Le Sigh

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

JCbride2015 said:

lolo883 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

lolo883 said:

Oh man Doey. I'm so sorry he's putting you through this. I do agree, it doesn't seem like he wants to change or has any intention of doing so. You NEED to have a partner who's honest with you.

He has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, right?

He is likely incapable of changing these impulse related behaviors because he has a mental disability that prevents his mind from functioning at a normal level.

That doesn't make his actions ok. Especially not to just shrug it off and say "yeah, I'll do this again."

Absolutely doesn't make his actions okay at all. Just because somebody is a sociopath doesn't mean it's okay for them to go around killing people.

But it does mean that when he says he'll do it again, he's just stating reality. He WILL do it again. Because he lacks impulse control. He can't just go to therapy and fix it. This is all compounded and made worse by the fact that he doesn't seem to want to get better, either.

So @doeydo is looking at a lifetime of constant betrayal. It will not change.

This, FFS.

Many of you are commenting as if he is just some run of the mill jerk that is choosing to cheat and blow money etc, and you are saying things like, "Well if he doesn't want to change blah blah," or "If he won't change, blah blah."

He can't and won't change because he has brain damage that precludes him from changing, that's my point.

Nothing excuses bad behaviors, but some of you are commenting as if he has a choice and is choosing those bad behaviors. If he had a healthy, normally functioning brain I'd agree with you all. But he doesn't.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

SmileDamnit said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

Yep - and that was all addressed in previous threads... (ex. http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1018717/trouble-in-paradise-update#latest).

Again, it comes down to Doey doing what's best for Doey. But it doesn't sound like she's in a place where's she's really able to focus on/committ to that yet.

Yep, agreed.

ETA: I have a lot of compassion for both Doey and her FI. I'm sorry she has a tough and sad decision at hand, and I'm sorry he has had and will continue to have a difficult life.

beethery · August 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not. And where did I say or suggest that?

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. Once again though, my point is that I don't think he can rationalize and think like that. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault. Because you have a healthy, functioning brain you are able to make that cognitive connection. You do not have brain damage.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?" I can't comment on this interpretation of her relationship issues because I don't know what you are referencing, honestly. You have more info than I do. He may have the ability to be manipulative but he might not. I don't know the full extent of his disability.

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

lolo883 said:

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

No but due to his disability they seem to be tied together. It's kind of hard to separate the two.

From what I have read he's an ass because of his mental disability.

mrsmagicgeek · August 2014

My DH has asperger's syndrome. With him, it mainly means he has no clue what is socially appropriate and what is not. It also means he is basically incapable of reading facial expressions. When I met him, he could be quite an ass at times, and asperger's was his excuse for most of it. I remember one fight we got into, it was after my sister's funeral. My entire office came to the viewing, even people who couldn't stand me, but it was a gesture of respect to me, my family, and my sister (who was only 33). My now DH was the only one who didn't go. Knowing how he is (and we were just friends at the time) I would have been ok with that if he had sent a card, an email, *something* to acknowledge the loss. Nothing. We got in a huge fight, and I told him that his behavior hurt. He played the "well I have asperger's" card and I lost it. Asperger's does not give you a free pass to be an asshole, when *everyone* you know is telling you either to go with them to the viewing or sign the group card. If you don't know what behavior is expected of you, ask someone you trust (and there were several people he trusted in the office). Sometimes, falling back on the "well I'm wired that way" is just plain lazy.

He still has "aspie moments", and always will. But he hated having me mad at him enough to figure out a way to mitigate his behavior as much as possible... most of the time.

On a lighter note, he's also a boob guy. He loves the boobies. (He was never gross about it or anything but I always knew he noticed) He recently told me he knew he wanted to marry me when he was at the grocery store one day and saw a woman with her bra hanging out (I don't understand that fad) and his first thought was that someone should lend her a sweater. He realized he only wanted to look at one pair of boobies and they were waiting for him at home.

That might be weird, but I love it. It's very him.

beethery · August 2014

@PrettyGirlLost I did not mean to imply that you said that. I should have clarified. Sorry!

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

beethery said:

@PrettyGirlLost I did not mean to imply that you said that. I should have clarified. Sorry!

Hey no probs!

I'm not trying to be combative just for the sake of picking fights. I just wanted to be clear that this guy has a mental disability that prevents him from controlling and changing certain behaviors, not that he is just an ass that outright refuses to do anything about himself.

