Week 2 of Trump

mrsconn23 · January 2017

The most recent cracked.com podcast is pretty good and ties in to the world situation (especially on an emotional level) today without really talking about politics (for the most part). Also, if you need to fill 2 hours...there you go.

https://soundcloud.com/crackedpod

knottiej · January 2017

Do we need a Week 2, Day 2 of Trump?

Last night he also appointed a new acting director for ICE:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/01/30/trump-appoints-new-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-director-noted-for-his-work-deporting-illegal-immigrants/?utm_term=.e390314a7e7f

cowgirl8238 · January 2017

levioosa said:

I think what frightens me most is that a huge portion of the population is missing the parallels between other historic dictators and their rise to power with what Trump is doing. I even know people (like my aunt) who are super excited about everything he's doing. I don't understand. How can you be an intelligent person and think these are good things for our country? And did you not study government at all in school? Read the Constitution? Or maybe think about anyone other than yourself? There's a girl in my class who I absolutely hate (for many reasons), and she keeps saying that she's so glad he won because her guns are safe. That's it. That was her reason for voting for him. I cannot with her.

I have a friend like this. A friend that has a pre-existing medical condition that prevented her from getting health insurance until the ACA was enacted. A friend that has benefited from planned parenthood and other government programs. A friend that has an FHA loan and faces the problem with how to afford everything...I don't want to defriend someone over these differences, but it is becoming more and more difficult to hold a conversation anymore with someone who so blindly supports everything this person does without seeing the DIRECT effect on herself...yet I'm the idiot because I thought that Bernie Sanders was a better candidate.*

*Note: Out of everyone he was the most aligned with my beliefs, however I did not fully support all of his ideas either...

Ro041 · January 2017

Re Yates:

Remember that time in 2015 during her confirmation hearing when Sessions grilled her about whether she would stand up to the president if she thought he was acting in an unconstitutional manner? Because that ish happened.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/from-march-2015-sessions-asks-fired-acting-ag-if-she-d-say-no-to-president-866483267762

short+sassy · January 2017

cowgirl8238 said:

levioosa said:

I think what frightens me most is that a huge portion of the population is missing the parallels between other historic dictators and their rise to power with what Trump is doing. I even know people (like my aunt) who are super excited about everything he's doing. I don't understand. How can you be an intelligent person and think these are good things for our country? And did you not study government at all in school? Read the Constitution? Or maybe think about anyone other than yourself? There's a girl in my class who I absolutely hate (for many reasons), and she keeps saying that she's so glad he won because her guns are safe. That's it. That was her reason for voting for him. I cannot with her.

I have a friend like this. A friend that has a pre-existing medical condition that prevented her from getting health insurance until the ACA was enacted. A friend that has benefited from planned parenthood and other government programs. A friend that has an FHA loan and faces the problem with how to afford everything...I don't want to defriend someone over these differences, but it is becoming more and more difficult to hold a conversation anymore with someone who so blindly supports everything this person does without seeing the DIRECT effect on herself...yet I'm the idiot because I thought that Bernie Sanders was a better candidate.*
*Note: Out of everyone he was the most aligned with my beliefs, however I did not fully support all of his ideas either...

I know, right? Because you know how nobody can buy handguns or rifles when we have a Democratic President. And all guns are banned, no grandfathering, so the police come into our homes and take our guns that we already legally purchased. (all the sarcasm)

I also find it confusing that I usually think of Republicans as tending to have a more "less government" stance. Yet Trump is the least "less government" President I have ever seen.

@cowgirl8238, I liked Bernie Sanders also. Some of his ideas were too liberal for my taste...which is saying a lot, lol...but he struck me as someone thinking of the next generation. Not the next election. Not himself or his approval ratings. Although one could argue if various policies he wanted to do were best for the American people, I don't think many would argue that HE at least thought they were best for the American people. Sadly, there are a lot of politicians I don't get that sense from at all.

I was just telling my H the other day, in a comparison to Trump, "Geez, at least George W. Bush, PRETENDED to care about the American people (as long as they weren't Katrina flood victims)." I despised GWB. I'm really alarmed that Trump is so bad I'm actually nostalgic for GWB, lol.

