Including Other Close Friends

katsandtatts · May 2016

So my fiance has a group of guy friends that he has been close with since high school and before. He automatically knew who he wanted to have as his best man and three of his groomsmen.

The problem is that he has three other friends that he wants to include in some way or another. Two of the friends we figured out easily what roles would suit them (one will play guitar for our ceremony and the other will be our MC along with the DJ). However the third friend doesn't seem to fit anywhere...

I am okay with him being a groomsman and having uneven sides, but my fiance is not sure if they are *that* close. Plus this friend is unemployed and discussing possibly leaving the province for work in the next year or so, so we are afraid of him flaking out. He is a very quiet guy so having him doing a speech/ reading won't work, and we aren't religious so there will be no prayers or blessings for him to read. Other groomsmen are assuming he's included somehow (which we need to nip in the bud) and talking to him about the wedding, so we want to ask him to do something before he makes any assumptions himself...

I am 100% against asking him to be a guestbook attendant or something ridiculous where he pretty much has to work at our wedding, but we're having a hard time thinking of another role!! One role that I've seen in my searches is ring warmers, does anyone have any experiences with this? Like an adult ring bearer almost!

We don't feel obligated to include him per se, my fiance just wants to at least ask him to do something and then if he is not comfortable based on potentially leaving the province or affordability he can absolutely decline with no hard feelings from us...

Sorry for the super long post... Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Tyvm · May 2016

So, most on this board will be leery of assigning a normally juvenile role to an adult (i.e., the ring bearer)...and ushers aren't a thing...and if he can't be a reader (there are secular readings, poems, court rulings, etc. that make nice non-religious moments that don't have to be super lengthy)...who's escorting the grandmothers down the aisle to their seats? That's a possibility.

Why can't he be a groomsman? What does it matter if he flakes out? If you ask him, and he declines due to budget/moving, that's fine too!

climbingsingle · May 2016

A ring warmer? That's got to be one of the silliest made up titles I've ever heard. I'd be offended if someone asked me to do this.

Being a guest in an honor. You don't need to come up with jobs or titles for people. I wanted only a MOH - I didn't want a large wedding party. That doesn't mean that my other 6 best friends weren't important to me. I didn't assign them tasks. They were guests, there to enjoy the day.

Also, the people in your wedding party are in your wedding party for YOU to honor them. It's not the other way around. I don't see why this person not having a job means anything. All he needs to do is show up the day of the wedding. What would he flake out on?

levioosa · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

So my fiance has a group of guy friends that he has been close with since high school and before. He automatically knew who he wanted to have as his best man and three of his groomsmen.

The problem is that he has three other friends that he wants to include in some way or another. Two of the friends we figured out easily what roles would suit them (one will play guitar for our ceremony and the other will be our MC along with the DJ). However the third friend doesn't seem to fit anywhere...

I am okay with him being a groomsman and having uneven sides, but my fiance is not sure if they are *that* close. Plus this friend is unemployed and discussing possibly leaving the province for work in the next year or so, so we are afraid of him flaking out. He is a very quiet guy so having him doing a speech/ reading won't work, and we aren't religious so there will be no prayers or blessings for him to read. Other groomsmen are assuming he's included somehow (which we need to nip in the bud) and talking to him about the wedding, so we want to ask him to do something before he makes any assumptions himself...

I am 100% against asking him to be a guestbook attendant or something ridiculous where he pretty much has to work at our wedding, but we're having a hard time thinking of another role!! One role that I've seen in my searches is ring warmers, does anyone have any experiences with this? Like an adult ring bearer almost!

We don't feel obligated to include him per se, my fiance just wants to at least ask him to do something and then if he is not comfortable based on potentially leaving the province or affordability he can absolutely decline with no hard feelings from us...

Sorry for the super long post... Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Either make him a groomsmen, or let the man be a guest. Everything else is a silly and made up title. I'd also re-think asking your friend to be an MC. "Congrats, buddy! You weren't good enough to be a groomsman, but you can work for the whole wedding as free unpaid labor!" Yeah, no.

