As I asked early on, I'd like a link to unequivocal proof that there really is a breach of etiquette. By an actual expert on the subject, not general consensus on a message board. I'm not truly expecting this, it just shows I care about the difference between facts and opinions.
I've also already stated our guests are free to make their own decisions and plans. If they take issue with our plans and still participate, exercising their own free-will to travel pissed off, they're in the wrong, not us. As adults, my FH and I do not actively participate in things we do not agree with. If others do we won't be loosing sleep over it.
"State of slight confusion:My wife's best friend got married nearly a year ago. The bride wore beautiful white wedding dress and carried flowers. A small number of friends were in attendance and a meal followed. Pictures were taken and posted online. The problem? This ceremony took place at a courthouse (there were insurance issues that needed to be addressed ASAP). So, this spring, a bit over a year later, they are holding a "real wedding," complete with another ceremony (and large reception). My wife thinks this is perfectly normal, but it seems odd to me. Is this the new normal? Thanks for your reply.
Miss Manners: It's not a "real wedding," because these people are already married. But there are many who regard weddings as a chance to indulge in ego-fests and want as many as possible (without the trouble of divorce), so they stage re-enactments."
I'm not worried about being "raked over the coals" - I've already said I think this whole conversation is hysterically amusing!
I think an adult asking their loved ones to spend thousands of dollars to watch them stage a fake wedding is hysterical! I had no idea that PPDs were a thing until I came onto The Knot. It's so ridiculous it's funny. "Come watch me get dressed up and pretend to get married everyone! You aren't ACTUALLY invited to the wedding, you don't mind, right?"
I'm not worried about being "raked over the coals" - I've already said I think this whole conversation is hysterically amusing!
I think an adult asking their loved ones to spend thousands of dollars to watch them stage a fake wedding is hysterical! I had no idea that PPDs were a thing until I came onto The Knot. It's so ridiculous it's funny. "Come watch me get dressed up and pretend to get married everyone! You aren't ACTUALLY invited to the wedding, you don't mind, right?"
Me neither. I just don't get it. They seem so stupid and selfish to me.
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
I'm not worried about being "raked over the coals" - I've already said I think this whole conversation is hysterically amusing!
I think an adult asking their loved ones to spend thousands of dollars to watch them stage a fake wedding is hysterical! I had no idea that PPDs were a thing until I came onto The Knot. It's so ridiculous it's funny. "Come watch me get dressed up and pretend to get married everyone! You aren't ACTUALLY invited to the wedding, you don't mind, right?"
Me neither. I just don't get it. They seem so stupid and selfish to me.
I went to a wedding celebration 2 weeks after the private wedding ceremony and I HATED it!
If you don't want me to see you get married why should I come to a celebration?
There's no scam nor federal benefit to adding a spouse or other dependent to one's group insurance plan. Quite the contrary. It's a benefit one must pay for, unless their employer pays for it, which in our case is not the case at all.
I don't care if I sound sentimental. And god knows "cheap" just makes me laugh even more. I'm psyched you ladies were able to dig up so much legit etiquette. So much better than random opinions, really shows you're all trying. I hope you all can save a few people from the absolute horrors that you all describe. (Insert sarcasm here). I'm super bored with this topic though, having had to explain so much repeatedly for the few that don't seem to be able to follow along. I've got work to get back to and a wedding to plan. Toodles!!
There's no scam nor federal benefit to adding a spouse or other dependent to one's group insurance plan. Quite the contrary. It's a benefit one must pay for, unless their employer pays for it, which in our case is not the case at all.
I don't care if I sound sentimental. And god knows "cheap" just makes me laugh even more. I'm psyched you ladies were able to dig up so much legit etiquette. So much better than random opinions, really shows you're all trying. I hope you all can save a few people from the absolute horrors that you all describe. (Insert sarcasm here). I'm super bored with this topic though, having had to explain so much repeatedly for the few that don't seem to be able to follow along. I've got work to get back to and a wedding to plan. Toodles!!
The entire attitude of this makes you seem exactly like the egotistical person that wants to do a PPD. But good luck with that....
There's no scam nor federal benefit to adding a spouse or other dependent to one's group insurance plan. Quite the contrary. It's a benefit one must pay for, unless their employer pays for it, which in our case is not the case at all.
I don't care if I sound sentimental. And god knows "cheap" just makes me laugh even more. I'm psyched you ladies were able to dig up so much legit etiquette. So much better than random opinions, really shows you're all trying. I hope you all can save a few people from the absolute horrors that you all describe. (Insert sarcasm here). I'm super bored with this topic though, having had to explain so much repeatedly for the few that don't seem to be able to follow along. I've got work to get back to and a wedding to plan. Toodles!!
