complicated etiquette situation

JaniV123 · January 2014

My parents are divorced. CUrrently my mother is in a relationship with a douche. He hates me, talks crap about me, doesnt even say hi to me if we bump into them going out or if he attends family activities. I know nothing about him because in the 1.5 yr time they have been dating he has made NO effort to get to know me. he is a gold digging parasite who is using my mother and taking her money, and she is an idiot who is too scared to be alone to see it. He has called me a bratty, snotty, conceited b*tch and says he wont come to my house if I am here because I am disrespectful to him (his opinion based on one time I came home after 14 hours at university and went up to my room/bath room before saying hi to him when I didnt even see him and he had never said hi to me when he was here)

FI and I want to be surrounded by the people we love and who love us and he CLEARLY isnt one of them, he is a hateful manipulating a-hole, and we do NOT want him at our wedding. I will be talking to my mother and telling her she can bring someone to dance andbe with but we will not behaving a hateful person at our special day. This is clearly a breach of etiquette but am I right in not wanting his bad vibes and wishes there?

Ven&Radio · January 2014

This situation isn't complicated or unusual. Your mother is in a relationship, and therefore she and her boyfriend are a social unit who must be invited together. If this person is abusive to you or your mother, then I think it would be acceptable not to invite him, but it doesn't sound like he's actually crossed this line.

cowgirl8238 · January 2014

Unfortunatly for you unless he has done something that threatens the safety of you and your guests you have to inite him. It sucks, but that is what you should do since he is dating your mom.

If you go forth with your plan I think you will completey devestate your mom and you will most certainly create tension. Don't be that person to start drama, just suck it up and accet the fact that he will be there. You don't have to spend your whole day with him anyway! So take the high road here, invite the social unit and just thank him for coming and walk away.

JaniV123 · January 2014

alisonmarie658 said:

express those concerns as a concerned daughter

I have done this before (five times in 8 months) and that did not end good for me.

Ven&Radio said:

If this person is abusive to you or your mother, then I think it would be acceptable not to invite him, but it doesn't sound like he's actually crossed this line.

He hasn't been abusive to me directly, but I have seen and heard him be abusive with my mother. If I invite him he will attend because my mother will beg him to go, and he will just be hateful and spiteful the whole time. He wont even come to dinner with us or come to my house because he cant stand to see his gf's disrespectful daughter.

ETA Granted psychological abuse is bein taken into consideration and my mother crying because of him, and him yelling to her over the phone because she hasnt cooked dinner yet to take over to him counts

ETA that sounded a bit bitchy and it was not meant i that manner

AddieCake · January 2014

This is your mother's SO. If you don't invite him, you will do damage to your relationship with your mother. Your dislike of him is not relevant to the etiquette of this situation.

OliveOilsMom · January 2014

JaniV123 said:

My parents are divorced. CUrrently my mother is in a relationship with a douche. He hates me, talks crap about me, doesnt even say hi to me if we bump into them going out or if he attends family activities. I know nothing about him because in the 1.5 yr time they have been dating he has made NO effort to get to know me. he is a gold digging parasite who is using my mother and taking her money, and she is an idiot who is too scared to be alone to see it. He has called me a bratty, snotty, conceited b*tch and says he wont come to my house if I am here because I am disrespectful to him (his opinion based on one time I came home after 14 hours at university and went up to my room/bath room before saying hi to him when I didnt even see him and he had never said hi to me when he was here)

FI and I want to be surrounded by the people we love and who love us and he CLEARLY isnt one of them, he is a hateful manipulating a-hole, and we do NOT want him at our wedding. I will be talking to my mother and telling her she can bring someone to dance andbe with but we will not behaving a hateful person at our special day. This is clearly a breach of etiquette but am I right in not wanting his bad vibes and wishes there?

Him being a douche doesn't let you not invite him. If he was a drug dealing pedophile, this would be a different story. You will only need to interact with him a short time and if you kill him with kindness, he will look like the jackass by his behavior.

If you are truly concerned about the relationship, you should speak with your mother privately about your concerns, but leave the wedding 100% out of it.

AddieCake · January 2014

scribe95 said:

Interesting that you didn't include abuse in your first post, which was pretty detailed on all his faults. For me abusive would be at the top of the list. . But when people mentioned abuse as being an out you jumped on that. It makes me doubt the veracity of that claim. To me you must invite him whether you like him or not. You could always ask your mother not to bring him privately but sounds like she won't listen.

This made my Spidey senses tingle as well.