Heffalump · January 2017

cowgirl8238 said:

levioosa said:

I think what frightens me most is that a huge portion of the population is missing the parallels between other historic dictators and their rise to power with what Trump is doing. I even know people (like my aunt) who are super excited about everything he's doing. I don't understand. How can you be an intelligent person and think these are good things for our country? And did you not study government at all in school? Read the Constitution? Or maybe think about anyone other than yourself? There's a girl in my class who I absolutely hate (for many reasons), and she keeps saying that she's so glad he won because her guns are safe. That's it. That was her reason for voting for him. I cannot with her.

I have a friend like this. A friend that has a pre-existing medical condition that prevented her from getting health insurance until the ACA was enacted. A friend that has benefited from planned parenthood and other government programs. A friend that has an FHA loan and faces the problem with how to afford everything...I don't want to defriend someone over these differences, but it is becoming more and more difficult to hold a conversation anymore with someone who so blindly supports everything this person does without seeing the DIRECT effect on herself...yet I'm the idiot because I thought that Bernie Sanders was a better candidate.*
*Note: Out of everyone he was the most aligned with my beliefs, however I did not fully support all of his ideas either...

I'm trying to find it now, but a week or so ago, I saw an article on Twitter about why people vote "against their own interests." The TLDR was basically that they vote their beliefs, not necessarily what will benefit them the most personally. I want to say it was shared by either David Farenthold or Sam Sanders, but not having any luck with either, and could easily have been someone else.

kimmiinthemitten · January 2017

I have a good friend who voted for Trump and is hurt she has lost friends over it. She is currently unemployed after a mental breakdown and her husband is on disability, and I know he receives healthcare through medicare.

It's hard, really really hard. I just keep telling myself that I voted in her best interests even if she didn't. I have a bunch of family members who get all angry about "entitlement" programs. My family is low income, blue collar workers - my mom, two of her sisters and her brother are on disability, I have two veteran cousins, my sister works for the VA, my dad is a retired USPS worker, and my other uncles are union members. I just want to stand up and yell "We are the people entitlements are created for!!"

I have been thinking a lot about Trump lately, and think I need to find some old Apprentice episodes to test my theory. But I used to watch that show, and if he had a 75 word vocabulary back then, I would have stopped watching the show. Which leads me to believe he didn't, and this dumbed down version of his is a creation for the office. So in that I agree with @charlotte989875, we can't blame Bannon. Trump went to Wharton, he knows full well what he's doing. He just became really good at playing someone who acts like he doesn't.

charlotte989875 · January 2017

I have a hard time with the "people vote against their own interest argument" because it assumes that what people care most about, or base their vote on is that particular interest, when we know that's not true. Voters have preferences about many different issues and one candidate can't possibly represent all of them; so they satisfice and look at what are the things they care most strongly about and vote for the candidate that is closest too those things.

So for example say Person X is out of work, on Medicare, and receiving unemployment benefits. Logically we would think they would vote for the candidate that is proposing keeping those benefits. Not necessarily the case. They might vote for the candidate that is promising to bring back manufacturing jobs, or promising to shut out immigrants that are taking their jobs, who are the reasons they are out of work. Even if that candidate is proposing to cut the programs they are benefitting from.

kimmiinthemitten · January 2017

charlotte989875 said:

I have a hard time with the "people vote against their own interest argument" because it assumes that what people care most about, or base their vote on is that particular interest, when we know that's not true. Voters have preferences about many different issues and one candidate can't possibly represent all of them; so they satisfice and look at what are the things they care most strongly about and vote for the candidate that is closest too those things.

So for example say Person X is out of work, on Medicare, and receiving unemployment benefits. Logically we would think they would vote for the candidate that is proposing keeping those benefits. Not necessarily the case. They might vote for the candidate that is promising to bring back manufacturing jobs, or promising to shut out immigrants that are taking their jobs, who are the reasons they are out of work. Even if that candidate is proposing to cut the programs they are benefitting from.

I don't disagree with this. I know people are allowed to prioritize their own values and vote based on that list and that may differ what I see and believe.

