@LMc0322 -- Yes, FI's father means giving a speech at the RD. Which is traditional WHEN the groom's parents are paying, and they are the hosts, and the "toast" is really a "welcome and thank-you" speech. Since they're not hosting, they don't get to give a welcome. It's really that simple.
Currently, FFIL is threatening to boycott the RD if we don't let him give a speech. I'm hoping that also means he'll boycott the wedding.
I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
He also thinks it's still expected that the bride's family pay for the wedding and the groom's family pay for the rehearsal dinner and he said he hopes he doesn't have any daughters because of that.
In a time when women did not work at paid jobs outside the home, a young woman was supported by her father up until her wedding, then was "given away" to the husband who would support her from then on.
A new husband has his hands full figuring out how to support a new wife and possibly future children. Thus, the bride's father paid for the wedding. The groom's father was prepared to help support the new couple should the groom's own funds fall short.
Those were the Bad Old Pre-Feminist Days.
Today?
Wedding planning is complex, and it's no good to have too many planners. Two planners with one line of communication is best. (Bride and her mother. Bride and groom.) When you get too many planners, there are too many lines of communication and too many chances for foul-ups.
Thus, today, in my opinion, I think it best for the bride and her family (usually mom could be dad) to plan and pay for the wedding and the groom and his family (mom or dad) to plan and pay for the rehearsal dinner and honeymoon. The rehearsal dinner gives the groom's parents an opportunity to host their own event, inviting who they choose, etc.
That's ideal, and as we know little in life is ideal.
The co-workers in the story are naïve.
I completely disagree with the bold portion and I am a 3 time MOB who has paid for some weddings - they were gifts, it was not my responsibility to pay for them.
The tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding came from a generation when weddings were held at 2 pm at the bride's home church, followed by cake, punch, mints, and coffee in the church social hall. There were no dinners, no alcohol, no DJ's, no bands, and the weddings weren't a major chunk of Daddy's annual income. They were very simple, quick, and over. The industry has convinced us that all those things are necessary and some still think the bride's family should pay for this stuff.
In this day and age women don't leave their daddy's to go keep house for their husbands like my mom did. She was a WWII bride. Couples are responsible for the weddings they want. If the parents want to help, that is awesome, but in no way should it be their responsibility as your statement of, " I think it best for the bride and her family (usually mom could be dad) to plan and pay for the wedding" infers.
@BarbLovesDave - it sounds like your parents paid for 100% of your wedding and did most of the planning. It sounds like your husbands family paid for your HM. That's great and I'm glad it worked out for you. That doesn't mean it's "what's best" or "ideal" for anyone else or that it's some kind of standard that should be set.
What's "tradition" is not necessarily "good etiquette". Good etiquette is for the couple to properly host what they can afford and accept or decline others' offers to chip in. Period.
I don't really understand how the whole "cover your plate" thing works. It's definitely not what's expected around here (VT). How are you supposed to know how much your plate costs? Do you approach the couple and go "Hey, I'm trying to decide how much to give you, so I need to know how much you're dishing out per person". That's odd. And there's no way you can properly guess either, especially in advance. FI and I went to a wedding last summer that had AMAZING food. Best wedding food I've ever had. I was talking to the bride at some point after the wedding, when I was starting to plan mine, and she said that a family friend catered her reception, and it only cost her $5 a person. My jaw dropped when she said that. The food was so incredible, and I would have guessed they paid a lot more for it. So you never really know just how much the couple spends. And maybe the parents are paying for it, which makes the cover your plate rule totally irrelevant. There are so many factors, so I think it's a silly expectation.
SERIOUSLY. I don't know why people forget the point of the day. We went to a wedding last summer and one of FI's friends texted him to ask if we were going to "the church." You mean THE WEDDING? The day isn't about the reception!
Omg! You have no idea how many "fits" I had about this prior to our wedding. One friend had the nerve to say "I don't really care about the ceremony, I just want booze" to which I bluntly replied "if you can't appreciate the reason for the party, please don't bother at all." I'm sure he was offended, but seriously?
But back to the question: coming from Chicago I, too, was raised on the idea that you must "cover your plate" and then some. My now husband completely disagreed and I just couldn't believe he could be so rude! Then... I looked into it a little more (thanks, ladies!) and realized that etiquette does not actually require that we go into debt just to attend a close friends overly expensive and extravagant reception. I just wish I had known sooner! We have several weddings still to attend this year. While we would never show up empty handed, it is wonderful to know that we are not required to cover our plates!