So unfortunately the issues poor Doey is having now will never stop or go away.

levioosa · August 2014

lolo883 said:

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

There is a very big difference between having a disability and using it to excuse your actions. It would be one thing if he said, "I have a disability, and I need you to help keep me accountable and to control the money so I don't accidentally ruin us." It's a totally different matter to throw his hands in the air, shrug, and pin it on an illness while blaming her for not keeping it in check. If his illness "caused" him to physically abuse or beat Doeydo, every single person would be telling her to get the fuck out (something we're all basically doing anyways). Agree with PPs, he has a disability AND he's an ass. It won't change, and it's up to Doey to decide if she can continue to put up with it.

@ Doey, I know this isn't quite the same, but my ex had severe PTSD which causes actual structural changes in the brain. But in the end it wasn't the PTSD, it was his unwillingness to get help and to take responsibility for his part. I could deal with the PTSD. What I couldn't deal with was the refusal to work through it. My ex had an illness AND he was an ass. The PTSD part made me so sad when we broke up, because I knew he would never get the help for it. When I figured out he was an ass I never looked back and I felt so free for the first time in years.

KatieinBkln · August 2014

Oh, Doey. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

One thing that I didn't see here (and I apologize if you have covered this elsewhere) but are you seeing a therapist solo, or only the couples therapist? I think it might be a huge help to you to see someone whose only job is helping you, not working on the relationship between the two of you. A solo therapist won't be colored by the situation of seeing you both, and might be better equipped to help you figure out what's best for YOU. The couples therapist, based on the things you've told us they've said, seems much more focused on keeping the two of you together and giving you a realistic idea of what that relationship might look like. I could be wrong here, but I'm not hearing a lot of "and here's what it will mean for you both if you choose to end this."

Others are so right that you do not have to put yourself through this. I don't think your FI is just a piece of shit asshole; I really do sympathize with him. But only you can decide if you can handle a lifetime of this stuff. Because that's what it is, right? It's not a situation where he can "fix" the underlying problem. If he could fix the lying, and his reactions to the moments when you find him out, would that make a difference? Would it help if he came to you the second he "slipped" and apologized? Would it break your heart any less? I think these are the questions on the table for you right now. I am so sorry; no one should have to deal with this kind of thing. Just know that you have NO obligation to stay.

As for the money, well. My first instinct was to say that you should take the entire savings account and call it reparations for emotional pain and suffering. But I'm an asshole like that.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

Time2strtliving said:

lolo883 said:

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

There is a very big difference between having a disability and using it to excuse your actions. It would be one thing if he said, "I have a disability, and I need you to help keep me accountable and to control the money so I don't accidentally ruin us." It's a totally different matter to throw his hands in the air, shrug, and pin it on an illness while blaming her for not keeping it in check. If his illness "caused" him to physically abuse or beat Doeydo, every single person would be telling her to get the fuck out (something we're all basically doing anyways). Agree with PPs, he has a disability AND he's an ass. It won't change, and it's up to Doey to decide if she can continue to put up with it.

@ Doey, I know this isn't quite the same, but my ex had severe PTSD which causes actual structural changes in the brain. But in the end it wasn't the PTSD, it was his unwillingness to get help and to take responsibility for his part. I could deal with the PTSD. What I couldn't deal with was the refusal to work through it. My ex had an illness AND he was an ass. The PTSD part made me so sad when we broke up, because I knew he would never get the help for it. When I figured out he was an ass I never looked back and I felt so free for the first time in years.

His disability- his brain damage- is the cause of his actions though. How is stating that fact an excuse? I'm talking about biological and psychological reality, that's it.

I'm not saying she should commit to this guy for the rest of her life. That's something she needs to think about and discuss with her therapist.

beethery · August 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

beethery said:

@PrettyGirlLost I did not mean to imply that you said that. I should have clarified. Sorry!

Hey no probs!

I'm not trying to be combative just for the sake of picking fights. I just wanted to be clear that this guy has a mental disability that prevents him from controlling and changing certain behaviors, not that he is just an ass that outright refuses to do anything about himself.

So unfortunately the issues poor Doey is having now will never stop or go away.