JaniV123 · January 2014

@alisonmarie That is sort of how I had planned the conversation to go along, explain to her the reason why (for the nth time) and that it is not because I dont want her to be with someone and be happy.

@OliveOilsMom

He isnt a drug dealing pedophile but he has a domestic violence claim in the system and is an AA attending "cured" alcoholic who I have witnessed drink wine, whiskey, and vodka cocktails.

JaniV123 · January 2014

scribe95 said:

Interesting that you didn't include abuse in your first post, which was pretty detailed on all his faults. For me abusive would be at the top of the list. . But when people mentioned abuse as being an out you jumped on that. It makes me doubt the veracity of that claim. To me you must invite him whether you like him or not. You could always ask your mother not to bring him privately but sounds like she won't listen.

thank you for your observation, in my original post I mentioned how he using and manipulating her, how he has insulted me constantly for a year. I thought going further into more specific and intimate details abut my mother's relationship was unnecessary. I spoke primarily abut how he has treated me and my FI who are the people getting married for that reason. Sorry if it came off that way.

abbyj700 · January 2014

If you're mother is truly being abused - you need to get her help. It's not about a wedding with this. It's about physical abuse by a partner to someone you love.

JaniV123 · January 2014

Overall thank you ladies for your comments and advise, I will sit down with my FI and talk it over as well as with my shrink and see what it comes to. The wedding is in June 2015 so invites are a long way from here.

As I see it I have three options: hope and pray that they break up, Sit down to talk with my mom and explain the situation, invite him and suck it up.

I understand the etiquette breaching here and I can only see those alternatives.

Inkdancer · January 2014

JaniV123 said:

Overall thank you ladies for your comments and advise, I will sit down with my FI and talk it over as well as with my shrink and see what it comes to. The wedding is in June 2015 so invites are a long way from here.

As I see it I have three options: hope and pray that they break up, Sit down to talk with my mom and explain the situation, invite him and suck it up.

I understand the etiquette breaching here and I can only see those alternatives.

Take a deep breath. You have over a year before your wedding. In that time, try to talk to your mother about her relationship with this person, and be there for her. A lot can change in a year... by the time you need to send out invites, the problem may have solved itself.

OliveOilsMom · January 2014

Is there anyone else who can speak with your mom about her boyfriend? If more than one person can express their feelings to your mom about why her boyfriend is bad, perhaps she will begin to question the relationship herself.

JaniV123 · January 2014

@Inkdancer

I really hope so because I tried to help her and advise her in the beginning and she started to say I didnt want her to be happy. I had to start therapy again when this started. I had numerous conversations with her about my concerns and the red flags I could see and had been made aware of, she shrugged them off and continued with him. I can only hope she sees the light or god forbid he actually hits her so she can see him for what he is.

JaniV123 · January 2014

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there anyone else who can speak with your mom about her boyfriend? If more than one person can express their feelings to your mom about why her boyfriend is bad, perhaps she will begin to question the relationship herself.

her two best friends tried as well, the both called me several times to ask me to be aware of the situation and to try and talk her and nothing. My uncle also talked to her about it and she shrugged him off. These holidays most of the family got to meet him and so far a lot of people are concerned and worried but she doesn't want to listen.

cowgirl8238 · January 2014

JaniV123 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there anyone else who can speak with your mom about her boyfriend? If more than one person can express their feelings to your mom about why her boyfriend is bad, perhaps she will begin to question the relationship herself.

her two best friends tried as well, the both called me several times to ask me to be aware of the situation and to try and talk her and nothing. My uncle also talked to her about it and she shrugged him off. These holidays most of the family got to meet him and so far a lot of people are concerned and worried but she doesn't want to listen.

That is sad and unfortunate that she will not "see the light". I would just be there for as much as you can and hope that eventually she wakes up and smells the coffee. When multiple people point out the same flaws to someone and they refuse to listen what more can you do? I am not the best person for giving more advice on how to stop a bad relationship...maybe some of the other knotties here can help more with that.

