, where your exams are marked by university professors from around the world.) Sesh, it doesn't surprise me that you have people who have terrible grammar, syntax, and sentence structure in your classes. I've seen people who somehow managed to get master's degrees and teachers using the wrong there/their/they're and pluralizing words with an apostrophe s (ex. "I'm going to buy some apple's").
Posted by Bec20[/QUOTE]

We are far too concerned with a child's self esteem over actual real life skills.

Crush their self esteem. That's a real life skill because, frankly, my boss doesn't give a flying fck about my self esteem.

HockeyFan4 · June 2012

Out of 74 students in my intro class the second half of the school year, 22 failed the course. I can count on one hand the number of parents who made contact with me about their children over the course of 5 months, which included two parent conferences, and progress reports and report cards being sent out.

Why did so many students not pass? They didn't do the work. It is that easy. People try to over think things.

Bec20 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:472c9fae-cf13-40b6-9a98-d93607419664">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : My highschool had a weighted GPA, and by it I had over a 4.0, but it was used only to determine class rank. Our normal GPA was went on transcripts and stuff. There was a list of harder classes that were weighted more, but it was to prevent someone who got straight As but never took any hard classes didn't beat out the person who took every AP class in class rank. Is that not how most weighted GPA scales are?
Posted by kcscejal[/QUOTE]

<div>I think my school might be a bit strange. We have a 12 point grading system and everything is weighted equally. However, an A+ is a 12.0 and aims for a class average of 65% (a 5.0) so nobody gets near a 12.0.</div><div>
</div><div>Moose, that doesn't surprise me about hockey arenas. Some parents here are absolutely terrible when it comes to ice sports. I'm also going to hope that we don't have many schools that have a no-zero policy, because that is just moronic. If I end up teaching in a school district like that, it will not be pretty.</div>

junieolive · June 2012

I think that parents have changed enormously since I was in school. My parents knew what my abilities were and expected me to excel at certain things. If I didn't I wasn't doing my job. They didn't think I was some extraordinarily talented child because I was their child. If my parents behaved how a majority of parents behave today I would believe that I could sing and would have been trying out for American Idol and embarassing myself when it first came on the air. It is never their precious angel's fault or responsibility. Parents have said to me in the past " I don't know what to do with "Billy"" or after receiveing multiple progress reports and report cards... "I didn't know they were failing... " or " It must be you, Sally is so smart." Parents will allow their kid to stay home when a project is due or they have a test all the time. I have kids who are absent at least 1-2 times a week (we do not have an attendance policy... ridiculous) They then blame the school when their child doesn't graduate. I am not sure why parents are different they just are.

ahhhitsshannyn · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:0c1524c6-9757-4c39-95a4-df5303dc35da">Re:This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:This makes me ragey. : We are far too concerned with a child's self esteem over actual real life skills. <strong>Crush their self esteem. That's a real life skill because, frankly, my boss doesn't give a flying fck about my self esteem.
</strong>Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]

That is a great way to put it.

baystateapple · June 2012

I don't know, LDY. I don't know what changed. My parents would have beat my ass (metaphorically, not physically) if I had tried to foist off the blame for my poor work on my teacher.

[Deleted User] · June 2012

I kind of dread the day a parent contacts me about their kid's grade. I don't know what I'd do. For now I'm going to pretend like it will never happen, though I've had professors who have mentioned it happening before.

I was/am very honest when I grade. But I think it worked, because a lot of the students said they learned more from my feedback than they ever did in HS. That makes me kind of sad, because they should have known it already.

Bec20 · June 2012

I think there still are a lot of parents who blame their child, not the teacher, if their child does poorly. I am only a few years out of high school, but the majority of teachers would certainly give zeros and there were definitely people who failed classes. I can also say that my parents and most of my friends' parents certainly made it clear that our grades were what we earned, good or bad.

I promise, not all of the younger generation is entitled. When my sister and I were playing car bingo as children we actually did get the last item needed for a bingo at the same time and we were apparently quite pissed when my mom said it was a tie, so even as a kid I clearly didn't believe this "everybody's a winner!" crap.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:27d41e14-7f86-4e07-b2ca-062f79e21483">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]Why do you guys think that *in general* parents are more apt to think their kid can do no wrong and teachers are to blame for bad grades and what not? I'm trying to analyze it, but I can't figure out what changed from when my parents raised me...
Posted by LDYGTR13[/QUOTE]

I think parenting in general has just gone soft. People stopped spanking their kids and it just slid downhill from there.

Now don't get me wrong - I don't advocate for beating the hell out of your kids when they do something wrong, but sometimes just telling them in a calm voice isn't going to cut it. If my kid sasses me, he's getting a swift swat on the behind.

Parents think that just because they don't want to discipline their kids, no one else should either.

