Wedding Etiquette Forum

Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

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Re: Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

  • MobKazMobKaz member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2014
    MegEn1 said:
    So you aren't taking any visa, health insurance, tax, or other benefits as a married person? Why did you feel the need to get married on the DL at all, then? 

    As you can see, TheMrsSTB cares only about herself.  No one is forcing her to have a PPD.  She is making a conscious choice to do so.  No one is forcing her to lie to friends and family.  She is choosing to do so.  Waaaaay back when she first posted, it was "explained" that this was a cost saving move for them. It was done to allow Mr. E to obtain health insurance through her workplace.  Only later, (if I recall correctly) was it ironically discovered that marrying was unnecessary.   The lying is so guests will be in their moment. Unfortunately, they are not concerned at all about the costs guests will incur attending this road show, nor do they have any compunction about lying to their guests.
     

    All in all, it's a pretty sad statement and reflection.
  • MegEn1MegEn1 member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    MobKaz said:
    MegEn1 said:
    So you aren't taking any visa, health insurance, tax, or other benefits as a married person? Why did you feel the need to get married on the DL at all, then? 

    As you can see, TheMrsSTB cares only about herself.  No one is forcing her to have a PPD.  She is making a conscious choice to do so.  No one is forcing her to lie to friends and family.  She is choosing to do so.  Waaaaay back when she first posted, it was "explained" that this was a cost saving move for them. It was done to allow Mr. E to obtain health insurance through her workplace.  Only later, (if I recall correctly) was it ironically discovered that marrying was unnecessary.   The lying is so guests will be in their moment. Unfortunately, they are not concerned at all about the costs guests will incur attending this road show, nor do they have any compunction about lying to their guests.
     

    All in all, it's a pretty sad statement and reflection.
    OH. Okay, the way she was painting the picture seemed weird to me. I'd read this thread over a course of many days, didn't put her together with that person. 

    Thanks for clarifying. 

    Achievement Unlocked: Survived Your Wedding! 
  • MegEn1 said:


    MobKaz said:


    MegEn1 said:

    So you aren't taking any visa, health insurance, tax, or other benefits as a married person? Why did you feel the need to get married on the DL at all, then? 


    As you can see, TheMrsSTB cares only about herself.  No one is forcing her to have a PPD.  She is making a conscious choice to do so.  No one is forcing her to lie to friends and family.  She is choosing to do so.  Waaaaay back when she first posted, it was "explained" that this was a cost saving move for them. It was done to allow Mr. E to obtain health insurance through her workplace.  Only later, (if I recall correctly) was it ironically discovered that marrying was unnecessary.   The lying is so guests will be in their moment. Unfortunately, they are not concerned at all about the costs guests will incur attending this road show, nor do they have any compunction about lying to their guests.
     

    All in all, it's a pretty sad statement and reflection.

    OH. Okay, the way she was painting the picture seemed weird to me. I'd read this thread over a course of many days, didn't put her together with that person. 

    Thanks for clarifying. 




    HA! That doesn't begin to clarify A THING! But excited y'all are seeing eye to eye, that should be entertaining.
  • I get etiquette and all, but what blows my mind is that anyone has people they consider real friends or relatives who would care or be "outraged"  if you got legally married before the actual symbolic ceremony. I actually find that kind of sad. I would assume many people wouldnt consider themselves married until they did the symbolic ceremony since the other stuff is just paper and what is important to some couples is that all their loved ones are there to see it. For destination weddings many people don't want to be legally married in a different country so if they do the courthouse thing a few days before they head to wherever they are going then so be it. Wouldn't anyone you consider a loved one understand that? And if they don't you would just think they are petty? I don't go to weddings of people I love to see them legally tie the knot then and there lol. I go to weddings to be supportive of a couple and to celebrate their marriage regardless of when it happened. And frankly I find it an honor to even be a guest at a wedding because it means you are important to them. If I thought any wedding was someone being greedy I wouldn't go to it at all regardless of when they were "legally" married. To each their own though. I see both points of view, I just don't personally know anyone who would be pissed about such a thing, or even go as far to inquire if someone was "really" getting married at the ceremony or not. That strikes me as incredibly rude. I agree with not actively lying about it, but at the same time I wonder what kind of people would seek out such petty information to begin with? To each their own. This thread was enlightening though that is for sure-I had no idea!
  • Also apologies but because I can't read EVERY single post- what is the etiquette for letting guests know you are already legally married when you send out invites?
  • AddieCakeAddieCake member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    edited July 2014
    Also apologies but because I can't read EVERY single post- what is the etiquette for letting guests know you are already legally married when you send out invites?