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the whole blood work thing. Why the hell would you need to have blood work done to get married in another country?
It use to be a requirement that in order to get married you needed to be tested to ensure you were clean against STD, (syphilis) HIV and to find out your blood type. My parents had to do it and it was very common until about 20 years ago.
Yep. That's actually how my dad proposed to my mom. They were near the county health department and he suggested they go get their blood tests done. They'd been living together for a few years and have now been married for 34 years.
There's no scam nor federal benefit to adding a spouse or other dependent to one's group insurance plan. Quite the contrary. It's a benefit one must pay for, unless their employer pays for it, which in our case is not the case at all.
I don't care if I sound sentimental. And god knows "cheap" just makes me laugh even more. I'm psyched you ladies were able to dig up so much legit etiquette. So much better than random opinions, really shows you're all trying. I hope you all can save a few people from the absolute horrors that you all describe. (Insert sarcasm here). I'm super bored with this topic though, having had to explain so much repeatedly for the few that don't seem to be able to follow along. I've got work to get back to and a wedding to plan. Toodles!!
Stuck in the box ..
Oh yeah. There's a problem with throwing a PPD for insurance. BF and I seriously discussed getting married in May since I was losing my health insurance coverage. We NEVER considered throwing a PPD because we couldn't stomach the thought of playing dress-up and lying to our families and friends. (Sidenote: We didn't end up marrying - my insurance sorted itself out. Point remains valid.)
"But, dear people, a wedding ceremony is a legal and/or religious ceremony. (Yes, a couple is allowed one of each, but in that case, the two quickly follow each other, and only one has a party attached".
I can't think. You get a legal ceremony with a reception, or you get a religious ceremony with a reception, or you get a legal and religious ceremony with a reception. Pick one.
The article does say that if you have both a legal and a religious ceremony they quickly follow each other. I don't see why having all of the wedding related ceremony, legal marriage and reception all on the same day is such a big issue as another thread brought up.
I don't think there are any US states that require blood tests anymore. Does anyone know of any? It's kind of stupid if you think about it, because people still have sex and children whether or not they are married, so it's kind of archaic in my opinion.
I don't think there are any US states that require blood tests anymore. Does anyone know of any? It's kind of stupid if you think about it, because people still have sex and children whether or not they are married, so it's kind of archaic in my opinion.
There are a few. The point isn't to keep ppl from having sex or having kids, the point is to determine if your SO has an STD that hasn't been disclosed yet and you might not know you have been exposed to, or to determine if either of you have genetic disorders that can be passed on to future kids, or to determine blood types if you don't already know yours.
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
I'm not going to argue my way out of anything. I'm going to thank you for taking the time to provide something other than conjecture and opinions.
Every and all other questions I have answered, some of which multiple times, above. I can't be any more clear on reasons, thoughts, plans and intent.
@STBMrsEverhart......there is one question yet to be answered.
Which process/symbolic/legal/demonstration/PPD do you intend to recognize as your anniversary?
I'm not going to argue my way out of anything. I'm going to thank you for taking the time to provide something other than conjecture and opinions.
Every and all other questions I have answered, some of which multiple times, above. I can't be any more clear on reasons, thoughts, plans and intent.
@STBMrsEverhart......there is one question yet to be answered.
Which process/symbolic/legal/demonstration/PPD do you intend to recognize as your anniversary?
And are JOP's not a valid wedding- in your opinion?
I don't think there are any US states that require blood tests anymore. Does anyone know of any? It's kind of stupid if you think about it, because people still have sex and children whether or not they are married, so it's kind of archaic in my opinion.
There are a few. The point isn't to keep ppl from having sex or having kids, the point is to determine if your SO has an STD that hasn't been disclosed yet and you might not know you have been exposed to, or to determine if either of you have genetic disorders that can be passed on to future kids, or to determine blood types if you don't already know yours
Stupid box!
Which states? I think the last state ended it in 2012. I'm curious if any engaged people have had to get blood tests this year. I would guess no.
The closest I was able to find was Montana, but you can fill out a waiver/informed consent. Just curious because I did a quick check and wasn't able to find anything other than the Montana one (only for the female).
To the second bolded: that's my point people have sex and have children out of wedlock, so waiting until they are ready to get married, is too late if that's what they are trying to accomplish.
But anyway, STBMrsEverhart's plan to have a wedding in Mexico after already getting married in Colorado to avoid blood tests, is just ridiculous. Why not just honeymoon in Mexico.