Heffalump · May 2016

This isn't kindergarten, and not everyone has to have a little job to make them feel special. If you can't think of a special role for someone, odds are it's unnecessary. Invite them, celebrate with them, and call it a day.

redoryx · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

So my fiance has a group of guy friends that he has been close with since high school and before. He automatically knew who he wanted to have as his best man and three of his groomsmen.

The problem is that he has three other friends that he wants to include in some way or another. Two of the friends we figured out easily what roles would suit them (one will play guitar for our ceremony and the other will be our MC along with the DJ). However the third friend doesn't seem to fit anywhere...

I am okay with him being a groomsman and having uneven sides, but my fiance is not sure if they are *that* close. Plus this friend is unemployed and discussing possibly leaving the province for work in the next year or so, so we are afraid of him flaking out. He is a very quiet guy so having him doing a speech/ reading won't work, and we aren't religious so there will be no prayers or blessings for him to read. Other groomsmen are assuming he's included somehow (which we need to nip in the bud) and talking to him about the wedding, so we want to ask him to do something before he makes any assumptions himself...

I am 100% against asking him to be a guestbook attendant or something ridiculous where he pretty much has to work at our wedding, but we're having a hard time thinking of another role!! One role that I've seen in my searches is ring warmers, does anyone have any experiences with this? Like an adult ring bearer almost!

We don't feel obligated to include him per se, my fiance just wants to at least ask him to do something and then if he is not comfortable based on potentially leaving the province or affordability he can absolutely decline with no hard feelings from us...

Sorry for the super long post... Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated!!

uhhhhhhhh every DJ I've known and seen does their own MC-ing. Also, are you paying this friend? Because that's a legitimate JOB, not just some honorary role you give someone because you feel it necessary to make everyone feel special.

climbingsingle · May 2016

Yes, PPs are right. Being the MC is a JOB. You're essentially making your friend work during the reception. That's pretty damn rude. You've turned your friend into a vendor. How much MC-ing will he be doing? When does he get to eat?

thisismynickname2 · May 2016

Same with playing ceremony music. That's a paid job, not an honor. If the guy volunteered, you can feel free to take him up on the offer, but please don't ask.

Jen4948 · May 2016

Silly, made up titles and roles like "ring warmer" don't honor the people you are asking to fill them, just as being asked to work a wedding for free doesn't.

As PPs have noted, weddings aren't grade schools where every single person needs a "role." If he can't be a groomsman (which I don't see why) or a reader, then just have him as a guest. That's an important honor by itself.

Heffalump · May 2016

Elaine: I can't stand Joe Mayo's parties. You know, the second you walk in, he's got you workin' for him. 'Hey, can you do me a favor? Can you keep an eye on the ice, make sure we have enough?' Uh...

[Joe Mayo walking up to the gang with an armload of guests' coats.]

Joe Mayo: Elaine...

Elaine: Hey, Joe Mayo.

Joe Mayo: I need you to be in charge of coats.

[Elaine being given all the coats and Puddy's fur coat thrown on top.]

Elaine: Oh, fantastic.

OliveOilsMom · May 2016

OP - Why do you think its ok to not give this last guy a "crappy" job like being a guest book attendant, but perfectly fine with the other two guys playing MC and guitar during the ceremony? They are all jobs that should be covered by a person you hire or a basket. They are all on the same level.

If your FI really wants these 3 guys included, they should all be GM. Or they can all attend as guests. I had 5 BM to my H's 3 GM. Everything worked out fine, all the people WE wanted to honor were standing up in our WP and not performing or working the event.

TNDancer · May 2016

I don't think you need a person to be a ring warmer. My sister had a ring warming at her wedding. Basically the rings were on a dish and passed around for people to pray over them, etc prior to the ceremony. I think this only worked because there were about 25 people there.

bohobrideCA · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

So my fiance has a group of guy friends that he has been close with since high school and before. He automatically knew who he wanted to have as his best man and three of his groomsmen.