Lily9911 · January 2014

JaniV123 said:

My parents are divorced. CUrrently my mother is in a relationship with a douche. He hates me, talks crap about me, doesnt even say hi to me if we bump into them going out or if he attends family activities. I know nothing about him because in the 1.5 yr time they have been dating he has made NO effort to get to know me. he is a gold digging parasite who is using my mother and taking her money, and she is an idiot who is too scared to be alone to see it. He has called me a bratty, snotty, conceited b*tch and says he wont come to my house if I am here because I am disrespectful to him (his opinion based on one time I came home after 14 hours at university and went up to my room/bath room before saying hi to him when I didnt even see him and he had never said hi to me when he was here)

FI and I want to be surrounded by the people we love and who love us and he CLEARLY isnt one of them, he is a hateful manipulating a-hole, and we do NOT want him at our wedding. I will be talking to my mother and telling her she can bring someone to dance andbe with but we will not behaving a hateful person at our special day. This is clearly a breach of etiquette but am I right in not wanting his bad vibes and wishes there?

There are exceptions to this rule, like PP's have stated. If he was abusive in any way I can see why you wouldn't want him there. He just sounds like he's been a douche to you.

I purposely didn't invite 2 known alcoholic cousins and an uncle who is a pedophile.

Did we get shit for this decision? Yes we did. But there is a certain type of person you can't have come to a wedding. I think if someone is known to be harmful then it's a no brainer- no invite.

ETA: I didn't realize the OP has now brought up that the mothers BF has done things to the mother? Not sure how true that all is.

Jen4948 · January 2014

Based on what you wrote in your OP, you would have to invite him simply because your mother is in a relationship with him, even though he's hateful, manipulative, and the rest of what you wrote.

If he's abusive to your mother, then I think that's an exception to the SOs must be invited together rule.

bunni727 · January 2014

Another thing to consider: if he is abusive, not inviting him could upset him and cause trouble for your mother. Be there for her, and try to get her help.

kgd7357 · January 2014

This stinks. I would just try to convince her to dump him.

Blue_Bird · January 2014

JaniV123 said:
My parents are divorced. CUrrently my mother is in a relationship with a douche. He hates me, talks crap about me, doesnt even say hi to me if we bump into them going out or if he attends family activities. I know nothing about him because in the 1.5 yr time they have been dating he has made NO effort to get to know me. he is a gold digging parasite who is using my mother and taking her money, and she is an idiot who is too scared to be alone to see it. He has called me a bratty, snotty, conceited b*tch and says he wont come to my house if I am here because I am disrespectful to him (his opinion based on one time I came home after 14 hours at university and went up to my room/bath room before saying hi to him when I didnt even see him and he had never said hi to me when he was here)

FI and I want to be surrounded by the people we love and who love us and he CLEARLY isnt one of them, he is a hateful manipulating a-hole, and we do NOT want him at our wedding. I will be talking to my mother and telling her she can bring someone to dance andbe with but we will not behaving a hateful person at our special day. This is clearly a breach of etiquette but am I right in not wanting his bad vibes and wishes there?

Etiquette says, "Yes, invite him", but anyone who called me a "bratty, snotty, conceited b*tch" would not be present at my wedding.

PolarBearFitz · January 2014

Verbal abuse counts. I would not invite this person if he is verbally abusive as it seems he is towards you.

They are a social unit and should be invited together but verbal abuse is also abuse....

phira · January 2014

Eh, from the first post, I figured he was probably abusive. I don't think that emotional abuse isn't as "valid" as physical abuse (in terms of the point where you don't invite someone), nor do I think that the OP is obligated to invite the guy just because a lack of invitation would escalate the abuse.

I think this is a weirdly gray area. I think that the OP needs to talk to her mother closer to the wedding (e.g. 2-3 weeks before invitations need to be sent) and say, "The way your boyfriend treats me is really unacceptable. Here are the things he says and does that are not okay. Because of this behavior, [fiance] and I are not okay inviting him to the wedding. However, we know that not inviting him isn't very fair to you. Is there anything you think we can do to make the situation easier?" And then brainstorm solutions. Maybe he'll be invited to the wedding, but if he can't behave, he'll be asked to leave. Maybe he'll stay home and your mom can bring a friend. Or maybe he agrees to stay quiet all night.

I think one MAJOR thing to focus on is his BEHAVIOR towards you. Do not go on about how he's a parasite, or how he's a terrible person. Focus on specific things he has said and done, and don't make any comments about him in general as a person, or make assumptions about his motivations. And, just as importantly, avoid commentary about his relationship with your mother. It's going to be hard enough to deal with criticism of her boyfriend's behavior; if you insinuate that she's an idiot for dating him, she's not going to listen to you.

Finally, I think you might need to accept that either your mom comes to your wedding with her boyfriend OR neither one of them attends and the boyfriend further isolates your mom. Your actions will not CAUSE the second thing to happen; you are not responsible for the abusive, manipulative behavior of the boyfriend. However, I think that you need to let go of the idea that you can have your mom happily attend your wedding without her boyfriend.

