Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?

squirrly · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:d9655635-2c0a-49da-ab20-ae648d9ed012">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : I agree with this, but my personal opinion is that it's sad that the fact that many people don't care to try to make the long term changes detracts from the people that might actually require the medication to help them make the long term changes.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

That's true too. And also irritating.

I've had chronic tension headaches for a while, and they put me on meds for it a little over a year ago. I keep asking for what ELSE I can do, because I don't like being on the meds. The neurologist can't be bothered, and the ins company won't approve me to see somebody else. I forgot to take them with me when we went to Boston for Thanksgiving, and discovered that my headaches weren't any worse off the meds. So I stopped taking them, and haven't gone back. I much prefer unmedicated squirrly.

J&K10910 · February 2010

Whit, I don't think it's "not ok" to suggest to a parent that you've tried this, this, this, and this, and maybe something else is going on. But I don't think a teacher should ever suggest "go to the doctor for medication". See what I'm saying? Like I said before, I think it's important to keep parents in the know about what's going on with their kids, but I just don't think medication should ever be mentioned, unless you also have MD after your name. Suggesting seeing a doctor, yes. Suggesting seeing a doctor for meds, no.

**Mutley** · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:3bee7a23-fe4d-4402-9c07-70b783961a70">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry, just got a second to respond. Kids are in music, 3rd activity of the day. This school has a lot of activities! I'm sorry, I don't mean that I'm qualified to suggest medication. I personally will never go there with a parent, just because I'm much more willing to try other methods first. I didn't come off the way it did. I would never say, Go get your kid some ritalin. I just mean, I don't think it hurts to say, we've tried a, b, and c with the student, have you seen a doctor about the issues? A lot of the times they're supposed to be taking something and the teacher might not even know it, unless we ask. And as I've said before in other posts, I have a pretty limited experience with ADHD. What about after several intervention methods and things still aren't getting any better? Then is it ok to suggest seeing a doctor about medicine?
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

You need to look into your school district's policy for 504 or IEPs. If a student is in need of intervention methods, you should be documenting what you are doing and the effects. You should be having meetings with the parents and the special education specialist at your school to determine if the correct milestones are being met. If they are not, then the whole team should come to a decision about the next step.

Personally, I would never suggest to a parent for their child to see a doctor. I would leave this to the special education specialist. It really depends on the policy at your school/district and what resources are available to you and your student.

**Mutley** · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:e6865206-8725-497e-bc42-afd0fbca8792">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : I don't blame the teachers at all. I don't really blame anyONE party. I think everyone wants instant gratification. (YES, I'm generalizing!)
Posted by AlexiaANDRobert[/QUOTE]

This one. Maybe I am failing at reading comprehension. Good thing I don't train teachers in that area. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> haha

mandybear7 · February 2010

The majority of my frustration with this topic is that I teach at a private high school. We are not bound by typical state regulations of the 504 and IEP. My two years at this school have been filled with frustration, especially directed towards the Special Needs Director, as she does not seem to be bothered by the fact that many of the students have expired IEPs. One of my seniors has not been tested since 8th grade, yet he still receives medication.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:d9655635-2c0a-49da-ab20-ae648d9ed012">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : I agree with this, but my personal opinion is that it's sad that the fact that many people don't care to try to make the long term changes detracts from the people that might actually require the medication to help them make the long term changes.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Weird, when I first tried to quote this it took me to a quote screen from another thread.

I am of this stance as well. <em>In the cases where behavior mod/coping skills/increased awareness or insight is likely to be highly effective with or without medication</em>, I like to use this analogy: Learning new skills and making changes is hard. But it's like a muscle you haven't used much that you have to strengthen. It takes time and can be uncomfortable or painful at first, but once you've made it strong it will be a tool that is consistent, long-lasting, and under your control. Using medication to take care of your problem alone would be like taking steroids. It might make you feel better right away, but there are side effects and if you stop taking it you will also lose whatever changes it made happen for you.