The problem is that he has three other friends that he wants to include in some way or another. Two of the friends we figured out easily what roles would suit them (one will play guitar for our ceremony and the other will be our MC along with the DJ). However the third friend doesn't seem to fit anywhere...

I am okay with him being a groomsman and having uneven sides, but my fiance is not sure if they are *that* close. Plus this friend is unemployed and discussing possibly leaving the province for work in the next year or so, so we are afraid of him flaking out. He is a very quiet guy so having him doing a speech/ reading won't work, and we aren't religious so there will be no prayers or blessings for him to read. Other groomsmen are assuming he's included somehow (which we need to nip in the bud) and talking to him about the wedding, so we want to ask him to do something before he makes any assumptions himself...

I am 100% against asking him to be a guestbook attendant or something ridiculous where he pretty much has to work at our wedding, but we're having a hard time thinking of another role!! One role that I've seen in my searches is ring warmers, does anyone have any experiences with this? Like an adult ring bearer almost!

We don't feel obligated to include him per se, my fiance just wants to at least ask him to do something and then if he is not comfortable based on potentially leaving the province or affordability he can absolutely decline with no hard feelings from us...

Sorry for the super long post... Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated!!

This is your answer. Invite him as a guest, as PP's have said, it's an honor to be invited to a wedding.

artbyallie · May 2016

thisismynickname said:

Same with playing ceremony music. That's a paid job, not an honor. If the guy volunteered, you can feel free to take him up on the offer, but please don't ask.

I was thinking this as well, at least if it's something the person does professionally (whether part-time/gig or full-time. Don't ask people to work at your wedding if you're not paying them.

ei34 · May 2016

If your FI really wants his friend included, he should ask him to be a GM. The friend is free to decline.

ILoveBeachMusic · May 2016

artbyallie said:

thisismynickname said:

Same with playing ceremony music. That's a paid job, not an honor. If the guy volunteered, you can feel free to take him up on the offer, but please don't ask.

I was thinking this as well, at least if it's something the person does professionally (whether part-time/gig or full-time. Don't ask people to work at your wedding if you're not paying them.

I think this is relationship dependent. In our family, one of my SIL is a musician. As the wedding gift to several couples (myself & H 30+ years ago) she plays in the wedding.

katsandtatts · May 2016

Thanks to those who gave opinions and advice based on my actual query. However, to those who gave unsolicited advice about decisions we have already made please remember that I did not ask for help on that topic. You can call me rude all you want but this website it not designed for you to come on here and judge people beyond an anonymous name. Our one friend is happy to play a couple songs for our wedding and considers it an honour to have been asked. Our other friend that will be doing some of the MCing will literally only be introducing the speeches and giving a small speech himself so we have a personal touch; the DJ will do all the other actual work related stuff. This is extremely common, and again he is honoured to be included. I did not include these details in my original post because they were not pertinent to the discussion. In my opinion, there is no difference between having someone do a reading at your ceremony (where you could instead PAY an officiant to do this) and having someone play acoustic guitar for a few songs (where you could also PAY to have this done by the DJ and played through speakers and not live); it's completely similar but somewhere some wedding gods have decided what is okay and what is not. We are not traditional and we were looking for some fun advice, not judgement. Rant over.

levioosa · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

Thanks to those who gave opinions and advice based on my actual query. However, to those who gave unsolicited advice about decisions we have already made please remember that I did not ask for help on that topic. You can call me rude all you want but this website it not designed for you to come on here and judge people beyond an anonymous name. Our one friend is happy to play a couple songs for our wedding and considers it an honour to have been asked. Our other friend that will be doing some of the MCing will literally only be introducing the speeches and giving a small speech himself so we have a personal touch; the DJ will do all the other actual work related stuff. This is extremely common, and again he is honoured to be included. I did not include these details in my original post because they were not pertinent to the discussion. In my opinion, there is no difference between having someone do a reading at your ceremony (where you could instead PAY an officiant to do this) and having someone play acoustic guitar for a few songs (where you could also PAY to have this done by the DJ and played through speakers and not live); it's completely similar but somewhere some wedding gods have decided what is okay and what is not. We are not traditional and we were looking for some fun advice, not judgement. Rant over.