Totally agree with the PP who mentioned that smart people aren't necessarily etiquette-conscious people. I think a lot of it has to do with experience as well. My FI has only been to one wedding, and at that wedding he was the ceremony/cocktail hour musician so he wasn't paying attention to the details - so he doesn't know anything about wedding etiquette. Neither did I really, until reading up here! People aren't just born knowing wedding etiquette - they have to learn it.
The tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding came from a generation when weddings were held at 2 pm at the bride's home church, followed by cake, punch, mints, and coffee in the church social hall. There were no dinners, no alcohol, no DJ's, no bands, and the weddings weren't a major chunk of Daddy's annual income. They were very simple, quick, and over. The industry has convinced us that all those things are necessary and some still think the bride's family should pay for this stuff.
A lot of truth there.
My grandmother was very opinionated and very proudly "Old Money". She was a famous snob and had no use for "New Money" pretentiousness. Grandmother was fine with people of modest or working class incomes, but she detested pretentious people, referred to with disdain as "New Money".
My parents were nowhere near as snobby as she was, in fact they were really nice. However, a distaste for pretentiousness runs through our family memes.
So: My wedding was much as you described, except held in the back yard of my parents' home overlooking the water. It was, in Grandmother's words, "Old Money" or as you said "came from a generation...". The officiant was a priest and we had the standard BCP liturgy. We served champagne, coffee, punch, wedding cake and light refreshments following the ceremony.
No DJ. No dancing. No limo. No STDs. No RSVP cards. No hair stylist. No cake-tasting. (Mom knew the baker.) No mani-pedi. No make up artist. No "venue", other than our own house and yard. No bachelorette party. No rented menswear. (Grandmother HATED rental menswear. "Wear what you own!") I didn't want all that what I called "pretentious crap", so I was fine with it. My mother pretty much knew what I wanted, so she planned accordingly. I was too busy in grad school to spend tons of time on wedding planning. Besides, how can you improve on the sun setting on the Pacific Ocean in terms of décor?
Dave's parents come from very modest means. They gave us $200 towards the honeymoon. We went camping on the beach and had a GREAT time.
I wouldn't change a thing.
I've attended lots of other weddings in lots of other styles and rejoice in diversity.
ETA: it's also an issue because it puts pressure on those who may not be able to AFFORD to "cover their plate". What does the guest do then? Risk looking bad by only giving a $100 gift when they should have given $500? Or decline the invitation and miss celebrating with family and friends?
This x 1000. We are inviting people to our wedding because we want them there, not so they can help pay for our party. I would be devastated if someone didn't attend because they couldn't afford their "ticket."
The expectation of any gift makes me angry. The expectation that guests will fund a wedding makes me want to bang my head against a wall.
Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
The tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding came from a generation when weddings were held at 2 pm at the bride's home church, followed by cake, punch, mints, and coffee in the church social hall. There were no dinners, no alcohol, no DJ's, no bands, and the weddings weren't a major chunk of Daddy's annual income. They were very simple, quick, and over. The industry has convinced us that all those things are necessary and some still think the bride's family should pay for this stuff.
A lot of truth there.
My grandmother was very opinionated and very proudly "Old Money". She was a famous snob and had no use for "New Money" pretentiousness. Grandmother was fine with people of modest or working class incomes, but she detested pretentious people, referred to with disdain as "New Money".
My parents were nowhere near as snobby as she was, in fact they were really nice. However, a distaste for pretentiousness runs through our family memes.
So: My wedding was much as you described, except held in the back yard of my parents' home overlooking the water. It was, in Grandmother's words, "Old Money" or as you said "came from a generation...". The officiant was a priest and we had the standard BCP liturgy. We served champagne, coffee, punch, wedding cake and light refreshments following the ceremony.
No DJ. No dancing. No limo. No STDs. No RSVP cards. No hair stylist. No cake-tasting. (Mom knew the baker.) No mani-pedi. No make up artist. No "venue", other than our own house and yard. No bachelorette party. No rented menswear. (Grandmother HATED rental menswear. "Wear what you own!") I didn't want all that what I called "pretentious crap", so I was fine with it. My mother pretty much knew what I wanted, so she planned accordingly. I was too busy in grad school to spend tons of time on wedding planning. Besides, how can you improve on the sun setting on the Pacific Ocean in terms of décor?