    You send vow renewal invitations and don't word anything like "as they are united in marriage" or any other wording that sounds like it is a wedding and not a vow renewal.
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image

  • AddieCake said:
    Also apologies but because I can't read EVERY single post- what is the etiquette for letting guests know you are already legally married when you send out invites?

    You send vow renewal invitations and don't word anything like "as they are united in marriage" or any other wording that sounds like it is a wedding and not a vow renewal.
    http://www.idotaketwo.com/blog/home/ <--- Handy site 

    And people actually did ask my H (Army)and I if we were already married before our wedding because they had been to weddings (and showers and bachelor(ette) parties) of military couples who had a PPD and lied about it and were pissed when they found out that their friends couldn't be honest with them. 
    image
  • Thanks for the information ladies. I genuinely had never heard this before and I can't say I would care either way if I had that situation  occur in my life (It just strikes me as a none of your business type thing.-like would you change your mind and not attend the ceremony of someone you love if they got married ahead of time?) but everyone is entitled to their own opinions- although I must say some are pretty harsh here lol! Live and learn about these things but its very good to know!


  • As we keep saying, it is when people lie about it that makes it an issue. Some of us, myself included, don't even mind PPDs as long as the couple is up front about it.
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
  • We need an I-know-it's-against-etiquitte-but-I'm-doing-it-anyway board. We could call it "special snowflakes" for short.
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  • edited July 2014
    I totally get all that and agree honesty is the best policy. But I guess, my line of thinking is- whatever is a "wedding" day to them is what it is to me. I may have a different idea of what is a "wedding day" and can plan my own accordingly-Whether its legal or symbolic. Maybe part of this is because so many people (myself included) live together before they get married so for many nothing really changes whether they are legally married or not. Its not like it used to be where they move in together after the wedding and there is a clear delineation of "before marriage" and "after marriage".

    One questions though-and it's probably been addressed so my apologies ahead of time but again this thread is SO long. If people don't want to get married in their destination of choice and do it a few days before they leave (because yes-I can understand it wanting to be close to the time of the ceremony for all the reasons you guys state) how exactly would you convey that to guests on an invite that was already sent? sending a vow renewal invite in that case seems bizarre. I suppose you could do the legal paperwork after you get back to make it official or is that a faux pas too??

  • One questions though-and it's probably been addressed so my apologies ahead of time but again this thread is SO long. If people don't want to get married in their destination of choice and do it a few days before they leave (because yes-I can understand it wanting to be close to the time of the ceremony for all the reasons you guys state) how exactly would you convey that to guests on an invite that was already sent? sending a vow renewal invite in that case seems bizarre. I suppose you could do the legal paperwork after you get back to make it official or is that a faux pas too??

    Same as before.  "The couple invite you to join in a celebration of their recent marriage", perhaps add in "as they renew their vows".  

  • ok cool. thanks Winstonsgirl-sorry that should have been obvious to me!
  • PDKH said:
    When it comes to PPDs, there is no getting married the old fashioned way. There's getting married and then there's not getting married, but pretending like you are. Those are the only two ways. 

    Valuing the moment you wear a white dress over the moment you became someone's spouse is sad.

    SITB*******************************

    Those might be the only two ways in your world. And that's cool for you. 

