Wedding Etiquette Forum

Appropriate wording to list hosted drinks

2

Re: Appropriate wording to list hosted drinks

  • Actually, your wedding wasn't fully hosted. It already happened. Regarding your AHR, I'm curious as to how this will work in a bar during regular business hours. Do you have a private room for your guests? How will you know whom you will be serving?
    I'm on mobile so I'm not able to bold/highlight/whatever. But to your first sentence - I don't have the time to rehash all this stupidity for the thousandth time or dignify your comment with a response bc it's completely unrelated to our AHR. As for the AHR - yes, our party will be held in several private areas within the venue. We know everyone we've invited so any wandering randos will be pretty easy to spot. And our bartender is a good friend so wandering randos will be sent back to the main bar for service. Or he can pour their drink, charge them then send the rando on his/her way. Whatever's clever.
    I would then ask your bartender friend to only make available in your private area the drinks which you are hosting.
    The bar isn't going to want to do that. And neither are we. We're offering what we're offering. If someone wants something different there's no reason to prohibit it. It's more of an inconvenience for our guests to then go start a tab at the main bar and have to go in and out to refill. If they want free drinks they can drink what's offered. If they don't they can start a tab. We're covered from a hosting perspective. We would never be offended if someone wants something we're not hosting and is willing to pay for it. That's a silly thing for us to ever be offended by.
    I seriously don't know why you ask for advice here. I realize YOU aren't offended by this approach, but it's NOT about you. Etiquette wise, you should only have available the drinks which you are hosting. It would be more appropriate to have your private area and only serve the drinks you are covering. Your guests should not have to open their wallets at your hosted event. Period.
    That's the thing. They don't *have* to do any such thing. If they choose to buy their own beverage TK wisdom would say THEY are the ones being rude. But since I won't feel slighted and Mr. E doesn't care, all parties to the plan are in the clear.
    It's not rude for your guests to purchase a drink. It IS rude for you to have a bar available to your guests where you are only covering a portion of the beverages. And let me say this again. ... it does not matter if you feel slighted. As soon as you invite guests to celebrate with you, it ceases to be about you. And PLEASE point out where you claim that "TK wisdom" would deem it rude for your guests to purchase a drink other that the ones you are providing.
    You have been here long enough to know it NEVER ceases to be about her. 
  • MobKaz said:



    Actually, your wedding wasn't fully hosted. It already happened.

    Regarding your AHR, I'm curious as to how this will work in a bar during regular business hours. Do you have a private room for your guests? How will you know whom you will be serving?

    I'm on mobile so I'm not able to bold/highlight/whatever.

    But to your first sentence - I don't have the time to rehash all this stupidity for the thousandth time or dignify your comment with a response bc it's completely unrelated to our AHR.

    As for the AHR - yes, our party will be held in several private areas within the venue. We know everyone we've invited so any wandering randos will be pretty easy to spot. And our bartender is a good friend so wandering randos will be sent back to the main bar for service. Or he can pour their drink, charge them then send the rando on his/her way. Whatever's clever.
    I would then ask your bartender friend to only make available in your private area the drinks which you are hosting.
    The bar isn't going to want to do that. And neither are we. We're offering what we're offering. If someone wants something different there's no reason to prohibit it. It's more of an inconvenience for our guests to then go start a tab at the main bar and have to go in and out to refill.

    If they want free drinks they can drink what's offered. If they don't they can start a tab.

    We're covered from a hosting perspective. We would never be offended if someone wants something we're not hosting and is willing to pay for it. That's a silly thing for us to ever be offended by.
    I seriously don't know why you ask for advice here. I realize YOU aren't offended by this approach, but it's NOT about you. Etiquette wise, you should only have available the drinks which you are hosting. It would be more appropriate to have your private area and only serve the drinks you are covering.

    Your guests should not have to open their wallets at your hosted event. Period.
    That's the thing. They don't *have* to do any such thing. If they choose to buy their own beverage TK wisdom would say THEY are the ones being rude.

    But since I won't feel slighted and Mr. E doesn't care, all parties to the plan are in the clear.
    It's not rude for your guests to purchase a drink. It IS rude for you to have a bar available to your guests where you are only covering a portion of the beverages.