You posted on an open forum with rude ideas, so you were going to get called out on it. Your friends are not free help to use. Have them be groomsmen, or let them be guests. We believe in treating your friends and family well, something you apparently disagree with. Go nuts, be non-traditional. Have cookies instead of cake, have a Star Wars themed wedding, forgo having a wedding party, none of that stuff actually matters. We advocate for treating the people you love well, even when you're trying to be "non-traditional." Right now you're treating them like they are free labor, and, spoiler alert, that's not an honor.

Tyvm · May 2016

However, to those who gave unsolicited advice about decisions we have already made please remember that I did not ask for help on that topic.

YAAAAAWN. Not rude, just old news. 'Could probably search for that exact phrase on the forums and find another OP with her panties in a bunch over the exact.same.thing. This is TK, everyone's looking to catch your etiquette slip-ups (like catching you before you fall, but it P/O the original posters!). WB and WW are likely more your scene.

TK doesn't generally believe in "regional etiquette" and so doesn't really believe too much in the "know your people" principle. Lurk a bit more and you'll figure it out

katsandtatts · May 2016

Yikes. Just yikes...

crowsgirl15 · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

Thanks to those who gave opinions and advice based on my actual query. However, to those who gave unsolicited advice about decisions we have already made please remember that I did not ask for help on that topic. You can call me rude all you want but this website it not designed for you to come on here and judge people beyond an anonymous name. Our one friend is happy to play a couple songs for our wedding and considers it an honour to have been asked. Our other friend that will be doing some of the MCing will literally only be introducing the speeches and giving a small speech himself so we have a personal touch; the DJ will do all the other actual work related stuff. This is extremely common, and again he is honoured to be included. I did not include these details in my original post because they were not pertinent to the discussion. In my opinion, there is no difference between having someone do a reading at your ceremony (where you could instead PAY an officiant to do this) and having someone play acoustic guitar for a few songs (where you could also PAY to have this done by the DJ and played through speakers and not live); it's completely similar but somewhere some wedding gods have decided what is okay and what is not. We are not traditional and we were looking for some fun advice, not judgement. Rant over.

There's a huge difference between non-traditional and rude. You were asking about how to include close friends, and sharing some ways that you did it (by using them as free help). We're obviously going to point out where you're mistreating these "close friends". To answer your question...a reading is an honor, not a service (though you could certainly forgo a reading as well if you're uncomfortable with it)...MCing your reception is a service, not an honor.

A metaphor that's been used before on these boards: If you came in and said "I'm planning to rob a bank and need a getaway driver. Should I choose my friend who's a great driver, or my friend that I know will keep his mouth shut?", we're going to tell you not to rob a bank, even though that wasn't what you asked.

When you come on here and say "My husband and I are going to use his friends as free help. How can I use his third friend as free help?" we're going to tell you not to use your friends as free help. The only thing "yikes" here is how you treat those close to you.

artbyallie · May 2016

ILoveBeachMusic said:

artbyallie said:

thisismynickname said:

Same with playing ceremony music. That's a paid job, not an honor. If the guy volunteered, you can feel free to take him up on the offer, but please don't ask.

I was thinking this as well, at least if it's something the person does professionally (whether part-time/gig or full-time. Don't ask people to work at your wedding if you're not paying them.

I think this is relationship dependent. In our family, one of my SIL is a musician. As the wedding gift to several couples (myself & H 30+ years ago) she plays in the wedding.

