Talk to me about Juice Cleanses

LadyMillil · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

ashley8918 said:

Okay, but you claimed that you could find scientific studies that support the benefits of "juice cleansing". Show us.

Actually, I didn't say that. I did say that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve desired results. The truth is, there haven't been many scientific studies on juicing long term, but there have been numerous anecdotal ones (which are then discredited by the scientific community for not being peer reviewed). The scientific studies that I have read indicate that fresh fruit and vegetable juices are beneficial to incorporate into one's diet. These studies also tend to focus on specific types of juice (such as beet root juice demonstrating its effectiveness in lowering blood pressure).

KatieinBkln said:

2% of scientists are liars? Shit, I'll take those odds. By that math, scientists must be the most honest group of human beings on the planet.

Really? See, I view it much differently - scientists are meant to be unbiased; the fact that some of them openly admit to modifying study results isn't something I find reassuring, but rather very concerning.

Look, I used to completely disbelieve these types of things too. But my curiosity was piqued the more I read about it, so I decided to try it for myself. For the first several days that I did my first long-term juice fast, I felt like shit and was ready to throw in the towel. But after a week I felt incredible - increased mental clarity, increased energy, vastly improved mental state. I maintain a very healthy diet regularly, so I didn't expect to feel the way I did, but the change in how I felt physically and mentally while juicing long term was undeniable.

But as I've said several times during this discussion, juicing long-term is not for everyone. I wanted to provide OP with my own personal experience because for me, it was a markedly positive one.

Did you actually read the original study? Because I did. 2% is the the pooled weighted average. If you look at the range it is 0.3%-4.9%. The percentage that admitted to fabricating results is 1%. HOWEVER, no where in the paper does it define what they mean by "manipulation". I "manipulated" a figure in my last published, peer-reviewed paper because the dye I use is blue and the journal publishes in black and white so I "manipulated" my figure by converting it to greyscale - which was clearly stated in the methods section of the paper. The type of manipulations are not stated. The reporting of the manipulations in publications is not stated. The article also doesn't investigate when the manipulation occurred and if it was caught and corrected. Does it mean a scientist manipulated data when talking with another scientist, but the data was never published? Does it mean it was published and then corrected when others noted something was off?

The peer review process isn't perfect, but it is a way to objectively review research to ensure that it was conducted properly. I've reviewed papers and rejected them because the researchers didn't use the correct control groups, did not have enough research subjects included, and because the data didn't support the results that people claimed they did. Any reputable scientific journal has an in-depth review process before any research is published. Without peer review, anything can be published. There is no quality check to make sure that the work has been done properly. I can publish any anecdotal thing I want in a non-peer reviewed publication. It doesn't mean it's something people should do. In this thread alone we have anecdotal evidence that fibre is good for IBS and fibre is bad for IBS. The only way to determine which is actually the best option for IBS is to do a rigorously controlled experiment. However, with every experiment there are outliers, so at the end we could make a conclusion that XX% of IBS patients benefit from increased fibre whereas X% do not.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

@LadyMillil I agree with you that peer review has its purpose, and that scientific experiments do as a whole. I've never disputed that, and in fact stated that I believe the majority of descriptive studies yield useful results. I also agree with you that it isn't perfect, which I why I like to keep an open mind regarding it, along with anecdotal evidence as well.

LondonLisa · January 2015

Honestly when someone says I don't have scientific evidence but I follow anecdotal evidence as a basis to pass along medical and nutritional advice, it reads like this:

KatieinBkln · January 2015

LadyMillil said:

Did you actually read the original study? Because I did. 2% is the the pooled weighted average. If you look at the range it is 0.3%-4.9%. The percentage that admitted to fabricating results is 1%. HOWEVER, no where in the paper does it define what they mean by "manipulation". I "manipulated" a figure in my last published, peer-reviewed paper because the dye I use is blue and the journal publishes in black and white so I "manipulated" my figure by converting it to greyscale - which was clearly stated in the methods section of the paper. The type of manipulations are not stated. The reporting of the manipulations in publications is not stated. The article also doesn't investigate when the manipulation occurred and if it was caught and corrected. Does it mean a scientist manipulated data when talking with another scientist, but the data was never published? Does it mean it was published and then corrected when others noted something was off?