    And let me say this again. ... it does not matter if you feel slighted. As soon as you invite guests to celebrate with you, it ceases to be about you.

    And PLEASE point out where you claim that "TK wisdom" would deem it rude for your guests to purchase a drink other that the ones you are providing.

    You have been here long enough to know it NEVER ceases to be about her. 





    I wish I could quote the MANY TIMES posters have declared it rude on the part of the guest who seeks out their preferred beverage elsewhere rather than just drinking what's being offered. I'd say 98% of those discussions were deleted from the cash bar thread. But they were there, with plenty of agreement on the part of other posters.

    I mean, on its face, it does seem kind of rude on the guest's part, doesn't it? Most people wouldn't accept an invitation to their friend's house for dinner then run out to Mickey D's because they'd prefer a a burger over what was being served - that would be a slap in the face to the host(ess). In fact, we were brought up to not even ASK what was being served, bc that would be rude too. You ate what was served and you shut up about it.

    But therein lies the difference: if the host isn't offended, where's the harm?

    I'm not asking the bar to remove its products bc we're only purchasing a certain percent of them. They have the right to sell their products to legal buyers. We have no issue with this. No harm. No foul.
  • What the f is an AHR?
  • jerkyanne said:
    What the f is an AHR?
    At Home Reception.  Often, people who have a destination wedding will invite those who could not attend to a reception at home after the fact.
  • jerkyanne said:

    What the f is an AHR?

    At home reception. In the case of OP, it is a party after their fake wedding.
  • MobKaz said:



    Actually, your wedding wasn't fully hosted. It already happened.

    Regarding your AHR, I'm curious as to how this will work in a bar during regular business hours. Do you have a private room for your guests? How will you know whom you will be serving?

    I'm on mobile so I'm not able to bold/highlight/whatever.

    But to your first sentence - I don't have the time to rehash all this stupidity for the thousandth time or dignify your comment with a response bc it's completely unrelated to our AHR.

    As for the AHR - yes, our party will be held in several private areas within the venue. We know everyone we've invited so any wandering randos will be pretty easy to spot. And our bartender is a good friend so wandering randos will be sent back to the main bar for service. Or he can pour their drink, charge them then send the rando on his/her way. Whatever's clever.
    I would then ask your bartender friend to only make available in your private area the drinks which you are hosting.
    The bar isn't going to want to do that. And neither are we. We're offering what we're offering. If someone wants something different there's no reason to prohibit it. It's more of an inconvenience for our guests to then go start a tab at the main bar and have to go in and out to refill.

    If they want free drinks they can drink what's offered. If they don't they can start a tab.

    We're covered from a hosting perspective. We would never be offended if someone wants something we're not hosting and is willing to pay for it. That's a silly thing for us to ever be offended by.
    I seriously don't know why you ask for advice here. I realize YOU aren't offended by this approach, but it's NOT about you. Etiquette wise, you should only have available the drinks which you are hosting. It would be more appropriate to have your private area and only serve the drinks you are covering.

    Your guests should not have to open their wallets at your hosted event. Period.
    That's the thing. They don't *have* to do any such thing. If they choose to buy their own beverage TK wisdom would say THEY are the ones being rude.

    But since I won't feel slighted and Mr. E doesn't care, all parties to the plan are in the clear.
    It's not rude for your guests to purchase a drink. It IS rude for you to have a bar available to your guests where you are only covering a portion of the beverages.

    And let me say this again. ... it does not matter if you feel slighted. As soon as you invite guests to celebrate with you, it ceases to be about you.

    And PLEASE point out where you claim that "TK wisdom" would deem it rude for your guests to purchase a drink other that the ones you are providing.

    You have been here long enough to know it NEVER ceases to be about her. 



    I wish I could quote the MANY TIMES posters have declared it rude on the part of the guest who seeks out their preferred beverage elsewhere rather than just drinking what's being offered. I'd say 98% of those discussions were deleted from the cash bar thread. But they were there, with plenty of agreement on the part of other posters.

    I mean, on its face, it does seem kind of rude on the guest's part, doesn't it? Most people wouldn't accept an invitation to their friend's house for dinner then run out to Mickey D's because they'd prefer a a burger over what was being served - that would be a slap in the face to the host(ess). In fact, we were brought up to not even ASK what was being served, bc that would be rude too. You ate what was served and you shut up about it.