Definitely understand that.

theartistformerlyknownas · August 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

Time2strtliving said:

lolo883 said:

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

There is a very big difference between having a disability and using it to excuse your actions. It would be one thing if he said, "I have a disability, and I need you to help keep me accountable and to control the money so I don't accidentally ruin us." It's a totally different matter to throw his hands in the air, shrug, and pin it on an illness while blaming her for not keeping it in check. If his illness "caused" him to physically abuse or beat Doeydo, every single person would be telling her to get the fuck out (something we're all basically doing anyways). Agree with PPs, he has a disability AND he's an ass. It won't change, and it's up to Doey to decide if she can continue to put up with it.

@ Doey, I know this isn't quite the same, but my ex had severe PTSD which causes actual structural changes in the brain. But in the end it wasn't the PTSD, it was his unwillingness to get help and to take responsibility for his part. I could deal with the PTSD. What I couldn't deal with was the refusal to work through it. My ex had an illness AND he was an ass. The PTSD part made me so sad when we broke up, because I knew he would never get the help for it. When I figured out he was an ass I never looked back and I felt so free for the first time in years.

His disability- his brain damage- is the cause of his actions though. How is stating that fact an excuse? I'm talking about biological and psychological reality, that's it.

I'm not saying she should commit to this guy for the rest of her life. That's something she needs to think about and discuss with her therapist.

You don't know that though. You acknowledged that you don't know the full extent of his disability in another post. None of us do. It might be a scapegoat. It might not.

Either way, based on everything in this post and others, I firmly believe Doey deserves a better life.

SmileDamnit · August 2014

lolo883 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Time2strtliving said:

lolo883 said:

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

There is a very big difference between having a disability and using it to excuse your actions. It would be one thing if he said, "I have a disability, and I need you to help keep me accountable and to control the money so I don't accidentally ruin us." It's a totally different matter to throw his hands in the air, shrug, and pin it on an illness while blaming her for not keeping it in check. If his illness "caused" him to physically abuse or beat Doeydo, every single person would be telling her to get the fuck out (something we're all basically doing anyways). Agree with PPs, he has a disability AND he's an ass. It won't change, and it's up to Doey to decide if she can continue to put up with it.

@ Doey, I know this isn't quite the same, but my ex had severe PTSD which causes actual structural changes in the brain. But in the end it wasn't the PTSD, it was his unwillingness to get help and to take responsibility for his part. I could deal with the PTSD. What I couldn't deal with was the refusal to work through it. My ex had an illness AND he was an ass. The PTSD part made me so sad when we broke up, because I knew he would never get the help for it. When I figured out he was an ass I never looked back and I felt so free for the first time in years.

His disability- his brain damage- is the cause of his actions though. How is stating that fact an excuse? I'm talking about biological and psychological reality, that's it.

I'm not saying she should commit to this guy for the rest of her life. That's something she needs to think about and discuss with her therapist.

You don't know that though. You acknowledged that you don't know the full extent of his disability in another post. None of us do. It might be a scapegoat. It might not.

Either way, based on everything in this post and others, I firmly believe Doey deserves a better life.

Awe - but does Doey believe she deserves a better life? That's the real question. Whether her FI is s skilled manipulator, a product of an unfortunate mother who fucked up his mental capacity in womb, or a combination of both really doesn't matter. Nor does it matter what we all want for Doey, you know? It's what she is willing to put up with, invest in, and demand for herself. We/he/therapist can all talk/type until we're blue in the face & fingers, but until she's ready to buck up for herself, it's really all for not. Sadly.

levioosa · August 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

Time2strtliving said:

lolo883 said:

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

Yes, he has FASD.
Yes, I have Celiac disease, but I was diagnosed as a baby when I was being introduced to regular foods. So, from my memory, I have always been on a GF diet, though I used to steal goodies and hide somewhere to eat them and pay for it later.

@doeydo, I'm sorry for what you are going through and I think you have been a very strong and compassionate person to try and make this relationship work. I wish the best for you and your FI, no matter what happens.

Now, I'm reading through the comments and many of you are posting as if her FI is a mentally healthy individual who is choosing to act like an ass and mistreat her because he is unwilling to change.

This is just not the case.

He has permanent brain damage that will affect his behaviors for the rest of his life, and that no amount of therapy will "fix." He likely cannot change these behaviors, whether he might want to or not.

That's right. However, she does not owe it to him to stick around to be treated like shit. FASD or not.

There's impulse control issues where he could go alright I've made bad choices, and I'm going to accept the outcome for these shit choices, even if that means I alienate the people who love me. That's something I have to come to terms with and accept. I make a bad choice, it is MY fault.