The peer review process isn't perfect, but it is a way to objectively review research to ensure that it was conducted properly. I've reviewed papers and rejected them because the researchers didn't use the correct control groups, did not have enough research subjects included, and because the data didn't support the results that people claimed they did. Any reputable scientific journal has an in-depth review process before any research is published. Without peer review, anything can be published. There is no quality check to make sure that the work has been done properly. I can publish any anecdotal thing I want in a non-peer reviewed publication. It doesn't mean it's something people should do. In this thread alone we have anecdotal evidence that fibre is good for IBS and fibre is bad for IBS. The only way to determine which is actually the best option for IBS is to do a rigorously controlled experiment. However, with every experiment there are outliers, so at the end we could make a conclusion that XX% of IBS patients benefit from increased fibre whereas X% do not.

LadyMillil, that I have an enormous intellectual crush on you. Love that a professional scientist is around to talk about this stuff with some authority.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

LondonLisa said:

OK there are too many of these being thrown around so I am just going to put this out there:

As for juice "cleanse": that doesn't exist. If you do not have a pre-existing medical condition and just would like to add more vegetables to your diet, there are MUCH better ways to do it than juicing. However, if it is going to be the only realistic way you are going to eat your 5 a day, then yes, it is better than nothing. nothing < orange juice < an actual Orange.

However, no medical doctor worth their salt will say "eating only vegetables and fruit in juice form for a fortnight is good for you". If they are, they are trying to sell you something....

This.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of biology, nutrition, digestion, and metabolism knows that "juicing" and "detoxing" is all total bullshit and woo woo for the sake of suckering people into wasting money on quick fix weight loss.

You want to eat healthier- then just do it. Increase your servings of fruits and veggies by physically increasing and eating those servings.

You want to lose weight- then limit- not exclude- carbs and sugars, stay away from processed foods, limit your portions, eat breakfast and several small meals a day to boost metabolism, and exercise.

You want to make juices and smoothies at home just because they are delicious0 then do it, smoothies are yummy!

But there's no credible scientific research that I know of that will back any of the claims of juice cleanses and detoxing. The biological facts just don't support them.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

LadyMillil said:

teenabeenerz said:

ashley8918 said:

Okay, but you claimed that you could find scientific studies that support the benefits of "juice cleansing". Show us.

Actually, I didn't say that. I did say that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve desired results. The truth is, there haven't been many scientific studies on juicing long term, but there have been numerous anecdotal ones (which are then discredited by the scientific community for not being peer reviewed). The scientific studies that I have read indicate that fresh fruit and vegetable juices are beneficial to incorporate into one's diet. These studies also tend to focus on specific types of juice (such as beet root juice demonstrating its effectiveness in lowering blood pressure).

KatieinBkln said:

2% of scientists are liars? Shit, I'll take those odds. By that math, scientists must be the most honest group of human beings on the planet.

Really? See, I view it much differently - scientists are meant to be unbiased; the fact that some of them openly admit to modifying study results isn't something I find reassuring, but rather very concerning.

Look, I used to completely disbelieve these types of things too. But my curiosity was piqued the more I read about it, so I decided to try it for myself. For the first several days that I did my first long-term juice fast, I felt like shit and was ready to throw in the towel. But after a week I felt incredible - increased mental clarity, increased energy, vastly improved mental state. I maintain a very healthy diet regularly, so I didn't expect to feel the way I did, but the change in how I felt physically and mentally while juicing long term was undeniable.

But as I've said several times during this discussion, juicing long-term is not for everyone. I wanted to provide OP with my own personal experience because for me, it was a markedly positive one.

Did you actually read the original study? Because I did. 2% is the the pooled weighted average. If you look at the range it is 0.3%-4.9%. The percentage that admitted to fabricating results is 1%. HOWEVER, no where in the paper does it define what they mean by "manipulation". I "manipulated" a figure in my last published, peer-reviewed paper because the dye I use is blue and the journal publishes in black and white so I "manipulated" my figure by converting it to greyscale - which was clearly stated in the methods section of the paper. The type of manipulations are not stated. The reporting of the manipulations in publications is not stated. The article also doesn't investigate when the manipulation occurred and if it was caught and corrected. Does it mean a scientist manipulated data when talking with another scientist, but the data was never published? Does it mean it was published and then corrected when others noted something was off?