The OP's original plan is a little more reasonable and I don't think I would side eye it too much. But, I would suggest having your FFIL marry you in DC at a park or something so everyone can witness it, and then have your reception in VA. If you would do it for a religious ceremony in a church, than why not for a non-religious ceremony.
I don't think there are any US states that require blood tests anymore. Does anyone know of any? It's kind of stupid if you think about it, because people still have sex and children whether or not they are married, so it's kind of archaic in my opinion.
There are a few. The point isn't to keep ppl from having sex or having kids, the point is to determine if your SO has an STD that hasn't been disclosed yet and you might not know you have been exposed to, or to determine if either of you have genetic disorders that can be passed on to future kids, or to determine blood types if you don't already know yours
Stupid box!
Which states? I think the last state ended it in 2012. I'm curious if any engaged people have had to get blood tests this year. I would guess no.
The closest I was able to find was Montana, but you can fill out a waiver/informed consent. Just curious because I did a quick check and wasn't able to find anything other than the Montana one (only for the female).
To the second bolded: that's my point people have sex and have children out of wedlock, so waiting until they are ready to get married, is too late if that's what they are trying to accomplish.
But anyway, STBMrsEverhart's plan to have a wedding in Mexico after already getting married in Colorado to avoid blood tests, is just ridiculous. Why not just honeymoon in Mexico.
The OP's original plan is a little more reasonable and I don't think I would side eye it too much. But, I would suggest having your FFIL marry you in DC at a park or something so everyone can witness it, and then have your reception in VA. If you would do it for a religious ceremony in a church, than why not for a non-religious ceremony.
My apologies for the quoting above, didn't mean to hit quote. I did want to answer the question whether or not I believe JOP's are valid weddings in my humble opinion. I think the question was meant to be "are marriages/weddings performed by JOP's valid" (in my opinion) - because obviously JOP's are people not a specific type of ceremony or event. In any case, yes, of course, I think they are valid. JOP's perform secular ceremonies in addition to being (misguidedly) synonymous with court clerks who file marriage licenses. Clearly a couple does not need to have any type of ceremony at all to become legally married in some states. I cannot attest to what is the protocol in other states, but using our example in CO, there is no JOP involved (unless the couple hires one to perform a ceremony of whatever customs they're involved with, meaning a non-religious, or secular ceremony). A couple can legally marry themselves in CO. No JOP required. No witnesses required. All the state requires is some basic contact/personal info, divorce or death certificates (if applicable), the couple's signatures and $30. The couple is then legally married once the state gets their money and the certificate is filed. I never said they weren't (otherwise this whole giant mess of a board would be for naught). For some couples, this is as much or as far as they're interested in going. For others, a JOP will then be hired for a ceremony, or they may have a service in their house of worship. I've never stated that once the marriage license is filed a couple isn't legally married. I've argued whether I believe filing a marriage license is the same thing as a wedding, and no, I do not. I am not emotionally invested in how or why other couples see fit to marry in whatever way they choose. My very first comment on this thread I stated I think the concept of marriage is a very relative one. By the time we have our symbolic ceremony (I'm calling it that because it will be secular in nature) next year my FI and I will be together 9 years, 8 of which living together. We have been each other's insurance beneficiaries, medical powers of attorney, etc. for so long now that the only reason we have finally gotten around to deciding to get married is because we want to make a public declaration of love involving friends and family (and each other, obviously). We truly do not care what the state or federal government considers our relationship or what neat little box they place us. The fact is, we decided in April of this year to get married in September of next year. We've always known we wanted to do it in Mexico if we're going to do it. When we found out the criteria to legally wed down there we knew immediately we would not jump through hoops (the $300+ in fees, asking 4 witnesses to be there 72 hours in advance, blood work, etc.) when we could do the paperwork for $30 and 20 minutes of our time here before we left instead. Then some medical issues arose and we knew that by year's end we would file the marriage license so he could be on my health insurance without dealing with pre-existing conditions being a huge issue in the future. Digging ourselves in a financial hole over pre-existing medical conditions to avoid offending wedding etiquette wasn't even a consideration for us! Insuring the health of the man I love and not spending senseless hundreds of dollars with the Mexican government, all made perfect sense to us, regardless of what wedding etiquette has to say on the subject. As I've said before, as far as we're concerned, we'll not be married until we say our I Do's. We will not be changing anything about our relationship to indicate a change to "married" other than his having health insurance - no referring to other as husband or wife, no name change, no wedding bands, hell, we'll still be filing our taxes separately!!! At this point I'll ask all of you to refrain from the litany of "but you're not really having a wedding, it's a PPD, so on and so forth" because it's only wasting your own time - our plans are made, and I'm pretty sure the poor OP whose thread we jacked a long time ago has probably figured out her logistics by now! I can't imagine there's any more legitimate questions that I can answer so I'm bidding you all a good night!
