Guest etiquette

Amyzen83 · March 2014

So a few immature dumbass frat boys wear kilts and flash their junk everywhere which is in my mind highly disrespectful to the cultures that do wear kilts and now all people who wear kilts are now going to be questioned about whether they are going to behave that way??? If I were scottish, id be pissed and offended by these assumptions! Sounds like bride may be one of those ignorant people that is only aware of those jamokes and not aware of the cultural historical significance of wearing a kilt. I suggest as a wedding gift you buy her a Scottish history book

photokitty · March 2014

I think you should compromise - tell her you'll wear a suit IF she will wear a kilt to your wedding! If she gets to tell you how dress you for her wedding, you should get to tell her how to dress for yours. Have fun with it, pick her out something heinous! ;-p

phira · March 2014

I think we need to extend the OP the same courtesy we extend to all guests: we will assume that they will dress appropriately and not flash any goods at anyone.

jerkyanne · March 2014

@alphabridemaid

Actually I think it's totally fair to jump down anyone's throat who's prejudicial, bigoted or is stereotyping.

In addition to the kilt comment, @laker2014 also asked the guy if he drank too much/ acted like a drunk idiot because of his irish/scottish traditions. Wildly Out of Line.

Jerks come from all shapes and sizes, it's not fair to pidgeonhole. It's unfair of you two to group a tradition of a heritage to a few jerks you have encountered, not unfair that I called bullshit on someone stereotyping.

Eta formatting

Amyzen83 · March 2014

jerkyanne said:
@alphabridemaid

Actually I think it's totally fair to jump down anyone's throat who's prejudicial, bigoted or is stereotyping.

In addition to the kilt comment, @laker2014 also asked the guy if he drank too much/ acted like a drunk idiot because of his irish/scottish traditions. Wildly Out of Line.

Jerks come from all shapes and sizes, it's not fair to pidgeonhole. It's unfair of you two to group a tradition of a heritage to a few jerks you have encountered, not unfair that I called bullshit on someone stereotyping.

Eta formatting

I'm with you on this! Funny this topic has come up because I was in a wedding with some Scottish elements such as some guests wearing kilts and family tartan worn in different ways and it was one of the most beautiful ceremonies I've ever witnessed!

Sars06 · March 2014

phira said:

I think we need to extend the OP the same courtesy we extend to all guests: we will assume that they will dress appropriately and not flash any goods at anyone.

Right. Also if we're going down that path...I've seen women get drunk and flash the goods. I suppose I should ask my female guests not to wear skirts or strapless tops?

phira · March 2014

@Sars06 Exactly!

RebeccaB88 · March 2014

I think I speak for all of Clan Carmichael when I say, wear the kilt. There is nothing at all wrong with it and it is perfectly acceptable formal wear. Bride is being a Bridezilla and hella rude to you. You and your fiancee need to get on the same page about this, and you need to stand together. In her position, I would tell Bridezilla that you and your fiancee will attend together, or not, but you will be wearing the kilt.

Not to mention, men in kilts are just SO hot. Wow. One of the sexiest things ever.

phira · March 2014

@wamboy You don't get to tell guests what to wear. You shouldn't be asking guests to wear "dress attire," and you shouldn't be asking your uncle not to wear a kilt. It doesn't matter if he doesn't dress it up enough, or if it makes him stand out in a crowd. Rude rude rude. Please apologize to him and let him know it's okay to wear a kilt.

jerkyanne · March 2014

phira said:
@wamboy You don't get to tell guests what to wear. You shouldn't be asking guests to wear "dress attire," and you shouldn't be asking your uncle not to wear a kilt. It doesn't matter if he doesn't dress it up enough, or if it makes him stand out in a crowd. Rude rude rude. Please apologize to him and let him know it's okay to wear a kilt.

This. Would you also tell someone that their dress isn't nice enough or that they need a better suit.

Just because a kilt is not something Americans think is normal and makes someone standout doesn't make it wrong. If your guests have a negative reaction to someone's formalwear then they are the rude ones. You should definitely appologize to your uncle.

