Atheists in church?

AdeleDazeem · May 2012

OP, I was raised Lutheran - baptized, confirmed, card-carrying Lutheran. I can answer any questions you'd like to know about it. I'm not currently involved in my church, though. It's not for me.

That being said, our ceremony was outside by the ocean. We were married by a pastor who included some God in our ceremony. In fact, being that close to nature and the beautiful words he said made me think of our ceremony as including God in a beautiful way. Not being in a church fit our beliefs (my husband is a sincerely lapsed Catholic, but also baptized and confirmed), but our pastor made sure that we were "under God" so to speak.

I'd broaden your interests from churches to how both you and your husband can include the things you want without disrespecting members of religions you don't subscribe to. Does that make sense? You can definitely still have God without being inside a church.

Blueyed228 · May 2012

Im still stuck on the fact that your FI is an Atheist and has a hard on to get married in a church.

DNAtime · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:627b461a-0eda-4336-a369-7a28e5b59271">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Im still stuck on the fact that your FI is an Atheist and has a hard on to get married in a church.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I do think its really weird. But I saw this behavior (a little bit) in my DH. We did not have a religious ceremony but had I wanted one DH would have gone with it to make his Catholic mother happy.

So really I see this behavior as classic Catholic guilt.

chelseamb11 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:df9a6df1-76d7-4472-9dfb-7d600d9b2607">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : I do think its really weird. But I saw this behavior (a little bit) in my DH. We did not have a religious ceremony but had I wanted one DH would have gone with it to make his Catholic mother happy. So really I see this behavior as classic Catholic guilt.
Posted by DNAtime[/QUOTE]

I don't get why any parent insists that their nonreligious children have a religious ceremony. Like I said before, the type and location of ceremony really has no bearing on how well the marriage goes.

AdeleDazeem · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:d295c4c1-8449-447c-b7bd-c8617fcd7881">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : I don't get why any parent insists that their nonreligious children have a religious ceremony. Like I said before, the type and location of ceremony really has no bearing on how well the marriage goes.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

I think it's comforting to some parents who truly believe that their children are married "correctly" (in their eyes). Not marrying in a Catholic ceremony if you were raised as such means that you are no longer allowed certain rites. My husband can no longer take communion now that he was married outside the church. I feel like some parents are worried about their child's spiritual well-being, so to speak.

chelseamb11 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:ffb1cfac-4e24-4e6d-80ab-ca4e63d44862">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : I think it's comforting to some parents who truly believe that their children are married "correctly" (in their eyes). Not marrying in a Catholic ceremony if you were raised as such means that you are no longer allowed certain rites. My husband can no longer take communion now that he was married outside the church. I feel like some parents are worried about their child's spiritual well-being, so to speak.
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]

Which makes total sense. But if their child won't be continuing to go to church and receive those rites anyway, isn't it a moot point?
That part makes sense though, especiall yif one person out of the couple is still practicing.

LetsHikeToday · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:627b461a-0eda-4336-a369-7a28e5b59271">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Im still stuck on the fact that your FI is an Atheist and has a hard on to get married in a church.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
Yeah, me too.<div>
</div><div>If it's important to you then I don't see why you can't just have God in your ceremony and take away the church? I also kinda agree with dmills.</div>

AdeleDazeem · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:5fd517a7-700a-47e7-a7b0-0844f20c3eec">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : Which makes total sense. But if their child won't be continuing to go to church and receive those rites anyway, isn't it a moot point? That part makes sense though, especiall yif one person out of the couple is still practicing.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

I think (and I'm guessing here!) that some parents refuse to understand or think that their children will return to their faith in the future. I don't personally have this problem, but I do come from a family of very very devout Lutherans. I've encountered similar mindsets about other topics. It's interesting, but in the end, the marrying couple needs to make the best decision FOR THEM and not do something to just please their parents.

baystateapple · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:d295c4c1-8449-447c-b7bd-c8617fcd7881">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : I don't get why any parent insists that their nonreligious children have a religious ceremony. Like I said before, the type and location of ceremony really has no bearing on how well the marriage goes.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
I hear from many parents at work who are trying to book a Catholic wedding for their grown children. It got to the point where my boss refuses to book a wedding until he speaks to the bride and groom themselves. It's usually for the reasons that Joy used -- the parents are afraid of their children living in sin or no longer being allowed to take communion, or something to that effect. I see your point -- a Catholic wedding does not a Catholic marriage make -- but that's not the way that some people see it.

Celles · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:627b461a-0eda-4336-a369-7a28e5b59271">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Im still stuck on the fact that your FI is an Atheist and has a hard on to get married in a church.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

H is agnostic but was raised Catholic, and still identifies to some extent with the Catholic Church. I don't understand it, exactly, but after A LOT of discussion (much of it heated; you know me), I've finally come to accept that he can't give up the Church entirely even though he doesn't believe in most of its teachings. It's weird.