    As far as anyone "valuing" a garment over any aspect of a wedding or their marriage, I would tend to agree with you. But if someone values signing a document changing how the government views their relationship over saying their vows, frankly, that kind of saddens me. I'm not sure what someone is wearing at either moment is all that relevant. 
    I can think of plenty of people who would give up the right to say vows to have the right to sign that document.  Obviously you care about how the government views your marital status otherwise you wouldn't have gotten married (and taken advantage of all the benefits that come along with it).
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • NYCBruin said:
    PDKH said:
    When it comes to PPDs, there is no getting married the old fashioned way. There's getting married and then there's not getting married, but pretending like you are. Those are the only two ways. 

    Valuing the moment you wear a white dress over the moment you became someone's spouse is sad.

    SITB*******************************

    Those might be the only two ways in your world. And that's cool for you. 

    As far as anyone "valuing" a garment over any aspect of a wedding or their marriage, I would tend to agree with you. But if someone values signing a document changing how the government views their relationship over saying their vows, frankly, that kind of saddens me. I'm not sure what someone is wearing at either moment is all that relevant. 
    I can think of plenty of people who would give up the right to say vows to have the right to sign that document.  Obviously you care about how the government views your marital status otherwise you wouldn't have gotten married (and taken advantage of all the benefits that come along with it).
    It wasn't the government we were trying to appease. It was a (private) company policy that turned out to be incorrect. So no, I'm still not concerned with the government's view of my relationship status. Perhaps we'll "take advantage" of all these benefits after our wedding, but for the time being we appeased my company's (nonexistent) policy and are quite thrilled to be able to take our vows next month. So much so, it's getting pretty difficult to contain our excitement. 
  • MegEn1 said:
    Oh so you're just using the married status to get healthcare for both of you. That is an advantage that you're taking. 

    That's just what I mean, though - you're using the institution of marriage because you think you're special and deserve to have access to a benefit without being married. It's not the Special Snowflake healthcare benefit, it's the marriage benefit. To me, to ignore the institution but to claim the benefits is disrespectful to marriage as a whole.

    Do your guests for your reception know that you're married and why?
    Well, then I guess I'm just going through life thinking I'm special and disrespecting the institution of marriage. So be it. I'm sure the institution will be just fine regardless of my obvious lack of concern for it. The good news is that this lack of respect will have ZERO effect on anyone else's marriage. 
  • MegEn1MegEn1 member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    edited August 2014
    NYCBruin said:
    PDKH said:
    When it comes to PPDs, there is no getting married the old fashioned way. There's getting married and then there's not getting married, but pretending like you are. Those are the only two ways. 

    Valuing the moment you wear a white dress over the moment you became someone's spouse is sad.

    SITB*******************************

    Those might be the only two ways in your world. And that's cool for you. 

    As far as anyone "valuing" a garment over any aspect of a wedding or their marriage, I would tend to agree with you. But if someone values signing a document changing how the government views their relationship over saying their vows, frankly, that kind of saddens me. I'm not sure what someone is wearing at either moment is all that relevant. 
    I can think of plenty of people who would give up the right to say vows to have the right to sign that document.  Obviously you care about how the government views your marital status otherwise you wouldn't have gotten married (and taken advantage of all the benefits that come along with it).
    It wasn't the government we were trying to appease. It was a (private) company policy that turned out to be incorrect. So no, I'm still not concerned with the government's view of my relationship status. Perhaps we'll "take advantage" of all these benefits after our wedding, but for the time being we appeased my company's (nonexistent) policy and are quite thrilled to be able to take our vows next month. So much so, it's getting pretty difficult to contain our excitement. 
    Except that the government has to recognize it for you to properly scam the insurance company. 

    Would you have signed the document if you didnt want the bennies? Since it is so meaningless to you.

