"Pick and Choose" Catholic (Potentially Hot Topic)

agapecarrie · September 2012

I eat meat, but no one can tell me I'm not a vegeterian.

It's by its very definition, what it means. Being catholic MEANS by definition, beliefs in the faith of the church. THere are precepts that say what we must believe in order to be Catholic.

Riss91 · September 2012

The thing we all need to remember is that none of this is "easy". The most important part of Church doctrine is going to be the hardest to understand and the hardest to follow. I honestly urge anyone who disagrees with a Catholic teaching to do as much research as you can. Even if you do it with the intent to disprove it, you will be stronger fr challenging yourself. The weak thing to do is to shut down because "there is no way anything will change my mind" . if that's true, there shouldn't be any harm in understanding the other point of view. Find someone knowledgable that you trust and respect and challenge the doctrine. It is definitely with it. I highly recommend Theology of the Body for Beginners. It uses everyday language and asks all those questions that come up here very often. It is a quick but thorough read.

bibliophile2010 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:29ce4157-5b7c-4113-980d-4a57ed2f096f">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) :There are some teachings of the Church that I, quite honestly, don't like. I had a REALLY hard time accepting them. But I always view it like this. God is our Father. We, as humans, are teenagers. Parents often have "rules" about how you, as a teenager, should live. Do you always do it? No. Do you always like it? Of course not. But to jump out of my metaphor and hop into real life, ALL of the things my parents "ruled" me with as a teenager and I hated, I now agree with. Parents just know more than you do as a teenager. And it's very hard for teenagers to blindly trust something like that. But a part of faith is having that blind trust because you know that God knows better.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

This. The Church gives us what we need and what is best for us, not what we want.

pretzelgrrl · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:14d2050d-fb5f-4277-9303-2813364594d8">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]And I feel I am opening my heart to all people who may feel differently than me, that I am acknowledging there are people from all walks of life, and that being respectful and accepting makes me a more open-minded person. That includes respecting the opinions of those here that are not open or receptive towards certain choices. I don't think I'm the stubborn one because I refuse to take a step backwards in believing people shouldn't be allowed to choose who they love or marry or what they want to do with their bodies. And of course, I'm talking about legal things, not talking about doing drugs or committing adultrey or what not. I truly believe I feel the way I do because of my faith. The Church may tell us one thing, but I believe God wants me to be open-minded and accepting of all people. And in my own way, I have reached this point through prayer as well.
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with this! When you look at church teachings there are a lot of things we don't do anymore...eating no meat on Fridays and other things. Also, church teachings are based on interpretations of the bible. Many feel that there is no where that the bible condemns homosexuality and passages that are quoted to condemn it have been read wrong. I believe this is true because I believe the homosexuality is not a sin because I just don't belive God feels this way. I agree with those that say we should not talk bad about your religion...but I often feel when I disagree with the Churchs stance on some of these hot-button issues I am not speaking against the church or God I am speaking against beliefs of people who have misinterepreted the bible. And I believe that there may come a day when the church changes its views on homosexuality like it has changed its stance on other topics.

Eliz77 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:29ce4157-5b7c-4113-980d-4a57ed2f096f">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : So you're pro choice then. Which really illustrates what the original post was talking about: if you don't believe what the Church teaches, then why are you a part of it?
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
For real? because I question if what is right for me should be automatically rght for others and because I struggle with what I feel about something I should leave the Church. Wow. Thanks.<div>
</div><div>This is a forum. A poster should be able to discuss topics freely without being slammed. I prefaced my abortion opinions with I don't know what I feel is right or wrong. All I know is what is right for ME. Because I believe a woman should be able to say what happens with her own body does not mean I should leave the Church. </div><div>
</div><div>pretzzelgrl, nice to meet you! I do believe I feel as I do and have formed the opinions I have due to my faith in God. Other's may feel differently, and that is their right.</div>

chelseamb11 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:57cbf665-24a1-4d28-b483-0910726102a7">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : For real? because I question if what is right for me should be automatically rght for others and because I struggle with what I feel about something I should leave the Church. Wow. Thanks. This is a forum. A poster should be able to discuss topics freely without being slammed. I prefaced my abortion opinions with I don't know what I feel is right or wrong. All I know is what is right for ME. Because I believe a woman should be able to say what happens with her own body does not mean I should leave the Church. pretzzelgrl, nice to meet you! I do believe I feel as I do and have formed the opinions I have due to my faith in God. Other's may feel differently, and that is their right.
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

Sorry my question was a general "you", not you specifically. I wasn't clear.