If I voted based on my best interests, I would be a Republican. I have a good job, we can afford the loss in pay my teacher Husband endures, I'm one of the rare people who experienced upward mobility from the lower class, I have great employer provided insurance, and I will likely have a record sales year thanks to the vote of confidence manufacturers are giving a Trump economy. So most people who only superficially know me probably think I don't vote in my best interests either:).

But the people I am speaking about are people I know well enough to know exactly how this can impact their livelihoods. And they're people I have had these conversations with. Most, if not all of them, are people who don't really believe he will slash [insert program that benefits them] and voted for the other things.

My friend who is unemployed votes based on what's best for small businesses (because she still believes her husband will open one one day - he won't). She also votes for anti-choice candidates.

My uncles and cousins like his plans to overturn NAFTA and and the strong words he uses to describe the military.

Hell, I have a Muslim friend who was bragging about the election of Trump after swearing he would never implement a Muslim ban. He's now trying to find out if it will be expanded to include Qatar before his fathers next trip scheduled trip home.

charlotte989875 · January 2017

kimmiinthemitten said:

charlotte989875 said:

I have a hard time with the "people vote against their own interest argument" because it assumes that what people care most about, or base their vote on is that particular interest, when we know that's not true. Voters have preferences about many different issues and one candidate can't possibly represent all of them; so they satisfice and look at what are the things they care most strongly about and vote for the candidate that is closest too those things.

So for example say Person X is out of work, on Medicare, and receiving unemployment benefits. Logically we would think they would vote for the candidate that is proposing keeping those benefits. Not necessarily the case. They might vote for the candidate that is promising to bring back manufacturing jobs, or promising to shut out immigrants that are taking their jobs, who are the reasons they are out of work. Even if that candidate is proposing to cut the programs they are benefitting from.

I don't disagree with this. I know people are allowed to prioritize their own values and vote based on that list and that may differ what I see and believe.

If I voted based on my best interests, I would be a Republican. I have a good job, we can afford the loss in pay my teacher Husband endures, I'm one of the rare people who experienced upward mobility from the lower class, I have great employer provided insurance, and I will likely have a record sales year thanks to the vote of confidence manufacturers are giving a Trump economy. So most people who only superficially know me probably think I don't vote in my best interests either:).

But the people I am speaking about are people I know well enough to know exactly how this can impact their livelihoods. And they're people I have had these conversations with. Most, if not all of them, are people who don't really believe he will slash [insert program that benefits them] and voted for the other things.

My friend who is unemployed votes based on what's best for small businesses (because she still believes her husband will open one one day - he won't). She also votes for anti-choice candidates.

My uncles and cousins like his plans to overturn NAFTA and and the strong words he uses to describe the military.

Hell, I have a Muslim friend who was bragging about the election of Trump after swearing he would never implement a Muslim ban. He's now trying to find out if it will be expanded to include Qatar before his fathers next trip scheduled trip home.

I definitely agree with all of this. I often see the "they voted against their own interests" used to say how stupid, uninformed, unintelligent some voters are. Not here, by any means, but I think it gets use as an excuse for not trying to understand why people voted/acted the way they did.

I think your example of your friend who votes for small business because she believes her husband will open one someday, is so characteristic of a lot of the reasons we see middle or lower classes voting for tax cuts for the wealthy (or repealing estate taxes, repealing capital gains, etc.); not because they believe in trickle down, but because they believe they someday will be wealthy and want those rules to apply to them. Even though the possibility is extremely low.

I guess my frustration is more at the wording of these arguments than the substance. It may appear they are voting against their current interests, but only if we define that narrowly and excluding beliefs about future interests, or preferences on other issues.

cowgirl8238 · January 2017

@charlotte989875,

I can understand that line of thinking, and I know that I have personally been in that situation where I liked some of the policies and promises of each candidate. I think what frustrated me the most with my friend is how she has been quick to talk down about anyone who didn't vote for Trump and how everything he is doing is "not a big deal" and how she is in that "Your side lost get over it" camp...it wears thin and has been putting a bit of strain on our relationship. There are only so many bean dip recipes!