Blueyed228 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:6a53023b-f963-41a3-bcb2-2979943bbfc2">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : H is agnostic but was raised Catholic, and still identifies to some extent with the Catholic Church. I don't understand it, exactly, but after A LOT of discussion (much of it heated; you know me), I've finally come to accept that he can't give up the Church entirely even though he doesn't believe in most of its teachings. It's weird.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

But her FI is an Atheist. She is the Agnostic. And her FI is the one who wants the church.

cheeseandrice · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:6a53023b-f963-41a3-bcb2-2979943bbfc2">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : H is agnostic but was raised Catholic, and still identifies to some extent with the Catholic Church. I don't understand it, exactly, but after A LOT of discussion (much of it heated; you know me), I've finally come to accept that he can't give up the Church entirely even though he doesn't believe in most of its teachings. It's weird.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but OP's H is atheist. Which means denouncing God completely. Although, I guess if you don't believe God exists, you'd have no problem lying in an oath to Him. I still think it's a douche move to everyone else who would be in attendance though.

LetsHikeToday · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:aec68ced-33e4-44ff-bd46-8ef3ab15bd7a">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : Yeah, but OP's H is atheist. Which means denouncing God completely. <strong>Although, I guess if you don't believe God exists, you'd have no problem lying in an oath to Him. I</strong> still think it's a douche move to everyone else who would be in attendance though.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]
That's true. I didn't think about it. Maybe he doesn't see the big deal because he doesn't believe and wants to do it for his FI. You're right. It's a douche move.

ricksang · May 2012

If you are a true atheist, you believe there is no God and I don't understand how an atheist would want to use a church, a familiar as it may be, as the place to get married since atheists usually desire separation from church in other affairs, like marriage.

My mom wishes I believed in God. She's even leaving me her Bible in her will hoping I will change my mind (I won't) but she respected our decision not to have a religious wedding ceremony.

It's disrespectful to pretend you are religious and to have a wedding in a church when you are not religious.

Celles · May 2012

Yes, I know her FI is atheist. I'm just saying that I know a few former Catholics who still identify strongly enough with their Catholic upbringings to want to involve the Church in various milestones (weddings, baptisms, etc.), in spite of no longer subscribing to the core beliefs and actually identifying as agnostic or atheist. My H is one of them. He identifies as both a pragmatic agnostic and a Catholic, and that drives me crazy because I feel like those two things are mutually exclusive. But H somehow makes a distinction between his religious beliefs (or lack thereof) and his religious upbringing, and doesn't see them as contradictory. Personally, I can't wrap my brain around it. But H is a pretty smart guy, otherwise, so I just have to trust that it somehow makes sense for him.

LetsHikeToday · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:bafa2c83-d861-4017-a711-b3d67ed55d6c">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, I know her FI is atheist. I'm just saying that I know a few former Catholics who still identify strongly enough with their Catholic upbringings to want to involve the Church in various milestones (weddings, baptisms, etc.), in spite of no longer subscribing to the core beliefs and actually identifying as agnostic or atheist. My H is one of them. He identifies as both a pragmatic agnostic and a Catholic, and that drives me crazy because I feel like those two things are mutually exclusive. But H somehow makes a distinction between his religious beliefs (or lack thereof) and his religious upbringing, and doesn't see them as contradictory. Personally, I can't wrap my brain around it. But H is a pretty smart guy, otherwise, so I just have to trust that it somehow makes sense for him.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]
But how could he identify with his Catholic belief if he is atheist and doesn't believe in God? I am not religious but I assume God is the center and basic thought of being a Catholic.

Celles · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:5b913809-9fae-4b6f-a6af-e343bec38537">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : That's true. I didn't think about it.<strong> Maybe he doesn't see the big deal because he doesn't believe and wants to do it for his FI. </strong>You're right. It's a douche move.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

H tried to use that argument on me when we were "discussing" his desire to be married in a church. He said that since I didn't believe in God, it shouldn't matter to me if I was married in a church or not, whereas since his family did believe in God, it would matter to them if we weren't married in the church. :|

cheeseandrice · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:e305fc6b-d381-46bc-ab1e-1ac2ce6f15e2">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : But how could he identify with his Catholic belief if he is atheist and doesn't believe in God? I am not religious but I assume God is the center and basic thought of being a Catholic.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

I can understand this, if he's agnostic. I mean, he hasn't completely ruled out that some form of a higher being exists (right?) Isn't agnostic more of a "I don't know. Something could exist" kind of mindset? To me, that's completely different than the atheist "God doesn't exist" point of view.

Typically, a Catholic upbringing means the church and its community are heavily involved in all major milestones of your life. I can see how it would be hard to separate from that completely. Neither H or I have a home church here, but we'd both still identify as Christians. I had a hard time not getting married in a church, even though there wasn't a church here. Every wedding I've been to growing up was in a church. Wedding = church beyond just the religion aspect.

