Updated: Maybe this is all more trouble than it's worth

raissyrais · September 2014

I'm sorry you are going through this OP. It concerns me a little that you can't seem to find the most possible common grounds while you're planning the wedding. This is big and when you'll be married there'll be so much more stuff that you guys will need to compromise on. I suggest you put the wedding on hold until you have dealt with all your present predicaments. Also, I don't know if it bothers anyone else, but it really bothers me that he has broken things or thrown things while angry. I know you said he has never laid a finger on you, but this kind of erratic behaviour scares me for your safety and your future somehow. Please, please find out if this is a behaviour trait or if it's a one time only thing.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

lulu411 said:

I've talked about counseling to him before (counseling for just him erupted to another fight, further confirming to me that he needs it) and premarital counseling for us. He sort of agreed to premarital counseling? I say sort of because at first he said no and then once I talked to him about why I think WE needed it, he said okay. But who knows, I could have made that up in my head according to him.

This is just terrifying. How do you seriously consider walking away from a 3 year relationship and planning for a future? I think stupidly deep down I feel like I can "love" us through this. But being a therapist myself, I know that's not possible and that this has to be a 2-way street. I just don't want to fight anymore, and everything turns into a fight.

ETA: He just doesn't listen to me. If I'm going to walk away I need him to know WHY. And I feel like that will never happen because all he's going to see is that he was right and I was just going to walk away in the end. There's no explaining things to him. God this fucking sucks.

It's not your fault if he doesn't know the meaning of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If everything always goes wrong in his life, what's the common denomenator?

KatieinBkln · September 2014

I'm not quoting you "officially" per your request, but GOD does this worry me: "But who knows, I could have made that up in my head according to him."

This is called gaslighting, and it's something that is an abusive behavior. Making you second-guess your own perception of reality, accusing you of making things up? This is something people do when they want to ensure that you don't trust yourself; then you'll only trust them.

This is a shitty thing to hear, I am sure. And a shitty thing to have to give a name to, even. But Estee is absolutely right that a person can, in fact, love you while also being abusive. Your FI may not intend to be abusive; he is probably doing the best he can, just like all of us. But it's clear from what you've told us that he has anger problems, and the way that he "deals" with things (including your relationship) is just not okay. It isn't healthy, and it isn't right.

I agree with others that you don't need couples' counseling as much as you need personal counseling--I mean, go to him and ask him to go with you, but if he refuses the very first thing you'll need to do is get a counselor for yourself.

It also worries me that you think you need a "reason" to leave him--but you don't. WANTING TO LEAVE IS REASON ENOUGH TO LEAVE. He doesn't get an explanation. You don't owe him some logical treatise (he will tell you it's illogical) nor do you owe him an emotional argument (he will deny any wrongdoing). If you do decide to leave, that is all you have to say: It's over, I'm going. Make sure you have a plan and a place to go TO before you do so, but honey? Nobody and nothing can make you give a reason to the unreasonable. Because it won't matter what you say, it's best not to say anything except "This isn't working anymore, and I'm leaving you."

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I hope that you can get counseling, save the relationship, etc. But what is far, far more important than this relationship is your health and happiness--to me, it seems like this relationship is completely at odds with those two things, but ultimately that is for you to decide. But I do hope that you put your health and happiness first--the relationship is secondary to that, I promise you. Sending you all the hugs, and all the courage.

chibiyui · September 2014

I came in late, everyone else has this covered. You need to get out.

*hugs*

ShellD13 · September 2014

I was in a very similar relationship once upon a time. I was young (just out of college) and naive and my first FI was very controlling. He always found a way to turn a problem back on me and make me question what I was doing when he was the one in the wrong (often certainly not always). On one occasion, I had a distressing call with my mom during our wedding planning, I started crying - he threw a couple of chairs from our dining room set (not at me but threw them to the ground nonetheless) and stormed out of the apartment - he was gone for two hours without me knowing where he'd gone. He was also very controlling about my contact with my friends and family. By the time we were engaged, I didn't have a whole lot of contact with my pre-FI friends - it was incredibly lonely because I didn't feel like I had anyone to talk to figure these things out. He too refused counseling. I FINALLY woke up and left 3 months before the scheduled wedding. It was the hardest thing I've ever done but I got out and took time to get counseling for myself to make sure I didn't repeat the mistake at some point in my future. I met my H 3 1/2 years ago and the experience was and is so different everyday! I'm so thankful I didn't settle or think that I could fix him or worse yet buy that our problems were really my problems - I can't even imagine where my life would be today if I'd married my first FI!

ohannabelle · September 2014

It's not "all in your head."