The peer review process isn't perfect, but it is a way to objectively review research to ensure that it was conducted properly. I've reviewed papers and rejected them because the researchers didn't use the correct control groups, did not have enough research subjects included, and because the data didn't support the results that people claimed they did. Any reputable scientific journal has an in-depth review process before any research is published. Without peer review, anything can be published. There is no quality check to make sure that the work has been done properly. I can publish any anecdotal thing I want in a non-peer reviewed publication. It doesn't mean it's something people should do. In this thread alone we have anecdotal evidence that fibre is good for IBS and fibre is bad for IBS. The only way to determine which is actually the best option for IBS is to do a rigorously controlled experiment. However, with every experiment there are outliers, so at the end we could make a conclusion that XX% of IBS patients benefit from increased fibre whereas X% do not.

Yeah, I am going to bet that most people in the scientific community don't regularly commit Wakefield-level "manipulations". . . which is when you actually falsify and cherry pick data to prove your hypothesis.

But when unethical shit like that actually happens, it's usually caught because their peers are unable to reproduce the results with the data they are required to make publically available. . .partially for this very reason.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

@LondonLisa Assuming your comment is directed at me, I never said I follow anecdotal evidence, I said I am open-minded to it. I also repeatedly stated that scientific studies are beneficial. Additionally, at no point was I ever offering "medical and nutritional advice"; again, I was offering my experiences to the OP per her question that started this thread. Did I go on to say that adding juices and smoothies to your regime is a good way to add more fruits and veggies to your diet? Yes, and I stand by and believe in that.

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

@LondonLisa Assuming your comment is directed at me, I never said I follow anecdotal evidence, I said I am open-minded to it. I also repeatedly stated that scientific studies are beneficial. Additionally, at no point was I ever offering "medical and nutritional advice"; again, I was offering my experiences to the OP per her question that started this thread. Did I go on to say that adding juices and smoothies to your regime is a good way to add more fruits and veggies to your diet? Yes, and I stand by and believe in that.

You offered AS ADVICE one piece of anecdotal evidence which has actually been scientifically proven to be HARMFUL. Stop it. You are not winning this argument. That's like saying "I jumped off a bridge and didn't die so you totally can too!" It's irresponsible. Take your one person sample size and go sit and be thankful that you didn't physically hurt yourself.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

@lollo883 I thought we were having a debate? Also, what advice did I offer? I provided my personal experience with juicing long term, and recommended adding juices and smoothies to one's diet as a good way to incorporate more fruits and veggies. That's it. Unfortunately, I was met with hostility and superior attitude (by some) because people don't share my opinion. I repeatedly said I respect (and agree with certain aspects of) the opinions of others, but have not received the same courtesy.

amelisha · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

@lollo883 I thought we were having a debate? Also, what advice did I offer? I provided my personal experience with juicing long term, and recommended adding juices and smoothies to one's diet as a good way to incorporate more fruits and veggies. That's it. Unfortunately, I was met with hostility and superior attitude (by some) because people don't share my opinion. I repeatedly said I respect (and agree with certain aspects of) the opinions of others, but have not received the same courtesy.

You could also respect my opinion that unicorns are a myth but that doesn't mean I have to respect your opinion that they are real. Same thing here.

NO ONE is arguing here that it's bad to get some fruit and vegetables somehow, even if that's in a glass of juice, if the alternative is not getting any at all.

We are, however, arguing with all of your other juice-related claims because they simply are not true, no room to argue because your anecdotes do not cancel out facts. Sorry.There's nothing to "debate" here.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

@lollo883 I thought we were having a debate? Also, what advice did I offer? I provided my personal experience with juicing long term, and recommended adding juices and smoothies to one's diet as a good way to incorporate more fruits and veggies. That's it. Unfortunately, I was met with hostility and superior attitude (by some) because people don't share my opinion. I repeatedly said I respect (and agree with certain aspects of) the opinions of others, but have not received the same courtesy.

No, we are not having a debate.

Juice cleanses are junk science, they can actually be unhealthy, and there's really no scientific evidence to back up their claimed benefits.

This is not a matter of opinion any more than vaccines causing autism. And just because we disagree and refute your statements, does not mean we weren't being courteous. When it comes to matters of science, I'm not going to take a "agree to disagree" stance on things I know to be false.

KatieinBkln · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

@lollo883 I thought we were having a debate? Also, what advice did I offer? I provided my personal experience with juicing long term, and recommended adding juices and smoothies to one's diet as a good way to incorporate more fruits and veggies. That's it. Unfortunately, I was met with hostility and superior attitude (by some) because people don't share my opinion. I repeatedly said I respect (and agree with certain aspects of) the opinions of others, but have not received the same courtesy.

