Update

Teddy917 · February 2014

FYI we still haven't gone to therapy yet. He wants to take everything one step at a time. And he wants to first figure out what's going on with Social Security.

Aside from that, I found out some new things. Today (it could've been just out of frustration) he said that he doesn't believe that I love him. Apparently, I do something that upsets him and I deny doing it. I'm not sure what it is and he won't tell me.

I'm chilling downstairs while he talks with his brother.

Thanks for allowing me to vent to you guys.

jenniferurs · February 2014

I'm relatively new here (or rather, not on the boards all that frequently). Would you mind terribly providing some background info?

pinkshorts27 · February 2014

@jenniferurs you could just look at her history, here is one discussion

http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1010979/vent#latest

bethsmiles · February 2014

I don't think therapy should wait, especially if he's not even willing to discuss things (like telling you why he thinks you don't love him).

I'm sorry you are going through this *hugs*

pumpkinsandturkeys · February 2014

I'm so sorry that things haven't been sorted out yet. I understand wanting to take things one step at a time, but counselling/therapy really needs to be one of the first steps.

I think it's important to not only respect his needs at this point, but also to make sure that your needs are being met. I know you said that you're fine with having a marriage based solely on friendship and not love/passion, but I do still wonder if you're still going to be okay with that 5, 10, 25+ years from now.

You deserve it all. You deserve someone who is kind, supportive, a good father and husband, and who loves you wholeheartedly as his wife -- not just his good friend. You've been very understanding throughout this whole process, and it crushes me to think that he may be blaming part of his issue on you and your supposed actions. And even if you were doing something detrimental to your relationship, he needs to tell you what it is if this marriage is going to survive.

Please speak to someone soon. I think that you realize that this is a bigger issue than you're willing to admit to yourself and that you're not satisfied with your marriage, otherwise, you wouldn't be here for support and encouragement.

We're all here for you, and hoping it works out for the best.

Edited: spelling

jdluvr06 · February 2014

I really think you guys need to go to the counselor as soon as possible.

jenniferurs · February 2014

blueeyes90 said:
@jenniferurs you could just look at her history, here is one discussion
http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1010979/vent#latest

Wow, that made me very sad to read.

Teddy, I understand that it can be scary to leave your comfort zone and start all over, but please think long and hard about the type of marriage you want. Companionship is great and all, but I don't think that alone is enough to sustain most marriages. I think you need that added level of passion. Marriage is hard enough to sustain with it; so I couldn't even imagine sustaining it without it. And I just think it'll lead to even more hurt down the road, when you're even more deeply invested.

I agree with the others in saying that therapy should be the first step. Him putting it off is slightly troubling to me.

monkeysip · February 2014

Passion can fade in an out of a marriage for various reasons. A lot of couples go through periods where it's more like friendship.

BUT, I think it's a problem when one spouse becomes complacent about it and doesn't want to try and improve the passion. If one spouse doesn't want to work on it at all, that's a problem.

I'm really sorry you're going through this

artbyallie · February 2014

What on earth does he think he's going to accomplish by refusing to communicate?

RebeccaB88 · February 2014

@Teddy918, is it possible that his disability is making him unable to understand how/what kind of communication is necessary to solve problems and understand feelings? Does it make him think on a very simple, linear level and make thinking in more complex, intertwined levels much more difficult? How well is he able to understand and verbalize feelings, both simple and complex? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable doing it, but if nothing else, it might be something to think about.

I am in no way, shape, or form a professional, but I was a psych major in college and grad school (didn't finish graduate degree) and I'm really starting to be concerned that his disability is contributing to him not understanding what marriage means, what is expected within it, and how it affects his life other than the legal label of 'married'. The fact that he isn't able to verbalize what he thinks the word 'love' means, not to mention it's different forms and how it differs from 'like', 'friendship', and 'care about' is what made me start thinking in this direction.