    Achievement Unlocked: Survived Your Wedding! 
  • The more I am reading about this the more I am starting to think this may be fairly regional and that its a big deal in more conservative places. I live in NYC and have asked at least 15 people today (including my conservative mother) young and old if they have heard of people being offended that they aren't witnessing the moment a couple is legally bound and instead are seeing a symbolic ceremony and not a single person  has said they have heard that or would be themselves (whether the couple told them so or not-since its not about what you think is right, its about what they think is right since it's their wedding) Maybe in NY people go to weddings to party and don't really care wtf  or when the couple in question did to legally recognize it? The vow part is only really important to the couple and their parents I would think. If someone is the type of person who would do this as a "gift grab" (which esp is utter BS when it comes to destination weddings since most people don't give gifts at them) I am not going to be friends with them in the first place. I mean-if I am traveling to see a couple get married its not just to see them become legally bound. Its to have a good time with friends and family. The legal part is solely between them.
  • MegEn1 said:
    NYCBruin said:
    PDKH said:
    When it comes to PPDs, there is no getting married the old fashioned way. There's getting married and then there's not getting married, but pretending like you are. Those are the only two ways. 

    Valuing the moment you wear a white dress over the moment you became someone's spouse is sad.

    SITB*******************************

    Those might be the only two ways in your world. And that's cool for you. 

    As far as anyone "valuing" a garment over any aspect of a wedding or their marriage, I would tend to agree with you. But if someone values signing a document changing how the government views their relationship over saying their vows, frankly, that kind of saddens me. I'm not sure what someone is wearing at either moment is all that relevant. 
    I can think of plenty of people who would give up the right to say vows to have the right to sign that document.  Obviously you care about how the government views your marital status otherwise you wouldn't have gotten married (and taken advantage of all the benefits that come along with it).
    It wasn't the government we were trying to appease. It was a (private) company policy that turned out to be incorrect. So no, I'm still not concerned with the government's view of my relationship status. Perhaps we'll "take advantage" of all these benefits after our wedding, but for the time being we appeased my company's (nonexistent) policy and are quite thrilled to be able to take our vows next month. So much so, it's getting pretty difficult to contain our excitement. 
    Except that the government has to recognize it for you to properly scam the insurance company. 

    Would you have signed the document if you didnt want the bennies? Since it is so meaningless to you.
    Yes, about three months prior to Mr. E's health scare we set a wedding date. When we learned of the legal requirements in Mexico we completely understood why every other couple we know who were married down there did their licensing here first (one couple did it afterward but had intended to do it first but ran out of time before they left dealing with some larger issues). Knowing our wedding in Mexico wasn't going to be legally binding was fine with us, it made no difference really. When Mr. E's health issues came up we realized the amount of time in between signing the license and our planned wedding really made no difference to us either and so we went and filled out our paperwork so I could add him to my plan. Nothing else changed for us that day. After our wedding we will assume all the regular married stuff: referring to the other as a spouse, not fiancé(e), my changing my name because I want to, the usual. Until then, the government classification will not compel any changes for us.
  • The more I am reading about this the more I am starting to think this may be fairly regional and that its a big deal in more conservative places. I live in NYC and have asked at least 15 people today (including my conservative mother) young and old if they have heard of people being offended that they aren't witnessing the moment a couple is legally bound and instead are seeing a symbolic ceremony and not a single person  has said they have heard that or would be themselves (whether the couple told them so or not-since its not about what you think is right, its about what they think is right since it's their wedding) Maybe in NY people go to weddings to party and don't really care wtf  or when the couple in question did to legally recognize it? The vow part is only really important to the couple and their parents I would think. If someone is the type of person who would do this as a "gift grab" (which esp is utter BS when it comes to destination weddings since most people don't give gifts at them) I am not going to be friends with them in the first place. I mean-if I am traveling to see a couple get married its not just to see them become legally bound. Its to have a good time with friends and family. The legal part is solely between them.
    In all the many, many weddings I've attended I can't recall watching the couple sign their license. I can't imagine wanting to, particularly. The only license signing I can think of offhand was our best friends, who signed their license about a month and a half after their wedding in Mexico, in their kitchen. I remember it because I was one of the signing witnesses. I would be willing to bet my life neither of them could recall the date without looking at the license. Obviously to them, their wedding was the one in Cabo. They celebrate the anniversary of that, not that license signing. Which makes me wonder, I guess it's not technically legal until it's filed. Then it's still not legal until the check clears.........
  • The more I am reading about this the more I am starting to think this may be fairly regional and that its a big deal in more conservative places. I live in NYC and have asked at least 15 people today (including my conservative mother) young and old if they have heard of people being offended that they aren't witnessing the moment a couple is legally bound and instead are seeing a symbolic ceremony and not a single person  has said they have heard that or would be themselves (whether the couple told them so or not-since its not about what you think is right, its about what they think is right since it's their wedding) Maybe in NY people go to weddings to party and don't really care wtf  or when the couple in question did to legally recognize it? The vow part is only really important to the couple and their parents I would think. If someone is the type of person who would do this as a "gift grab" (which esp is utter BS when it comes to destination weddings since most people don't give gifts at them) I am not going to be friends with them in the first place. I mean-if I am traveling to see a couple get married its not just to see them become legally bound. Its to have a good time with friends and family. The legal part is solely between them.
    Honestly, this isn't something that bothered me before I started coming on here. I never thought about it before. Largely because, why the fuck would someone have JOP ceremony and then have a bigger blowout "wedding" at a later time? It's just throwing money away. So, I never really thought anyone did it. 