You're being controlled, emotionally abused, and emotionally manipulated.

You cannot fix this by sticking by him, loving him, and hoping. The problem is not you, or anything you've done.

This will not get better unless he gets some serious, intense therapy. It will get worse, because every time you give in to the manipulation and emotional abuse, he's rewarded, and that becomes his go to behavior for the future.

Love is not a word. Love is a behavior.

You are not being treated with love. You aren't be respected, cherished, helped, and appreciated. Your love and good intentions are being used like a weapon against you.

This breaks my heart.

theycallmelinz · September 2014

Thank you all so much for your advice and your support. I'm not ready to walk away from all of this yet, because I really do love him with all my heart and I know he loves me, but I also won't be treated like this anymore. We can't afford counseling at the moment because literally every extra penny we have goes to savings for the wedding, but I'm going to talk to him more about all of this when I get home and ask him about counseling when we are able to afford it (I'm trying to get a better paying job so this should happen long before the wedding). If he absolutely refuses therapy or won't hear me out, then I'll go from there. In the meantime, I REALLY appreciate everyone's support, even those that said the things that were hard to hear. None of you said anything that wasn't true. Thank you all for being awesome. I'll keep you updated of anything.

climbingsingle · September 2014

I really think you should put the wedding on hold and focus on therapy. That should be your priority.

KatieinBkln · September 2014

lulu411 said:

Thank you all so much for your advice and your support. I'm not ready to walk away from all of this yet, because I really do love him with all my heart and I know he loves me, but I also won't be treated like this anymore. We can't afford counseling at the moment because literally every extra penny we have goes to savings for the wedding, but I'm going to talk to him more about all of this when I get home and ask him about counseling when we are able to afford it (I'm trying to get a better paying job so this should happen long before the wedding). If he absolutely refuses therapy or won't hear me out, then I'll go from there. In the meantime, I REALLY appreciate everyone's support, even those that said the things that were hard to hear. None of you said anything that wasn't true. Thank you all for being awesome. I'll keep you updated of anything.

Do keep us updated. I am glad you see the need for counseling.

I will just leave you with this: Right now, counseling is a far better use of your money than the wedding is. You can always get married once things are right; but spending money for a wedding between two people whose actual relationship is in dire straits...well, it's just not money well spent. Postpone the wedding if you have to; the therapy is so much more important. Just my 2 cents, but remember that the wedding is a party. The marriage is much longer, and won't be good if you can't heal what's wrong.

wandajune6 · September 2014

Stop saving for the wedding and instead invest in yourself and your relationship. If the relationship can't be fixed, there's no point in saving for a wedding.

I understand the instinct but your priorities are off.

theycallmelinz · September 2014

I totally agree about postponing the wedding, but my parents are paying for half of it and they've already put a deposit on the venue. I can't ask them to forfeit that money while we figure things out, and I don't want them to know what's going on because my dad would flip his shit about FI not treating me correctly. It may come to that, but for right now I'd like to keep things on schedule until I figure out better what I want to do.

esstee33 · September 2014

Just chiming in again to agree with the PPs who've said that using the money for therapy is a much wiser decision than for the wedding. Until this is resolved, wedding planning needs to be postponed. The further you get into planning while all of this is so unstable, the harder it will be to walk if/when you need to. You're setting yourself up for an easy "but we already have deposits on all these things..." excuse later.

ShesSoCold · September 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

I really think you should put the wedding on hold and focus on therapy. That should be your priority.

This. Stop saving for the wedding and put that money to therapy. If this can't be solved, you're not going to have a wedding anyway so it's not ridiculous to put wedding money towards the therapy to repair this relationship.

When is the wedding?

abbyj700 · September 2014

wandajune6 said:

lulu411 said:

I've talked about counseling to him before (counseling for just him erupted to another fight, further confirming to me that he needs it) and premarital counseling for us. He sort of agreed to premarital counseling? I say sort of because at first he said no and then once I talked to him about why I think WE needed it, he said okay. But who knows, I could have made that up in my head according to him.