@STBMrsEverhart said, "obviously). We truly do not care what the state or federal government considers our relationship or what neat little box they place us. The fact is, we decided in April of this year to get married in September of next year. We've always known we wanted to do it in Mexico if we're going to do it. When we found out the criteria to legally wed down there we knew immediately we would not jump through hoops (the $300+ in fees, asking 4 witnesses to be there 72 hours in advance, blood work, etc.) when we could do the paperwork for $30 and 20 minutes of our time here before we left instead. Then some medical issues arose and we knew that by year's end we would filethe marriage license so he could be on my health insurance without dealing with pre-existing conditions being a huge issue in the future. Digging ourselves in a financial hole over pre-existing medical conditions to avoid offending wedding etiquette wasn't even a consideration for us! Insuring the health of the man I love and not spending senseless hundreds of dollars with the Mexican government, all made perfect sense to us, regardless of what wedding etiquette has to say on the subject. As I've said before, as far as we're concerned, we'll not be married until we say our I Do's. We will not be changing anything about our relationship to indicate a change to "married" other than hishaving health insurance - no referring to other as husband or wife, no name change, no wedding bands, hell, we'll still be filing our taxes separately!!! At this point I'll ask all of you to refrain from the litany of "but you're not really having a wedding, it's a PPD, so on and so forth" because it's only wasting your own time - our plans are made, and I'm pretty sure the poor OP whose thread we jacked a long time ago has probably figured out her logistics by now! I can't imagine there's any more legitimate questions that I can answer so I'm bidding you all a good night!
You say you will not be married until you say your "I Do's", and yet you intend to recognize/celebrate your September MARRIAGE as your wedding anniversary.
The fact of the matter is that you can only have a first marriage, (as in, "We will celebrate only one wedding anniversary, starting with our first on September 13, 2015.") if you divorce and follow that with a second marriage. Try as you might, your rhetoric fails to deny the obvious....you are choosing to have a PPD.
Also, the reasoning behind your wedding (you know the one you are having in CO), is not even applicable. Obamacare has eliminated pre-existing conditions from insurance policies period. End of story. So do you have any other reasons why you NEED to get married in CO and then have a fake wedding re-do (see, I didn't call it a PPD) in Mexico now?
It looks like a lot has been contributed since I read this last. My only thought is that maybe we could cut the OP a little slack. No matter what she chooses to do (and I think she's received some good advice), it will still be her wedding day. She will still be a young woman getting married, regardless of which town or state she says her vows in. To me, it seems that a PPD occurs when you are pretending to be a bride and looking for that kind of attention on a day that is *not your wedding day.* Just food for thought.
OP, I don't know if you're still around but I don't see why you wouldn't just have your ceremony in DC and then the reception across the river in VA. It's really not that far. A friend of mine did it and it was no biggie.
You're way overthinking this.
ETA: I live in the area so I speak from experience
I am the OP. I think that is what we are going to do. I thought it might be weird though since I have never been to a non-religious wedding where there was a site move.
Re: Legally Married but PPD Wedding Later Complication - They are the same day.
Miss Manners: It's not a "real wedding," because these people are already married. But there are many who regard weddings as a chance to indulge in ego-fests and want as many as possible (without the trouble of divorce), so they stage re-enactments."
Or maybe:
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/08/3998738/miss-manners-clinging-to-her-wedding.html
Of course, you could have found that by Googling it yourself, since it's a very common question that has been answered to death for eons.
I really want to see you try to argue your way out of this one, @stbmrseverhart
After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
I went to a wedding celebration 2 weeks after the private wedding ceremony and I HATED it!
If you don't want me to see you get married why should I come to a celebration?
Every and all other questions I have answered, some of which multiple times, above. I can't be any more clear on reasons, thoughts, plans and intent.
I don't care if I sound sentimental. And god knows "cheap" just makes me laugh even more. I'm psyched you ladies were able to dig up so much legit etiquette. So much better than random opinions, really shows you're all trying. I hope you all can save a few people from the absolute horrors that you all describe. (Insert sarcasm here). I'm super bored with this topic though, having had to explain so much repeatedly for the few that don't seem to be able to follow along. I've got work to get back to and a wedding to plan. Toodles!!
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
ETA: It's for rubella--they're worried about pregnancy complications. Only the bride has to be tested.
You're way overthinking this.
ETA: I live in the area so I speak from experience
@button6004
I am the OP. I think that is what we are going to do. I thought it might be weird though since I have never been to a non-religious wedding where there was a site move.