And then there is making bad choices and manipulating someone via guilt trips and weirdness to stay and clean up your mess for you. "I make shit choices, don't super care about how it affects Doey, and I also will blame Doey for not being able to control me. I will also expect Doe to deal with this because I don't need responsibility as an adult. Doey will take care of it. Not going to thank Doey either, who does that?"

Apples and shitty, rotten oranges.

This. Having mental barriers to impulse control and being a general ass are not mutually exclusive things. He has legitimate mental problems, AND HE'S AN ASS.

There is a very big difference between having a disability and using it to excuse your actions. It would be one thing if he said, "I have a disability, and I need you to help keep me accountable and to control the money so I don't accidentally ruin us." It's a totally different matter to throw his hands in the air, shrug, and pin it on an illness while blaming her for not keeping it in check. If his illness "caused" him to physically abuse or beat Doeydo, every single person would be telling her to get the fuck out (something we're all basically doing anyways). Agree with PPs, he has a disability AND he's an ass. It won't change, and it's up to Doey to decide if she can continue to put up with it.

@ Doey, I know this isn't quite the same, but my ex had severe PTSD which causes actual structural changes in the brain. But in the end it wasn't the PTSD, it was his unwillingness to get help and to take responsibility for his part. I could deal with the PTSD. What I couldn't deal with was the refusal to work through it. My ex had an illness AND he was an ass. The PTSD part made me so sad when we broke up, because I knew he would never get the help for it. When I figured out he was an ass I never looked back and I felt so free for the first time in years.

His disability- his brain damage- is the cause of his actions though. How is stating that fact an excuse? I'm talking about biological and psychological reality, that's it.

I'm not saying she should commit to this guy for the rest of her life. That's something she needs to think about and discuss with her therapist.

I don't think we necessarily disagree with each other. I think what we're both saying is getting lost a little in internet translation. I agree that his disability is the cause of his actions. I agree that he can't change and the impulsiveness is part of who he is. She can't ask him to be someone else because it's literally a part of him. But there are also things he could be doing to help the situation and it doesn't seem like he even wants to try them (from what has been said). It's the unwillingness to work through it that gets to me. Not trying to be combative either.

I think we all unilaterally agree that we are here for Doey and that we just want her to be happy.

doeydo · August 2014

@KatieinBkln there is one therapist who we see together for couples' counselling and I also go to just for myself regarding a variety of things (anxiety, PTSD-like flash backs, etc. but also my relationship). She was the one who a couple of weeks ago said if I think separating is the right thing to do, to do it sooner rather than later as it would be more fair to both of us that way. She said she couldn't tell me that staying in it or leaving were the better option, that is for me to decide, But, I guess I see your point of maybe seeing someone who doesn't know FI or isn't treating him as well might be less influenced or biased than my current one.

sarawifenow · August 2014

I just want to add that my ex FI was a sociopath and then had a tramatic brain injury (very slight no with no noticeable damage) and he would use this as an excuse for EVERYTHING! I just really hope that Doey sees her self worth and is able to live life with a SO as great as she deserves.

KatieinBkln · August 2014

doeydo said:

@KatieinBkln there is one therapist who we see together for couples' counselling and I also go to just for myself regarding a variety of things (anxiety, PTSD-like flash backs, etc. but also my relationship). She was the one who a couple of weeks ago said if I think separating is the right thing to do, to do it sooner rather than later as it would be more fair to both of us that way. She said she couldn't tell me that staying in it or leaving were the better option, that is for me to decide, But, I guess I see your point of maybe seeing someone who doesn't know FI or isn't treating him as well might be less influenced or biased than my current one.

I mean, the bolded is not bad advice! It's possible you can get everything you need from the same therapist; I just know from family experience that it's often a lot more helpful to have your "me" therapist separate from your "group" therapist--it's not necessarily a reflection on the professionalism or competency of the therapist, but rather a "freeing" thing for you, the patient, to know that you can really let loose.

Either way, you are in my thoughts.

My last piece of advice, since I don't think anyone else has said this: Would it be so bad to move out regardless of whether you end the relationship? It seems like maybe a little distance might help both of you get some perspective. And if you do decide that you can live with things/want to pursue this relationship, you can always move back, right? Essentially, I don't see any downside to a "break," but a lot of potential upsides.