    And then I started posting on here. And at first I didn't get it, again, why do I care if someone is being fucking stupid with their money? And then stuff started making sense to me. To attend a wedding takes a lot of time and effort on my part. I work in sales, so Saturday's mean bank for me. Missing Saturdays significantly affects my income. I always bring a gift to a wedding. I also often end up buying a new dress (which, I'm a bargain shopper, so no biggie there, but still.) I come down on the PPD lite side, I don't really care if you get legally married first, but fucking tell me. Because, I am going to be upset that I was lied too. I'm close enough that you invite me to your wedding, to see you get married, and you neglect to tell me you're already married? Thats harsh. I'd come if I knew ahead of time, but to lie outright or by omission is disrespectful to me and other guests. 

    And there's also the family obligation weddings. Yeah, if you're a cousin I don't like, lying to me and fucking with my bread and butter isn't going to change my mind about you. Those, I'd really rather just decline. 

    Another factor, most of the time, I don't think people have really good reasons for it. Deployment can be scheduled around, and many vendors have clauses for that. Health insurance, yeah it's super important. But many companies now offer it through domestic partnerships, so again a lot of the time, it's just the easier option. If you want to take it fine, just tell me! I'm not going to side eye someone who wants to provide healthcare for their loved one, just own up to it! Destinations weddings, enh, I'm a bitch about this one, I'll admit it. Fuck your destination wedding. Oh, it's too hard to get married in the islands? DON'T FUCKING TRAVEL TO THE ISLANDS TO GET MARRIED THEN. It's not that hard, nobody forced you to travel to some far off exotic destination, you chose the pain in the ass country, deal with it. Or get married when you come back. Immigration, can be tricky. And it's a place where I'd be less side-eyey if you're not being a brat about it. But it can also be scheduled around. Do you necessarily get to plan the wedding of your dreams if you fall into one of these circumstances? Probably not, but many, many people do not get to plan the wedding of their dreams. Because that's life. 

    A lot of people who post on here in defense of these are either lying to their friends and family or lying by omission. Which doesn't help their case. Like I said, I don't care if you're honest with me. 

    I'm also pretty liberal, so I don't think this is something that breaks down over conservative/progressive lines. I do think this is something that doesn't cross many peoples mind, until a friend/family member does it to them. Some people are offended, some aren't. If you're not offended, well, good for you. 