This year I read about the issues and decided that Trump did not represent me or my views on most subjects. I also would have had a hard time voting for someone who was so openly making inappropriate comments about various groups of people...so I decided that Trump just wasn't my guy. None of them were people I wanted to see become POTUS honestly, but that's what happens, it is impossible to make everyone happy. I agree that people have a right to vote for whomever they want, but I have a hard time with people who will refuse facts and just try to argue to death a singular point (In this case gun control) without at least acknowledging there are other issues of concern.

@short+sassy

I was so sad when Bernie lost the primaries...to me the whole election felt like a lost cause once he was out of the race. I know there were other third party candidates but they just didn't cut it. To me Bernie felt like a hope of the future and like someone who might have gotten congress to come together and write some bipartisan laws that actually made sense. With Hillary I felt like we would have stagnated for 4 years. But Trump was the one that always scared me in the sense that he would be a loose cannon...and under 2 weeks in and I am seeing those fears come before me. Sure I am not too effected by this (yet), but I know friends and neighbors that are!

southernbelle0915 · January 2017

Heffalump said:

cowgirl8238 said:

levioosa said:

I think what frightens me most is that a huge portion of the population is missing the parallels between other historic dictators and their rise to power with what Trump is doing. I even know people (like my aunt) who are super excited about everything he's doing. I don't understand. How can you be an intelligent person and think these are good things for our country? And did you not study government at all in school? Read the Constitution? Or maybe think about anyone other than yourself? There's a girl in my class who I absolutely hate (for many reasons), and she keeps saying that she's so glad he won because her guns are safe. That's it. That was her reason for voting for him. I cannot with her.

I have a friend like this. A friend that has a pre-existing medical condition that prevented her from getting health insurance until the ACA was enacted. A friend that has benefited from planned parenthood and other government programs. A friend that has an FHA loan and faces the problem with how to afford everything...I don't want to defriend someone over these differences, but it is becoming more and more difficult to hold a conversation anymore with someone who so blindly supports everything this person does without seeing the DIRECT effect on herself...yet I'm the idiot because I thought that Bernie Sanders was a better candidate.*
*Note: Out of everyone he was the most aligned with my beliefs, however I did not fully support all of his ideas either...

I'm trying to find it now, but a week or so ago, I saw an article on Twitter about why people vote "against their own interests." The TLDR was basically that they vote their beliefs, not necessarily what will benefit them the most personally. I want to say it was shared by either David Farenthold or Sam Sanders, but not having any luck with either, and could easily have been someone else.

Ok on this note but taking it to Level 800 creepy, check out this article:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/big-data-cambridge-analytica-brexit-trump

This is the future of things, I get that. But holy shit. Notice how the data they're using is for sale in the US, but not other countries.

southernbelle0915 · January 2017

Also, this is a SUPER important read right now, IMHO. All this feather ruffling may be a smoke screen to something else.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/01/31/americans-can-turn-tables-steve-bannons-shock-event

sparklepants41 · January 2017

southernbelle0915 said:

Heffalump said:

cowgirl8238 said:

levioosa said:

I think what frightens me most is that a huge portion of the population is missing the parallels between other historic dictators and their rise to power with what Trump is doing. I even know people (like my aunt) who are super excited about everything he's doing. I don't understand. How can you be an intelligent person and think these are good things for our country? And did you not study government at all in school? Read the Constitution? Or maybe think about anyone other than yourself? There's a girl in my class who I absolutely hate (for many reasons), and she keeps saying that she's so glad he won because her guns are safe. That's it. That was her reason for voting for him. I cannot with her.

I have a friend like this. A friend that has a pre-existing medical condition that prevented her from getting health insurance until the ACA was enacted. A friend that has benefited from planned parenthood and other government programs. A friend that has an FHA loan and faces the problem with how to afford everything...I don't want to defriend someone over these differences, but it is becoming more and more difficult to hold a conversation anymore with someone who so blindly supports everything this person does without seeing the DIRECT effect on herself...yet I'm the idiot because I thought that Bernie Sanders was a better candidate.*
*Note: Out of everyone he was the most aligned with my beliefs, however I did not fully support all of his ideas either...

