Unwelcome opinion huring DH's family

msuprincess04 · April 2015

DH and I took a trip to Mexico back in December. It was so much fun, and we realy enjoyed it. While down there, we took a day trip and our guide was an American. In the course of our chatting, I asked himi what brought him to Mexico. He said "love". He fell in love with an undocumented immigrant and after they got married, she was sent back to Mexico for 10 years for being in the US illegally. He moved with her, and was perfectly happy.

A few weeks later, we went to dinenr with BIL and we were talking about taking a trip to visit a friend and asked if BIL and gf wanted to go. He said she couldn't because she doesn't fly, or really travel anywhere because she is undocumented and afraid of being caught and sent back. Um. Ok. I told him about the guy we met on vacation. He didn't know anything about that, and dropped the issue.

BIL hasn't been around much but with school (or so we thought) and the GF. Then DH gets a call from his father begging him to repair his relationship with his brother and bring the family back together. Um. What? We didn't even know there was a problem. DH's father was a undocumented immigrant 35 years ago when he married DH's mom in her home country (not US), so he also took extreme offense to us "not liking her or believing she deserved love and happiness because she's an immigrant".

Did I do wrong in telling BIL about the guy we met on vacation? Should I have handled this differently and kept my mouth shut? Do I have to appologize when I don't think I didn't anything wrong?

mikenberger · April 2015

What did you say? Just telling him "We met a guy on vacation who fell in love with a resident." isn't offensive. Or infer that you don't like her.

Maggie0829 · April 2015

Yeah I don't see how you inferred that you did not like her because of her immigration status.

All you did was tell a story of a guy that fell in love and married a woman who was undocumented and because she was sent back to Mexico due to her being undocumented he moved with her and he is very happy. In no way can I see how that says that you dislike your BIL girlfriend.

climbingsingle · April 2015

I need more info. What exactly did you say? Just telling him the story of the guy that moved to Mexico doesn't seem like it would offend someone. But your "Um. OK" in regards to her being undocumented strikes me as odd.

msuprincess04 · April 2015

I told him we met a guy in Mexico who moved down there after he married an undocmented immigrant and she had to leave the country since you have to leave for 10 years before you can apply for a visa after living in the US illegally. So, it was something to consider.

novella1186 · April 2015

msuprincess04 said:
DH and I took a trip to Mexico back in December. It was so much fun, and we realy enjoyed it. While down there, we took a day trip and our guide was an American. In the course of our chatting, I asked himi what brought him to Mexico. He said "love". He fell in love with an undocumented immigrant and after they got married, she was sent back to Mexico for 10 years for being in the US illegally. He moved with her, and was perfectly happy.
A few weeks later, we went to dinenr with BIL and we were talking about taking a trip to visit a friend and asked if BIL and gf wanted to go. He said she couldn't because she doesn't fly, or really travel anywhere because she is undocumented and afraid of being caught and sent back. Um. Ok. I told him about the guy we met on vacation. He didn't know anything about that, and dropped the issue.
BIL hasn't been around much but with school (or so we thought) and the GF. Then DH gets a call from his father begging him to repair his relationship with his brother and bring the family back together. Um. What? We didn't even know there was a problem. DH's father was a undocumented immigrant 35 years ago when he married DH's mom in her home country (not US), so he also took extreme offense to us "not liking her or believing she deserved love and happiness because she's an immigrant".
Did I do wrong in telling BIL about the guy we met on vacation? Should I have handled this differently and kept my mouth shut? Do I have to appologize when I don't think I didn't anything wrong?

Yeah... what exactly did you say? Seems really odd that this situation blew up and got so dramatic...

If BIL is seriously hurt and upset, though, I would apologize. Just because you didn't do it intentionally doesn't mean you should not try to mend the situation. Like if you accidentally step on someone, don't you say you're sorry? It can just be a simple "Hey, I didn't mean to offend you or your girlfriend, and I'm sorry if I did."

It's not worth being stubborn and harming the relationship just because you didn't mean anything by what you said, ya know?

jacques27 · April 2015

Your post doesn't make sense. Your title said an opinion. Telling a factual story about your trip isn't an opinion. So what did you actually say? What was the opinion that hurt him that you left out of your post?

Maggie0829 · April 2015

msuprincess04 said:
I told him we met a guy in Mexico who moved down there after he married an undocmented immigrant and she had to leave the country since you have to leave for 10 years before you can apply for a visa after living in the US illegally. So, it was something to consider.