HisGirlFriday13 · March 2014

wamboy said:
I have an uncle who likes to regularly wear a kilt. However, I did ask him not to wear it to the wedding because 1 it does not fit within the dress attire we asked for and 2 I know him well enough to know that he does not dress it up.

That said, perhaps if the bride was to understand what a dress kilt would look like it would be ok. Sometimes people just don't understand what something like that means.

On the other hand, if it is something that would really make you stand out in the crowd in a negative way ... perhaps you can think about how a negative reaction by others on her wedding day may dampen it.

Regardless, I would say try to educate and inform, then you can both put yourselves in the other persons shoes and perhaps reach an agreement.

Then you are rude. Plain and simple.

You say you would 'try to educate and inform'? This entire thread has told you why it's hella rude, tacky, declasse, and bridezilla-ish to tell guests what to wear.

Why is it SO FUCKING HARD for people to understand that, with the exception of black or white tie, YOU DON'T GET TO TELL YOUR GUESTS HOW TO DRESS?!?

So not hard here, people.

Amyzen83 · March 2014

wamboy This is terrible advice! That's like telling an Japanese woman not to wear a Kimono or Indian people not to wear Saris, or Sikhs not to have their head dresses on. You DON'T tell someone that formal attire from their culture is not good enough for your wedding! It's flat out insulting!

mbross3 · March 2014

mrshutzler said:

She's being an asshole, but also doesn't want her day being turned into "the day that one guy wore a kilt". As obnoxious as it is, I can see where she's coming from. Don't go if you can't handle not wearing the kilt. It's not as if you wear it every day as part of your religion (I was involved in a wedding where a guest was asked not to wear a hijab).

To the bolded: this is HORRIFYING and I cannot believe anyone would ever say that! However, I do have to object to the idea that somehow wearing something for a religious purpose trumps a cultural purpose. Many people are not religious at all and yet we wear certain articles or accessories for cultural reasons which are just as valid and important as religious ones.

OP- I am also Scottish and my dad and brother wear their formal kilts to all big events. Yes, sometimes Americans give them looks and make comments, etc, but for the most part the kilts are met with understanding and respect. It is incredibly hard to believe you FBIL and FSIL would be so rude as to tell you not to wear it. If you plan to go still, I would wear it anyway, it is clearly of importance to you and that should be respected. I have to agree with PP who expressed concern about your fiancee not supporting your decision. Can you talk to her about why this is important to you? She should support you and not be ashamed of your culture!

Cookie Pusher · March 2014

The piper at my wedding (who happens to be a dear friend of mine) will be proudly wearing his kilt. FI and his family are all Irish - I wish they'd come in kilts, but they're not quite that in-touch with their heritage. Your FSIL is totally out of line in telling you that you can't wear your kilt. Your fiancée should be supporting you.

abbyj700 · March 2014

Thanks to this thread - there is now a line added to our wedding website that says "We encourage and applaud the wearing of kilts."

PrettyGirlLost · March 2014

RebeccaB88 said:

I think I speak for all of Clan Carmichael when I say, wear the kilt. There is nothing at all wrong with it and it is perfectly acceptable formal wear. Bride is being a Bridezilla and hella rude to you. You and your fiancee need to get on the same page about this, and you need to stand together. In her position, I would tell Bridezilla that you and your fiancee will attend together, or not, but you will be wearing the kilt.

Not to mention, men in kilts are just SO hot. Wow. One of the sexiest things ever.

I'm sorry his FI isn't on board with him wearing his formal kilt attire

(

I have been to 2 weddings where the groom was Irish and one wedding where the groom was Scottish, and all of the groomsmen and many of the male guests at those weddings wore formal kilt attire and they all looked smashing! I was very, very jealous of some of the calves on these guys. And not a single gentleman flashed anyone during the course of the day.

I tried to talk FI into wearing a kilt for our wedding, but he declined, boo!

PrettyGirlLost · March 2014

Cookie Pusher said:

The piper at my wedding (who happens to be a dear friend of mine) will be proudly wearing his kilt. FI and his family are all Irish - I wish they'd come in kilts, but they're not quite that in-touch with their heritage. Your FSIL is totally out of line in telling you that you can't wear your kilt. Your fiancée should be supporting you.

