"If you want to live here, learn English"

smokeybailey · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:fe604082-5b77-4276-a931-dbfe77d6ff7d">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Well Regis for one. And loads of colleges offer their online courses in spanish. It is not as uncommon as you would think.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I went to their website and I found the Spanish major and minor but I didn't find anything else about the school offereing an entire degree with classes all offered in Spanish. The site doesn't even have a Spanish language selector.

Please direct me to the complete Spanish curriculum in Marketing. I have friends who would be interested in this.

smokeybailey · April 2010

Okay, I've gotta hit the sack. It's been interesting.

And, by the way, I am super patriotic. I love my country.

luckyme502 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:95f6ace0-ce3a-46a4-a55b-0d6a6302661a">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : I don't think anyone is arguing that immigrants should not lean English. At. All. I think the argument is that there should be government paperwork available in native languages. I speak Spanish but I'll be damned if I had to fill out some important paperwork in Spanish.
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]

That is why I am asking her to explain. She said some things that made little sense to me. Like we don't want to teach kids Spanish in school.

nda_roxybabe · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:266d1951-bd3d-4ee7-88b8-2f57c852b4b2">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]Okay, I've gotta hit the sack. It's been interesting. And,<strong> by the way, I am super patriotic. I love my country.</strong>
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't doubt it :)
Goodnight!

aMrsin09 · April 2010

Sorry, everyone in the house woke up.

This has been an interesting read guys. Have a good one.

nda_roxybabe · April 2010

Night Amrs

I always forget that you and I tend to agree poltically.

Blueyed228 · April 2010

Night roxy

aMrsin09 · April 2010

I can understand that. Having a fairly conservative viewpoint while living in DC taught me to kind of keep my opinions to myself, so I don't put them out there very often.

Blueyed228 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:6ea533b3-03c0-4074-bf44-ee95127a668e">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I can understand that. Having a fairly conservative viewpoint while living in DC taught me to kind of keep my opinions to myself, so I don't put them out there very often.
Posted by aMrsin09[/QUOTE]

I hear ya. Lol.

ExpatPumpkin · April 2010

I read through all of this and was happy to see some real and thoughtful debate. But I was mostly saddened to see so much lack of understanding and sympathy toward the realities of immigrants' lives in the United States.

It seems to me that most of the English-only argument is based on xenophobia and a lack of experience with learning a second language as an adult.

Also, the United States does not have an official language. Not learning English is certainly detrimental to one's economic opportunities in this country, however. That reality alone is enough to push determined immigrants to strive for fluency.

But we don't need language legislation that would create second-class citizens before they ever have the chance to succeed.

shannonalise · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:6b3e4970-f381-4600-afc1-04229063b4c4">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : You have to remind your liberal friends of patriotism? Oh. No. Good night, ladies. Good discussion.
Posted by lharri12[/QUOTE]

I thought I was the only one that noticed that. That was pretty special.

shannonalise · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:fe604082-5b77-4276-a931-dbfe77d6ff7d">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Well Regis for one. And loads of colleges offer their online courses in spanish. It is not as uncommon as you would think.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I didn't know that! Interesting! <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />

shannonalise · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:3532bdec-107b-494d-9a1f-a93125b9bf55">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I read through all of this and was happy to see some real and thoughtful debate. But I was mostly saddened to see so much lack of understanding and sympathy toward the realities of immigrants' lives in the United States. It seems to me that most of the English-only argument is based on xenophobia and a lack of experience with learning a second language as an adult. Also, the United States does not have an official language. Not learning English is certainly detrimental to one's economic opportunities in this country, however. That reality alone is enough to push determined immigrants to strive for fluency. But we don't need language legislation that would create second-class citizens before they ever have the chance to succeed.
Posted by ExpatPumpkin[/QUOTE]

Very well said.

MattsPenguin · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:3532bdec-107b-494d-9a1f-a93125b9bf55">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I read through all of this and was happy to see some real and thoughtful debate. But I was mostly saddened to see so much lack of understanding and sympathy toward the realities of immigrants' lives in the United States. It seems to me that most of the English-only argument is based on xenophobia and a lack of experience with learning a second language as an adult. Also, the United States does not have an official language. Not learning English is certainly detrimental to one's economic opportunities in this country, however. That reality alone is enough to push determined immigrants to strive for fluency. But we don't need language legislation that would create second-class citizens before they ever have the chance to succeed.
Posted by ExpatPumpkin[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Expat. I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the fact that the US DOES NOT have an official language.

squirrly · April 2010

DISCLAIMER: I have not yet gotten to the end of the thread. I wanted to post before I forgot what I was thinking. I'll edit or post again if the conversation turns in the next couple of pages and my response is out of whack.