The thing is...not all opinions are created equal. More on that in a bit. But apart from that, you can surely see why it's hard to separate the advice you admit giving (juice and smoothies can be a good way to add more fruits and veggies to your diet) from your anecdote about having done a juice cleanse for upwards of 20 days, right?

It would be akin to walking into a room full of chronic overeaters and saying "Hey, one time I binged on cookies for a whole day and it was actually super awesome! Also, as advice, sometimes it's okay to have a little splurge." The second thing is not technically incorrect, but the first thing is a downright ridiculous thing to do, and even more ridiculous thing to say to a group of people specifically looking to avoid overeating. The fact that one person can happily do X thing (20-day juice cleanse, all-day cookie binge, smoking for 30 years without getting cancer, whatever) doesn't mean it's a useful story to share with someone who came here specifically asking for advice on how to be healthier.

Also, I think even if you had wanted to share your story of enjoying a (ridiculously long, medically dangerous) juice cleanse, there is a way to do that without delving into the territory you find yourself in now: of trying to somehow suggest that anectodal evidence is to be given the same weight as scientific studies; and discounting scientific studies because (in a study! how meta!) a statistically insignificant number of scientists admitted to making unspecified manipulations.

"I did a thing, it turned out okay, your mileage may vary" is an opinion I can respect. "I did a thing, it turned out okay, and did you know that science is only one side of the story and for vague reasons anecdotes should be given as much if not more consideration?" just isn't. It's a bad argument, based on faulty reasoning. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, or that you shouldn't be allowed to debate on the topic. But it does mean that you're going to get less "respect" for your opinion because you haven't supported it logically.

flutteringinfl · January 2015

I've been lurking on this thread, but I just want to say that just now I mistakenly read "juice cleanses" as "John Cleese," and I thought, "Oh man, I can tell you ALL about him!"

penguin44 · January 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

teenabeenerz said:

@lollo883 I thought we were having a debate? Also, what advice did I offer? I provided my personal experience with juicing long term, and recommended adding juices and smoothies to one's diet as a good way to incorporate more fruits and veggies. That's it. Unfortunately, I was met with hostility and superior attitude (by some) because people don't share my opinion. I repeatedly said I respect (and agree with certain aspects of) the opinions of others, but have not received the same courtesy.
No, we are not having a debate.

Juice cleanses are junk science, they can actually be unhealthy, and there's really no scientific evidence to back up their claimed benefits.

This is not a matter of opinion any more than vaccines causing autism. And just because we disagree and refute your statements, does not mean we weren't being courteous. When it comes to matters of science, I'm not going to take a "agree to disagree" stance on things I know to be false.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

flutteringinfl said:

I've been lurking on this thread, but I just want to say that just now I mistakenly read "juice cleanses" as "John Cleese," and I thought, "Oh man, I can tell you ALL about him!"

I'd ike to have that discussion :-)

LondonLisa · January 2015

flutteringinfl said:

I've been lurking on this thread, but I just want to say that just now I mistakenly read "juice cleanses" as "John Cleese," and I thought, "Oh man, I can tell you ALL about him!"

I'll have you know this is a very serious topic, thank you very much! Now I will take my hat and be on my way...

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

I'm crushing on all the science going on in here.

amelisha · January 2015

I'm mostly just feeling bad for @theycallmelinz and her notifications. Eesh.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

KatieinBkln said:

"I did a thing, it turned out okay, your mileage may vary" is an opinion I can respect. "I did a thing, it turned out okay, and did you know that science is only one side of the story and for vague reasons anecdotes should be given as much if not more consideration?" just isn't. It's a bad argument, based on faulty reasoning. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, or that you shouldn't be allowed to debate on the topic. But it does mean that you're going to get less "respect" for your opinion because you haven't supported it logically.

I agree with you. But...I did do that, in my first post. I said that I enjoy juicing long term, that I've done it, and what my experience was on it. I've also said throughout this thread that it's not for everyone.

amelisha said:

NO ONE is arguing here that it's bad to get some fruit and vegetables somehow, even if that's in a glass of juice, if the alternative is not getting any at all.

Again, I agree, and that is what I have been saying throughout - the fact that adding fruits and veggies to your diet via juice or smoothie is a good way to incorporate them into your diet.