I'm trying to find it now, but a week or so ago, I saw an article on Twitter about why people vote "against their own interests." The TLDR was basically that they vote their beliefs, not necessarily what will benefit them the most personally. I want to say it was shared by either David Farenthold or Sam Sanders, but not having any luck with either, and could easily have been someone else.

Ok on this note but taking it to Level 800 creepy, check out this article:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/big-data-cambridge-analytica-brexit-trump

This is the future of things, I get that. But holy shit. Notice how the data they're using is for sale in the US, but not other countries.

JFC.

cowgirl8238 · January 2017

southernbelle0915 said:

Ok on this note but taking it to Level 800 creepy, check out this article:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/big-data-cambridge-analytica-brexit-trump

This is the future of things, I get that. But holy shit. Notice how the data they're using is for sale in the US, but not other countries.

I was just watching something (I want to say it was "Adam ruins everything") that went into this...just a quick snip-it that should give you the chills.

"In 2012, Kosinski proved that on the basis of an average of 68 Facebook “likes” by a user, it was possible to predict their skin color (with 95 percent accuracy), their sexual orientation (88 percent accuracy), and their affiliation to the Democratic or Republican party (85 percent). But it didn’t stop there. Intelligence, religious affiliation, as well as alcohol, cigarette and drug use, could all be determined. From the data it was even possible to deduce whether someone's parents were divorced. "

Also, EEEWWWWWW you were right, level 800 creepy when you get down into it!!!

levioosa · January 2017

This article sums up how I am feeling and why I am so scared.

https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5#.3kjqa9bj0

I feel like all of these EOs are just smokescreens to throw us off track. The real shit is happening in a more insidious way. Not a super secretive way, but it's on the back burner enough that I'm afraid people are getting caught up in the EOs and failing to fight against the not-so-gradual change in the checks and balances. Because at it's heart, I think that's what the Bannon/Trump administration is doing. All of these heart-breaking, demoralizing EOs are just distraction techniques.

charlotte989875 · January 2017

levioosa said:

This article sums up how I am feeling and why I am so scared.

https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5#.3kjqa9bj0

I feel like all of these EOs are just smokescreens to throw us off track. The real shit is happening in a more insidious way. Not a super secretive way, but it's on the back burner enough that I'm afraid people are getting caught up in the EOs and failing to fight against the not-so-gradual change in the checks and balances. Because at it's heart, I think that's what the Bannon/Trump administration is doing. All of these heart-breaking, demoralizing EOs are just distraction techniques.

Distraction techniques with monstrous consequences for thousands of people.

levioosa · January 2017

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

This article sums up how I am feeling and why I am so scared.

https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5#.3kjqa9bj0

I feel like all of these EOs are just smokescreens to throw us off track. The real shit is happening in a more insidious way. Not a super secretive way, but it's on the back burner enough that I'm afraid people are getting caught up in the EOs and failing to fight against the not-so-gradual change in the checks and balances. Because at it's heart, I think that's what the Bannon/Trump administration is doing. All of these heart-breaking, demoralizing EOs are just distraction techniques.

Distraction techniques with monstrous consequences for thousands of people.

Oh, of course, I'm not arguing against that. Each EO has made me so, so angry and upset, and I've been fighting them, I'm just afraid that people won't fight the more behind the scenes crap too, and that's the shit that is going to bring us down in flames. I am furious and sick with pretty much everything right now. None of this is normal. None of this is okay.

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

charlotte989875 · January 2017

levioosa said:

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

This article sums up how I am feeling and why I am so scared.

https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5#.3kjqa9bj0

I feel like all of these EOs are just smokescreens to throw us off track. The real shit is happening in a more insidious way. Not a super secretive way, but it's on the back burner enough that I'm afraid people are getting caught up in the EOs and failing to fight against the not-so-gradual change in the checks and balances. Because at it's heart, I think that's what the Bannon/Trump administration is doing. All of these heart-breaking, demoralizing EOs are just distraction techniques.

Distraction techniques with monstrous consequences for thousands of people.