LDYGTR13 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:7bee0a4b-1d4f-4bd2-a352-2e38bb36bb15">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : I think parenting in general has just gone soft. People stopped spanking their kids and it just slid downhill from there. Now don't get me wrong - I don't advocate for beating the hell out of your kids when they do something wrong, but sometimes just telling them in a calm voice isn't going to cut it. <strong> If my kid sasses me, he's getting a swift swat on the behind.</strong> Parents think that just because they don't want to discipline their kids, no one else should either.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I know people say that physical discipline is child abuse, but I don't see that it is. And the whole "Don't tell kids not to hit and then hit" thing never made sense to me either. My dad spanked me - with a belt. I never thought "I should go hit other people with belts b/c my dad does" <div>
</div><div>Now, I don't think I'd do the belt thing, because I just thought that was weird, but my kid will definitely be spanked and my ILs know they are expected to swat my kids (should I have them) if they deserve it. </div>

katiewhompus · June 2012

(Might be a P &R)

Our school does that simply because the grading program was written in a system that blows up if you type in 0 and doesn't accept a lower grade than 40. So you have to put in "I" for an incomplete assignment and 40 as the lowest grade (which really isn't huge, failing is failing)

Honestly, our teachers are just as bad as the students when it comes to meeting deadlines, attending trainings, etc. They are told, months in advance, with weekly warnings, that grades are due by 5pm (classes are over at 3:30) on X day. At 5:30pm we will have a line out the door of teachers wanting to know if they can still submit grades, if tomorrow will be ok, etc. Then they turn around and b*tch that the students cannot get work in on time.

midgetthemighty · June 2012

I think it boils down to parents wanting to be more like friends than parents.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · June 2012

Yeah I wouldn't do the belt thing either and if I ever saw that happen I couldn't keep my mouth shut. But I don't bat an eye when a kid gets a quick spank. You're an adult, you should be able to judge the appropriate amount of force to convey the message to your child that - Hey, I'm not going to seriously hurt you, but you're gonna be mildly uncomfortable and possibly embarrassed if you're gonna be a little shitbag.

Starqueg · June 2012

I'm in graduate school right now, for education, and listening to some of my classmates hurts my brain. I'm not perfect, and I recognize that, but at least I know how to use spell check on my computer.

I also took education classes at a community college. At first I assumed every student was a recent immigrant, due to their poor English skills. Unfortunately, many of them were actually graduates of local NYC high schools. There's constant talk about raising the graduation rate, but what good is graduating if it doesn't even prepare you for life after graudation?

Mrs.B6302007 · June 2012

slight tangent

I have mixed feelings about retention. On one hand, if you can't demonstrate that you can do the skills required to move on, then by all means, repeat. On the other hand, I've had kids in 6th grade who were pushing 14 (partly because their birthdays were early so they were already the oldest in the class) and it was NOT good for almost 14 year old boys to be mixed in with 11 year old girls. If there can be a totally separate class for repeaters, then fine.

baystateapple · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:bc14f5ce-fecf-4c07-a459-823376d2d1ed">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it boils down to parents wanting to be more like friends than parents.
Posted by midgetthemighty[/QUOTE]
Yup.

You are not a friend, you are a parent. You can be your kid's friend when s/he is 18. Until then, freakin' parent.

puppetrick · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:5a53fff1-d8da-438e-ba89-4b833b7baeab">This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I found out this weekend that I am extremely happy that we're not going to be living in this school system when we have kids. These schools don't give zeros anymore. Not even for high school kids. If you are absent for an assignment/test/project, it can't count against you. You could skip school for every test given and it can't count against you. Also, teachers aren't allowed to give less than a 50% on anything. "Students need to be given the opportunity to bring up their grades, and they can't do that if they are given anything less than a 50%." They are also one of the school districts that does the "No red pens allowed for teachers" thing. This is just...crazy. How does this teach kids responsibility? How does this teach kids to work for things? I know there are some teachers here, I'd love to hear what you think. It's got to piss you off too...right?
Posted by LDYGTR13[/QUOTE]

Ugh. I know what you mean. I work in a district where we are headed in that direction; a few of the teachers are doing that right now - nothing less than a 50% - even if you haven't done a single THING on the assignment! (They are trying out a 4-point scale) I don't even get its "reasoning" behind it. I had a professor for my master's who graded on a 2-point scale. I wrote huge responses to chapter material, and if you wrote well he would grant you a 2; if the evidence didn't suffice or you didn't finish, you at least received a 1. No turn in? - a 0. I think THAT'S better than anything, IF I were to comply with that type of grading. The kids aren't being held responsible any longer in a lot of districts. A while back, it was a huge "no-no" for teachers to write with red pen, in fear of "damaging student psyche" b/c red has a negative connotation, so teachers were asked to correct in purple or pink or green. Crazy days, I tell you.

This makes me ragey.

Re: This makes me ragey.

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