Catholics - Presbyterian Minister/Pastor
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere on the site but honestly, most of it is from 2010-2011 so those people are probably off by now.
I have a friend whose mother is a Presbyterian Minister. My fiancé and I are both Catholic however, we do not wish to be married in the Church. Will Presbyterian Ministers perform a marriage union outdoors/outside of a place of worship, factoring in of course that we are not Presbyterians? It would be for the sake of having someone we know perform the ceremony. I know that Catholic priests can technically marry you (if they so choose) outside the Church by appealing to the local bishop and gaining their approval. I'm just not sure we're willing to jump through hoops to do it. Will it just depend on the person, or is there some sort of Canon law for this faith? I keep Googling but all I seem to get are results about the church's appeals for gay marriage.
Re: Catholics - Presbyterian Minister/Pastor
We are having an outdoor wedding. We are thinking of doing the big wedding (outdoors) and then later on a smaller ceremony in a Catholic church - for immediate family. We go to Church about as often as most nowadays. We live by Christian values and both believe in God, we are just "technically" Catholic.
My father is Episcopalian but was married to my (Catholic) mother in the Catholic church. He was not however, permitted to receive communion at his own wedding - something I find thoroughly disrespectful and contradictory to Christian values, but that is the prerogative of the Church. He still goes to Communion when attending Mass with my mother... To us a Sacrament is more between you and the relationship you have with God/your faith than what someone else thinks. We believe that God is no less present outdoors than inside of a church/chapel. I think you're right though, it will just depend on what she says and how she feels about it. Thanks for the feedback!
The sacrament of Communion is practiced in both Churches. I find it offensive to deny someone the Sacrament, because both faiths practice the consecration of the Eucharist, representing the exact same thing. The both uphold almost the exact same values and beliefs. My parents however, chose not to have a Mass because of the priests decision. Both Churches recognize the same seven sacraments. Also, FYI? My mother is allowed to receive Communion in his church.
On the second count, I guess I wasn't altogether clear. I meant that I am/can be an "unofficial" godparent regardless of Church mandate. My friends and family would not withhold that from me on; whether or not it was recognized by the Catholic Church would be disregarded. In other words, my religious practice is not as important to them as it is to entrust their children to me as a guiding influence in their lives. That doesn't make them "bad Catholics" nor is it grounds to revoke their rights to Catholicism. People have godparents all the time who don't get married in a church. My 32 year old sister for example, has a godson and she hasn't been to church since she was 18. It didn't matter to the family. I was not asking to be preached at, I simply wanted a yes or no answer. Once again the forums on this website resulted in people being judgmental and accusatory towards someone with nothing but well-meant intentions. As a final statement however, I will not be married in the Catholic Church. My relationship with God and Christian values have proven to be more important to me than copping out as a cafeteria Catholic. I believe that my relationship with Him is between us, and no one else.
For example:To me, the Eucharist is a symbol of Christ; like my father I do not believe in literal Transubstantiation, nor do I believe in the divine intervention when it comes to the selection of a Pope or priests. They are messengers and people of God. I do not believe that they were divinely "chosen" directly by Him. I do not believe that God intervenes in the choice that cardinals make directly when election time comes. I believe that they made the choice to follow a life dedicated to serving Him and the faithful of their own accord. I also take issue with their standpoints on other aspects of marriage, but understand their prerogatives. I don't believe that couples should HAVE to accept children. I believe they have the right to choose that option for themselves. I believe that homosexuals are no less equal in the eyes of God than anyone else, including His acceptance of a marriage. God does not reject us for who we are and I don't think the Church has moral ground to contradict or renounce that. They can have children just as much as a heterosexual couple, so why deny them the same rights as anyone else? My Christian values do not equal Catholicism, nor do they entirely equate to the Episcopal faith. Again, this is what I have chosen and I won't be judged for it.
No one is judging you. We're just telling you that there will be actual consequences within the Catholic faith for marrying outside the Church.
If you don't care about those consequences, which you seem to have clearly stated, that's one thing. But many brides do care about those consequences and just hadn't heard about them until posting here, so we wanted to make sure you were making a fully informed decision.
If one does not follow the form of marriage required for Catholics under Canon Law, they are not considered married in the eyes of the Church. Until you have the marriage validated, (blessed) you may not receive communion. You are still a member of the Church, are not excommunicated, and required to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days.
Who should not receive Communion....... Anyone not in full communion with Christ and his Church. If one publicly and obstinately persists in grave sin (living in adultery, promoting abortion, etal) Canon Law requires that person not approach for Communion until he/she is reconciled to God in his heart and through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. This includes those who are living in “irregular” marriages not considered valid by the Church. If you (or anyone) has grave, unconfessed sin—or has no intention of changing—why would you approach Our Lord in Holy Communion in a state that would offend and grieve him? The Sacrament of Confession—also an intimate encounter with him—prepares one to receive him worthily.
By doing something that specifically separates you from the Church, like totally disregarding the sacrament of marriage, you put yourself out of full "communion" with the Church (temporarily, hopefully). Hence the idea that you shouldn't be participating in Communion, our greatest act of unity in and with Christ.
But as Banana said, it's primarily self-enforced.
Eta ~ boxes *************************************
My Catholic education taught me that an opinion is not a sin. For example, being gay is not a sin, having relations outside of marriage it's the sin. So the only easy the priest should be able to deny her the Eucharist us if he knows she had an abortion and had not been to confession since. Priests like that give Catholicism a bad name.
I am currently outside the Eucharist, my priest told me he would still give it to me, but I refuse bc I know I'm not in good standing. It was my choice (due to the annulment process) and I live with the consequences. I didn't make excuses or go against what my heart felt was right.
Ditto. I think it's the actively campaigning for the rights of it that make the area at least "gray".
Thank God the pope is more inclusive or people would get turned away for supporting gay marriage or attending a gay marriage ceremony next. I don't think individual priests or even bishops for that matter should be deciding whether she had committed a moral sin on this grounds, but then it's just one more reason to add on to why I have not chosen to takethe steps to get back in good standing.
In the intercessions, the Church indicates that the Eucharist is celebrated in communion with the whole Church in heaven and on earth, the living and the dead, and in communion with the pastors of the Church, the Pope, the diocesan bishop, his presbyterium and his deacons, and all the bishops of the whole world together with their Churches.
So, receiving the Eucharist is a declaration that you are in communion with the Pope and Bishop. Now, if your bishop is like mine and is a huge Steelers fan and you're not, that doesn't mean that you're not in communion with him. What it means is that the bishop and Pope are the teaching authority entrusted to the Church by Jesus (Matthew 16:18).
Paul said ""Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself." (1 Cor 11:27-29)
If a couple marries outside the Catholic Church, they are not in communion with the Catholic Church. Therefore, it is inappropriate for them to receive the Eucharist when they are saying "Amen" to something they clearly do not agree with.
My crisis of faith never stems from God, but the man made rules that typically benefit the men making them or just men in general.