Offering to do so as a gift =/= being asked to.

flantastic · May 2016

I was asked to sing one song for a friend's wedding a few years ago, one that she liked from when we had been in choir together. I was like, "okay, sure, I guess I could put in the extra work to practice it and meet up with the accompanist to go over it before the wedding," but an honor I would not have considered it. Turns out the accompanist had been told that I was the cantor for the ceremony, and asked what was in my wedding repertoire for preludes. I then learned four new songs for all that, essentially acting as the hired professional, just without getting paid. It was not great. Your friend may have said it was an honor, but really you just put a lot of work on him and you now don't have to pay someone else for it. Clever.

climbingsingle · May 2016

"We are not traditional" almost always translates to "we want to do rude things so please validate them for me. It's MY day."

glasgowtolondon · May 2016

climbingwife said:

"We are not traditional" almost always translates to "we want to do rude things so please validate them for me. It's MY day."

Yep, this. Everytime I hear this I roll my eyes so hard.

"We are not traditional!' Yet your traditional wedding parties, ceremony with acoustic songs and swapping rings, toasts given by friends and family, reception with dj and dancing seems to say otherwise. In fact the only things that seem to be untraditional are asking your friends to work your wedding. Good luck with your absolutely standard and traditional wedding.

Also, please tell us more about what this website is/isn't designed for. Truly facinating stuff.

debbeau · May 2016

When you post on an open board you are going to get opinions on the whole situation. Maybe someone would not know it was rude when they posted and be relieved that someone told them the truth. Your friends won't.

OliveOilsMom · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

Yikes. Just yikes...

Yup. The truth hurts sometimes, doesn't it? But aren't you better off getting this truth from internet strangers beforehand, than being rude to your friends and family? Weddings can strain relationships, I know, because I am no longer friends with a bride who was a nightmare. I'm not the only friend of hers that went their separate way from her too.

Bottom line: Regionally acceptable or not, don't treat your friends as vendors.

justsie · May 2016

What I find funny is another poster posted a story about her brothers being ushers and how much they hated it and talked down about it, how it wasn't a honor to them and how they felt "lower" than the wedding party (I believe that was the term used). But NOOOOOOO our family won't feel that way because special snowflakes fall where I am.

katsandtatts · May 2016

I appreciate the advice and am definitely considering it, I just don't like the uncalled for snark. Okay, I f***ed up by thinking it was okay to ask these things. Thank you to those who told relevant stories where they said yes to things like this but didn't actually want to, I will check with my guys because that was not my intention. As @debbeau said, you guys will tell the truth whereas friends won't. But you could tell the truth politely as opposed to calling people rude and implying their ideas are stupid and/or that they think they are better than everyone else on here (and I'm not just talking about this thread, I've seen it happen many times). Anyway, no sense crying over spilled milk and I clearly live in a la-la land.

My intention was never to receive work for free, my DJ could very easily provide the full MC duties as well as ceremony coverage (it's actually included in his package) but we were hoping for personalized touches. However, we would prefer to be a bit more generic in some ways than to have our friends having zero fun. I've been thinking these things over for a few days (even before I made my post) and I'm still undecided. I don't want my friends to feel as though we don't value our friendship by not including them, but I'd rather they feel that way they have them feel obligated to say yes to some job they don't want to do. Another option we have been considering over the past while is asking the one friend to be a groomsman (and then he can say no if he wants, or if he moves out of the province before the wedding and bails we can deal - its not too many changes). For the other two friends (who are very close) we were thinking about asking if they'd make a toast at the beginning of the reception to welcome everyone and then to kick off the rest of the toasts.

I'm clearly a glutton for punishment because I'm going to ask for your collective opinion again!! We want to do what is best for us and our friends, but like you have all said and I have acknowledged, they may not be completely honest with us. Does the potential plan above make more sense? Or would it be better to just not include them at all? If you were these guys, what would you think?

kahluakoala · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

I appreciate the advice and am definitely considering it, I just don't like the uncalled for snark. Okay, I f***ed up by thinking it was okay to ask these things. Thank you to those who told relevant stories where they said yes to things like this but didn't actually want to, I will check with my guys because that was not my intention. As @debbeau said, you guys will tell the truth whereas friends won't. But you could tell the truth politely as opposed to calling people rude and implying their ideas are stupid and/or that they think they are better than everyone else on here (and I'm not just talking about this thread, I've seen it happen many times). Anyway, no sense crying over spilled milk and I clearly live in a la-la land.