So basically you were giving a "hey, I am not sure you knew this" heads up and he took it as you not liking his girlfriend?

msuprincess04 · April 2015

I guess you are right. It wasn't an opinion, it was a fact (we met a guy), taken as as an opinion (immigrants are bad). BIL told his father that we were unsupportive of him and his relationship, so he has been avoiding us.

I meant it as a "heads up" since I'm sure it's something he never considered.

larrygaga · April 2015

Methinks OP slipped in a few opinions during the story

Maggie0829 · April 2015

Personally you don't owe anyone an apology. You didn't say bad things about the girlfriend. All you did was tell your BIL a story about an American you met while on your vacation. And provided him with some information that he was most likely unaware of.

msuprincess04 · April 2015

I haven't talked to BIL in months, but I'll see him in two weeks at DH's graduation party. I'll appologize then if it's still an issue.

redoryx · April 2015

I could maybe possibly see his being maybe a bit hurt or upset based on the context. Like, he says his girlfriend can't really travel because she's undocumented and if caught will be sent home for 10 years and your response is "No, it's totes cool. We met this American and his wife was undocumented and he just moved to Mexico to be with her," like it's just that easy or whatever.

That does maybe seem a little insensitive to the bigger issue of how difficult it can be for immigrants to gain legal status here in the US and sending them home and him just following her there or something is no big deal.

flutteringinfl · April 2015

redoryx said:
I could maybe possibly see his being maybe a bit hurt or upset based on the context. Like, he says his girlfriend can't really travel because she's undocumented and if caught will be sent home for 10 years and your response is "No, it's totes cool. We met this American and his wife was undocumented and he just moved to Mexico to be with her," like it's just that easy or whatever.
That does maybe seem a little insensitive to the bigger issue of how difficult it can be for immigrants to gain legal status here in the US and sending them home and him just following her there or something is no big deal.

Yeah, the biggest issue I see is the OP acting insensitive about a topic that has in the past affected her husband's family (with her FIL) and is still affecting them today. The story she encountered in Mexico is like something out a movie but I highly doubt most undocumented immigrants get the same fairy-tale ending. Her "Um. Ok," kind of indicates that she doesn't see being undocumented as a big deal, because if you get sent to Mexico your SO can just come to you!

This thread has taken up much more brainpower than I have to spare this morning.

novella1186 · April 2015

larrygaga said:
Methinks OP slipped in a few opinions during the story

I was kind of thinking the same thing. I'm still confused as to why everyone got so upset.

wandajune6 · April 2015

I can't see anything that you did wrong. However, the response just doesn't make sense with what you shared. Are you sure you haven't left anything out?

Maggie0829 · April 2015

First, I don't think OP said "Um, okay" directly to her BIL. I thing that was a more internal line of thinking at the moment she found out his GF is undocumented. I mean if you didn't have any inkling of that that may be kind of a surprise to find out.

And I also don't think OP was flippant about telling her BIL the story of the man they met on their trip. My thinking is that OP was telling her BIL that story as in a "hey, this could happen." With the emphasis more on the fact that his GF could get sent back to Mexico for 10 years and not the "oh well you can just follow her and be happy and go lucky" part.

Really you need to talk to BIL and find out what you said that led him to believe that you don't like his GF or that you don't believe she deserves love because she is an immigrant. He may have misunderstood what you said or he may have taken your words and twisted them around.

MyNameIsNot · April 2015

msuprincess04 said:
I told him we met a guy in Mexico who moved down there after he married an undocmented immigrant and she had to leave the country since you have to leave for 10 years before you can apply for a visa after living in the US illegally. So, it was something to consider.

I could see how that could be taken as hurtful. "Oh, she's not documented? Then just move to Mexico for 10 years. It will be fine to pick up and leave your family, friends, job and everything to live in a country she didn't want to be in to begin with for 10 years so that you can then start the process to try to get back into the US."

I would probably apologize and explain that I didn't mean to suggest that dealing with her immigration status is trivial or that there was an easy solution. I'd also say that I wasn't suggesting that I wanted them to move away.

redoryx · April 2015

Maggie0829 said:
First, I don't think OP said "Um, okay" directly to her BIL. I thing that was a more internal line of thinking at the moment she found out his GF is undocumented. I mean if you didn't have any inkling of that that may be kind of a surprise to find out.

And I also don't think OP was flippant about telling her BIL the story of the man they met on their trip. My thinking is that OP was telling her BIL that story as in a "hey, this could happen." With the emphasis more on the fact that his GF could get sent back to Mexico for 10 years and not the "oh well you can just follow her and be happy and go lucky" part.