Good luck to you--we are all rooting for you.

JCbride2015 · August 2014

doeydo said:

@KatieinBkln there is one therapist who we see together for couples' counselling and I also go to just for myself regarding a variety of things (anxiety, PTSD-like flash backs, etc. but also my relationship). She was the one who a couple of weeks ago said if I think separating is the right thing to do, to do it sooner rather than later as it would be more fair to both of us that way. She said she couldn't tell me that staying in it or leaving were the better option, that is for me to decide, But, I guess I see your point of maybe seeing someone who doesn't know FI or isn't treating him as well might be less influenced or biased than my current one.

@doeydo: So the couples therapist is also your personal therapist? Yes, I think you should definitely seek personal counseling with someone totally external to the situation.

LadyMillil · August 2014

I don't know much about FASD, but it really doesn't sound like a good idea for some one to live their life with no impulse control. I'm thinking particularly about the money issue Doey mentioned previously. I may be off base here, but shouldn't he have learned coping strategies in therapy? I'm thinking along the lines of kids with ADHD that learn little tricks to help them get through classes at school.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

lolo883 said:

You don't know that though. You acknowledged that you don't know the full extent of his disability in another post. None of us do. It might be a scapegoat. It might not. You're right, but I am basing comments on things Doey has said, things she has said the therapists and support groups have said, and general knowledge of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

Either way, based on everything in this post and others, I firmly believe Doey deserves a better life.

I think we all agree on that one!

steph861 · August 2014

Doey, I didn't know what your FI's medical condition was when I first commented on this, but you did mention a condition and that it had an effect on his behaviour. So I'm going to try addressing this from the opposite perspective: what your FI deserves. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I just want to give you some food for thought.

Is it really fair to him to stay with him because you feel responsible for him and his happiness? Are you staying with him because you know that his condition affects his relationships and you fear that nobody else will understand him and give him the love he deserves? Do you feel like you're his only chance at happiness?

When somebody stays with their partner because they feel bad for them, that's not romantic love, that's charity. I don't doubt that you love him, but perhaps the love you have for him isn't the kind of love upon which a romantic relationship should be based. If he deserves to be happy, doesn't it follow that he deserves to be with somebody who is happy to be with him?

And finally, ask yourself this: would he be upset if he knew that you were staying with him in part because of his disability?

What it comes down to is respect. Please don't think I'm calling you disrespectful. I assure you, I'm not. But what is the best way to show somebody respect? To treat them how you yourself would want to be treated. And I'd bet everything I own that you would feel disrespected if you found out somebody was staying with you out of pity.

If you're not staying with him because you feel bad for him, then it's a moot point and none of this applies. But if it does ring true, it deserves some serious consideration.

doeydo · August 2014

LadyMillil said:

I don't know much about FASD, but it really doesn't sound like a good idea for some one to live their life with no impulse control. I'm thinking particularly about the money issue Doey mentioned previously. I may be off base here, but shouldn't he have learned coping strategies in therapy? I'm thinking along the lines of kids with ADHD that learn little tricks to help them get through classes at school.

From my understanding, he will always have problems with impulse control. He can try his darnedest and want to be better, but he will always have his issues. Now, certainly there are ways of trying to deal with his issues, such as a lot of people with FASD use a financial planner/adviser/whatever you call them so that they have their main things paid and are given an "allowance" so they do not spend it all in one place, so to speak.

doeydo · August 2014

@steph11814 I guess I am afraid of what would happen to him if we separated. If he would spiral down into worse sex addiction behaviours (it had been much, much worse in the past before we met) and possibly get back into his old addictions as well (drugs, which he quit years before we met). He has also said in the past how happy he is being with me, that he never thought he would find someone that would last, and that I had been a great "influence" on him. Also, I would worry if he couldn't manage the money to keep this apartment, and if his parents would let him back in their spare bedroom or not (which I mentioned in a PP that they said they wouldn't). I don't think this sort of thing is by any means the main reason I am with him, but I guess it is in the back of my mind.

BreMR · August 2014

@steph11814 I guess I am afraid of what would happen to him if we separated. If he would spiral down into worse sex addiction behaviours (it had been much, much worse in the past before we met) and possibly get back into his old addictions as well (drugs, which he quit years before we met). He has also said in the past how happy he is being with me, that he never thought he would find someone that would last, and that I had been a great "influence" on him. Also, I would worry if he couldn't manage the money to keep this apartment, and if his parents would let him back in their spare bedroom or not (which I mentioned in a PP that they said they wouldn't). I don't think this sort of thing is by any means the main reason I am with him, but I guess it is in the back of my mind.