My FI too! We need to have a talk with them and get them to wear kilts, Cookie! I'd love to wear FI's tartan as a sash during the reception. . .

Cookie Pusher · March 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

Cookie Pusher said:

The piper at my wedding (who happens to be a dear friend of mine) will be proudly wearing his kilt. FI and his family are all Irish - I wish they'd come in kilts, but they're not quite that in-touch with their heritage. Your FSIL is totally out of line in telling you that you can't wear your kilt. Your fiancée should be supporting you.

My FI too! We need to have a talk with them and get them to wear kilts, Cookie! I'd love to wear FI's tartan as a sash during the reception. . .

I love, love, love kilts! I was sort of surprised when FSIL got married (into another Irish family) that no one wore a kilt. It made me quite sad, really. I mean, everyone is so excited to see me in my qipao and celebrating my heritage - I wish they would do the same. Of course, they're so Americanized that they joke the only connection they have to Ireland is how much Guinness they drink (but by that standard, *I'd* be Irish too lol). FI has nice legs from being a soccer ref for the last 20 years, too. He'd look super hot in a kilt!

kitsunegari89 · March 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

mrshutzler said:

She's being an asshole, but also doesn't want her day being turned into "the day that one guy wore a kilt". As obnoxious as it is, I can see where she's coming from. Don't go if you can't handle not wearing the kilt. It's not as if you wear it every day as part of your religion (I was involved in a wedding where a guest was asked not to wear a hijab).

You're right on the first bold, wrong on the second.

She is being an asshole -- and a bridezilla.

She 'doesn't want her wedding day turned into 'the day that one guy wore a kilt'?' Are you fecking serious?? Brides don't get to dictate guests attire. Period. End of story.

Also, OP isn't a random guest -- he is almost family. He says it's his fiancee's (two e's for a woman) brother's wedding. That means the bride is his FSIL and the groom is his FBIL. I can hardly think of a more offensive thing to say to someone who is going to be in your family than, 'Your ethnicity and heritage offend me, so please don't display them at my wedding, because IT'S ALL ABOUT ME AND MY SPECIAL DAY.'

No. Absolutely not.

Also, your final bold shows that your friends are incredibly rude. You may NEVER tell someone what to wear or what not to wear ESPECIALLY NOT when it relates to their religion. Holy fuck.

Oh, the hijab fiasco was totally messed up. We put tons of pressure on the bride to let it go, but ultimately she excluded the woman in question from the bridal party, and she did not show up to the wedding either (not that I blame her). It was very upsetting for everyone involved. I'm not using it as an example of acceptable behavior; I'm just saying that kilts are not usually worn religiously. They do have a cultural and ethnic significance that should not be overlooked, but I'm all about choosing battles. If this guy usually wears pants to the office, maybe he could just wear pants that day too. Is it really the end of the world? We can all acknowledge that she sucks for caring that much about a stupid thing like a kilt. I mean, there are bigger fish to fry than that. He can take the high road and not attend, take the middle ground and attend in pants, or be passive-aggressive and wear the kilt anyway. I don't know what I would do.

Edit: on the flipside, I attended a wedding in which all the groomsmen wore formal kilts and they all looked very handsome.

sofakingmad · March 2014

wamboy said:

@phira I do get to tell people what to wear. I get to tell them if we are doing formal or not. I get to tell them if we have a theme or not (which we do). We have given people lots of leeway within that theme. However, there are always a few who seem to have a hard time reading what the website or invite says.
@jerkyanne Everyone is always so worried about being rude, but did you know it is rude to tell someone they are rude. We can run circles all day along about this or that rude. Bottom line is, if I have a theme for my wedding, I get to ask people to say within that theme. If they don't want to ... DON'T COME!
@HisGirlFriday13 For someone who is so worried about being rude, you sure have an awful mouth! Do you not think it is rude to swear? Read an etiquette book, it is. If I want to have a certain style to my wedding and tell people that we are asking them to stay casual but rustic, I can. If they don't want to fine, if they have an issue with it there is an out ... RVSP no to attending, problem solved.
@Amyzen83 It isn't bad advice to tell someone to try and educate. If this guy wants to wear a kilt because he's big into his culture, I suggested that he talk with the bride and tell her about it, perhaps she would think differently once she understood. If I don't have the right to push the fact that I am an AMERICAN having a traditional AMERICAN wedding down anyone's throat, you don't have the option to do it to me. A kilt is not religious and the only way that the bride will understand what it means is if someone tells her, there is nothing wrong with that. We all have a responsibility to educate and inform one another to help each other become less judgemental not more. No one persons right for or to something outweighs anothers.