CMGragain · January 2014

Your wedding isn't until 2015. You do not invite anyone to your wedding until eight weeks before it takes place. That is a long time, and your problem may have been solved by that time.
You cannot control your mother. She is an adult. All you can do is to keep communication open with her. You can tell her if her boyfriend does something to you that is unacceptable. You can suggest that she gets counseling. That is all. If you continually criticize her boyfriend (even if it is deserved) this will drive the two of you apart, and will make her feel that she has to defend him. Wait it out, and be sure that you keep those communication lines open.

GrrArgh · January 2014

Speaking as someone who was in a physically abusive relationship, you are never ever going to make her see the light. You are never going to convince her the relationship is bad. So people telling you to convince her... it's a lovely idea but it wont happen. The abuse cycle is so ingrain that once it starts, any ill mention of the abuser puts the abused on the defense because in their mind they deserve it. Your mother sadly will have to figure this out on her own, the only thing I can stress to the utmost is in this situation, invite him. Do not estrange your mother by shunning him, it will only push her deeper into his grasp. I'm not saying to accept or condone his behavior, just don't let it drive a wedge between you and your mom.

rmueller89 · January 2014

I get so annoyed reading responses that say "he needs to come". Yes, "etiquette" says one thing, but in reality it's a huge day for you & you're allowed to chose who you invite. Are you paying for the wedding? Is your mom helping at all? Has she been supportive all along, planning shower, wanting to help make decisions & plan. If she hasn't been apart of the planning & supportive process, then don't feel bad about not inviting him. She'll be upset, she'll be ticked & not want to talk most likely to you- but that will pass.

MyNameIsNot · January 2014

Etiquette aside, what do you really think would happen if you invited her without him? Do you really think that an etiquette slight is going to get her to wake up and see what a douche he is when all these talks and interested family members have fallen on deaf ears?

Of course not. She is going to take his side, and he is going to point out just how "bratty, snobby, whatever" you are for making her chose between him and you. Then he'll actually have some evidence.

Excluding him may very well mean your mother won't come, and it may very well be a wedge between you and your mother. If you truly think she is in an abusive relationship, it's important to keep the line of communication between you as open as possible. There's still more than a year before you need to make this decision, but when the time comes, keep in mind that there is more involved than just the wedding day.

Jen4948 · January 2014

rmueller89 said:

I get so annoyed reading responses that say "he needs to come". Yes, "etiquette" says one thing, but in reality it's a huge day for you & you're allowed to chose who you invite. Are you paying for the wedding? Is your mom helping at all? Has she been supportive all along, planning shower, wanting to help make decisions & plan. If she hasn't been apart of the planning & supportive process, then don't feel bad about not inviting him. She'll be upset, she'll be ticked & not want to talk most likely to you- but that will pass.

Not necessarily. She may be so mad that it will never pass.

phira · January 2014

@rmueller89 Yeah, stuff like that doesn't usually pass.

erinbethp · January 2014

I personally think that if the guy is that horrible and has it out for you, then don't invite him. If he is most likely going to cause problems, be negative and hateful throughout the day, then you shouldn't have to deal with that. Just my opinion.

You have lots of time, so I would talk to your mom openly and honestly and just say look... please understand that there is a lot of tension there and give examples of some issues. Ask her honestly if she thinks he likes you and would even want to come. Bring up the fact that he won't come to your house and avoids you. Then maybe say to her... if you really want him there or really feel like he wants to be there to support us, then he would be welcome, but if you also feel that he wouldn't be supportive or you are ok with him not coming, then it might be best for him to stay home that day. Then leave it be for a while and have her think about it... I would suspect your mom knows there is tension there and, at some level, understands why you might not want him at your wedding.

At the end of the day, if your mom really wants him there and doesn't see an issue, it might be best to invite him and then just ignore him. If she can understand where you are at and accept that, then don't invite him and enjoy your day.

JaniV123 · January 2014

Thanks to all. I have been without internet for a while. I talked to my mother about my worries about her being with him a week ago.she disregarded everything i said and proceded to leave with him until yesterday. I didntmention anything wedding related and everyone in my family has seen them and are concerned for her. Nobody likes him. On jan 6 we had a family activity and she had to take my grandma and they fought because he was fighting my mother for having to drive my grandma. ETA:I will give it time and hope they break up soon althoughi feel like that wont happen

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