I think it's fair to worry because you care about him, , but I just want to point out that in a thread yesterday a poster asked for advice about her fiancé that cheated with his girlfriend to be with her and you told her to leave him. You were able to spot that she was in a questionable situation, and she should get out of it... I think you owe that same insight to yourself.

ETF my obvious spelling issue from my iphone that I was too lazy to go back and fix earlier

LadyMillil · August 2014

doeydo said:

LadyMillil said:

I don't know much about FASD, but it really doesn't sound like a good idea for some one to live their life with no impulse control. I'm thinking particularly about the money issue Doey mentioned previously. I may be off base here, but shouldn't he have learned coping strategies in therapy? I'm thinking along the lines of kids with ADHD that learn little tricks to help them get through classes at school.

From my understanding, he will always have problems with impulse control. He can try his darnedest and want to be better, but he will always have his issues. Now, certainly there are ways of trying to deal with his issues, such as a lot of people with FASD use a financial planner/adviser/whatever you call them so that they have their main things paid and are given an "allowance" so they do not spend it all in one place, so to speak.

First, they are HIS issues. If there is nothing that can be done about them, you need to decide if you want to deal with his issues for the rest of your life. You don't have to. His issues don't have to be your issues too. You have said you are unhappy. If there is not much that he can do about the issues, it is unlikely he can change and he will not make you happy. You are not a bad person if you leave him. Is the looking at women on the internet and the texting the local woman also related to lack of impulse control? Is there a way for him to cope with this? Does he want to deal with this issue? And, not just saying he is going to try to work on it, but actually trying. What happens if he slips up and cheats on you? Can you trust him to be faithful? If he does slip-up, can you trust him to protect your health? I don't think you policing his phone and internet use is a feasible, long-term solution. You don't need to answer, but you should think about this.

SmileDamnit · August 2014

doeydo said:

@steph11814 I guess I am afraid of what would happen to him if we separated. If he would spiral down into worse sex addiction behaviours (it had been much, much worse in the past before we met) and possibly get back into his old addictions as well (drugs, which he quit years before we met). He has also said in the past how happy he is being with me, that he never thought he would find someone that would last, and that I had been a great "influence" on him. Also, I would worry if he couldn't manage the money to keep this apartment, and if his parents would let him back in their spare bedroom or not (which I mentioned in a PP that they said they wouldn't). I don't think this sort of thing is by any means the main reason I am with him, but I guess it is in the back of my mind.

I apologize if you've already reference this, but have you & your therapist ever discussed codependency, by chance? A number of things that you've stated &/or described feeling are characteristics of a co-dependent person (...exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others...a tendency to confuse love & pity, with the tendency to love people they can rescue...often take on a martyrs role...a sense of guilt when asserting themselves...difficulty making decisions...an unhealthy dependence on relationships...). It's a cycle that's often passed down & behaviors/patterns that are learned in childhood so it can, understandably, be quite daunting to tackle. Please, please, please Doey - get YOURSELF some help.

afox007 · August 2014

KatieinBkln said:

doeydo said:

@KatieinBkln there is one therapist who we see together for couples' counselling and I also go to just for myself regarding a variety of things (anxiety, PTSD-like flash backs, etc. but also my relationship). She was the one who a couple of weeks ago said if I think separating is the right thing to do, to do it sooner rather than later as it would be more fair to both of us that way. She said she couldn't tell me that staying in it or leaving were the better option, that is for me to decide, But, I guess I see your point of maybe seeing someone who doesn't know FI or isn't treating him as well might be less influenced or biased than my current one.

I mean, the bolded is not bad advice! It's possible you can get everything you need from the same therapist; I just know from family experience that it's often a lot more helpful to have your "me" therapist separate from your "group" therapist--it's not necessarily a reflection on the professionalism or competency of the therapist, but rather a "freeing" thing for you, the patient, to know that you can really let loose.

Either way, you are in my thoughts.

My last piece of advice, since I don't think anyone else has said this: Would it be so bad to move out regardless of whether you end the relationship? It seems like maybe a little distance might help both of you get some perspective. And if you do decide that you can live with things/want to pursue this relationship, you can always move back, right? Essentially, I don't see any downside to a "break," but a lot of potential upsides.