I would prefer that English be the national language. It is what our governing documents and the bulk of our literature is written in. I would hate for people to loose it because of a continued surge in non-English speaking immigrants.

I think basic English should be required to get a driver's liscense. If you're pulled over by a police officer, it's necessary for you to be able to communicate at least a little. I have a friend who is a cop, and he's had some horrifically bad traffic stops with folks who don't speak English. Not saying you require fluency, but at least a minimal vocabulary, and a phrasebook would be adviseable. So, requiring proficiency for a minimal set of words/phrases on the test is ok to me. The complicated parts should be available in whatever language, as what language you speak doesn't really dictate your ability to drive, but having a basic English test as part of that is ok too.

I think providing services, sinage, etc. in other languages is fine. But, doing so for the benefit of non citizens who are not paying taxes to support the cost of those additional services is a stretch to me.

And, I don't think "requiring" immigrants to learn some amount of English diminishes their culture or language in any way. I studied and learned Japanese in high school and college, and that's not exactly easy. I did it, though. And, I wouldn't expect people in other countries to cater to me by learning English in the hopes that an English speaking person might travel or immigrate there. I traveled to Brazilon short notice once, and didn't have the time to really "learn" Portuguese. But, I brought a good dictionary and phrasebook, and did the best I could. Many people there speak English, but certainly not all.

And, all of these very judgy repsonses to people's opinions are kind of irritating me. Sure, some of the opinions are a bit off the wall, but not all.

aboom44 · April 2010

I agree with the title of the post.....you live here....learn english. You dont have to get a Master's degree in the subject but enough to communicate over the phone would be great.

stephl3055 · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:4b3c00c5-2d3e-46a5-b664-b1bcab9c18f1">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I think basic English should be required to get a driver's liscense. If you're pulled over by a police officer, it's necessary for you to be able to communicate at least a little.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. How can you expect someone to be able to drive safely if they have no idea what the roads signs mean? I know that some of the sign symbols are probably universal (yield, no U-turn, etc.), but there are plenty of other signs that are written out in english (no right on red after 5:00 PM, for example).

In my previous job I encountered a few people who spoke no english at all, and it was frustrating for the both of us. Pointing and hand motions can only do some much. I've also had a few cases where a child has had to translate for the parent and I could tell they were embarassed and mad that they had to do this.

In the area I live in, no one should be able to use the excuse that the resources aren't available to them to learn english. I can name about 7 churches in my city alone that offer free ESL classes. All they require is that you show up and make an effort.

I don't think immigrants need to learn perfect english to live here. My inlaws immigrated to the US from Vietnam 35 years ago. They still speak Vietnamese at home and when they are visiting with relatives. I think that's great because it's something they are passing along to their children. However, they also learned english when they moved here and they don't expect anyone to cater to them.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:9fdd372f-0f50-4ef9-92f7-2610aa6e0c07">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : What college? You can't go to UCLA or Cal Poly or UC Irvine or UCSD and take all of your classes in Spanish. In fact, other than foreign language classes, what classes have you seen in Spanish? Business statistics? Consumer behavior? Physics? Biology? Perhaps there is a prviate school out there that only teaches students in a certain language (maybe Yiddish? but Spanish, I hadn't heard). Anyway, enlighten me. Also, Roxy, yes, you can work at McDonald's or clean houses or pick fruit and never speak English but I don't think that those people are saying, Down with English!!!
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]

CSUN graduates the most Latino students in the US in many programs (including graduate students) and you certainly can't take classes in Spanish, other than Spanish classes. The Chicano studies classes are all taught in English.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · April 2010

I do wonder how much of this English-only sentiment comes from the fact that the US is BIG and POWERFUL and not really exposed to other languages, and therefore other people have to bend to our will and not vice verse.

When I was in Prague, you damn well better believe almost everyone spoke English. Why? Because very few people outside of the Czech Republic or Slovakia speak Czech. They learn it for economic reasons because Prague is a huge tourist destination. Did I lern Czech when I was there? Not one word. Did I feel bad about it? Sorta. Yes, I was only a tourist, but I have a friend who lived there for a year and can still barely speak the language. The language expectations there are WAY different. Hell, I found a lot of people who could speak English in Germany.

I'm not using this as an excuse of, "Oh, I went to their country and couldn't speak their language, but they spoke English, so everyone should learn it because Americans are too dumb to know a foreign language." Just that they do what they have to do. And in Europe, where they are in close proximity to other countries... well, it's beneficial to learn more than one language. Which is why the US should NOT limit itself to one "official" language and only encourage one language.

FYI, the state of Iowa banned the speaking, writing and teaching of German during WWI. Think about that.

graysquirrel · April 2010

HIstory has shown many times over that people from different backgrounds need a common language when making transactions. This was present in ancient cultures and should be present today. I would never tell someone to stop using their first language, but it is for the benefit of ALL involved to have a common language so that people can communicate. In this country, that language has always been English. That is why some English is a requirement for citizenship.

vgmartinez · April 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:1a2ebaec-fd86-4f87-83cb-e9fb8b336dc6">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]If you were to live in France (not visit but live), I would expect you to learn French. If you were to live in Italy, I would expect you to learn Italian and so on. If you live here, learn English. You don't have to agree with me but - having my own opinion is one of the freedoms of our country.
Posted by skippylouwho[/QUOTE]

And so is speaking another language. Obviously...France=French, Italy=Italian...America= the freedom to speak your native language.

Enforcing English-only laws is only showing ignorance and lack of acceptance for differences.

rainedrop6 · April 2010

On the day my BIL came to the US from Italy (3 month job assignment) he met my sister. He was 25 and didn't know one word of English. He feel in love and decided he wanted to stay and he realized that not knowing English, in this country, put him at a huge disadvantage so he put in a lot of effort to learn English, which I know wasn't easy. Within 1 month you could piece together a conversation with him. In 6 months he was basically fluent. Now, six years later he knows English better then a lot of native speakers. You can tell English is not his first language because his sentence structure isn't always perfect and he has some trouble understanding words that don't have a concrete meaning (i.e. I jokingly called my sister a brat and he had a hard time grasping what it meant.) He is now a permanent resident working on getting his citizenship. He has completed all of his paperwork in English including everything from INS, DMV, IRS, and even bought a house (granted he has my sister there to explain in simpler terms but he typically doesn't need her help).

My point is that he didn't expect people to speak Italian for him in the United States because he wouldn't expect Italians to speak English to US Citizens who move to Italy. It's important to learn the language of the country you choose to live in.

I believe that all immigrants coming to this country should be required to learn English in order to acquire residency (I'm not talking fluency but a basic understanding) and all US Citizens should be required to learn a foreign language (the same foreign language) in school.

He took us to Italy a few years ago and even though it was only for a 10 day visit, my sister and I spent the 3 months prior to the trip taking an Italian class at our community college so we would be able to communicate on a basic level even though we knew he would be there to translate everything because it was about respecting someone else's culture and making an effort. Even with the classes it was hard. I was grateful to have him because I ended up needing an antibiotic while we were there and the pharmacist didn't speak English.

KimC2010 · April 2010

I hate to say it but a lot of the people who cannot speak basic English did not go through the immigration process. One of my friends from college immigrated with her family from Brazil, and it was a requirement for them to learn English. She actually gets upset about people who live here who cannot speak the language.

Like others have said, if I moved to another country, I would learn the language. I wouldn't just keep looking at them and speaking a language that I know they don't understand and then get upset when I don't get the help I need. Trust me I have had many people get mad at me because I cannot speak their language.

Also another thing that people don't think about is that a lot of medical professionals are not fluent in foreign languages especially in small practices. It is very difficult to get someone's important medical history, if they cannot understand what you are saying. Let alone trying to explain what is wrong and what needs to be done to treat the condition. They cannot get the medical assistance they need if they do not speak English.

raashton · May 2010

The United States has no "official" language. Many other countries have a nationally recognized language (ex. Brazil= Portuguese, Canada= French and English). The United States doesn't have a declared language so we can't expect people to follow a rule that doesn't exist.

By this, I think it is ignorant to get so riled up in people coming here not knowing English already. By not knowing English, they are the ones who have it more difficult, not me. I don't mind having to press "1" for English.