So many things wrong with this.

No, you can't tell your guests how to dress. Well you can, but it's rude and they most likely will not listen.

I hope you are joking, because I'm dying laughing at everything you just wrote.

HisGirlFriday13 · March 2014

wamboy said:
@phira I do get to tell people what to wear. I get to tell them if we are doing formal or not. I get to tell them if we have a theme or not (which we do). We have given people lots of leeway within that theme. However, there are always a few who seem to have a hard time reading what the website or invite says.
@jerkyanne Everyone is always so worried about being rude, but did you know it is rude to tell someone they are rude. We can run circles all day along about this or that rude. Bottom line is, if I have a theme for my wedding, I get to ask people to say within that theme. If they don't want to ... DON'T COME!
@HisGirlFriday13 For someone who is so worried about being rude, you sure have an awful mouth! Do you not think it is rude to swear? Read an etiquette book, it is. If I want to have a certain style to my wedding and tell people that we are asking them to stay casual but rustic, I can. If they don't want to fine, if they have an issue with it there is an out ... RVSP no to attending, problem solved.
@Amyzen83 It isn't bad advice to tell someone to try and educate. If this guy wants to wear a kilt because he's big into his culture, I suggested that he talk with the bride and tell her about it, perhaps she would think differently once she understood. If I don't have the right to push the fact that I am an AMERICAN having a traditional AMERICAN wedding down anyone's throat, you don't have the option to do it to me. A kilt is not religious and the only way that the bride will understand what it means is if someone tells her, there is nothing wrong with that. We all have a responsibility to educate and inform one another to help each other become less judgemental not more. No one persons right for or to something outweighs anothers.

North American or South American or Central American or Latin Aemrican?

Or are you one of those people who forgets that 'America' doesn't just mean 'the United States'?

HisGirlFriday13 · March 2014

wamboy said:
As a side note, I love a kilt. However, time and place people! 1 WE AREN'T SCOTTISH, so it has nothing to do with heritage, he likes it because it draws attention 2 he doesn't do the dress kilt, he does a black kilt with motorcycle boots and a tee shirt and sometimes a Hawaiian shirt ... if we were Scottish or if he did a formal kilt, I'd say go for it!

YOUR ethnicity is irrelevant. That's what you seem to be unable to grasp. If HE wants to wear a kilt (even with motorcycle boots and a t-shirt), he will look slovenly and out of place. It will not reflect on you and your FI.

sofakingmad · March 2014

wamboy said:

@HisGirlFriday13 If the argument is that it is rude because of heritage, your argument is moot. If your argument is that he has a right to wear whatever he wants even if it is not within the dress code we asked for or the theme of the wedding, thats rude of him, and it would not make it more or less rude for me to say, that's inappropriate please leave.

You are seriously having a dress code/theme and telling people what is proper to wear?????????

SERIOUSLY?

HisGirlFriday13 · March 2014

wamboy said:
@HisGirlFriday13 If the argument is that it is rude because of heritage, your argument is moot. If your argument is that he has a right to wear whatever he wants even if it is not within the dress code we asked for or the theme of the wedding, thats rude of him, and it would not make it more or less rude for me to say, that's inappropriate please leave.

Oh FFS. I give up. You're either genuinely unable to grasp a seemingly simple concept or you are willfully ignorant and genuinely desirous of being a rude, condescending person.

Oh, sweetie, you don't need to explain DNA and genetics to me. Aside from my quite good grasp on the topic, I doubt you understand anything other than 'But it's MY DAY and I THE BRIDE and DO WHAT I WANT' well enough.