This is just terrifying. How do you seriously consider walking away from a 3 year relationship and planning for a future? I think stupidly deep down I feel like I can "love" us through this. But being a therapist myself, I know that's not possible and that this has to be a 2-way street. I just don't want to fight anymore, and everything turns into a fight.

ETA: He just doesn't listen to me. If I'm going to walk away I need him to know WHY. And I feel like that will never happen because all he's going to see is that he was right and I was just going to walk away in the end. There's no explaining things to him. God this fucking sucks.

I can speak to this: you just leave. It's horrible and painful and terrifying but you just leave. You find a new apartment and move your stuff in or you find a temporary place to stay (parents? friends?) and toss your stuff into a storage locker while you figure out your next steps.

It isn't easy but you just walk away. I can tell you from experience- it is terrifying but once you're gone, it will start to feel better. I left a 5 year relationship and it took me 3 weeks to breathe easily but I was relieved. It was finally over and things started feeling better. It gets easier over time.

Don't marry him until you've worked through your problems together in counseling. He's right- it's a lot harder to leave once you're married.

This. You just leave. Hold your breath, take the step and stay firm in your decision.

Four and a half years with a man that I loved, and I just had to be done. He wouldn't go to counseling (though he lied and told me he was), he couldn't have discussions without getting angry and screaming. I had lost so many of my friends, and myself. He kept me at arms length from my family and I was pretty much nonexistent to his.

We had broke up and got back together a million times. He always promised a change. He always promised a more long term commitment, and a family together, and us moving in, and everything I wanted to hear.

I eventually had to move to a new neighborhood and block his calls, texts and e-mails. I wouldn't let myself fall back in to that trap. And I eventually realized I had not been happy for the better part of 3 years, and my finances, figure and relationships had all suffered because of it.

It's a scary thought...to leave. What's much more scary to me now is the fact that I stayed for so long when it was so bad.

chibiyui · September 2014

lulu411 said:

I totally agree about postponing the wedding, but my parents are paying for half of it and they've already put a deposit on the venue. I can't ask them to forfeit that money while we figure things out, and I don't want them to know what's going on because my dad would flip his shit about FI not treating me correctly. It may come to that, but for right now I'd like to keep things on schedule until I figure out better what I want to do.

You know what would suck more for your parents? Paying for half the wedding and seeing you unhappy or divorcing in a few months because your FI now husband is abusive.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

I really think you should put the wedding on hold and focus on therapy. That should be your priority.

Agreed. Saving for the wedding is so very very very low on what your priority list should be. There shouldn't even BE wedding planning right now. Put that puppy on HOLD and use the money for what's important now.

climbingsingle · September 2014

chibiyui said:

lulu411 said:

I totally agree about postponing the wedding, but my parents are paying for half of it and they've already put a deposit on the venue. I can't ask them to forfeit that money while we figure things out, and I don't want them to know what's going on because my dad would flip his shit about FI not treating me correctly. It may come to that, but for right now I'd like to keep things on schedule until I figure out better what I want to do.

You know what would suck more for your parents? Paying for half the wedding and seeing you unhappy or divorcing in a few months because your FI now husband is abusive.

Yes, this exactly. I went through with a wedding when I was 24 because I thought my parents would be furious at me for canceling it. So I went through with it. I married the wrong man. And it was over in a year. You know what my dad said to me? "I don't care about the money. You're my daughter and I love you and I want you to be happy".

esstee33 · September 2014

abbyj700 said:

It's a scary thought...to leave. What's much more scary to me now is the fact that I stayed for so long when it was so bad.

Isn't it crazy to look back and realize how much time you wasted on something that wasn't serving ANY of your interests, let alone your best? Last week was 6 years that I've been divorced, and every year I look back on my marriage as a reminder that I deserve every ounce of happiness I'm capable of holding, and that anything that doesn't promote my best life isn't something I need.

I have a friend going through something pretty shitty with her not-really-boyfriend and I just want to shake her sometimes in the hopes that she'll see that she's authorizing and allowing his behavior to continue, and she deserves so much more than that. I know I can't make her see it and I have to just wait, but I wish she knew how much more she's worth.

KatieinBkln · September 2014

Imagine how angry your parents will be when you tell them--not at you, of course, but at your FI. (And I say "when" you tell them because I believe that you will someday because you'll need their support).

Now, don't turn away from that anger--that shit right there, in your imagination? That's the righteous anger your brain knows that you yourself should be feeling, but cannot. Your parents will be furious because of course they will! They love you! They know that you do not deserve this!