Really you need to talk to BIL and find out what you said that led him to believe that you don't like his GF or that you don't believe she deserves love because she is an immigrant. He may have misunderstood what you said or he may have taken your words and twisted them around.

I'd see that as worse: her BIL already said his gf knows she can be sent back, that's why she's worried about being caught -- so pointing that she can be sent back for an entire decade doesn't look super supportive.

BIL: She doesn't travel, she's worried she could get caught and sent back to Mexico.

OP: Oh, yeah. We met this American. His wife was undocumented and got sent home for 10 years.

BIL: ....Thanks?

Maggie0829 · April 2015

redoryx said:

Maggie0829 said:
First, I don't think OP said "Um, okay" directly to her BIL. I thing that was a more internal line of thinking at the moment she found out his GF is undocumented. I mean if you didn't have any inkling of that that may be kind of a surprise to find out.

And I also don't think OP was flippant about telling her BIL the story of the man they met on their trip. My thinking is that OP was telling her BIL that story as in a "hey, this could happen." With the emphasis more on the fact that his GF could get sent back to Mexico for 10 years and not the "oh well you can just follow her and be happy and go lucky" part.

Really you need to talk to BIL and find out what you said that led him to believe that you don't like his GF or that you don't believe she deserves love because she is an immigrant. He may have misunderstood what you said or he may have taken your words and twisted them around.

I'd see that as worse: her BIL already said his gf knows she can be sent back, that's why she's worried about being caught -- so pointing that she can be sent back for an entire decade doesn't look super supportive.
BIL: She doesn't travel, she's worried she could get caught and sent back to Mexico.
OP: Oh, yeah. We met this American. His wife was undocumented and got sent home for 10 years.
BIL: ....Thanks?

I'm sorry but I think people are just too fucking sensitive.

This is nothing for BIL to get that upset over. And it certainly doesn't equal OP not liking the GF of thinking that she doesn't deserve love. So OP shared a story about a man they met on vacation. She only shared a fucking story. And apparently that now equates her to be insensitive and rude and not liking the GF and thinking the GF doesn't deserve love? That is beyond ridiculous. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

msuprincess04 · April 2015

I didn't consider what his reaction would be. He's an adult and if he chooses to be with her knowing the risks associated with that, then more power to him. I just wanted him to be aware of those risks, and I know he never considered that.

No, my explicit response was not "Um. Ok." That was internal dialogue.

And no, I didn't mean that it'll all work out if she/they just leave for a few years (like it's nothing). I just don't think he even considered it a possibility.

DH's father is upset because he was an illegal immigrant, and, based on what BIL told him, I basically told him not to marry his GF. As if he shouldn't have married MIL. But, in their case, he didn't have to leave the country to gain citizenship there. And I never told BIL that he shouldn't marry her.

jacques27 · April 2015

I'm going to operate under the premise that OP didn't really slip in some additional opinions. Granted, tone can be everything sometimes.

My guess is one of two things.
1. The tone came off a lecture from someone who doesn't have the same experience as his family. He probably is already aware off those risks and maybe was offended by getting lectured by someone's vacation story. I'm also going to guess that they don't go advertising her illegal status for fear of deportation. He was confiding in you. He was trusting you with information that could have dire consequences in the wrong hands and was met with a vacation story and a warning instead of understanding and acceptance.

2. It could have been the straw that broke the camels back. Between anti-immigration propaganda and others who may have given the same warning in a different tone, he may have assumed hidden subtext of "you need to dump this girl".

Did you necessarily do something wrong? No. But what does digging your heels in buy you? What purpose does righteous indignation serve just because technically you didn't do anything wrong? Presumably this is someone you care about and should at least feel sorry that a misunderstanding occurred or that maybe you conveyed your thoughts poorly.

littlepep · April 2015

redoryx said:

Maggie0829 said:
First, I don't think OP said "Um, okay" directly to her BIL. I thing that was a more internal line of thinking at the moment she found out his GF is undocumented. I mean if you didn't have any inkling of that that may be kind of a surprise to find out.

And I also don't think OP was flippant about telling her BIL the story of the man they met on their trip. My thinking is that OP was telling her BIL that story as in a "hey, this could happen." With the emphasis more on the fact that his GF could get sent back to Mexico for 10 years and not the "oh well you can just follow her and be happy and go lucky" part.

Really you need to talk to BIL and find out what you said that led him to believe that you don't like his GF or that you don't believe she deserves love because she is an immigrant. He may have misunderstood what you said or he may have taken your words and twisted them around.