The definition of pro-life means you believe it is a life and a woman doesn't have the right to choose to abort her child.
Pro-choice means you think a woman has the right to choose what's best for her. You can be pro-choice but still say you'd never do it yourself. If, in ANY way, you think it's a woman's choice, you're pro-chioce.

You can believe what you want, but you can't call yourself pro-life until you truly believe it is a life, therefore should not be the choice of the mother to terminate.

agapecarrie · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:75a3a698-aebf-4518-8d81-b6495a4dbb03">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : I totally agree with this! When you look at church teachings there are a lot of things we don't do anymore...eating no meat on Fridays and other things. Also, church teachings are based on interpretations of the bible. Many feel that there is no where that the bible condemns homosexuality and passages that are quoted to condemn it have been read wrong. I believe this is true because I believe the homosexuality is not a sin because I just don't belive God feels this way. I agree with those that say we should not talk bad about your religion...but I often feel when I disagree with the Churchs stance on some of these hot-button issues I am not speaking against the church or God I am speaking against beliefs of people who have misinterepreted the bible. And I believe that there may come a day when the church changes its views on homosexuality like it has changed its stance on other topics.
Posted by pretzelgrrl[/QUOTE]

<div>no eating meat on Fridays is a discipline. Disciplines change, teachings in faith and morals DO NOT change. Otherwise, they cannot be true. It is impossible for the church to "change" teachings on homosexual acts becasue that means it wasn't a moral truth, which cannot happen. 2+2=4, always has, always will. The same with moral truths. </div><div>
</div><div>Please back up what you are saying about scriptures being "read wrong"? Where are you getting this information?</div><div>
</div><div>In Matthew 16, Christ promised Peter (The first pope) the Holy Spirit would prevent the church from teaching error. Do you not believe that He can do this? Do you really think he would leave the church to merely men who, left to their own devices, will create 30,000+ denominations (note: protestants). The church has never ever changed her teachings on faith and morals, and she never will. </div><div>
</div><div>As been suggested before, Please read Theology of the Body for Beginners. </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Eliz77 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:68f4cc74-4922-40b3-8332-2f76d42c4421">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : Sorry my question was a general "you", not you specifically. I wasn't clear. The definition of pro-life means you believe it is a life and a woman doesn't have the right to choose to abort her child. Pro-choice means you think a woman has the right to choose what's best for her. You can be pro-choice but still say you'd never do it yourself. If, in ANY way, you think it's a woman's choice, you're pro-chioce. You can believe what you want, but you can't call yourself pro-life until you truly believe it is a life, therefore should not be the choice of the mother to terminate.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
OK. I understand all this. That is why I struggle with this topic. I think in a perfect world, no babies would be aborted, no pregnancies would be unwanted, no women would be wrongly impregnanted and everyone would see pregnancy as a blessing. That's why I have a tough time with this subject and I do see the link between BC and abortion. It's just a very difficult topic all around.

caitriona87 · September 2012

I find it quite interesting the notion that morality can or should somehow be based on how we "feel" or how we "feel" God might "feel." Do we mean emotion or sensory experience? Neither of those is an appropriate basis for moral thinking. Even less appropriate is taking it upon ourselves to determine how God "feels" since a) that would be setting ourselves up as judges over and above God b) morality is based upon His essential Nature, not His "feelings" and c) Divine Revelation has shown us His law in no uncertain terms already. Points a) and b) are attainable by human reason only, unaided by any faith or revelation. A basic foundation in Natural Law is totally absent in our culture.