You can't (or won't) grasp why you're being rude, and that's fine. Sit there in your rudeness and be rude. But don't pretend you have an etiquette leg to stand on.

Amyzen83 · March 2014

wamboy said:

@phira I do get to tell people what to wear. I get to tell them if we are doing formal or not. I get to tell them if we have a theme or not (which we do). We have given people lots of leeway within that theme. However, there are always a few who seem to have a hard time reading what the website or invite says.
@jerkyanne Everyone is always so worried about being rude, but did you know it is rude to tell someone they are rude. We can run circles all day along about this or that rude. Bottom line is, if I have a theme for my wedding, I get to ask people to say within that theme. If they don't want to ... DON'T COME!
@HisGirlFriday13 For someone who is so worried about being rude, you sure have an awful mouth! Do you not think it is rude to swear? Read an etiquette book, it is. If I want to have a certain style to my wedding and tell people that we are asking them to stay casual but rustic, I can. If they don't want to fine, if they have an issue with it there is an out ... RVSP no to attending, problem solved.
@Amyzen83 It isn't bad advice to tell someone to try and educate. If this guy wants to wear a kilt because he's big into his culture, I suggested that he talk with the bride and tell her about it, perhaps she would think differently once she understood. If I don't have the right to push the fact that I am an AMERICAN having a traditional AMERICAN wedding down anyone's throat, you don't have the option to do it to me. A kilt is not religious and the only way that the bride will understand what it means is if someone tells her, there is nothing wrong with that. We all have a responsibility to educate and inform one another to help each other become less judgemental not more. No one persons right for or to something outweighs anothers.

No you don't get to dictate what your guests wear just because it's your speshal day! Ok, you technically can but that doesn't make it less rude. If people intentionally dress inappropriately your wedding will not be ruined, I promise! What's most important to you, having the people you care about show up and be there for you, or have them miss the moment because they won't dress up to your standards? As a side note, this being an etiquette board, people will point out when you mention something that goes against etiquette whether you choose to follow or not, other brides do care about how they treat their guests and go on these boards to learn what's right. Otherwise they can just ask their friends and family who may have horrible etiquette habits.

banana468 · March 2014

I can't help but wonder if @wamboy is only here to be a spoon.

lightningsnow · March 2014

OP, my godmother's husband wears a formal kilt to every formal event he attends. I know for a fact my wedding in the future will be one such event he will wear it to. I see no problem with it and I think you should discuss why it's important to you to wear it to your FI and tell her that you will wear it regardless.

banana468 · March 2014

It's fine to have a theme wedding and I'll even bite that it's OK to encourage certain attire.

However unless your wedding is black tie (really actually black tie) or in a location that actually requires a certain dress (think a country club where a jacket and tie is required by any man in the building), you don't get to have a dress code.

Etiquette is an established set of rules and you don't get to make your own just because you're getting married.

banana468 · March 2014

wamboy said:

@banana468 No I'm not here to stir up anything, you should read my original posts. However that said I have never seen such a bunch of uptight yuppy wanna-be right know nothing opinionated broads with nothing of a real basis to say except to want to participate in caddy high school mean girl behavior. Want to see a chicks real colors, put her on a wedding community board where she will think she rules the world and her opinion is the only one that matters.

1) Broads? BROADS?? I can't take any grown woman seriously who refers to adult women as broads and then chicks.

2) You're confusing opinions with established social rules. You can spout off what you want and what you like as much as possible but you don't get to make your own rules just because it's your wedding.

3) I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here.

banana468 · March 2014

wamboy said:

@banana468 Who sets the etiquette then? It is not established rules, from Websters: the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life. Based on what authority? Who sets that authority? Just because you think it is rude, doesn't mean it is, what is means is you have an opinion, but your opinion isn't gospel, it's just an opinion.

If your opinion differs from established etiquette then your opinion is that something rude is OK. There are plenty of places to search etiquette rules. Miss Manners is an excellent source. Crane's is an excellent source for invitation etiquette. Your brain and a made up idea is NOT a source.

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