My first post in this thread was about my experience juicing, and the fact that I feel drinking juices/smoothies is a great way to incorporate fruits and veggies. I was questioned about this because of the lack of fiber and high sugar in fruit juices, to which I replied that is true, but that one still receives vitamins and minerals. Then scientific studies were called into play, which I (again) repeatedly agreed with the fact that they often yield (but not always) great results, but that I am also open-minded in regards to anecdotal evidence. At times throughout the discussion I was spoken down to regarding placebo effect and also indirectly called gullible. Honestly, at this point it appears that much of what I have posted has been misinterpreted; somehow along the way I became seen as telling everyone that long term juice fasts are recommended for all, when that was not at all the case.

Whatever. At any rate, I'm off today so I'm gonna go make myself a juice. And by juice I mean grape juice. And by grape I mean wine.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

KatieinBkln said:

"I did a thing, it turned out okay, your mileage may vary" is an opinion I can respect. "I did a thing, it turned out okay, and did you know that science is only one side of the story and for vague reasons anecdotes should be given as much if not more consideration?" just isn't. It's a bad argument, based on faulty reasoning. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, or that you shouldn't be allowed to debate on the topic. But it does mean that you're going to get less "respect" for your opinion because you haven't supported it logically.

I agree with you. But...I did do that, in my first post. I said that I enjoy juicing long term, that I've done it, and what my experience was on it. I've also said throughout this thread that it's not for everyone.

amelisha said:

NO ONE is arguing here that it's bad to get some fruit and vegetables somehow, even if that's in a glass of juice, if the alternative is not getting any at all.

Again, I agree, and that is what I have been saying throughout - the fact that adding fruits and veggies to your diet via juice or smoothie is a good way to incorporate them into your diet.

My first post in this thread was about my experience juicing, and the fact that I feel drinking juices/smoothies is a great way to incorporate fruits and veggies. I was questioned about this because of the lack of fiber and high sugar in fruit juices, to which I replied that is true, but that one still receives vitamins and minerals. Then scientific studies were called into play, which I (again) repeatedly agreed with the fact that they often yield (but not always) great results, but that I am also open-minded in regards to anecdotal evidence. At times throughout the discussion I was spoken down to regarding placebo effect and also indirectly called gullible. Honestly, at this point it appears that much of what I have posted has been misinterpreted; somehow along the way I became seen as telling everyone that long term juice fasts are recommended for all, when that was not at all the case.

Whatever. At any rate, I'm off today so I'm gonna go make myself a juice. And by juice I mean grape juice. And by grape I mean wine.

Actually, it's not though. The point of adding more fruits and vegetables to your diet is to increase your intake of fiber, among other things. As we have already stated, when you blend them into a juice of smoothie, you are removing most of the fiber, and you are basically left with sugar water.

We evolved to eat fruits and vegetables as is, not drink them via a smoothie.

hellohkb · January 2015

LondonLisa said:
Honestly when someone says I don't have scientific evidence but I follow anecdotal evidence as a basis to pass along medical and nutritional advice, it reads like this:

Off topic but I found this ecard to be kind of dumb. How are street smarts not a type of intelligence? I can think of a ton of scenarios where that would be useful.

ETA: Not saying anyone here believes this, I'm just sort of thinking out loud.

ashley8918 · January 2015

teenabeenerz said: Again, I agree, and that is what I have been saying throughout - the fact that adding fruits and veggies to your diet via juice or smoothie is a good way to incorporate them into your diet.
My first post in this thread was about my experience juicing, and the fact that I feel drinking juices/smoothies is a great way to incorporate fruits and veggies. I was questioned about this because of the lack of fiber and high sugar in fruit juices, to which I replied that is true, but that one still receives vitamins and minerals. Then scientific studies were called into play, which I (again) repeatedly agreed with the fact that they often yield (but not always) great results, but that I am also open-minded in regards to anecdotal evidence. At times throughout the discussion I was spoken down to regarding placebo effect and also indirectly called gullible. Honestly, at this point it appears that much of what I have posted has been misinterpreted; somehow along the way I became seen as telling everyone that long term juice fasts are recommended for all, when that was not at all the case.
Whatever. At any rate, I'm off today so I'm gonna go make myself a juice. And by juice I mean grape juice. And by grape I mean wine. So, every single other person in this thread misinterpreted this as you endorsing long-term juice fasts, when you super totally were not?

teenabeenerz said:

I'm late to this thread (and have an unpopular opinion on this topic!), but I love juice cleanses. NOT the master cleanse, which is the lemon/cayenne/maple syrup one, but actual cleanses where you drink nothing but fresh fruit and vegetable juice. I first got into them after watching the documentary 'Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead' (click), which I found to be very inspiring. I try to do at least one cleanse a year, for 3 days or more - the longest I did was 20 days, and I after about a week I started to feel better than I ever did in my life - more energy, increased mental clarity and better outlook, and just overall amazing.