lalaith50 · September 2012

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : I totally agree with this! When you look at church teachings there are a lot of things we don't do anymore...eating no meat on Fridays and other things. Also, church teachings are based on interpretations of the bible. Many feel that there is no where that the bible condemns homosexuality and passages that are quoted to condemn it have been read wrong. <strong>I believe this is true because I believe the homosexuality is not a sin because I just don't belive God feels this way.</strong> I agree with those that say we should not talk bad about your religion...but I often feel when I disagree with the Churchs stance on some of these hot-button issues I am not speaking against the church or God I am speaking against beliefs of people who have misinterepreted the bible. And I believe that there may come a day when the church changes its views on homosexuality like it has changed its stance on other topics.
Posted by pretzelgrrl[/QUOTE]<div>So YOU "feel" that God doesn't believe something, so therefore you don't have to believe it, so THEN you decide that places like Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-10 just MUST have been misinterpreted?</div><div>Fascinating train of "logic" there...</div><div>
</div><div>And actually, Catholics are still required to abstain from <em>something</em> on Fridays, be it meat or something else. You do that, right? (Or do you just not "feel" like that applies to you...?)</div><div>Can. 1250, 1251 </div><div><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM">http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM</a> </div><div>
</div><div>(ETA: cross-posting with caitriona. What she said!)

</div>

Riss91 · September 2012

Well... let's walk it through:

Why would God have created two separate types of humans: man and women? Why not have just one? Well, you need BOTH in order to perpetuate life. If he created two women or two men, the history of mankind would be the life of two people. He didn't do that. He created a man, and he created a woman. They are incomplete without the other. Life itself ceases to exist without both. Wouldn't God have simply created one type of human being that could regenerate/reproduce itself? He didn't do that. He created two separate types - they are created for each other, to complete each other, to share in His love and give themselves to each other, like Christ did for the Church.

Therein lies the rationale for why God likely doesn't "feel" homosexual relations are okay. If He did, why create two separate types of human? Why require them both to perpetuate life?

ootmother2 · September 2012

I think that some people are born straight and some are born gay. The "sin" comes with what you do about it.

I don't think that there's any difference in the sin of sexual activity outside of marriage

professorscience · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:4fe233ce-fd33-4b1b-a585-2ab918fb982d">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]I think that some people are born straight and some are born gay. The "sin" comes with what you do about it. I don't think that there's any difference in the sin of sexual activity outside of marriage
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree with you -- there shouldn't be any distinction, and I don't think anyone here made one.</div>

Eliz77 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:4fe233ce-fd33-4b1b-a585-2ab918fb982d">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]I think that some people are born straight and some are born gay. The "sin" comes with what you do about it. I don't think that there's any difference in the sin of sexual activity outside of marriage
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]
My feeling too. If God creates us, then he has created those who are attracted towards members if the same sex. It has been proven being gay in an innate trait, not one someone learns along the way due to outside influences.

agapecarrie · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:ba3620d2-0e02-4c2d-956a-0a2245dbbfca">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : My feeling too. If God creates us, then he has created those who are attracted towards members if the same sex. It has been proven being gay in an innate trait, not one someone learns along the way due to outside influences.
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

<div>Actually, it hasn't been proven.</div><div>
</div><div>But even if it has, God doesn't create the disordered attraction. Just like he doesn't create the propensity for alcoholism, or any other addictive behavior. That's part of the fallen nature of humanity. </div>

Riss91 · September 2012

We are born with sin. This is why we need to be baptized. Adam and Eve were born without sin. They were free from sin until they chose to disobey God. Everything that we do that is sinful, is a result of all of our collective sins.

afrenchprincess · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:55bee544-3a28-4891-a5fc-66dfc7472041">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]I eat meat, but no one can tell me I'm not a vegeterian. It's by its very definition, what it means. Being catholic MEANS by definition, beliefs in the faith of the church. THere are precepts that say what we must believe in order to be Catholic.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
You can be whatever you want to be! Some are strict vegetarians, some are vegans, some eat just fish and seafood. I have never been told that I MUST accept all of the church's beliefs or I am NOT Catholic!