My intention was never to receive work for free, my DJ could very easily provide the full MC duties as well as ceremony coverage (it's actually included in his package) but we were hoping for personalized touches. However, we would prefer to be a bit more generic in some ways than to have our friends having zero fun. I've been thinking these things over for a few days (even before I made my post) and I'm still undecided. I don't want my friends to feel as though we don't value our friendship by not including them, but I'd rather they feel that way they have them feel obligated to say yes to some job they don't want to do. Another option we have been considering over the past while is asking the one friend to be a groomsman (and then he can say no if he wants, or if he moves out of the province before the wedding and bails we can deal - its not too many changes). For the other two friends (who are very close) we were thinking about asking if they'd make a toast at the beginning of the reception to welcome everyone and then to kick off the rest of the toasts.

I'm clearly a glutton for punishment because I'm going to ask for your collective opinion again!! We want to do what is best for us and our friends, but like you have all said and I have acknowledged, they may not be completely honest with us. Does the potential plan above make more sense? Or would it be better to just not include them at all? If you were these guys, what would you think?

@katsandtatts It kind of is TK way - to assume that everyone's trying to scam people to pay for their wedding, endure a horrendous gap, or force everyone to watch their sham of a marriage (or "PPD" as they call it, ugh). It's just something to kind of get through, because there is a lot of good advice here at the end of the day.

As far as your situation, when I was very young I went to a wedding for a close girlfriend. We had a very tight knit group of 8 girlfriends in college. Friend 1 asked 3 other girls from this group to be her BMs. Another friend is an aspiring professional singer and offered to sing her mass (not catholic, please don't yell at me if I explained that wrong), the remaining 3 of us had the honor of being guests. at first, one of the girls was upset, like, "Doesn't she want us to help with the wedding? I thought we were all getting jobs" - she would have been truly honored to be a guest book attendant or something. We explained to her that no, that would be lame, let's just party! People understand that not everyone is going ot be a BM/GM. Some people might not be upset about getting a "job" but lots will. In this story, 1/3 of the crew would have been "honored" to help, the other 2/3 of us would have been annoyed. I think this is one of those "wedding industry" narratives (jobs are an honor) that can really rub people the wrong way. The point of my story too, is that some people here the narrative and internalize it as guests.

So, I don't think it's your fault, but if I were you I'd say (or have your FI say) "Friend, I'm so happy you're coming to the wedding! Just want to let you know about the MC/guitar thing, if you don't want to do it, you really don't have to. You know you're an important friend to me, and I just wanted to find a way to include you in the wedding, but I've rethought it and realized that it may be more of a burden to you. Just so you know, if you'd rather just enjoy the party, I would completely understand". Something like that.

ShesSoCold · May 2016

katsandtatts said:

Thanks to those who gave opinions and advice based on my actual query. However, to those who gave unsolicited advice about decisions we have already made please remember that I did not ask for help on that topic. You can call me rude all you want but this website it not designed for you to come on here and judge people beyond an anonymous name. Our one friend is happy to play a couple songs for our wedding and considers it an honour to have been asked. Our other friend that will be doing some of the MCing will literally only be introducing the speeches and giving a small speech himself so we have a personal touch; the DJ will do all the other actual work related stuff. This is extremely common, and again he is honoured to be included. I did not include these details in my original post because they were not pertinent to the discussion. In my opinion, there is no difference between having someone do a reading at your ceremony (where you could instead PAY an officiant to do this) and having someone play acoustic guitar for a few songs (where you could also PAY to have this done by the DJ and played through speakers and not live); it's completely similar but somewhere some wedding gods have decided what is okay and what is not. We are not traditional and we were looking for some fun advice, not judgement. Rant over.

Um, I'm pretty sure the bolded is the entire purpose of the entire internet.

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