J&K10910 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:8e26c9ac-8de7-4dd4-8e10-484eef21c3a2">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : Weird, when I first tried to quote this it took me to a quote screen from another thread. I am of this stance as well. In the cases where behavior mod/coping skills/increased awareness or insight is likely to be highly effective with or without medication , I like to use this analogy: Learning new skills and making changes is hard. But it's like a muscle you haven't used much that you have to strengthen. It takes time and can be uncomfortable or painful at first, but once you've made it strong it will be a tool that is consistent, long-lasting, and under your control. Using medication to take care of your problem alone would be like taking steroids. It might make you feel better right away, but there are side effects and if you stop taking it you will also lose whatever changes it made happen for you.
Posted by beatlesgirl25[/QUOTE]

<3

AlexiaANDRobert · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:4a15d58c-0591-4806-ac78-fdd199f6eade">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]The majority of my frustration with this topic is that I teach at a private high school. We are not bound by typical state regulations of the 504 and IEP. My two years at this school has been filled with frustration, especially directed towards the Special Needs Director, as she does not seem to be bothered by the fact that many of the students have expired IEPs. One of my seniors has not been tested since 8th grade, yet he still receives medication.
Posted by mandybear7[/QUOTE]

THAT is what pisses me off.

AlexiaANDRobert · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:8e26c9ac-8de7-4dd4-8e10-484eef21c3a2">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions? : Weird, when I first tried to quote this it took me to a quote screen from another thread. I am of this stance as well. In the cases where behavior mod/coping skills/increased awareness or insight is likely to be highly effective with or without medication , I like to use this analogy: Learning new skills and making changes is hard. But it's like a muscle you haven't used much that you have to strengthen. It takes time and can be uncomfortable or painful at first, but once you've made it strong it will be a tool that is consistent, long-lasting, and under your control. Using medication to take care of your problem alone would be like taking steroids. It might make you feel better right away, but there are side effects and if you stop taking it you will also lose whatever changes it made happen for you.
Posted by beatlesgirl25[/QUOTE]

Well said.

Coworker just told me she raised her son's dosage, the one with ODD... I know nothing about this, but I'd think you'd find out what causes the ODD and figure it out from there, not just automatically raise is ADHD med dosage.

kmurr010 · February 2010

When I was in college, I learned the ABC method for behavior modification. A is for Antecedent- what causes the behavior? what happens before the behavior that may trigger...B- the behavior. What is it?...and then C-consequence. What happens after the behavior? and is it effective?

Teachers are supposed to make note of this when recommending a behavior modification plan, so that way they have a leg to stand on. SOmetimes kids have behavior problems before they have an IEP or a 504 plan, so this helps lay out whats going on and whats the problem. I find it pretty effective, although sometimes time consuming. I generally speak to a special ed teacher to have an observation of the child and see what they think. It's all informal, because I'm not an expert and don't want to jump the gun usually.

Another note...teachers don't always know what students take. It is technically against the law to ask a child what medicine they take or if they have even taken it that day. It's considered an invasion of privacy. Teachers are pretty limited on what they can do.

AlexiaANDRobert · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_parents-school-aged-children-wdyt-opinions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5c9a9d6e-b500-4070-bf87-5c4e66adebcdPost:3bee7a23-fe4d-4402-9c07-70b783961a70">Re: Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry, just got a second to respond. Kids are in music, 3rd activity of the day. This school has a lot of activities! I'm sorry, I don't mean that I'm qualified to suggest medication. I personally will never go there with a parent, just because I'm much more willing to try other methods first. I didn't come off the way it did. I would never say, Go get your kid some ritalin. I just mean, I don't think it hurts to say, we've tried a, b, and c with the student, have you seen a doctor about the issues? A lot of the times they're supposed to be taking something and the teacher might not even know it, unless we ask. And as I've said before in other posts, I have a pretty limited experience with ADHD. What about after several intervention methods and things still aren't getting any better? <strong>Then is it ok to suggest seeing a doctor about medicine?
</strong>Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

Actually, no, I don't think so.
Stop at the doctor part, don't mention the medication part.