Teddy917 · February 2014

RebeccaB88 said:
@Teddy918, is it possible that his disability is making him unable to understand how/what kind of communication is necessary to solve problems and understand feelings? Does it make him think on a very simple, linear level and make thinking in more complex, intertwined levels much more difficult? How well is he able to understand and verbalize feelings, both simple and complex? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable doing it, but if nothing else, it might be something to think about.

I am in no way, shape, or form a professional, but I was a psych major in college and grad school (didn't finish graduate degree) and I'm really starting to be concerned that his disability is contributing to him not understanding what marriage means, what is expected within it, and how it affects his life other than the legal label of 'married'. The fact that he isn't able to verbalize what he thinks the word 'love' means, not to mention it's different forms and how it differs from 'like', 'friendship', and 'care about' is what made me start thinking in this direction.

Part of this is definitely his disability. He can't understand difficult concepts. Like he can figure out a budget but doesn't understand interest or taxes. It also frustrates him that he can't understand stuff. So if you try to explain it to him at the wrong time or in the wrong way, he gets frustrated. What I try to do is give him a job that is simple but point out how helpful it is to me that it get done. And I try to do hard jobs myself unless I absolutely require information from him. But when that happens, we take breaks.
Like he does the budget (but we agreed on it before I handed him the reins) and makes sure bills get paid (pretty simple: money goes from bank account to certain places. He's good at it.). I do our tax returns (that's hard for even me so I knew that wouldn't be a job for him). We worked on applying for state assistance together but took breaks so he didn't get overwhelmed.

So hopefully that gives you a good idea of how he handles different levels of things.

Teddy917 · February 2014

@blueeyes90 Thanks for posting that link. I would've but my phone doesn't like me.

RebeccaB88 · February 2014

Teddy917 said:

@Teddy918, is it possible that his disability is making him unable to understand how/what kind of communication is necessary to solve problems and understand feelings? Does it make him think on a very simple, linear level and make thinking in more complex, intertwined levels much more difficult? How well is he able to understand and verbalize feelings, both simple and complex? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable doing it, but if nothing else, it might be something to think about.

I am in no way, shape, or form a professional, but I was a psych major in college and grad school (didn't finish graduate degree) and I'm really starting to be concerned that his disability is contributing to him not understanding what marriage means, what is expected within it, and how it affects his life other than the legal label of 'married'. The fact that he isn't able to verbalize what he thinks the word 'love' means, not to mention it's different forms and how it differs from 'like', 'friendship', and 'care about' is what made me start thinking in this direction.
Part of this is definitely his disability. He can't understand difficult concepts. Like he can figure out a budget but doesn't understand interest or taxes. It also frustrates him that he can't understand stuff. So if you try to explain it to him at the wrong time or in the wrong way, he gets frustrated. What I try to do is give him a job that is simple but point out how helpful it is to me that it get done. And I try to do hard jobs myself unless I absolutely require information from him. But when that happens, we take breaks. Like he does the budget (but we agreed on it before I handed him the reins) and makes sure bills get paid (pretty simple: money goes from bank account to certain places. He's good at it.). I do our tax returns (that's hard for even me so I knew that wouldn't be a job for him). We worked on applying for state assistance together but took breaks so he didn't get overwhelmed. So hopefully that gives you a good idea of how he handles different levels of things.

Yes, it does, thank you. My concern is that his disability is going to affect his ability to be an equal partner to you in your marriage, and contribute to it in an equal or equivalent way, and that you'll end up (someday, maybe not now), feeling like you're more of his mother or caregiver than his wife and partner. Especially if you add children to the relationship. For example, will he be able to understand the complexities of discipline, or would his natural instinct be to respond to them on their level (as in, he hit me so I hit him back), requiring you to be the disciplinarian and he becomes the one they can get away with things with. Would he be able to take care of a very sick child while you work, or be able to go pick them up if you can't? It's seeming to me that he is able to operate well under a routine, but comes to a standstill when anything is different. Having children is never, ever routine. If you have to handle 90-95% of everything but the most simple tasks for the rest of your married life, it could put him in the position of feeling useless, and you in the position of feeling overwhelmed and overextended. I don't want that for either of you.