I don't have to know you at all to know that you don't deserve this. Because no one does. Please believe that you deserve your own happiness. You deserve your parents' outrage on your behalf! I don't know them, or their financial situation, but I would bet money that they would rather lose a few thousand dollars than lose YOU, whether to isolation (you see how already you don't feel you can go to them, right?) or to something much more sinister (anger issues rarely improve on their own).

You deserve happiness. You are entitled to honesty. I can understand if you are scared to fight for that, but please don't pre-empt your potential allies in this fight. Tell your parents. Even if you only tell them part of the truth, I think you'll find great relief in bringing in some people who are unequivocally on Team You.

JCbride2015 · September 2014

Yeah, you don't have to tell your parents everything to tell them that you think your relationship needs work and you would like to put wedding planning on the back burner. Are they good parents? Even if you tell them everything, they'll be angry for you, not at you.

Cookie Pusher · September 2014

lulu411 said:

Thank you all so much for your advice and your support. I'm not ready to walk away from all of this yet, because I really do love him with all my heart and I know he loves me, but I also won't be treated like this anymore. We can't afford counseling at the moment because literally every extra penny we have goes to savings for the wedding, but I'm going to talk to him more about all of this when I get home and ask him about counseling when we are able to afford it (I'm trying to get a better paying job so this should happen long before the wedding). If he absolutely refuses therapy or won't hear me out, then I'll go from there. In the meantime, I REALLY appreciate everyone's support, even those that said the things that were hard to hear. None of you said anything that wasn't true. Thank you all for being awesome. I'll keep you updated of anything.

Are you marrying my ex? The bolded is the reason I stayed with him as long as I did. He would yell and scream and cuss at me, tell me how I was doing all these terrible, selfish things, and make me feel awful. BUT HE LOVED ME!! And the longer I stayed, the harder it was to walk away. Because LOVE! I sure as hell loved him, but I obviously didn't love myself enough to leave someone who treated me like so poorly.

I'm sorry, but love is a shitty reason to stay in a shitty relationship.

blabla89 · September 2014

lulu411 said:

I totally agree about postponing the wedding, but my parents are paying for half of it and they've already put a deposit on the venue. I can't ask them to forfeit that money while we figure things out, and I don't want them to know what's going on because my dad would flip his shit about FI not treating me correctly. It may come to that, but for right now I'd like to keep things on schedule until I figure out better what I want to do.

You said in the other thread that you're about 7 months out, right? At that point, I feel like you've got some time before you have to firmly decide whether to cancel, postpone, or go ahead with the wedding as scheduled. That gives you time to take a break from planning and figure things out. Take a few weeks where you don't research vendors, put down any more deposits, talk about the wedding, etc. - just focus on taking care of yourself.

If you decide to postpone, perhaps you could have the venue deposit applied to a different date, but you do have time before you have to decide that. Either way, please don't base your decision on the money. Your parents love you and want what's best for you, even if that means forfeiting the deposit.

ohannabelle · September 2014

lulu411 said:

I totally agree about postponing the wedding, but my parents are paying for half of it and they've already put a deposit on the venue. I can't ask them to forfeit that money while we figure things out, and I don't want them to know what's going on because my dad would flip his shit about FI not treating me correctly. It may come to that, but for right now I'd like to keep things on schedule until I figure out better what I want to do.

If the people who love you would flip their shit about how you're being treated, it speaks volumes. If you're hiding the truth of your relationship from your family to protect someone who's mistreating you, it says more.

As a parent, I would rather lose thousands and thousands in deposits than see my girl marry a man who treats her badly.

Please stand firm about the therapy. If he genuinely loves you, he'll do it.

If he doesn't and isn't willing to invest his time and energy in your future, you have your answer: he's fine with how things are, and doesn't believe that your feelings matter. That is not love, no matter what anyone says in happy moments.

You're in a very hard place, and you need to ask yourself hard questions, and be truthful with yourself about the answers.

(I hope you know that I'm not being unkind. Just really really worried, and acting all mom-ish.)

birdybride2014 · September 2014

Don't be scared to postpone your wedding because of financial reasons.

You are far better off telling your parents that you need more time, imagine how much they will respect your reasoning! They will be so proud of you for coming to them honestly, rather than getting married out of obligation and fear (not that you don't love him, but you know what I mean). Would you rather go ahead with the wedding and be walking down the isle with hesitation or would you rather postpone it and someday be able to walk down that isle proudly and with confidence that you are doing the right thing?

Fran1985 · September 2014

lulu411 said:

I totally agree about postponing the wedding, but my parents are paying for half of it and they've already put a deposit on the venue. I can't ask them to forfeit that money while we figure things out, and I don't want them to know what's going on because my dad would flip his shit about FI not treating me correctly. It may come to that, but for right now I'd like to keep things on schedule until I figure out better what I wa

So you are going to ask them to pay more money so you can marry this child? Look, at least say you are postponing the wedding. Tell your dad. You don't have to tell him every issue (though its a giant red flag that you can recognize that he would flip out) But talk to your FI and say look, we are not ready to get married until we go to therapy. Stop saving for the wedding. If you had to pay for physical medical expenses what would you do. Say Fi got hit by a truck and there is a headlight sticking out of his arm and there is a $500 dollar copay.Would you wrap an ace banage around his whole body or would you say well this sucks, but we have to pay for this before the wedding. You are at a hit by a truck situation here. You think you don't even want to marry him! His redeeming quality is that he only a huge asshole 30% of the time? Thats over 2 out of 7 days! thats all your weekends for the rest of your life!

Also please let go of having to make him understand. You really don't. Sure tell him why you are leaving, but you don't have to "make him understand" If he could understand you wouldn't need to leave him. But you do and should.

sophhabobopha · September 2014

Come on lulu, you know what to do.

And we'll be here to support you.

JaxInBlue · September 2014

Please consider the advice of PPs to postpone (even temporarily) while you and FI work on your issues. Money for counseling now will be worth it in the long run: you will have a stronger and healthier relationship or you will save yourself an expensive divorce. You and your parents may not need to lose any money right now; because you are 7 months out, it may be possible to work out a deferral with vendors to say, 13 months from now. You may be able to transfer the bulk of your deposit, especially if the vendors can rebook your date. But that's not the priority right now - you are in a relationship were you are not comfortable telling people the extent to which you are unhappy. I get not telling your parents everything or even when there are smaller fights. I certainly don't tell my parents when DH and I argue but anger and communication issues are real challenges to your relationship and it would be wise to resolve those before the wedding happens. I'm sure they'd rather have you be confident in your decision.

SmileDamnit · September 2014

OP, didn't you mention you were a therapist? Take a step back and think about what you'd be helping your clients do in a similar situation. I can only assume you're decent, if not really good, at your job so It sure as shit wouldn't be to move forward with a wedding when questioning if you want to be married to your currently unstable FI. And you're kidding yourself (and frankly using it as an excuse) if you think that your parents would be more worried about a few thousand dollars than their daughters happiness & wellbeing.

Love =/= marriage.

Love =/= forever no matter what.

Love =/= unsafe & unfair fighting on a regular basis.

Love =/= trying to play mother to an adult who refuses to help himself.

Love =/= walking on egg shells because every day conversations about life & choices is scary.

Take pause. Get therapy. And only get married when both you AND your partner are truly prepared to be partners in life.

CMGragain · September 2014

OP, I am going to ask you a very important question.

WHY do you want to marry this man? I want at least five different reasons. None of them can be "because I love him", "because we have been together so long", or "he needs me". Start now.

Sugargirl1019 · September 2014

PPs gave good, hard but good, advice.

Since you say you are not ready to give up, let's start by broaching the conversation that started all this drama. The wedding planning. I'd find a caterer with him, drinks, and then ask him how many people he wants to feed at that price and then ask him where the money is. I know you said your parents are paying for half. But if their money isn't assisting with this, then he needs to take some responsibility over the financial portion and realize if there is or is not enough money.

Also, I would calmly explain to him that you would like to sit and talk about x situation but that he must remain calm. If he yells or starts blaming you, then you will leave the conversation until he can respect you again. Tell him this. If he cannot calmly discuss once you've laid the ground rules out, then I think you have a terribly abusive situation and there is nothing that will fix it. At least this way discovers if there is a reason WHY he is acting the way he is.

Good luck, OP! I don't want to just jump right out and say Leave Him! So good luck problem solving through all of this and finding out some true intentions here.

Updated: Maybe this is all more trouble than it's worth

Re: Updated: Maybe this is all more trouble than it's worth

Choose Another Board

Search Boards