I'd see that as worse: her BIL already said his gf knows she can be sent back, that's why she's worried about being caught -- so pointing that she can be sent back for an entire decade doesn't look super supportive.
BIL: She doesn't travel, she's worried she could get caught and sent back to Mexico.
OP: Oh, yeah. We met this American. His wife was undocumented and got sent home for 10 years.
BIL: ....Thanks?

Eh. I'm on the fence here. I get that it can come across a little off. It sounds like OP was trying to say here's something you should think about. I could see how the brother might think, yeah ok we already know that thanks. But I also agree with Maggie that it sounds like he's being a little too sensitive. I think it's a stretch to assume she isn't supportive of their relationship.

MyNameIsNot · April 2015

msuprincess04 said:
I didn't consider what his reaction would be. He's an adult and if he chooses to be with her knowing the risks associated with that, then more power to him. I just wanted him to be aware of those risks, and I know he never considered that.
No, my explicit response was not "Um. Ok." That was internal dialogue.
And no, I didn't mean that it'll all work out if she/they just leave for a few years (like it's nothing). I just don't think he even considered it a possibility.
DH's father is upset because he was an illegal immigrant, and, based on what BIL told him, I basically told him not to marry his GF. As if he shouldn't have married MIL. But, in their case, he didn't have to leave the country to gain citizenship there. And I never told BIL that he shouldn't marry her.

Yeah, this is where I think you've gone sideways.

He is dating an undocumented immigrant, and is the son of someone who was undocumented in the US for a period of time. You "know" he never considered the risks? I'm sure he is well aware of the risks, and doesn't need you to point them out.

Maybe he's being overly sensitive, but I can see how this could be taken as hurtful. I think you need to clear the air and apologize that your comments hurt them.

redoryx · April 2015

littlepep said:

redoryx said:

Maggie0829 said:
First, I don't think OP said "Um, okay" directly to her BIL. I thing that was a more internal line of thinking at the moment she found out his GF is undocumented. I mean if you didn't have any inkling of that that may be kind of a surprise to find out.

And I also don't think OP was flippant about telling her BIL the story of the man they met on their trip. My thinking is that OP was telling her BIL that story as in a "hey, this could happen." With the emphasis more on the fact that his GF could get sent back to Mexico for 10 years and not the "oh well you can just follow her and be happy and go lucky" part.

Really you need to talk to BIL and find out what you said that led him to believe that you don't like his GF or that you don't believe she deserves love because she is an immigrant. He may have misunderstood what you said or he may have taken your words and twisted them around.

I'd see that as worse: her BIL already said his gf knows she can be sent back, that's why she's worried about being caught -- so pointing that she can be sent back for an entire decade doesn't look super supportive.
BIL: She doesn't travel, she's worried she could get caught and sent back to Mexico.
OP: Oh, yeah. We met this American. His wife was undocumented and got sent home for 10 years.
BIL: ....Thanks?
Eh. I'm on the fence here. I get that it can come across a little off. It sounds like OP was trying to say here's something you should think about. I could see how the brother might think, yeah ok we already know that thanks. But I also agree with Maggie that it sounds like he's being a little too sensitive. I think it's a stretch to assume she isn't supportive of their relationship.

That's fair, I was just trying to illustrate why the BIL & FFIL might be reacting they way they are. Getting status in the US is an arduous process: even if you're here legally on a Green Card it still takes years to gain citizenship. The undocumented factor just brings up a whole host of other issues that, yes, makes people sensitive.

Maggie0829 · April 2015

redoryx said:

littlepep said:

redoryx said:

Maggie0829 said:
First, I don't think OP said "Um, okay" directly to her BIL. I thing that was a more internal line of thinking at the moment she found out his GF is undocumented. I mean if you didn't have any inkling of that that may be kind of a surprise to find out.

And I also don't think OP was flippant about telling her BIL the story of the man they met on their trip. My thinking is that OP was telling her BIL that story as in a "hey, this could happen." With the emphasis more on the fact that his GF could get sent back to Mexico for 10 years and not the "oh well you can just follow her and be happy and go lucky" part.

Really you need to talk to BIL and find out what you said that led him to believe that you don't like his GF or that you don't believe she deserves love because she is an immigrant. He may have misunderstood what you said or he may have taken your words and twisted them around.