Dave's parents come from very modest means. They gave us $200 towards the honeymoon. We went camping on the beach and had a GREAT time.
I wouldn't change a thing.
I've attended lots of other weddings in lots of other styles and rejoice in diversity.
I do not understand the point of talking about how much money your grandmother has. She would probably look down on this post very much because old money needs to prove nothing.
In my experience, old money can be just as pretentious as new money, and oftentimes more so. Grandmother sounds like she may have forgotten her finishing school manners by the time ggranddaughter arrived.
I have always heard the cover your plate rule. I grew up in Bergen County, NJ (pretty close to NYC). I tried to adhere to it, but really thought it was ridiculous. Why should a couple get to choose how much their guests have to spend? Plus I didn't really ever know what people spent on the venue.
I just got married last week and I'm happy to finally know what people really do spend. Very, very few people "covered their plate" (only our immediate family, our financial planner (friends with FI), and my wealthy aunt and uncle). Covering your plate is the EXCEPTION not the NORM like people would want you to believe here. Most people gave $100 per person. I've always tried to get a straight answer on how much people spend and I finally have it. I was always worried that we were expected to cover the plate so I'm glad it's much more realistic even in such an expensive area.
I told my fiance very early that we should not go into this expecting any money from my family. Neither has much money and historically have not been able to contribute to things that parents "traditionally" do. We were pleasantly surprised when they did contribute.
I live in Chicago and the "cover your plate" theory is alive and well, and I daresay more with people from the south suburbs.
I don't adhere to it.
My wedding is also being covered four ways (my bank account, my parents', my groom's, and his parents'). Although my groom has told me to stop freaking out about budget because "remember, people will give us gifts", I cannot in good conscious plan a wedding outside my budget anticipating that I'll get money back.
The best line I ever heard?
"We MADE money on our wedding." (Uttered proudly by a 23 year old south-suburban bride, whose wedding was paid for by her parents, and who was divorced 3 years later.)
In my experience, old money can be just as pretentious as new money, and oftentimes more so. Grandmother sounds like she may have forgotten her finishing school manners by the time ggranddaughter arrived.
She was good at not practicing what she preached, that's for sure.
Re: Vent: random etiquette talk with coworkers
But back to the question: coming from Chicago I, too, was raised on the idea that you must "cover your plate" and then some. My now husband completely disagreed and I just couldn't believe he could be so rude! Then... I looked into it a little more (thanks, ladies!) and realized that etiquette does not actually require that we go into debt just to attend a close friends overly expensive and extravagant reception. I just wish I had known sooner! We have several weddings still to attend this year. While we would never show up empty handed, it is wonderful to know that we are not required to cover our plates!
My grandmother was very opinionated and very proudly "Old Money". She was a famous snob and had no use for "New Money" pretentiousness. Grandmother was fine with people of modest or working class incomes, but she detested pretentious people, referred to with disdain as "New Money".
My parents were nowhere near as snobby as she was, in fact they were really nice. However, a distaste for pretentiousness runs through our family memes.
So: My wedding was much as you described, except held in the back yard of my parents' home overlooking the water. It was, in Grandmother's words, "Old Money" or as you said "came from a generation...". The officiant was a priest and we had the standard BCP liturgy. We served champagne, coffee, punch, wedding cake and light refreshments following the ceremony.
No DJ. No dancing. No limo. No STDs. No RSVP cards. No hair stylist. No cake-tasting. (Mom knew the baker.) No mani-pedi. No make up artist. No "venue", other than our own house and yard. No bachelorette party. No rented menswear. (Grandmother HATED rental menswear. "Wear what you own!") I didn't want all that what I called "pretentious crap", so I was fine with it. My mother pretty much knew what I wanted, so she planned accordingly. I was too busy in grad school to spend tons of time on wedding planning. Besides, how can you improve on the sun setting on the Pacific Ocean in terms of décor?
Dave's parents come from very modest means. They gave us $200 towards the honeymoon. We went camping on the beach and had a GREAT time.
I wouldn't change a thing.
I've attended lots of other weddings in lots of other styles and rejoice in diversity.
Previously Alaynajuliana
She was good at not practicing what she preached, that's for sure.