Oh, of course, I'm not arguing against that. Each EO has made me so, so angry and upset, and I've been fighting them, I'm just afraid that people won't fight the more behind the scenes crap too, and that's the shit that is going to bring us down in flames. I am furious and sick with pretty much everything right now. None of this is normal. None of this is okay.

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

This is what scares me too. And I'm usually pretty even-keeled with government crazy. I worry people are going to be so fed up, tired, demoralized that they'll just like "well eff it, we're all screwed".

I have no idea how the committee let her out for a full vote. Seriously?!

kimmiinthemitten · January 2017

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

I have no idea how the committee let her out for a full vote. Seriously?!

Image: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-K0sbEIsiHjk/ULZmEjE19aI/AAAAAAAABB0/IR3HGYDHG3o/s1600/EVERYTHINGS_FOR_SALE_large.jpg

But seriously, we watched the hearing. Collins and Murkowski voter her forward but said that did not mean they would vote to confirm her on the floor, so there's still hope.

The bittersweet part about Michigan is that our Senators have already committed a no vote, but that means we have little we can do to effect change and we're the ones already hurting from her policies.

Soooo I implore all of you- especially the ones of you in states with Republican Senators to call and encourage them to vote no for her confirmation (if you agree with me).

Under Devos' influence in Michigan:
-80% of charter schools are for-profit (compared to 13% nationwide)
-For profit schools don't have to accept all students
-They don't have to disclose where their money comes from
-They can close up shop at any time. A charter in Detroit closed without notice two weeks before Christmas!
-We have the highest closure rate of charter schools because of this. Some Detroit kids attend up to 25 schools before they graduate because so many schools have opened and closed.
-The vast majority of charter schools perform the same or worse than their public school counterparts. The only ones routinely performing better are the ones you have to apply to attend.

Edited to trim the quote tree.

TrixieJess · January 2017

kimmiinthemitten said:

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

I have no idea how the committee let her out for a full vote. Seriously?!

But seriously, we watched the hearing. Collins and Murkowski voter her forward but said that did not mean they would vote to confirm her on the floor, so there's still hope.

The bittersweet part about Michigan is that our Senators have already committed a no vote, but that means we have little we can do to effect change and we're the ones already hurting from her policies.

Soooo I implore all of you- especially the ones of you in states with Republican Senators to call and encourage them to vote no for her confirmation (if you agree with me).

Under Devos' influence in Michigan:
-80% of charter schools are for-profit (compared to 13% nationwide)
-For profit schools don't have to accept all students
-They don't have to disclose where their money comes from
-They can close up shop at any time. A charter in Detroit closed without notice two weeks before Christmas!
-We have the highest closure rate of charter schools because of this. Some Detroit kids attend up to 25 schools before they graduate because so many schools have opened and closed.
-The vast majority of charter schools perform the same or worse than their public school counterparts. The only ones routinely performing better are the ones you have to apply to attend.

Edited to trim the quote tree.

Slightly ignorant Canadian here, could you give me the Cliff's notes version of what exactly "Charter Schools" are? I cannot seem to find any comprehensive information regarding them.

kimmiinthemitten · January 2017

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

I have no idea how the committee let her out for a full vote. Seriously?!

But seriously, we watched the hearing. Collins and Murkowski voter her forward but said that did not mean they would vote to confirm her on the floor, so there's still hope.

The bittersweet part about Michigan is that our Senators have already committed a no vote, but that means we have little we can do to effect change and we're the ones already hurting from her policies.

Soooo I implore all of you- especially the ones of you in states with Republican Senators to call and encourage them to vote no for her confirmation (if you agree with me).

Under Devos' influence in Michigan:
-80% of charter schools are for-profit (compared to 13% nationwide)
-For profit schools don't have to accept all students
-They don't have to disclose where their money comes from
-They can close up shop at any time. A charter in Detroit closed without notice two weeks before Christmas!
-We have the highest closure rate of charter schools because of this. Some Detroit kids attend up to 25 schools before they graduate because so many schools have opened and closed.
-The vast majority of charter schools perform the same or worse than their public school counterparts. The only ones routinely performing better are the ones you have to apply to attend.

Edited to trim the quote tree.