To me, though, there's still a big difference between Celles's (?) H and the OP's FI. OP's FI has made the decision to say "nope. God does NOT exist". So if thats' the case, you've denounced your religious upbringing. I dunno. It makes sense in my head ;)

Celles · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:e305fc6b-d381-46bc-ab1e-1ac2ce6f15e2">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : But how could he identify with his Catholic belief if he is atheist and doesn't believe in God? I am not religious but I assume God is the center and basic thought of being a Catholic.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

I have <em>no idea</em>. I've asked him that many times and he has yet to answer it to my satisfaction.

I should clarify: I agree with all of you. It's just my personal experience that there are people who feel like the OP's FI, and since I'm married to one of them I try really, really hard to understand and empathize. Some of our worst fights have been over religion (and most of them are my fault, because I DON'T GET IT and not getting it makes me want to poke it with a stick until I do -- with predictable results).

LetsHikeToday · May 2012

Steph and Celles- I was meaning OP's fiance, not Celles H. Sorry!

cheeseandrice · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:6ac22fc2-fc57-41c0-b3f2-08495b6e3308">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atheists in church? : H tried to use that argument on me when we were "discussing" his desire to be married in a church. He said that since I didn't believe in God, it shouldn't matter to me if I was married in a church or not, whereas since his family did believe in God, it would matter to them if we weren't married in the church. :|
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you stuck to your guns. It's how I feel about baptising baby-to-be. It's another one of those things that feels weird not to do, because every baby I know was baptized. But, same reasoning- we don't have a church we identify with. So it feels like we'd just be 'using' someone else's religion and place of worship, and I'd feel like a fraud. (this coming from someone who still believes in God.)

[Deleted User] · May 2012

Steph, my dad is agnostic and my mom Christian, and they refused to baptize my brother and me. They said they wanted to wait until we were old enough, and let us make that decision on our own.

My brother was baptized when he was 13, and it was his decision as to when, where, and how. I'm not, and that's my decision. Drove my grandma nuts for awhile, but she's finally let it go.

DNAtime · May 2012

I think some people who were brought up Catholic, while they no longer identify with the religious teachings and belief structure feel a cultural attachment to Catholicism. The church is part of who they are culturally regardless of what they believe.

This is something I see with my DH and may not be representative of everyone but it sounds similar to OP and Celles's DH.

cheeseandrice · May 2012

That's what we'll do, too, Sesh. I've been meaning to find a new church here, because I do miss some aspects of it, like the community and tradition. H isn't opposed to it by any means, and we both agree we want to expose baby to religion, but let her decide on her own.

I have a feeling my family will be a little pissy about it too. But once we explained our reasoning for not getting married in a church, they understood. Hopefully they'll respect this decision the same.

semplesarah · May 2012

I doubt a church would have a ceremony for an Atheist . My FI is agnostic so we are doing it in an outdoor chapel. My friend got his ordained because it is important to me to be married under God, but my preacher wouldn't do it. It is important to me because I am a Christian I don't understand why the two of you want to be married in a church when it does not have any meaning to you.

eureka30030 · May 2012

Try looking into UU churches (Unitarian Universalist). They welcome all beliefs, usually you do not need to be a member/convert, and are very open. Basically they just believe that there is a God and its up to each person to reach/commune/etc. with that being in any way that works for them. Very unstructured and might resonate well with your agnostic/atheist beliefs...

Blueyed228 · May 2012

Im sorry but I have a huge problem with someone saying that "God absolutely does NOT exist" and then wanting to get married in a church. Its incredibly disrespectful. I dont care if you were raised in a church or not. You chose your belief, you dont get to play both sides.

Agnostic =/= Atheist.

cheeseandrice · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:71188146-37a2-4b57-8e5e-3d846b5ec5dd">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]Try looking into UU churches (Unitarian Universalist). <strong>They welcome all beliefs</strong>, usually you do not need to be a member/convert, and are very open. Basically they j<strong>ust believe that there is a God</strong> and its up to each person to reach/commune/etc. with that being in any way that works for them. Very unstructured and might resonate well with your agnostic/atheist beliefs...
Posted by eureka30030[/QUOTE]

...what if your belief is "God doesn't exist"?

rose.ashleymae · May 2012

If you like the 'look' of a church and are not religious, why not look into a non-denominational or historic chapel. My FI and I both believe in God, but are not adherents of a specific religion. We are getting married in an historic chapel that our small town owns, it no longer has an affiliation with the diocese (episcopal I think.) You might want to look around and see if something like that is available to you.

semplesarah · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_atheists-in-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:956710e8-cb5b-4d1e-8bdb-33d531034da6Post:d4fe5595-94c2-4428-9004-f477172862c6">Re: Atheists in church?</a>:
[QUOTE]If you like the 'look' of a church and are not religious, why not look into a non-denominational or historic chapel. My FI and I both believe in God, but are not adherents of a specific religion. We are getting married in an historic chapel that our small town owns, it no longer has an affiliation with the diocese (episcopal I think.) You might want to look around and see if something like that is available to you.
Posted by rose.ashleymae[/QUOTE]

I agree with this!

Atheists in church?

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