However, I don't recommend juicing for weight loss. Have I lost weight on juice fasts? Yes - about a pound a day. Do I gain it back when I start eating normally again? Absolutely. However, I feel they are a good "reset" for the system, and the way my body responds to them (after the initial few days of "detox") makes it worth it for me.

If you don't do a juice fast, I definitely recommend incorporating smoothies and juices into your diet, if possible. I love juicing because you can get so much more fruits and vegetables into one juice than you'd be able to eat in one sitting. I love smoothies because they tend to be more filling, and they can taste like dessert and still be good for you - for example if you add cacao powder, some sort of sweetener (like agave or honey) and even an avocado to them, it's like drinking a chocolate milkshake.

theycallmelinz · January 2015

As the OP, I have nothing intelligent to add but I'm really enjoying reading all of the science and/or information you guys are bringing up, because I am pretty clueless about a ton of this.

Carry on

[Deleted User] · January 2015

@PrettyGirlLost - I actually previously linked to some articles that indicate that juicing/smoothies are a good way to incorporate fruits and veggies. Again, regarding the sugar, as I have said repeatedly I do agree, sugar does reside in fruit juice, but that's why it's good to add more veggies than fruits to juice. Regarding the fiber, as I said in another post, that can be found in the juiced pulp - you can technically drink it, but it can also be made into other edible things (such as cookies, interestingly enough). And for those who do not enjoy eating fruits and veggies, or find it challenging to eat enough of them each day, juices and smoothies can be a great alternative.

And yes, you could easily say "we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables as is, not drink them via a smoothie", but did we evolve to also eat processed crap? I would certainly argue that having a juice or a smoothie is better for you then eating some fritos or oreos.

@ashley8918 Endorsing? Or sharing my personal opinion and experience? If you mean endorse in the sense that I am expressing my approval of juice fasts - sure! For me, it was great. But at no point did I say "I highly recommend everyone embark on a juice fast", which is what people seem to believe I said.

ETA: A word

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

@PrettyGirlLost - I actually previously linked to some articles that indicate that juicing/smoothies are a good way to incorporate fruits and veggies. CNN and PBS are not a scholarly sources, and the PBS article states that, "There’s also a lack of scientific evidence that proves that juicing your vegetables is significantly healthier than just eating them. If you’re not eating enough vegetables, drinking them might be one way to up your intake" Key word is might, which in an article is code for there's no proof of this. If you remove all of the fiber from the fruits and veggies, and you don't eat the pulp, then all you are left with is basically sugar water. At that point you might as well eat a multi vitamin rather than drink the juice/smoothie. You will be getting the same benefits w/o all of the sugar. Again, regarding the sugar, as I have said repeatedly I do agree, sugar does reside in fruit juice, but that's why it's good to add more veggies than fruits to juice. Depends on what veggies you use, some are just as high or higher in sugar content than some fruits. Regarding the fiber, as I said in another post, that can be found in the juiced pulp - you can technically drink it, but it can also be made into other edible things (such as cookies, interestingly enough). And for those who do not enjoy eating fruits and veggies, or find it challenging to eat enough of them each day, juices and smoothies can be a great alternative. I fail to see how drinking sugar water is a great alternative to actually eating fruits and vegetables.

And yes, you could easily say "we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables as is, not drink them via a smoothie", but did we evolve to also eat processed crap? No, we didn't evolve to eat processed crap. . . which is why that shit is "bad' for us. You are proving my point. I would certainly argue that having a juice or a smoothie is better for you then eating some fritos or oreos. You are comparing apples to cookies now. Eating an apple or some spinach is better for you than mixing them up in the belnder and drinking them. And depending on how much sugar is in your apple/spinach smoothie, it might be better to eat the Oreo.

@ashley8918 Endorsing? Or sharing my personal opinion and experience? If you mean endorse in the sense that I am expressing my approval of juice fasts - sure! For me, it was great. But at no point did I say "I highly recommend everyone embark on a juice fast", which is what people seem to believe I said.