Good luck to you--we are all rooting for you.

I agree that maybe moving out or maybe wen just a few weeks apart might do you a world of good. Maybe stay with a friend or family member do awhile to give yourself the distance to see the whole picture.

Having a seperate therapist might also be a good idea. FI did couples therapy and his therapist basically only had one goal you two are married with kids so suck it up. FI also saw this same therapist for his depression and was basically told he was depressed because he wa a bad husband and not willing to make the marriage work. An outside perspective could give you more clarity.

In the meantime you have all the good vibes I can muster and lots of virtual wine and hugs!

dgirl82 · August 2014

doeydo said:

@steph11814 I guess I am afraid of what would happen to him if we separated. If he would spiral down into worse sex addiction behaviours (it had been much, much worse in the past before we met) and possibly get back into his old addictions as well (drugs, which he quit years before we met). He has also said in the past how happy he is being with me, that he never thought he would find someone that would last, and that I had been a great "influence" on him. Also, I would worry if he couldn't manage the money to keep this apartment, and if his parents would let him back in their spare bedroom or not (which I mentioned in a PP that they said they wouldn't). I don't think this sort of thing is by any means the main reason I am with him, but I guess it is in the back of my mind.

I am a little late to the party but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

I was with an emotionally abusive man for years. He would do similar things to your SO, the online chatting with women, sexting, etc. He was extremely manipulative, threatening and shaming me constantly to get what he wanted. Sometimes that was throwing a fit at a family function to get us to leave early or showing me gross porn shit and saying ‘well these women do this’. He’d call me fat and then hide all my workout clothes when I tried to exercise. He’d speed into breaking traffic in the car if we were having a disagreement to scare me. (I realize this is extreme and probably not what you are going through but this is what my experiences led to). He would get drunk and threaten to go drive off, making me having to physically stop him and give him an excuse to get physical. He beat down my self esteem until there was none left. He refused to go to counseling with me, so I went alone for many years. I tried to rationalize staying with him. I loved him. I couldn’t see myself without him in my life. We were really a great match, similar sense of humor/interests/etc. And of course, he’d say nice little things once in a while like how he was so happy to have me, etc. I used money as an excuse to not leave him. We owned a house, how could I afford an apartment and half a house payment? I absolutely hated myself and my life. I had thought seriously about ending it all on numerous occasions.

My lucky break came when he decided he wanted to change jobs and move. He moved first which gave me the chance to live alone and realize that I was having fun again without him around. It was like an heavy, choking blanket had been lifted. When it finally clicked in my head, when I realized exactly what he was doing to me, I told him I wanted a divorce. Immediately he was apologetic for everything. He wrote my family letters apologizing for how he acted at family functions. He offered to go to counseling with me. When I said too little too late he threatened to kill himself. So after all the ‘apologizing’ and ‘I can change’ he still pulled the manipulating controlling bullshit card. Was I concerned about him? Of course, we were together for 8 years and I loved and cared for him. But not enough to continue the life I was living.

I know this is long but reading through your posts, it just sounds a lot like my old relationship minus some of the violence stuff. Look up emotional abuse and there are a lot of great sites talking about it giving advice and how to recognize it. I know you love him but you need to think about YOU. My biggest regret is not figuring out my own situation sooner and wasting my 20’s on this asshole. I wish you luck and I hope you figure out what to do that makes you happy.

LadyMillil · August 2014

doeydo said:

@steph11814 I guess I am afraid of what would happen to him if we separated. If he would spiral down into worse sex addiction behaviours (it had been much, much worse in the past before we met) and possibly get back into his old addictions as well (drugs, which he quit years before we met). He has also said in the past how happy he is being with me, that he never thought he would find someone that would last, and that I had been a great "influence" on him. Also, I would worry if he couldn't manage the money to keep this apartment, and if his parents would let him back in their spare bedroom or not (which I mentioned in a PP that they said they wouldn't). I don't think this sort of thing is by any means the main reason I am with him, but I guess it is in the back of my mind.

You care about this stuff because you are a good person. But, honestly, it's not your problem, it's his. If he quit his old additions before he met you, it shows that he can do it, and he doesn't need you to be able to do it if that's what he wants.

Also, it doesn't matter if he is happy if you aren't - especially if he can't make you happy.

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