afrenchprincess · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:57cbf665-24a1-4d28-b483-0910726102a7">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : For real? because I question if what is right for me should be automatically rght for others and because I struggle with what I feel about something I should leave the Church. Wow. Thanks. This is a forum. A poster should be able to discuss topics freely without being slammed. I prefaced my abortion opinions with I don't know what I feel is right or wrong. All I know is what is right for ME. Because I believe a woman should be able to say what happens with her own body does not mean I should leave the Church. pretzzelgrl, nice to meet you! I do believe I feel as I do and have formed the opinions I have due to my faith in God. Other's may feel differently, and that is their right.
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]
I agree Eliz77 It's almost as if some in the Catholic Church seem as if this is a gang or clique Believe all or nothing! Leave! You're not really one of us! Pssh! And to me IMHO this is borderline cultish behavior! And I'm NOT down with that!

agapecarrie · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:e1262d1d-457e-405f-a83e-1526dbc3c8a2">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : You can be whatever you want to be! Some are strict vegetarians, some are vegans, some eat just fish and seafood. I have never been told that I MUST accept all of the church's beliefs or I am NOT Catholic!
Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]

<div>you are missing the point of the analogy. </div><div>
</div><div>A vegetarian, <strong style="font-style:italic;">by definiion </strong>is someone who doesn't eat any meat at all. By its very own definition of the word. </div><div>
</div><div>As has been said before, all of the teachings are related to each other. By rejecting one you are rejecting the rest of them. They are all related--- Eucharist, to birth control, to pro-life, to marriage, to confession, to Assumption of Mary. All of them. By rejecting the church's teaching on marriage, one then rejects the teaching on Eucharist.</div><div>
</div><div>By accepting the Eucharist on Sundays, you are assenting a belief to all of the teachings. It is a lie if you don't. This is one of the things meant by "ONE BODY" ... we are one. </div><div>
</div><div>If you can throw out one or 2 teachings, why do YOU get to decide which those are? Why not other ones? That is what protestant means. Someone doesn't like a teaching, they've got a new religions.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Riss91 · September 2012

In Response to Re::[QUOTE]Well... let's walk it through:Why would God have created two separate types of humans: man and women? Why not have just one? Well, you need BOTH in order to perpetuate life. If he created two women or two men, the history of mankind would be the life of two people. He didn't do that. He created a man, and he created a woman. They are incomplete without the other. Life itself ceases to exist without both. Wouldn't God have simply created one type of human being that could regenerate/reproduce itself? He didn't do that. He created two separate types they are created for each other, to complete each other, to share in His love and give themselves to each other, like Christ did for the Church.Therein lies the rationale for why God likely doesn't "feel" homosexual relations are okay. If He did, why create two separate types of human? Why require them both to perpetuate life? Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Can anyone counter this argument to explain why God would be okay with homosexual acts?

pretzelgrrl · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:8c019ed1-3761-4337-a34e-c46241121830">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]So YOU "feel" that God doesn't believe something, so therefore you don't have to believe it, so THEN you decide that places like Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-10 just MUST have been misinterpreted? )
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

I read an interesting book by a priest and theologian called What the Bible -Really says about Homosexuality...here are some points from it

Compare the passage on male-male sex to Romans 11:24. There, Paul applies the term para physin to God. God grafted the Gentiles into the Jewish people, a wild branch into a cultivated vine. Not your standard practice! An unusual thing to do — atypical, nothing more. The anti-gay "unnatural" hullabaloo rests on a mistranslation.

Besides, Paul used two other words to describe male-male sex: dishonorable (1:24, 26) and unseemly (1:27). But for Paul, neither carried ethical weight. In 2 Corinthians 6:8 and 11:21, Paul says that even he was held in dishonor — for preaching Christ. Clearly, these words merely indicate social disrepute, not truly unethical behavior.

In this passage Paul is referring to the ancient Jewish Law: Leviticus 18:22, the “abomination” of a man’s lying with another man. Paul sees male-male sex as an impurity, a taboo, uncleanness — in other words, “abomination.” Introducing this discussion in 1:24, he says so outright: "God gave them up … to impurity."

But Jesus taught lucidly that Jewish requirements for purity — varied cultural traditions — do not matter before God. What matters is purity of heart.