    Legal status is important because of the benefits that for better or worse, our government ties with marital status. So, if you file for taxes as married, you'd better be married. 
    image



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  • edited August 2014
    Maybe the view I have is-why do I care if you lie by omission? Thats a detail that doesnt matter to me bc it would have no bearing on my decision to go or not. Why would it? It's not even really my business. They want you at the celebration of their marriage. I am not sure what on earth would compel someone to be adamant about seeing them become legally bound if to them that wasn't really important to the couple in question. It's their day and you can show up or not. Some weddings are no doubt a huge hassle esp if its family that doesnt really matter- but if a person is important to you their happiness is what should matter. not whether you see them become "husband and wife" under the law. 

    I didn't mean liberal in a political way so much- more like liberal in not doing things the traditional way. NYC obviously has so many different cultures and peoples melding that "american" ways of doing things isn't even expected. And as many people have pointed out-this is how a large portion (perhaps even a bigger portion) of the world does it and no one bats an eye. 

    As for a destination wedding- I've been to enough where I know that its easier for a lot of people than a regular wedding-both the guests and the couple. The main reason for this being these days families live all over the place and no matter what its going to be a "destination" wedding for them. Plus the bonus for them is their "gift" to you is also a sick vacation for them. I however would think it important to at least partially subsidize hotel rooms for people-esp for those close to you who you know want to be there but you don't want to put under financial strain. After thinking about this, to say on invitations that you are doing a vow renewal or something like that instead of "marriage" when you got married 7 days earlier in your own country seems literally batshit crazy. Like I mean we are talking petty BS right there. How little is going on in their lives if thats what concerns them at a loved ones wedding. People pick wedding venues bc they like them and want their guests to enjoy themselves. Why would they have to feel compelled to follow their legal marriage requirements simply bc its in a different location then their home and somehow that makes them disrespectful? 

    What worries me is how many people assume things like this are a gift grab, or because the girl wants some puffy dress, or have the big white wedding  or some other superficial reason. Every bride on here who has had this "PPD" has stated it had absolutely nothing to do with that yet the accusation presses on without any factual proof of it. Maybe things are different here, but that is NOT how we go about things in nyc. People for sure compete with eachother but any wedding could be considered a gift grab regardless of when or where you have it when you look at it logically. It just seems like a really dim and pessimistic view of people i guess. Not to mention  if they DO want a regular wedding ceremony that is religious or symbolic after they are legal what makes the fact that you wanted your own big wedding with a white dress any different from theirs? Your dates just lined up better or your family lived closer or the reception hall you booked didn't burn down. Yet somehow your wedding lining up perfectly means they should be denied the same thing because timing wasn't as fortuitous as yours? They are gift grabbing bc the white wedding was 5 weeks later than the legal one but yours wasnt? That makes no sense.

    That being said- I do think this kind of thing has a time limit depending on situation. Like I would think it's weird for couples to wait years and years but not many people would keep it quiet for that long hence it would not be lying by omission. That I don't understand. But a few months or weeks? whatever.

    I am truly shocked that people even think this way, and I am glad I asked others around here bc I was starting to think I was crazy. I think though it's important to at least be respectful of peoples opinions- and I think that if you do value honesty its a totally legitimate one, but yet I am glad I don't worry myself over something like that when it comes to this issue. Seems exhausting in a way.

    I am alsoa bit unclear as to why it would be throwing money away to have a wedding after you are legal but it wouldnt be throwing money away to spend the same amount or more but make it legal on the same day. That also really doesn't make any sense to me. All weddings are throwing money away but if you make it legal at the same time its not any less so then them.
  • The New York theory is....well. Interesting theory, but doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Suggestions that "New York people only care about the party," or that only the parents care about the actual ceremony,  and the suggestion that diverse culture equals non traditional. (Dallas, for instance, is one of the most culturally diverse cities in the country. Sure isn't liberal or non traditional.) Or even that non-traditional means okay with false behavior. A survey of fifteen of your friends/ family isn't remotely close to a controlled survey of the general population. So, nope, I just don't buy that this is a "regional" thing. 
  • Dallas isn't even on the list of being one of the most diverse cities in the US. Houston, yes. But Dallas? No.
    Happiness is an inside job
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