Maybe a doctor will say: "Little Johnny should play basketball three times a week because he'd expel some energy and pay more attention in Math class." or "Have you considered letting him do art so he can use his creativity?"

I just don't think anyone other than a doctor should ever prescribe or suggest medication and even then, it should be as a last resort.

I used to tutor a girl WHILE she was doing gymnastics. She'd tumble on the trampoline as we'd do spelling, then we could sit inside and do writing. The chick just had A TON of energy.

I also have the headache situation and am still researching doctors, but am working with one who said foods/diet can play a part. Instead of taking a billion pills every day, I have a food journal to see what foods I eat and when I do and don't have a headache. It sucks, and it's a long process and the results vary, but we're working on it.

crfische · February 2010

Wow. Just....wow.

deepcovejackie · February 2010

It does seem as stated in the OP that 16/24 kids on meds for ADHD does seem very high... Is she working in special education or learning assistance or something like that?

ADHD is frequently misdiagnosed if left in untrained hands. Before a diagnosis is made, a full pycho-educational evaluation of the child should be done. These are expensive and not always covered by insurance. I think that's where the guessing game starts regarding medication and diagosis.

In addition, child anxiety and depressive disorders are frequently mistaken for ADHD. So is boredom.

Having said that, my brother had ADHD, and it's a real problem!

J&K10910 · February 2010

Fishy, I do so wish you'd tell us how you really feel.

ggmae · February 2010

Nope Coco. Different kid. Thankfully he has never done that.

crfische · February 2010

I can't. I really, really can't.

J&K10910 · February 2010

How was/is your training? Because it sounds fascinating. Am I a nerd?

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

You're not a nerd, J&K (or maybe I am too). I thought it sounded really interesting as well. I am jealous.

J&K10910 · February 2010

Something like that would be super useful for me with the girls I'll be working with. I want. I LOVE trainings like that. I'm weird.

crfische · February 2010

OOOOO!! It was AWESOME. Super awesome.

Evidence based TF CBT training. In vivo stuff, trauma narratives, achenbach, trauma symptoms checklists...you know. Good stuff.

I was gonna page you two to ask you about what you thought about it.

J&K10910 · February 2010

Gah, I'm jealous. I'll get some opportunities for trainings like that, which is awesome, but I don't know if it will be anything that cool. Not that there's anything cool about trauma

But you know what I mean.

crfische · February 2010

RIGHT!? And it's actually just a 12-16 week process, which is amazing, but they are getting such good results. ND actually has a treatment collaborative with about 100 providers that they are trying to "certify" so to speak.

We have consultation calls weekly for the next 6 months. Pretty awesome stuff.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

That does sound really awesome, and applicable to J&K's girls. I'm not too familiar with Achenbach, but narrative theory fascinates me and I like DBT (which this all reminds me of). Fishy, is the expectation that you guys will incorporate these techniques into your current work? Do you think the application is different in a residential/inpatient environment vs. outpatient? I don't have much exposure to the former, so I'm very curious.

crfische · February 2010

I'll PM you the website.

J&K10910 · February 2010

That's really cool!

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

Thanks! In the meantime I'll continue to live vicariously through you two (clinically, anyway).

J&K10910 · February 2010

Oohh...going to check it out!

J&K10910 · February 2010

I got it before you deleted.

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

Aw. Just reading their whole mission statement makes me warm and fuzzy. I'm digging this collaborative, it sounds very progressive.

crfische · February 2010

I'm pretty stoked about it.

I did the SPARCS training in the fall, and that was pretty awesome, too. It's like...DBT with an emphasis on trauma and mindfulness.

Parents and school aged children. WDYT? Opinions?

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