JCbride2015 · February 2014

Yes, counseling absolutely must be one of the first steps. It also sounds to me that his disability is affecting his ability to process and/or explain his feelings for you.

It breaks my heart that you are in a marriage without passion and your H just seems so okay with this. And it's very troubling that he won't even tell you what he thinks you're doing that bothers him. Please making counseling your next step and I wish both of you the best in working through this.

Teddy917 · February 2014

He can take care of someone whose ill (I'm also very demanding when ill, so it's no small feat). He can't drive (neither can I, we're not sure if either of us will be able to, I can explain on that further if you'd like) but he can take a taxi (or once at least he can once we move). He used to think in the terms of get hit, hit back when it came to discipline. But I've shown him some ways that would be better to handle it. Like I've explained to him that when a baby bites your finger, if you bite back they don't connect it as you showing them that it hurts so the shouldn't do it to others; they see it as he bit me so it's ok. We've agreed that we will try to not have a "punishment" exactly but more a "correction". Like we won't make them do something useless like sit in a corner for five minutes (not that there's anything wrong with that) but we will have them do something to "fix" the problem. They hit someone, they need to do something nice for that person. They break something, they replace it. Since we've determined it in advance, it should be easier once we actually have kids.

It will likely always be a lopsided relationship. We're trying to make it as balanced as possible. Although, even if he could do more "complex" things, he would still feel like I was doing everything. Since we live in Utah, the norm is that the husband works, wife stays home. Sometimes both work, but rarely does the wife work and husband stays home. So he sees all these "normal" families and feels guilty that I have to be the one working, even though I sort of like it this way. I was raised that this man-works-woman-stays-home was the "right" way, and that I should be a lady (lady being defined as quiet, reserved, stays home, pretty much your traditional woman's role) and I didn't like how my mother made it sound like a woman couldn't be independent and choose what SHE wanted. Not that there's anything wrong with those woman who choose to stay home and do the more "traditional" route, it just was explained to me in a negative context. So I enjoy how I feel independent and free.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

If you're still not having sex, which is something you need to work on in therapy, how you will raise children is far removed from being a current problem I can't even fathom why you're dealing with that worry when there are far, far bigger worries right in front of you.

Why can't you drive? I assume he can't because of his brain damage, but why can't you? And why might you never be able to?

Also, why won't he tell you what you do wrong that bugs him?

Every time you post, I see more and more red flags. I am worried for you.

Teddy917 · February 2014

The reason why I can't drive is a vision issue. Not too long ago (a few months I think, around October), we were sleeping and he rolled over in his sleep and accidentally punched me in the eye. I had blood all over my eye (inside AND outside) I wiped off the blood on the outside. The inside blood continued bleeding for a while. I went to see an optometrist and $50 bucks later I don't know any more than I could've told myself. A blood vessel broke and 50% chance it gets better, 50% chance I go blind in that eye. I am not completely blind in that eye (left eye btw) but I lost a lot of perfural (I probably spelled that wrong but my brain isn't working today) vision, the vision I have in that eye is blurry (that part would be fine if it were just that and I could afford new glasses), and it's very sensitive to light (like if you don't warn me and just turn on a light I'm temporarily blinded, direct light is awful, etc).

emmyg65 · February 2014

As an internet stranger, I obviously don't know you and your situation, but from where I sit, I'm struggling to see what you get out of this relationship. Yes, passion fades in a marriage, but if you're already starting out at a point of dissatisfaction, that doesn't bode well. Marriage doesn't fix things. Instead, it introduces a lot of new stresses (unemployment, children, aging parents, etc. etc.) that are tricky to navigate in the best situations.

Also, I agree that counseling should be your first step.

pumpkinsandturkeys · February 2014

I agree with HisGirl in that the more you post, the more concerned I get. And I don't want you to take that the wrong way and feel as though you can't post these things here, because we are all here to help. I just worry that this relationship may never be what you need.