    But therein lies the difference: if the host isn't offended, where's the harm?

    I'm not asking the bar to remove its products bc we're only purchasing a certain percent of them. They have the right to sell their products to legal buyers. We have no issue with this. No harm. No foul.

    You're right, OP. As long as you and your husband are happy, nothing else matters. Who the fuck cares about your family and friends?
  • OP, just put a sign, although I would skip the date. The date of your AHR isn't important and no one needs to be reminded of the date.

    To everyone else, may I suggest
    http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1037661/psa-friendly-reminder#latest
    image
  • OP, just put a sign, although I would skip the date. The date of your AHR isn't important and no one needs to be reminded of the date.

    To everyone else, may I suggest
    http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1037661/psa-friendly-reminder#latest
    Thank you, Lia.  I've done that with a poster I find incredibly annoying.  But it's a weird result when people quote this person and respond to them.  I'll keep it going for a few days and see if I can get over the weirdness, but if the quoting gets too strange I'll have to change it back.
  • jerkyanne said:

    What the f is an AHR?

    At home reception. In the case of OP, it is a party after their fake wedding.
    MobKaz said:


    jerkyanne said:

    What the f is an AHR?

    At Home Reception.  Often, people who have a destination wedding will invite those who could not attend to a reception at home after the fact.


    Gotcha.

    I thought it was going to stand for something worse, considering.
  • mrs4everhartmrs4everhart member
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer
    edited August 2014
    Actually, your wedding wasn't fully hosted. It already happened. Regarding your AHR, I'm curious as to how this will work in a bar during regular business hours. Do you have a private room for your guests? How will you know whom you will be serving?
    I'm on mobile so I'm not able to bold/highlight/whatever. But to your first sentence - I don't have the time to rehash all this stupidity for the thousandth time or dignify your comment with a response bc it's completely unrelated to our AHR. As for the AHR - yes, our party will be held in several private areas within the venue. We know everyone we've invited so any wandering randos will be pretty easy to spot. And our bartender is a good friend so wandering randos will be sent back to the main bar for service. Or he can pour their drink, charge them then send the rando on his/her way. Whatever's clever.
    I would then ask your bartender friend to only make available in your private area the drinks which you are hosting.
    The bar isn't going to want to do that. And neither are we. We're offering what we're offering. If someone wants something different there's no reason to prohibit it. It's more of an inconvenience for our guests to then go start a tab at the main bar and have to go in and out to refill. If they want free drinks they can drink what's offered. If they don't they can start a tab. We're covered from a hosting perspective. We would never be offended if someone wants something we're not hosting and is willing to pay for it. That's a silly thing for us to ever be offended by.
    I seriously don't know why you ask for advice here. I realize YOU aren't offended by this approach, but it's NOT about you. Etiquette wise, you should only have available the drinks which you are hosting. It would be more appropriate to have your private area and only serve the drinks you are covering. Your guests should not have to open their wallets at your hosted event. Period.
    That's the thing. They don't *have* to do any such thing. If they choose to buy their own beverage TK wisdom would say THEY are the ones being rude. But since I won't feel slighted and Mr. E doesn't care, all parties to the plan are in the clear.
    It's not rude for your guests to purchase a drink. It IS rude for you to have a bar available to your guests where you are only covering a portion of the beverages. And let me say this again. ... it does not matter if you feel slighted. As soon as you invite guests to celebrate with you, it ceases to be about you. And PLEASE point out where you claim that "TK wisdom" would deem it rude for your guests to purchase a drink other that the ones you are providing.
    You have been here long enough to know it NEVER ceases to be about her. 
    I wish I could quote the MANY TIMES posters have declared it rude on the part of the guest who seeks out their preferred beverage elsewhere rather than just drinking what's being offered. I'd say 98% of those discussions were deleted from the cash bar thread. But they were there, with plenty of agreement on the part of other posters. I mean, on its face, it does seem kind of rude on the guest's part, doesn't it? Most people wouldn't accept an invitation to their friend's house for dinner then run out to Mickey D's because they'd prefer a a burger over what was being served - that would be a slap in the face to the host(ess). In fact, we were brought up to not even ASK what was being served, bc that would be rude too. You ate what was served and you shut up about it. But therein lies the difference: if the host isn't offended, where's the harm? I'm not asking the bar to remove its products bc we're only purchasing a certain percent of them. They have the right to sell their products to legal buyers. We have no issue with this. No harm. No foul.
    You're right, OP. As long as you and your husband are happy, nothing else matters. Who the fuck cares about your family and friends?
    Edited: This box sucks. And there were originally paragraphs. Now I don't see any. If they're gone after I hit save comment, so be it, I'm not editing again.