“It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles,” reads Matthew 15. “What comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles. For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.”

pretzelgrrl · September 2012

Can anyone counter this argument to explain why God would be okay with homosexual acts?
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Not sure if you feel this counters your argument but I feel it addresses it...this is another quote from a theologian who believes many have misinterpreted the scriptures to say the bible condemns homosexuality.... "Let’s start “In the Beginning…” What does the creation story in Genesis 1-2 say about God? I’m so tired of reading signs carried by protesters that say: “It’s about Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.” In fact, the creation story is as important to Adam and Steve as it is Adam and Eve. Gays and non-gays alike need to know and celebrate the truth at the center of this story. This creation story is primarily about God, a story written to show the power of God who created the world and everything in it. It teaches us that ultimately God is our Creator, that God shaped us, and that God said, “It’s good.” Isn’t this the heart of the text? Now what does the creation story say about homosexuality? Because the text says it is “natural” that a man and a woman come together to create a new life, some people think this means gay or lesbian couples are “unnatural.” They read this interpretation into the text, even though the text is silent about all kinds of relationships that don’t lead to having children: couples who are unable to have children couples who are too old to have children couples who choose not to have children people who are single Are these relationships (or lack of relationships) “unnatural”? There’s nothing said here that condemns or approves the love that people of the same sex have for each other. So I believe the creation story says a lot about God’s power and presence in the universe — but nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today. Even when we believe the Scriptures are “infallible” or “without error,” it’s terribly dangerous to think that our understanding of every biblical text is also without error. We are human. We are fallible. And we can misunderstand and misinterpret these words. What if someone asked you, “Is there a chance you could be wrong about the way you’ve interpreted the biblical texts sometimes used to condemn homosexual orientation?” How would you respond? What does it say about you if you answer, “No, I could NOT be wrong”? I am asking you to re-examine these texts — carefully and prayerfully. Lives hang in the balance."

afrenchprincess · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:9045a3f7-c2e8-41f3-a1c4-a71d388be4dc">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : you are missing the point of the analogy. A vegetarian, by definiion is someone who doesn't eat any meat at all. By its very own definition of the word. As has been said before, all of the teachings are related to each other. By rejecting one you are rejecting the rest of them. They are all related--- Eucharist, to birth control, to pro-life, to marriage, to confession, to Assumption of Mary. All of them. By rejecting the church's teaching on marriage, one then rejects the teaching on Eucharist. By accepting the Eucharist on Sundays, you are assenting a belief to all of the teachings. It is a lie if you don't. This is one of the things meant by "ONE BODY" ... we are one. If you can throw out one or 2 teachings, why do YOU get to decide which those are? Why not other ones? That is what protestant means. Someone doesn't like a teaching, they've got a new religions.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]<div>Well give me by definition what is a Catholic? There is a difference between definitions and meanings. Catholicism in not a definition.

</div>

agapecarrie · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:9f9ccc18-1b80-490a-ad2d-89fa93ab6f77">Re:</a>:
[QUOTE]Can anyone counter this argument to explain why God would be okay with homosexual acts? Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE] . What if someone asked you, “Is there a chance you could be wrong about the way you’ve interpreted the biblical texts sometimes used to condemn homosexual orientation?” How would you respond? What does it say about you if you answer, “No, I could NOT be wrong”? I am asking you to re-examine these texts — carefully and prayerfully. Lives hang in the balance."
Posted by pretzelgrrl[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Actually, I know the church is correct, because Christ promised the Holy Spirit to the Church so that she won't teach error. It's that simple. </div><div>
</div><div>However, the biblical scriptures DO NOT condemn "sexual orientation". Nowhere. It labels sins sins. Actions. </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Eliz77 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:ded3cbee-2797-4ec3-8608-1502b5cd3a01">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : Actually, it hasn't been proven. But even if it has, God doesn't create the disordered attraction. Just like he doesn't create the propensity for alcoholism, or any other addictive behavior. That's part of the fallen nature of humanity.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
All I have left to say is this thread is...there have been research that shows genetic links to certain behaviors such as alcoholism or addiction traits or bi-polar and other mental disorders that are passed down between generations. To date, there has been nothing shown about being homosexual that is passed down and many believe it is something that exists at conception. So, in my opinion, that goes to show if God creates us all, he created us with a tendency to be attracted and love those that we do. When I look back at the guys I have interested in, there are similarities, amongst them, basically in build and type, and also in demeanor. Why am I attracted to men and not women? I believe it has to do with how I am created. <div>
</div><div>I think the whole issue centers more around sex and marriage more so than homosexuality itself since the Church teaches marriage and sex is for procreation. So, if same sex marriages are not allowed due to their inability to procreate, it must be wrong. Because I don't agree with either aspect and know opposite sex couples can adopt or use surrogant parents or use AI, I feel same sex partners should be allowed the same choice. </div><div>
</div><div>Like I've said before, this is all my opinion and just explaining why I feel as I do. </div>