It's obvious that you love him very much, even if he is unable to display that kind of love back to you. I also get the feeling that even if you knew that this wasn't the right relationship for you in the long run, you may feel guilty leaving him because you know it's not his fault that he can't express himself emotionally the way you can.

You've spent a lot of time and energy taking care of him, and I think you need to ensure that he reciprocates that in whatever way he can. Also, he has been able to distinguish between the love/feelings he has for family and how he feels towards friends and knows that they're different feelings -- that makes me think that he should also be able to distinguish between those feelings and the romantic love and devotion you have towards your partner/spouse, even if he doesn't know how to verbalise it the way you do. If he doesn't feel any differently towards you than he does towards a friend, I'm concerned that you will end up stuck in a loveless marriage in which you're essentially his caretaker.

Please keep us updated and let us know when you start speaking to a professional about this.

Teddy917 · February 2014

scribe95 said:
He accidentally punched you in the eye? Uh, I have to be honest. I would move out until some of these things can be dealt with.

I know that sounds like an abusee (is that even a word) making excuses for her abuser. Trust me, it was a complete accident. Amazingly, I didn't even wake up to it. He does a lot of things in his sleep. Sometimes even fights things in his sleep.

Teddy917 · February 2014

pumpkinsandturkeys said:
I agree with HisGirl in that the more you post, the more concerned I get. And I don't want you to take that the wrong way and feel as though you can't post these things here, because we are all here to help. I just worry that this relationship may never be what you need.

It's obvious that you love him very much, even if he is unable to display that kind of love back to you. I also get the feeling that even if you knew that this wasn't the right relationship for you in the long run, you may feel guilty leaving him because you know it's not his fault that he can't express himself emotionally the way you can.

You've spent a lot of time and energy taking care of him, and I think you need to ensure that he reciprocates that in whatever way he can. Also, he has been able to distinguish between the love/feelings he has for family and how he feels towards friends and knows that they're different feelings -- that makes me think that he should also be able to distinguish between those feelings and the romantic love and devotion you have towards your partner/spouse, even if he doesn't know how to verbalise it the way you do. If he doesn't feel any differently towards you than he does towards a friend, I'm concerned that you will end up stuck in a loveless marriage in which you're essentially his caretaker.

Please keep us updated and let us know when you start speaking to a professional about this.

I definitely can see how you would think I'd feel guilty leaving him. But I wouldn't. I've actually dated several mentally disabled men. From almost "normal" to whatever the opposite would be (pardon me if I offend anyone by using labels like normal and not normal, I can't think of a better way to explain it). I've left all of them, for various reasons. One was a sexist, trophy-wife-wanting, flirts-with-every-girl jerk. One broke up with me (I was trying to break up with him but he wasn't taking my hints, so it worked out) because his brother (both mentally disabled) wanted to go out with me. I then broke up with the brother because he was not respectful during our dates (not necessarily disrespectful, but not respectful, you know?) and didn't care about my well-being. So I can walk away when I want.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

Again...The more you post the more red flags I see.

Have you ever dated someone who wasn't mentally disabled or challenged or (insert word here)?

Also, IIRC, you got married quite young after dating for a long time. How much adult, real-world dating experience do you have?

You make a lot of excuses for your husband and you male a lot of statements that seem (to me) like you are defending his actions because you know they're not normal actions for a man who claims to love his wife.

Where are you on therapy?

pumpkinsandturkeys · February 2014

Teddy917 said:

I agree with HisGirl in that the more you post, the more concerned I get. And I don't want you to take that the wrong way and feel as though you can't post these things here, because we are all here to help. I just worry that this relationship may never be what you need.

It's obvious that you love him very much, even if he is unable to display that kind of love back to you. I also get the feeling that even if you knew that this wasn't the right relationship for you in the long run, you may feel guilty leaving him because you know it's not his fault that he can't express himself emotionally the way you can.