I'd see that as worse: her BIL already said his gf knows she can be sent back, that's why she's worried about being caught -- so pointing that she can be sent back for an entire decade doesn't look super supportive.
BIL: She doesn't travel, she's worried she could get caught and sent back to Mexico.
OP: Oh, yeah. We met this American. His wife was undocumented and got sent home for 10 years.
BIL: ....Thanks?
Eh. I'm on the fence here. I get that it can come across a little off. It sounds like OP was trying to say here's something you should think about. I could see how the brother might think, yeah ok we already know that thanks. But I also agree with Maggie that it sounds like he's being a little too sensitive. I think it's a stretch to assume she isn't supportive of their relationship.
That's fair, I was just trying to illustrate why the BIL & FFIL might be reacting they way they are. Getting status in the US is an arduous process: even if you're here legally on a Green Card it still takes years to gain citizenship. The undocumented factor just brings up a whole host of other issues that, yes, makes people sensitive.

I get that it may make them sensitive, but to make the leap that OP doesn't like the GF and think that she doesn't deserve love is completely out of line on their part.

LondonLisa · April 2015

And, as soon as you said "I just wanted him to know the risks" I think that is where it went all pear shaped. Trust me, he knows the risks, and I bet they live in terror of it every day. If you then said "i know someone who was deported and her husband had to move to Mexico" can just have a result of them thinking "Oh great, thanks, I thought this would be a relaxing dinner but now Im getting lectured on how my life choices are going to end terribly".

I think you should just call up BiL and say "Hi John, I'm really saddened to hear that you were upset over something I said at dinner. It was absolutely never my intention to insult you, Mary or your relationship. I really enjoy both of your company. In my attempt to share what I thought another sweet story of love conquering all I'm afraid I may have been insensitive to the challenges you are facing. For that, I am truly sorry. I will do my best to be more sensitive in the future, and I hope I can make it up to you and we can get past this, as I would hate for this to do permanent damage to a relationship I treasure." Then just listen.

He may give you some insight into what was said, but some people just have sensitive topics. Yes, you may have no idea exactly why he was upset, but the point is, he was. And I think if you lead with an apology, it will get him talking. I'm willing to bet he says something like "Its ok, I was having a bad day, it is so hard because XYZ (about challenges he faces in this situation)".

I think saying that (and not getting defensive) and just listening will go a long way.

msuprincess04 · April 2015

DH and his parents are legal immigrants into this country, who've attained citizenship. DH doesn't understand the drama, and that's what had me seeking another opinion.

Even if it came from an good place, it offended him, and I will appologize for hurting him.

I will take all of this into consideration. He's young and in love, I will try to remember what that's like.

larrygaga · April 2015

You will try to remember what it's like to love in the face of adversary? I should hope you apologize it's not your place to lecture them.

How about you help them figure out how to get her citizenship instead?

[Deleted User] · April 2015

Woof! I have a handful of close friends who are in the process of trying to attain citizenship and although I have never experienced it myself, from my second-hand knowledge it is absolutely draining. For example, in a past court date, where Friend A appeared to "sign some documents" (he was told by lawyers), they arrested him, put him in prison, and threatened to deport him. (In a similar vein, they later deported his brother.) Let me remind you that he went there to continue the "apply for citizenship" process aka he was no longer dodging the law. I can't believe how many hoops people have to jump through (and they $$$$ they have to spend) to attain citizenship, but, I digress.

OP, I do think it could have come off as flippant, but we all know that is not how you meant it. I think apologizing would be the best way to move on, and it sounds like you already know that, so that's good. Prior to knowing what I now know about the whole process, I might have said something similar, thinking it was a sweet story. But now I know just how incredibly stressful the process is, and how often these people lose loved ones due to deportation. I think they are probably just over-sensitive about the issue because it is probably in the forefront of their minds at all times.

ETA: Words are hard

ohannabelle · April 2015

I can't see anything that you did wrong. However, the response just doesn't make sense with what you shared. Are you sure you haven't left anything out?

This is my reaction as well. Without meaning to be unkind, I'm picking up a distinct tone of condescension.

There just seems to be a missing piece of story.

"I told him we met a guy in Mexico who moved down there after he married an undocmented immigrant and she had to leave the country since you have to leave for 10 years before you can apply for a visa after living in the US illegally. So, it was something to consider."

Exactly what was it that you were asking him to consider?

Were you letting him know that his girlfriend might be deported? Pretty safe to assume they already knew this, and that might come across as offensive- when people clue you in on information that you're already well aware of. It can come across as assuming they're stoopid and need to be educated.

Or perhaps they thought you were suggesting that they move to Mexico, and that was "something to consider?"

Because that could be pretty offensive. The last time I suggested someone move away, I wasn't being nice. Because there's no nice way to say, hey, you know what might work? You leave the country.

Unwelcome opinion huring DH's family

Re: Unwelcome opinion huring DH's family

Choose Another Board

Search Boards