    How does what anyone else chooses to drink effect my happiness one way or the other? It makes me happy to provide certain types of beverages at a party we're throwing, yes. Because throwing parties makes me happy. If someone chooses to purchase something different I'd be within my rights etiquette-wise to be put off by their actions. But I wouldn't be. So I have no idea where the "who the fuck cares about your family and friends" thing comes in? Unless you're just out of constructive things to say. We are hosting a select number of items. Nothing wrong with that according to etiquette. Because I'm not going to get butt hurt if someone doesn't like what I'm hosting and buys their own that's not the same as saying "fuck them." That's the same as saying: We're all adults here. You know what's on us, please partake. If you don't want to, you know what your options are. Now let's party.
  • OP, just put a sign, although I would skip the date. The date of your AHR isn't important and no one needs to be reminded of the date.

    To everyone else, may I suggest
    http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1037661/psa-friendly-reminder#latest

    Our names and verbiage similar to what was provided above should suffice. The date of the AHR does seem superfluous to add to a menu.
  • I'm not touching the PPD, AHR, whatever.. that's been beaten to death.

    But, I think if there is a menu that states that the hosts are providing beer, wine, coffee, soda and tea, and you order a vodka tonic, you are rude. It would be best if the other options are not available, but most restaurants won't remove everything if the bar is already there. 

    However, the hosts should request that nothing else other than what they are hosting be served. 
    A simple, I'm sorry we are only providing X Yand Z tonight is acceptable.
    image
    image

    image


  • All right damn it. After countless threads of the same crap, I'm doing it. I'm calling MUD.
    image
  • I would just like to say I love everything about this thread and that the OP continues to ask for advice here.
  • Not for nothing, but if we really want to get picky, it's technically not a AHR. As mentioned, AHR is a party back home after a DW for those who could not travel to a DW. Since the event in Mexico is not a DW, but a vow renewal/celebration of marriage, the event in Denver is not an AHR. Both events are celebration of marriage parties. I know I'm just mincing words at this point, but could't help it.

    That being said, the etiquette doesn't change between AHR or celebration of marriage. 

     







  • TerriHuggTerriHugg member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    edited August 2014
    I have a serious question. 

    Are restaurants/bars/etc usually willing to move all drinks the host is not paying for? For example, if at the wedding, you are paying for wine and beer does that mean the reception venue typically removes any traces of vodka, rum, etc. from behind the bar so it won't be seen by wedding guests? 

    How realistic is it for us to expect that a restaurant or whatever will be ok with moving all their stock from the bar because you decided you aren't planning to offer that to the guests?

    If so, I didn't know venues were willing to do such a thing. 
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • mrs4everhartmrs4everhart member
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer
    edited August 2014
    TerriHugg said:

    I have a serious question. 


    Are restaurants/bars/etc usually willing to move all drinks the host is not paying for? For example, if at the wedding, you are paying for wine and beer at a wedding, does that mean the reception venue typically removes any traces of vodka, rum, etc. from behind the bar so it won't be seen by wedding guests? 

    How realistic is it for us to expect that a restaurant or whatever will be ok with moving all their stock from the bar because you decided you aren't planning to offer that to the guests?

    If so, I didn't know venues were willing to do such a thing. 
    I run a bar for a living. I wouldn't do it. Only perhaps if it was a deal breaker, but then that depends on possible revenue.

    My job is to sell as much booze as legally possible. I don't care who is paying and what etiquette they follow. Paying someone to move it all out then back in is a poor use of labor dollars, especially to undercut sales.

    Someone's budget limitations will not dictate creating more work for my staff, especially for lessened sales opportunities.

    Edited: autocorrected.
  • I would just like to say I love everything about this thread and that the OP continues to ask for advice here.