You've spent a lot of time and energy taking care of him, and I think you need to ensure that he reciprocates that in whatever way he can. Also, he has been able to distinguish between the love/feelings he has for family and how he feels towards friends and knows that they're different feelings -- that makes me think that he should also be able to distinguish between those feelings and the romantic love and devotion you have towards your partner/spouse, even if he doesn't know how to verbalise it the way you do. If he doesn't feel any differently towards you than he does towards a friend, I'm concerned that you will end up stuck in a loveless marriage in which you're essentially his caretaker.

Please keep us updated and let us know when you start speaking to a professional about this.
I definitely can see how you would think I'd feel guilty leaving him. But I wouldn't. I've actually dated several mentally disabled men. From almost "normal" to whatever the opposite would be (pardon me if I offend anyone by using labels like normal and not normal, I can't think of a better way to explain it). I've left all of them, for various reasons. One was a sexist, trophy-wife-wanting, flirts-with-every-girl jerk. One broke up with me (I was trying to break up with him but he wasn't taking my hints, so it worked out) because his brother (both mentally disabled) wanted to go out with me. I then broke up with the brother because he was not respectful during our dates (not necessarily disrespectful, but not respectful, you know?) and didn't care about my well-being. So I can walk away when I want.

I'm glad that you don't feel obligated to stay. I am surprised that you've had a significant number of relationships with men who have mental disabilities; it makes me wonder if part of you likes being in the caretaker role, or if you like the idea that being with a man who may have to forgo working is your way out of being forced into the 'traditional' lifestyle of a stay-at-home wife that you clearly don't want. It may not be something that you're consciously aware of, but it does seem to be a pattern (solely based on the information you've provided).

In any case, relationships can be challenging. I do still hope you both speak with someone and sort out what will be best for both of you.

Teddy917 · February 2014

UPDATE: Yesterday, we went to his aunt and uncle's house. He was having a rough day. I was sick so I was miserable too. But he talked to his aunt (not a certified therapist but for him it sometimes is even better) who I love and trust too. And she was able to give him advice (I'm not sure what exactly, I told him if he wanted I would listen and not judge but that I would respect it if he wanted to keep it to himself). He told me that he does love me, he thinks in a "wife" way. He is trying to express it but is having a hard time finding the words. I've been helping him by trying to tell him how/why I love him in a "husband" way and giving him examples of how I see him loving me in a "wife" way (rarely leaving my side while I've been sick, checking on any bump in the night or pain on my arm and taking it seriously even if both might occasionally be imagined more than real).

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

Teddy917 said:
UPDATE: Yesterday, we went to his aunt and uncle's house. He was having a rough day. I was sick so I was miserable too. But he talked to his aunt (not a certified therapist but for him it sometimes is even better) who I love and trust too. And she was able to give him advice (I'm not sure what exactly, I told him if he wanted I would listen and not judge but that I would respect it if he wanted to keep it to himself). He told me that he does love me, he thinks in a "wife" way. He is trying to express it but is having a hard time finding the words. I've been helping him by trying to tell him how/why I love him in a "husband" way and giving him examples of how I see him loving me in a "wife" way (rarely leaving my side while I've been sick, checking on any bump in the night or pain on my arm and taking it seriously even if both might occasionally be imagined more than real).

The examples you cited to him? Those aren't husbandly or wifely. They are normal caretaker things. They're what parents do for kids and friends do for each other.

The real husband/wife role would involve telling each other everything, not keeping anything back, being totally open. And frankly, it doesn't sound like that's what you have.

I agree with pumpkins; I wonder if you like the caretaker role.

Teddy917 · February 2014

I have dated "normal" people. It's been about a 50/50 split on guys I've dated that are "normal" and ones that aren't. To be perfectly honest (thank you for allowing me to be that here), I didn't have much "adult" (by that I'm referring not to age so much as a stage in life not necessarily determined by a number) dating experience (lived with my parents for a while, they treated me like a kid; my husband even points out occasionally that I act like a teenager sometimes because I missed that stage). So even as a legal adult I had no adult dating experience.

Teddy917 · February 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Teddy917 said:
UPDATE: Yesterday, we went to his aunt and uncle's house. He was having a rough day. I was sick so I was miserable too. But he talked to his aunt (not a certified therapist but for him it sometimes is even better) who I love and trust too. And she was able to give him advice (I'm not sure what exactly, I told him if he wanted I would listen and not judge but that I would respect it if he wanted to keep it to himself). He told me that he does love me, he thinks in a "wife" way. He is trying to express it but is having a hard time finding the words. I've been helping him by trying to tell him how/why I love him in a "husband" way and giving him examples of how I see him loving me in a "wife" way (rarely leaving my side while I've been sick, checking on any bump in the night or pain on my arm and taking it seriously even if both might occasionally be imagined more than real).
The examples you cited to him? Those aren't husbandly or wifely. They are normal caretaker things. They're what parents do for kids and friends do for each other.

The real husband/wife role would involve telling each other everything, not keeping anything back, being totally open. And frankly, it doesn't sound like that's what you have.

I agree with pumpkins; I wonder if you like the caretaker role.

I guess I have a different view of a husband/wife relationship (could be due to the fact that my parents set a different example of husband/wife roles) than you. We do have an open relationship. Some things we do keep private. Things he talks about in therapy, his choice to tell me or not. Secrets his family has told him, if it doesn't affect me, I don't need to know.
I tell him most everything but like he doesn't know about what I post here. Not like he doesn't know the information. He just doesn't know I post it. He knows I vent here and ask for advice. Nothing I say here is necessarily supposed to stay secret. It might not always be something we're telling everyone but it's not something random internet friends can't know. I've told him he can read these at anytime. I always stay logged in. So if he wanted to he could but I showed a post to him (not one of mine and more funny than anything) to show what I do here and why I stay even though I'm married. He thinks it's cool and compares it to his game time with his friends via Xbox live (he doesn't know them in real life either). And if I tell someone a secret or someone tells me a secret, strictly confidential.

pumpkinsandturkeys · February 2014

Teddy917 said:

I have dated "normal" people. It's been about a 50/50 split on guys I've dated that are "normal" and ones that aren't. To be perfectly honest (thank you for allowing me to be that here), I didn't have much "adult" (by that I'm referring not to age so much as a stage in life not necessarily determined by a number) dating experience (lived with my parents for a while, they treated me like a kid; my husband even points out occasionally that I act like a teenager sometimes because I missed that stage). So even as a legal adult I had no adult dating experience.

You're still very young, so I don't expect that you would have much adult dating experience.

Even a 50% occurrence in your dating history is a higher percentage than average (not that average is always best, but for comparison's sake). I think that taking on a caretaker role makes you feel in control and as though you're an adult in charge of her own life, rather than a child who still lives with her parents and needs to abide by their rules.

HisGirl is right, again -- those are not instances that would make me think of you as a devoted husband and wife. If I just heard of those occurrences out of context, I would assume a platonic relationship between the two individuals, and actions done out of fondness rather than romantic love.

He needs to see a real therapist and learn how to be open and honest in communicating with you. It still bothers me that you say he 'thinks' he loves you as a wife; regardless of his ability to communicate the difference and understand how you would love a wife, he theoretically should be able to recognise that it's different than the love he feels towards other relatives or close friends.

FiancB · February 2014

emmyg65 said:

As an internet stranger, I obviously don't know you and your situation, but from where I sit, I'm struggling to see what you get out of this relationship.

Also, I agree that counseling should be your first step.

This. I don't really know what to say because I don't even know how to grasp the situation. I can give hugs, though.

Teddy917 · February 2014

Just as a side note: Not all the disabled people I dated were of the sort that would need to be taken care of. One had ADD but a mild form and had that relationship turned into marriage would've needed nothing from me. The jerkface had a concussion a year or so prior to me meeting him and was relearning basic knowledge. Not skills, he still could take care of himself, but more math and spelling. Cat, 1+1, etc. The brothers were mentally capable of taking care of themselves but not mature enough to be willing (hence my desire to break up with Brother 1).

jenniferurs · February 2014

Teddy, if your husband is refusing to start couples therapy, please consider starting individual therapy by yourself.

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