ETA: A word

theartistformerlyknownas · January 2015

Ohhhh @prettygirllost I really want that mug in your new siggy pic. That would be perfect to take to my recurring Tuesday client status meeting.

I'm sure they wouldn't get it.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

teenabeenerz said:

@PrettyGirlLost - I actually previously linked to some articles that indicate that juicing/smoothies are a good way to incorporate fruits and veggies. CNN and PBS are not a scholarly sources, and the PBS article states that, "There’s also a lack of scientific evidence that proves that juicing your vegetables is significantly healthier than just eating them. If you’re not eating enough vegetables, drinking them might be one way to up your intake" Key word is might, which in an article is code for there's no proof of this. If you remove all of the fiber from the fruits and veggies, and you don't eat the pulp, then all you are left with is basically sugar water. At that point you might as well eat a multi vitamin rather than drink the juice/smoothie. You will be getting the same benefits w/o all of the sugar. Again, regarding the sugar, as I have said repeatedly I do agree, sugar does reside in fruit juice, but that's why it's good to add more veggies than fruits to juice. Depends on what veggies you use, some are just as high or higher in sugar content than some fruits. Regarding the fiber, as I said in another post, that can be found in the juiced pulp - you can technically drink it, but it can also be made into other edible things (such as cookies, interestingly enough). And for those who do not enjoy eating fruits and veggies, or find it challenging to eat enough of them each day, juices and smoothies can be a great alternative. I fail to see how drinking sugar water is a great alternative to actually eating fruits and vegetables.

And yes, you could easily say "we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables as is, not drink them via a smoothie", but did we evolve to also eat processed crap? No, we didn't evolve to eat processed crap. . . which is why that shit is "bad' for us. You are proving my point. I would certainly argue that having a juice or a smoothie is better for you then eating some fritos or oreos. You are comparing apples to cookies now. Eating an apple or some spinach is better for you than mixing them up in the belnder and drinking them. And depending on how much sugar is in your apple/spinach smoothie, it might be better to eat the Oreo.

@ashley8918 Endorsing? Or sharing my personal opinion and experience? If you mean endorse in the sense that I am expressing my approval of juice fasts - sure! For me, it was great. But at no point did I say "I highly recommend everyone embark on a juice fast", which is what people seem to believe I said.

ETA: A word

Regarding those articles - yes, I noted when I posted them that they stated there is a lack of scientific evidence for juice fasting and "detoxing". I advised that what they do mention is that adding juices and smoothies can be beneficial to one's diet. I don't personally feel that eating a multivitamin - which may potentially contain fillers and unnecessary additives - is better for you than eating something that was grown directly from the earth, even if you do break it down into juice or smoothie form. And "sugar water" isn't really accurate to define juice - juices contain vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients which "sugar water" would not.

There is no way I would ever believe eating an oreo is better for you than drinking a juice or a smoothie. Have you looked at the ingredients in oreos? Smoothies and juices are not processed by comparison - sure, they are broken down, but do not contain additional ingredients and chemicals (high fructose corn syrup, for one) that are known to be bad for you. There is a reason why it's widely touted that processed foods are bad for the body.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

teenabeenerz said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

teenabeenerz said:

@PrettyGirlLost - I actually previously linked to some articles that indicate that juicing/smoothies are a good way to incorporate fruits and veggies. CNN and PBS are not a scholarly sources, and the PBS article states that, "There’s also a lack of scientific evidence that proves that juicing your vegetables is significantly healthier than just eating them. If you’re not eating enough vegetables, drinking them might be one way to up your intake" Key word is might, which in an article is code for there's no proof of this. If you remove all of the fiber from the fruits and veggies, and you don't eat the pulp, then all you are left with is basically sugar water. At that point you might as well eat a multi vitamin rather than drink the juice/smoothie. You will be getting the same benefits w/o all of the sugar. Again, regarding the sugar, as I have said repeatedly I do agree, sugar does reside in fruit juice, but that's why it's good to add more veggies than fruits to juice. Depends on what veggies you use, some are just as high or higher in sugar content than some fruits. Regarding the fiber, as I said in another post, that can be found in the juiced pulp - you can technically drink it, but it can also be made into other edible things (such as cookies, interestingly enough). And for those who do not enjoy eating fruits and veggies, or find it challenging to eat enough of them each day, juices and smoothies can be a great alternative. I fail to see how drinking sugar water is a great alternative to actually eating fruits and vegetables.

And yes, you could easily say "we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables as is, not drink them via a smoothie", but did we evolve to also eat processed crap? No, we didn't evolve to eat processed crap. . . which is why that shit is "bad' for us. You are proving my point. I would certainly argue that having a juice or a smoothie is better for you then eating some fritos or oreos. You are comparing apples to cookies now. Eating an apple or some spinach is better for you than mixing them up in the belnder and drinking them. And depending on how much sugar is in your apple/spinach smoothie, it might be better to eat the Oreo.

@ashley8918 Endorsing? Or sharing my personal opinion and experience? If you mean endorse in the sense that I am expressing my approval of juice fasts - sure! For me, it was great. But at no point did I say "I highly recommend everyone embark on a juice fast", which is what people seem to believe I said.

ETA: A word

Regarding those articles - yes, I noted when I posted them that they stated there is a lack of scientific evidence for juice fasting and "detoxing". I advised that what they do mention is that adding juices and smoothies can be beneficial to one's diet. I don't personally feel that eating a multivitamin - which may potentially contain fillers and unnecessary additives - is better for you than eating something that was grown directly from the earth, even if you do break it down into juice or smoothie form. And "sugar water" isn't really accurate to define juice - juices contain vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients which "sugar water" would not. Yes, but how much vitamins, minerals, etc is questionable.

There is no way I would ever believe eating an oreo is better for you than drinking a juice or a smoothie. Have you looked at the ingredients in oreos? Smoothies and juices are not processed by comparison - sure, they are broken down, but do not contain additional ingredients and chemicals (high fructose corn syrup, for one) that are known to be bad for you. There is a reason why it's widely touted that processed foods are bad for the body.

HFCS isn't inherently bad for you- it's just sugar.

HFCS is water, fructose, and glucose. Fructose is a sugar found naturally in fruits and vegetables, and glucose is another plant based sugar. Our bodies process HFCS, and the fructose and glucose from fruits and vegetables in the exact same way.

The reason HFCS is "bad' for you is because it's in everything, not because it's HFCS. The issue with all sugars is eating too much. Period.

Yes, processed foods are "bad" for the most part because they contain more sugars, salts, etc. than what the average person needs on a daily basis.

KatieinBkln · January 2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

HFCS isn't inherently bad for you- it's just sugar.

HFCS is water, fructose, and glucose. Fructose is a sugar found naturally in fruits and vegetables, and glucose is another plant based sugar. Our bodies process HFCS, and the fructose and glucose from fruits and vegetables in the exact same way.

The reason HFCS is "bad' for you is because it's in everything, not because it's HFCS. The issue with all sugars is eating too much. Period.

Yes, processed foods are "bad" for the most part because they contain more sugars, salts, etc. than what the average person needs on a daily basis.

Didn't they (I know, so specific, "they") do a study recently-ish suggesting that HCFS actually breaks down differently than naturally-occurring sugars? I want to say I read that it was actually converting straight to fat or some shit (or did something fat-oriented in the liver...I am not a doctor or scientist so I am butchering the shit out of this). But it's possible they weren't able to replicate that study (or that I read it in a stupid publication that conflated causation and correlation, as they tend to do).

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

KatieinBkln said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

HFCS isn't inherently bad for you- it's just sugar.

HFCS is water, fructose, and glucose. Fructose is a sugar found naturally in fruits and vegetables, and glucose is another plant based sugar. Our bodies process HFCS, and the fructose and glucose from fruits and vegetables in the exact same way.

The reason HFCS is "bad' for you is because it's in everything, not because it's HFCS. The issue with all sugars is eating too much. Period.

Yes, processed foods are "bad" for the most part because they contain more sugars, salts, etc. than what the average person needs on a daily basis.

Didn't they (I know, so specific, "they") do a study recently-ish suggesting that HCFS actually breaks down differently than naturally-occurring sugars? I want to say I read that it was actually converting straight to fat or some shit (or did something fat-oriented in the liver...I am not a doctor or scientist so I am butchering the shit out of this). But it's possible they weren't able to replicate that study (or that I read it in a stupid publication that conflated causation and correlation, as they tend to do).

No idea.

I think fructose is the type of sugar most readily converted into fat, and HFCS is made up of more fructose than glucose, I think. So there's more fructose in it that our bodies can potentially turn into fat.

I think the main issue is that our livers/kidneys aren't designed to handle the amount of sugar that we have the potential to eat daily if we are eating a lot of things that have HFCS in them- if that makes sense.

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