    And shockingly, I got advice somewhere in this quagmire.
  • Some bars will cover the liquor instead of moving it. It's much easier.
  • I have a serious question. 

    Are restaurants/bars/etc usually willing to move all drinks the host is not paying for? For example, if at the wedding, you are paying for wine and beer at a wedding, does that mean the reception venue typically removes any traces of vodka, rum, etc. from behind the bar so it won't be seen by wedding guests? 

    How realistic is it for us to expect that a restaurant or whatever will be ok with moving all their stock from the bar because you decided you aren't planning to offer that to the guests?

    If so, I didn't know venues were willing to do such a thing. 
    I run a bar for a living. I wouldn't do it. Only perhaps if it was a deal breaker, but then that depends on possible revenue. My job is to sell as much booze as legally possible. I don't care who is paying and what etiquette they follow. Paying someone to move it all out then back in is a poor use of labor dollars, especially to undercut sales. Someone's budget limitations will not dictate creating more work for my staff, especially for lessened sales opportunities. Edited: autocorrected.
    And, therefore, if one wishes to be a host(ess) who is considerate of etiquette, one either hosts an open bar or chooses a venue where only the hosted drinks can be seen and thus ordered. One does not pick a bar for their venue if the bar will not hide what is not hosted or if the host will not pay for all the drinks ordered by their party.
    image


  • TerriHugg said:

    I have a serious question. 


    Are restaurants/bars/etc usually willing to move all drinks the host is not paying for? For example, if at the wedding, you are paying for wine and beer at a wedding, does that mean the reception venue typically removes any traces of vodka, rum, etc. from behind the bar so it won't be seen by wedding guests? 

    How realistic is it for us to expect that a restaurant or whatever will be ok with moving all their stock from the bar because you decided you aren't planning to offer that to the guests?

    If so, I didn't know venues were willing to do such a thing. 
    I run a bar for a living. I wouldn't do it. Only perhaps if it was a deal breaker, but then that depends on possible revenue.

    My job is to sell as much booze as legally possible. I don't care who is paying and what etiquette they follow. Paying someone to move it all out then back in is a poor use of labor dollars, especially to undercut sales.

    Someone's budget limitations will not dictate creating more work for my staff, especially for lessened sales opportunities.

    Edited: autocorrected.

    And, therefore, if one wishes to be a host(ess) who is considerate of etiquette, one either hosts an open bar or chooses a venue where only the hosted drinks can be seen and thus ordered. One does not pick a bar for their venue if the bar will not hide what is not hosted or if the host will not pay for all the drinks ordered by their party.

    This is going to come as quite a shock to all but being considerate of etiquette wasn't in the top five priorities when deciding on our after party venue.

    We're clearly not opposed to people paying for something they'd rather have besides what we're hosting.

    Space, price, the ability to use the caterer of our choice, the AV equipment and the amount of activities provided all weighed in over whether they'd take down booze we weren't hosting.

    I'm not concerned if people are offended that they possibly *could* buy something if they want to. That's just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of to be offended about when there's hosted options.
  • This is going to come as quite a shock to all but being considerate of etiquette wasn't in the top five priorities when deciding on our after party venue.



    Quality post for an ETIQUETTE board.

    And, I'm curious ... what's the AV equipment for? To show a video of your PPD?
  • This is going to come as quite a shock to all but being considerate of etiquette wasn't in the top five priorities when deciding on our after party venue.



    Quality post for an ETIQUETTE board.

    And, I'm curious ... what's the AV equipment for? To show a video of your PPD?


    I've never thrown a bad party, so I'm not too worried. I was curious about wording a sign, not about the pros and cons of whether anyone may take offense over what we're hosting.

    Don't know if the video will be edited and complete in time. But a pic slideshow will scroll on the TV's and more importantly, our playlists will be hooked in to the audio. But sure, if the wedding video is completed in time maybe we'll show it if we like the way it comes out. If we don't, we'll skip it.
  • @AddieCake, that's why I didn't even mention that part. Just the poor etiquette as this is the E board.
    image
  • i think she meant wedidng is open bar to what she is hosting its STILL considered partial bar and not full bar which is rude and tacky to want your guest to have to pay

    a f few amily memebers of mine recently went to a few weddings after mine. one wedding was beer and wine only the other two weddings they attended was only an hour of open bar and the rest was cash so people were stocking up during open bar to last them the night

    if you cant afford a full open bar you need to let your bartender know that no other drinks are to be sold its only what we are hosting 
  • I'm pretty sure the bar isn't going to be removing it's products. Why would they? That's how they make their money. I think just a sign mentioning what you are hosting should be good enough.
    image
  • edited September 2014

    MobKaz said:



    Actually, your wedding wasn't fully hosted. It already happened.