Jasmine&Rajah · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:9b22b3ee-aa2a-48b2-ac9a-8dd359e5eb84">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE] Well give me by definition what is a Catholic?
Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]

That's one question with a very simple answer!

<a href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM</a>

(Just to clarify, I'm in no way trying to be snarky. I consider Christian Catholics deeply blessed to have, in no uncertain terms, a detailed explanation of what and who we are.)

On a related note . . . even though I accept and believe all the teachings of the Church, I still pray this verse almost every day, asking for grace, humility and sustenance, and I highly recommend it. ;-) From Mark 9 . . . <em>Lord, I believe - help my unbelief.</em>

Jasmine&Rajah · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:39859bc6-6ce0-4c4a-8a01-b2e242e74e34">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE] I think the whole issue centers more around sex and marriage more so than homosexuality itself since the Church teaches marriage and sex is for procreation.
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

Eliz, I think you most likely know this, but it's very important to point it out for anyone who doesn't . . . unions within the Church where the husband and wife cannot have children are certainly still considered valid and sacramental marriages (this is referenced in the Catechism, line 1654.)

Jasmine&Rajah · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:0a0224e7-b23b-4735-b347-bf51ec057554">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]You want me - an American with the freedom of speech guaranteed to me by the Constitution - to sacrifice my own will? What?! (That sums up the most stubborn of apprehensions to this - though I don't believe this I meant it for more of a comic overexaggeration :-) ).
Posted by caradi[/QUOTE]

caradi, this reminds me of a great post that I shared on this board before:

<a href="http://happycatholic.blogspot.com/2012/04/obedience-dirtiest-word-in-america.html" rel="nofollow">http://happycatholic.blogspot.com/2012/04/obedience-dirtiest-word-in-america.html</a>

It's really smart and thought-provoking - love The Happy Catholic! :-)

lalaith50 · September 2012

pretzelgrrl-

So, if I directed you to a book or scholarly article that laid out a completely logical argument using the Bible and our knowledge of the language and culture of the time, etc, that defended and explained the Church's teaching on homosexual relations, would that change your mind?

I highly doubt it, because as you've already said, you already decided that God can't teach that, because you don't "feel" like he would.

And therein lies the problem, which is exactly what this whole thread is about.

pretzelgrrl · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:ab49e2d5-0f76-446b-a6e6-db64d686c360">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]pretzelgrrl- So, if I directed you to a book or scholarly article that laid out a completely logical argument using the Bible and our knowledge of the language and culture of the time, etc, that defended and explained the Church's teaching on homosexual relations, would that change your mind? I highly doubt it, because as you've already said, you already decided that God can't teach that, because you don't " feel" like he would. And therein lies the problem, which is exactly what this whole thread is about.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

I have been directed to and read 1 book and I think 2 articles that I saw on these boards. I just also read ones like the ones I quoted. Why is it a problem that I can read books/articles and it does not change my mind but it's not a problem that you won't change your mind. I don't see it as a problem that you won't change your mind because that is your belief and you have every right to it but many catholics believe that Catholics you feel as I do should leave. And agape, I never said the church or bible was wrong...I said mans interpretation of it might be wrong. There is a big difference. Many people (not anyone on these boards) use the bible as an excuse to spread hate.

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