Slightly ignorant Canadian here, could you give me the Cliff's notes version of what exactly "Charter Schools" are? I cannot seem to find any comprehensive information regarding them.

It's a publicly funded school that is independent of the public school district.

All of them receive per pupil tax money under our school of choice rules.

The problem is they're not held to the same standards/laws as public schools.

For example, they can impose admission standards, they are not liable to IDEA (disability) laws, and can be for-profit.

In Michigan, they're held to the same testing standards and days of instruction standards, but that's it. You don't even have to have a teaching degree to teach in some of them.

*Barbie* · January 2017

Charter schools are publicly funded, but do not have to comply to the same set of standards, leadership, etc. as the local public school system. For people that are not in a "good" public school system, they may think that a charter school is a better option. Some charter schools are very good, some are more specialized to emphasize things like STEM, some are incredibly corrupt - especially those "for profit". It's essentially a public school run like a private school.

charlotte989875 · January 2017

kimmiinthemitten said:

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

I have no idea how the committee let her out for a full vote. Seriously?!

But seriously, we watched the hearing. Collins and Murkowski voter her forward but said that did not mean they would vote to confirm her on the floor, so there's still hope.

The bittersweet part about Michigan is that our Senators have already committed a no vote, but that means we have little we can do to effect change and we're the ones already hurting from her policies.

Soooo I implore all of you- especially the ones of you in states with Republican Senators to call and encourage them to vote no for her confirmation (if you agree with me).

Under Devos' influence in Michigan:
-80% of charter schools are for-profit (compared to 13% nationwide)
-For profit schools don't have to accept all students
-They don't have to disclose where their money comes from
-They can close up shop at any time. A charter in Detroit closed without notice two weeks before Christmas!
-We have the highest closure rate of charter schools because of this. Some Detroit kids attend up to 25 schools before they graduate because so many schools have opened and closed.
-The vast majority of charter schools perform the same or worse than their public school counterparts. The only ones routinely performing better are the ones you have to apply to attend.

Edited to trim the quote tree.

Slightly ignorant Canadian here, could you give me the Cliff's notes version of what exactly "Charter Schools" are? I cannot seem to find any comprehensive information regarding them.

It's a publicly funded school that is independent of the public school district.

All of them receive per pupil tax money under our school of choice rules.

The problem is they're not held to the same standards/laws as public schools.

For example, they can impose admission standards, they are not liable to IDEA (disability) laws, and can be for-profit.

In Michigan, they're held to the same testing standards and days of instruction standards, but that's it. You don't even have to have a teaching degree to teach in some of them.

Just to add too each state has different laws/standards governing Charters. Some are great, some are terrible, and there is often little consistency within states.

kimmiinthemitten · January 2017

charlotte989875 said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

charlotte989875 said:

levioosa said:

It looks like Betsey Vos is going to be approved. WTF.

I have no idea how the committee let her out for a full vote. Seriously?!

But seriously, we watched the hearing. Collins and Murkowski voter her forward but said that did not mean they would vote to confirm her on the floor, so there's still hope.

The bittersweet part about Michigan is that our Senators have already committed a no vote, but that means we have little we can do to effect change and we're the ones already hurting from her policies.

Soooo I implore all of you- especially the ones of you in states with Republican Senators to call and encourage them to vote no for her confirmation (if you agree with me).

Under Devos' influence in Michigan:
-80% of charter schools are for-profit (compared to 13% nationwide)
-For profit schools don't have to accept all students
-They don't have to disclose where their money comes from
-They can close up shop at any time. A charter in Detroit closed without notice two weeks before Christmas!
-We have the highest closure rate of charter schools because of this. Some Detroit kids attend up to 25 schools before they graduate because so many schools have opened and closed.
-The vast majority of charter schools perform the same or worse than their public school counterparts. The only ones routinely performing better are the ones you have to apply to attend.

Edited to trim the quote tree.

Slightly ignorant Canadian here, could you give me the Cliff's notes version of what exactly "Charter Schools" are? I cannot seem to find any comprehensive information regarding them.

It's a publicly funded school that is independent of the public school district.

All of them receive per pupil tax money under our school of choice rules.

The problem is they're not held to the same standards/laws as public schools.

For example, they can impose admission standards, they are not liable to IDEA (disability) laws, and can be for-profit.

In Michigan, they're held to the same testing standards and days of instruction standards, but that's it. You don't even have to have a teaching degree to teach in some of them.

Just to add too each state has different laws/standards governing Charters. Some are great, some are terrible, and there is often little consistency within states.

^All of this. I just highlighted the flaws of Michigan's laws since that is where she has had the most influence.

This website does a good job of comparing charter schools (although not perfect because I have friends that are not Michigan certified teachers in charter schools):

http://www.ecs.org/charter-school-policies/

TrixieJess · January 2017

Oy, we have specialized programs within our schools, and school systems but if they are public (or Catholic which are publicly funded) they have to adhere to curriculum.

*Barbie* · January 2017

I'm interested to see where the H1B discussion lands. At least one of DK's employees is here on that visa and it's up for renewal sometime this year. He was supposed to leave to get his renewal in a couple of weeks, but was talking about postponing his trip because of the current EO/subsequent issues/delays, etc. and being afraid that he'd be delayed in coming back due to administrative load. He's been working in the states for quite a while, and had already talked to DK about getting citizenship (he'd need the company to sponsor him) - but since he's only been there a little while, they told him he'd need to wait.

DK thinks he's a good employee, so it would be a pain to have to replace him if the visa becomes an issue.

short+sassy · February 2017

*Barbie* said:

Charter schools are publicly funded, but do not have to comply to the same set of standards, leadership, etc. as the local public school system. For people that are not in a "good" public school system, they may think that a charter school is a better option. Some charter schools are very good, some are more specialized to emphasize things like STEM, some are incredibly corrupt - especially those "for profit". It's essentially a public school run like a private school.

In my area, charter schools have been a God send. NOLA historically has some of the worst public education in the country. Instead of saving for college, parents here scrimp and save to send their kids to private schools. It's really sad. However, the charter schools are excellent. Though it is my understanding students have to test in, to get into them (ie gifted students). It's obviously not a perfect solution. ALL kids should have a great education. But, if it wasn't for the charter schools (at least in my area), no one going to public school would.

I'm sorry to read on some of these posts that it's a bad deal elsewhere.

GBCK · February 2017

well, NOLA also had the complications of a nearly-all-charter school setup...and the lawsuit that changed the NOLA charter schools' admissions.

They now get differently assigned via computer because the charter schools were conveniently always 'full' or 'unable to help' when a student with special needs was looking for admittance.

WHich is one of the problems with 'school of choice' where I live. Somehow, "White hills" never has openings while the school that I won't send my kid to on a dare always has openings.
(the 'bad' school? we did an experiment when I worked sci. outreach. we discovered that you could say the name of a school in the room w/ experienced educators and that was one of the ONLY school names that immediately made pupils dilate. Yeah. It was that bad)

Heffalump · February 2017

Charters have been a mixed bag here. We have the #3 rated elementary charter school in the nation, and several that teetered on the edge of failure and then abruptly shut down.

I will say that I think a lot of their success or failure has to do with the students they accept. One of the articles notes that "Both schools [that closed] have history of low test scores, but serve kids who do poorly elsewhere, too." Meanwhile, the one above that is doing so well has very stringent admissions requirements, including:

Children who score at least three standard deviations above the mean on an IQ test are automatically eligible for our admissions lottery. Our School Based Admissions Team evaluates the applications of students who score between two and three standard deviations (SD) above the mean for possible admission. Every applicant between two and three SD, including siblings and children of staff and Board members, are reviewed.

For those not up on their IQ stats:

0.13% of the population is more than three standard deviations above the mean (IQ 145-160). Thus, 13 out of 10,000 individuals score above 145 and are considered profoundly gifted. 2.14% is between the second and third standard deviation above the mean (IQ 130-145). (http://presskit.ditd.org/Davidson_Institute_Press_Kit/ditd_IQ_and_Educational_Needs.html)

So basically, those kids are likely to succeed regardless of their school. I think teachers and schools play a big role, but I also think it's hard to compare when you start from very different places.

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