    Regarding your AHR, I'm curious as to how this will work in a bar during regular business hours. Do you have a private room for your guests? How will you know whom you will be serving?

    I'm on mobile so I'm not able to bold/highlight/whatever.

    But to your first sentence - I don't have the time to rehash all this stupidity for the thousandth time or dignify your comment with a response bc it's completely unrelated to our AHR.

    As for the AHR - yes, our party will be held in several private areas within the venue. We know everyone we've invited so any wandering randos will be pretty easy to spot. And our bartender is a good friend so wandering randos will be sent back to the main bar for service. Or he can pour their drink, charge them then send the rando on his/her way. Whatever's clever.
    I would then ask your bartender friend to only make available in your private area the drinks which you are hosting.
    The bar isn't going to want to do that. And neither are we. We're offering what we're offering. If someone wants something different there's no reason to prohibit it. It's more of an inconvenience for our guests to then go start a tab at the main bar and have to go in and out to refill.

    If they want free drinks they can drink what's offered. If they don't they can start a tab.

    We're covered from a hosting perspective. We would never be offended if someone wants something we're not hosting and is willing to pay for it. That's a silly thing for us to ever be offended by.
    I seriously don't know why you ask for advice here. I realize YOU aren't offended by this approach, but it's NOT about you. Etiquette wise, you should only have available the drinks which you are hosting. It would be more appropriate to have your private area and only serve the drinks you are covering.

    Your guests should not have to open their wallets at your hosted event. Period.
    That's the thing. They don't *have* to do any such thing. If they choose to buy their own beverage TK wisdom would say THEY are the ones being rude.

    But since I won't feel slighted and Mr. E doesn't care, all parties to the plan are in the clear.
    It's not rude for your guests to purchase a drink. It IS rude for you to have a bar available to your guests where you are only covering a portion of the beverages.

    And let me say this again. ... it does not matter if you feel slighted. As soon as you invite guests to celebrate with you, it ceases to be about you.

    And PLEASE point out where you claim that "TK wisdom" would deem it rude for your guests to purchase a drink other that the ones you are providing.

    You have been here long enough to know it NEVER ceases to be about her. 

    I wish I could quote the MANY TIMES posters have declared it rude on the part of the guest who seeks out their preferred beverage elsewhere rather than just drinking what's being offered. I'd say 98% of those discussions were deleted from the cash bar thread. But they were there, with plenty of agreement on the part of other posters.

    I mean, on its face, it does seem kind of rude on the guest's part, doesn't it? Most people wouldn't accept an invitation to their friend's house for dinner then run out to Mickey D's because they'd prefer a a burger over what was being served - that would be a slap in the face to the host(ess). In fact, we were brought up to not even ASK what was being served, bc that would be rude too. You ate what was served and you shut up about it.

    But therein lies the difference: if the host isn't offended, where's the harm?

    I'm not asking the bar to remove its products bc we're only purchasing a certain percent of them. They have the right to sell their products to legal buyers. We have no issue with this. No harm. No foul.


    ETA...stupid boxes* *****************************

    I have been one to say it is rude for guests to go seek out and purchase other beverages...but that's when they go out to the main bar. If your private bar has unhosted, cash outings it is rude.

    The bar in the private event space should only offer the hosted options. You are reserving the space and at the very least should ask the bar to honor this request. Then, if a guest goes back out to the main bar to purchase unhosted drinks, they are rude, as you recall some folks saying. You are fine to not be offended, but you should not offer unhosted drinks at the bar in your private party room. I'm not saying they even need to remove the bottles, just only serve the hosted drinks and say "sorry that is not accessible at this bar" if someone tries to order something else.

    The sign would still be appropriate so people know what is being served.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards