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Snarky Brides
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[Deleted User]
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A lot of you are ruining this forum for new brides who just want some genuine advice!
I was so excited to finally set up my account on The Knot when I got engaged, and a big part of it was looking forward to having constructive and informative conversations with other brides. I was shocked when I started reading through some threads that were of interest to me, only to find that posters can't even ask simple questions without seemingly the same group of hostile women pouncing all over them assuming they're doing something wrong. When someone asks about a decor idea or advice on how to deal with a conflict, all they're asking for is an answer to that specific question, not a loaded bitchy comment about how some other aspect of their planning or thinking process is wrong, rude or tacky. I, and many others i'm sure, absolutely appreciate a blunt critical answer, but there's a difference between answering a specific question bluntly, and going out of your way to call all the OP's values and intentions into question in order to make them feel clueless and/or put them down.
I will not be posting any of my own wedding related questions on this forum, and that's really a shame, because I love The Knot as a website/service, it's just really too bad the forums have been taken over by people who have no desire to actually help others, but are seemingly here just to feed their own egos. I don't feel that I will receive any useful advice here without also being attacked. I really just wanted to post this in hopes that someone will read it and re-think their intentions when responding to another poster who probably just wants a simple and direct answer.
Example:
Q: Do you think these centrepieces are okay?
A: No, they're a little large, your guests may not want to have to look over top of a five foot tall flower arrangement to talk to each other. Maybe think about how you can keep the same concept, but scale them down a bit.
Rather than:
Q: Do you think these centrepieces are okay?
A: Ew! They're so tacky, this isn't a 4th grade birthday party. Have you thought about how your decor should reflect you and your fiancee as a couple?? This isn't all about you. If the rest of your decor is as girly and obnoxious as this, your husband, guests, and family will hate you forever.
This is not helpful, constructive or polite. It is just to make someone feel bad. Stop.
I will not be posting any of my own wedding related questions on this forum, and that's really a shame, because I love The Knot as a website/service, it's just really too bad the forums have been taken over by people who have no desire to actually help others, but are seemingly here just to feed their own egos. I don't feel that I will receive any useful advice here without also being attacked. I really just wanted to post this in hopes that someone will read it and re-think their intentions when responding to another poster who probably just wants a simple and direct answer.
Example:
Q: Do you think these centrepieces are okay?
A: No, they're a little large, your guests may not want to have to look over top of a five foot tall flower arrangement to talk to each other. Maybe think about how you can keep the same concept, but scale them down a bit.
Rather than:
Q: Do you think these centrepieces are okay?
A: Ew! They're so tacky, this isn't a 4th grade birthday party. Have you thought about how your decor should reflect you and your fiancee as a couple?? This isn't all about you. If the rest of your decor is as girly and obnoxious as this, your husband, guests, and family will hate you forever.
This is not helpful, constructive or polite. It is just to make someone feel bad. Stop.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: A lot of you are ruining this forum for new brides who just want some genuine advice!
People here don't sugarcoat, it's an etiquette board. If something goes against etiquette, it'll get called out. You may want to lurk a little, get to know to tone of the boards. If you find the forums too harsh, maybe Weddingbee might validate your ideas better.
I really am curious where you found someone asking about centerpieces and got multiple responses involving "your husband will hate you forever." As far as I know there is not a clique of middle schoolers dispensing advice but maybe I just frequent the wrong boards.
I've been here awhile and usually this sort of post is created by someone feeling defensive because the posters on these boards aren't validating their plans to push the costs of their "dream wedding" off on their guests or their complaints about their brideslaves not pulling their weight.
Never has changed the tone of regular posters.
I DO see a lot of people going off on actual rude behavior- not matters of taste but matters of etiquette. I agree it can be harsh and it definitely behooves one to get to know the tone of the board before posting, lest they take it too personally. TBH sometimes I think it does cross the line into being mean, rather than just blunt... but the vast majority of the time it doesn't.
Anyway, I've been on here well over a year now and see these kinds of posts every couple of months. They don't change anything ever.
A lot of you special snowflakes make it unnecessarily chilly around here. I hate having to wear my mittens to interact with you.
Isn't it interesting how they never have the balls to name names?
A veteran message board participant (not just this board, but of boards of all kinds) knows who is being an ass (every board has them), who gives good advice (even if their delivery is a little off putting). It's just the way message boards work.
I will admit there are some regs on here when I see their replies I will roll my eyes at the response. Sometimes I call them out if it needs to be called out.
For example, if a user said "Ew! They're so tacky, this isn't a 4th grade birthday party. Have you thought about how your decor should reflect you and your fiancee as a couple?? This isn't all about you. If the rest of your decor is as girly and obnoxious as this, your husband, guests, and family will hate you forever." to a simple "how are these CPs?" I would call them out. Most of us here would.
Other times I think "yep, that is a typical [insert user] respond" and just move on to the next reply. It's just the way they post. NBD.
Sometimes I have get a good chuckle at some responses. Then move on to the next reply.
Our main goal is to make sure your guests are taken care of properly. For reasons I just can't understand some users think if you take care of your guests then the wedding is not their "vision". Which is silly. You can have your vision by taking care of your guests too.
You will find most of time when we are called out for being rude, it's actually the poster trying to be rude to their guests. Then they get defensive. If a bunch of users are saying the same thing the OP starts in on how we are rude, well then, that is the OP's problem. We give honest answers. Just because we disagree with the poster does not mean we are rude.
And here was little new me thinking how polite and helpful the posters here are. There's no one here telling me to put inappropriate demands on my invitations. There's no weird promotion of weird wedding party work demands.
I'm clearly missing something.
Frankly, worrying about centrepieces when one is being rude to their guests (with things like cash bars, not enough chairs, dollar dances, honeyfunds, etc) they do need to have their priorities checked. No ine cares what time of year, amount spent, etc of someone's wedding. But the only rule is treat your guests like "guests" and host them like your nearest and dearest. So if one wants an outside wedding, yes, Winter in Canada is the wrong time of year to force people to stand outside. But by all means move it inside and have a great time. It's rude to make others spend money/be uncomfortable for 'your special day'. If rudeness is their "core value" (your words) I'm confused why you are defending that?
I'm an adult and don't need these women/men to sugar coat everything they say, but it seems there are a lot if people out there that don't deal well with direct advice and confuse it for something else. I suggest lurking some more till you see that the advise is from a genuine place and if you still can't take it then this forum is not for you.
I find it interesting that you seem to think being passive-aggressive is the same thing as being polite. Or that you think the only two options is to passive-aggressively post vagaries as part of your savior-complex or to say "You're snobby haters". You could, in fact, attempt to engage in a conversation. You could try to understand their point of view before making judgments. You could pose the question to the people whom you find so offensive asking them about their specific responses or politely saying "I find the way you worded that to be harsh. Isn't there a better way to communicate that message?"
Your passive-aggressive impolite calling out a vague group coupled with the fact that you had to make up examples "to prove your point", which does the exact opposite, isn't speaking too favorably about you, either. There's a saying about glass houses for a reason.
Lisa, Vic, Addie, and others pretty much covered the rest.
The point of this post was to express my disappointment with the state of The Knot's forums and the population of people here who prefer to belittle and shame people for their choices rather than offering constructive criticism and genuine advice in a helpful way. This behavior is what has deterred me from engaging in conversations about my own wedding on this forum, which frankly, sucks.
I'm getting bored of this post because it's becoming clear that no one is willing to attempt to "understand [another's] point of view before making judgments." (In the words of Jacques27)
Or to entertain the idea that, perhaps, YOU are the passive-aggressive ones who are chasing new, valuable members away with your attitudes.
IDK, I think you'll enjoy wedding wire a lot more.
There are plenty of rude things I've experienced at weddings - couples only inviting some people to the reception, a couple not attempting to greet and thank their guests, having a wedding outside in the summer in Texas with no shade, having a 3 hour unhosted gap between the ceremony & reception. ...
These people were all nice, good people. For some reason, they thought that these ways to celebrate their wedding was a good idea. I know I consisted a few things that are against etiquette. Often times, it takes someone from the outside looking in to see these blunders and guide people before they offend their friends & family. And, yes, I was offended by the things I listed above.
Here's a good rule of thumb: don't ask a question of you don't want to hear a certain answer. Chances are, the answer you're avoiding could be the right one.
Are people here blunt? Sometimes, yes. I've learned that people here say what many others are thinking.
If you don't like the tone of the people here, then that's your choice. Go to weddingbee.
Brides Beware: These Knotties have opinions and aren't afraid to share them. Get ready for some real, honest feedback! (Leave your sensitivity at the door)
Kind-of funny we are bing called out for being real and honest on a board that warns you we are just that, real and honest and are not afraid to share our opinions.
Sure it's carried over to the other boards, but that is the vibe on this site. If you don't real advice and only validation then we are not the site for you. Sorrynotsorry.
For the record, I felt like I got my ass handed to me on my first post on here. My post was something pretty simple like "looking for a venue in DE/NJ" on the reception board. They responded something like "this is an international board. I personally in Texas so we really can't help you. Try the local boards". Which BTW at the time didn't really know was there.
I totally read it as "what are you stupid? I live in fucking Texas I don't know any venues in Delaware. Go to your fucking local board and leave us alone."
After I lurked more I figured they were right. I figured out I was reading in tone that was there. And they were helping me.
FWIW - We get quite a few lurkers who pop in after the wedding and THANK us for our advice. They never even asked a question, but they lurked, took advice and came back saying their weddings were awesome based on our advice. Sorry you can't see past the snark and see we really do have good advice.
Lady asks about what to do with a venue that has screwed her by building an ugly structure on the lot she's booked for her outdoor wedding. This is an example of a constructive response:
[username] said:
"Okay, so have the reception in the upper lot like you wanted and have the ceremony in the or around the barn. How big is the dance floor? How many people are you inviting? Does terrain prevent you from setting up outside of the barn? Is it impossible because of the spiral aisle?"
This is not a constructive response:
Box
[username] said:
The fiancé set the budget, it is in stone. (He's very frugal and even getting the budget I have was work) Yes, we have the money now, and will not be spending a Penney over the set budget. I am not having random strangers in charge of getting my wedding set up. I don't have any extra money in the budget to pay for things that would be a non issue if they had not changed the venue so drastically.
Box
[username] said:
"This is a huge red flag.
Even if you were working extra hours or making the money, he wouldn't be flexible with the wedding budget? He's not willing to take a dramatic change in circumstances into account and rework it? Is your FI in charge of all the budget decisions in your household?
If he's so inflexible now about a change, how will it be when you're married? Will you always be deferring to his financial decisions?"
Why are they calling the OP's relationship into question??? This has nothing to do with the original post and is just incredibly presumptuous and hurtful. The thread spirals downward fast after this because of course the poor girl starts to get defensive once someone has tried make assumptions and insinuations about her relationship.
You are not marriage counsellors. You are not psychologists. You are people on the internet who have some insight into planning a wedding. Stop trying to make people feel like crap by diverting for the sake of drama. It's not productive or helpful, or simply blunt. It's mean.
The question raised is actually a really good one. Finances are a big reason for disagreements in marriage. If he's this controlling now, it could very well be a sign of what's to come.
Honestly, in the big scheme of things, the finances discussion is much more important than the building on the venue.
A lot of us here giving the advice are married. We know that the discussion about wedding details can often be more than what meets the eye. It's also REALLY easy to get so caught up in the excitementof the "perfect day" and lose sight of what's important - the marriage.
So I absolutely agree that in the case you reference, the bigger concern is money management between the couple rather than the venue.
The question raised is actually a really good one. Finances are a big reason for disagreements in marriage. If he's this controlling now, it could very well be a sign of what's to come.
Honestly, in the big scheme of things, the finances discussion is much more important than the building on the venue.
A lot of us here giving the advice are married. We know that the discussion about wedding details can often be more than what meets the eye. It's also REALLY easy to get so caught up in the excitementof the "perfect day" and lose sight of what's important - the marriage.
So I absolutely agree that in the case you reference, the bigger concern is money management between the couple rather than the venue.
Box?
So the user who responded above is a financial counsellor? Does this person know the couple personally?
If the answer to either of these questions is no, then the person has no business commenting on her relationship.
What would have really helped the OP was some advice on how to deal with the venue changing their property, she doesn't need unsolicited relationship advice from people she doesn't know.
I think some of the previous respondents were absolutely right to question her desire to have a completely outdoor wedding with no shelter in case of bad weather, which she addressed. So, yes, being blunt and bringing up issues related to the original question is absolutely helpful and a good idea.
I honestly think the attack on her relationship was unwarranted and probably just meant to make her feel worse then she already did after having her venue screw her over.
This is the type of response that I think really needs to be addressed.
So the user who responded above is a financial counsellor? Does this person know the couple personally?
If the answer to either of these questions is no, then the person has no business commenting on her relationship.
What would have really helped the OP was some advice on how to deal with the venue changing their property, she doesn't need unsolicited relationship advice from people she doesn't know.
I think some of the previous respondents were absolutely right to question her desire to have a completely outdoor wedding with no shelter in case of bad weather, which she addressed. So, yes, being blunt and bringing up issues related to the original question is absolutely helpful and a good idea.
I honestly think the attack on her relationship was unwarranted and probably just meant to make her feel worse then she already did after having her venue screw her over.
This is the type of response that I think really needs to be addressed.
---------
Very few people here know the others personally. And you don't need to be a financial counselor to know that a situation like that can cause problems down the road. And that was hardly an attack. That was a person stepping back and saying the potential of issues in the marriage regarding finances is a bigger issue than the original one posted.
(a) You can include names. We'll realize who we are. We're not going to start crying or something if you quote us.
(b) @holyguacamole79 summed it up, but I'd also add that if you bring a topic to a discussion, you should expect other people to comment on it. Personally, I've learned this the hard way, too, when I added bits to my posts that regs pointed out and told me I was wrong...and then I thought about it for a few minutes, and realized that either they were right or that I had added info without context, which meant their comments made sense.
(c) I'm not sure if anyone's a marriage counselor per sey, but some of us on here do have or are working on advanced degrees in psychological sciences (like me). Some of us have experienced or worked with people who have experienced abuse and domestic violence.
In the quoted case, the fact is, the families and friends of victims often can't raise red flags, because they know the abuser will use that to further isolate the victim - sometimes an anonymous person with no skin in the game is the ONLY one able to say some of these things. I could live with saying that to a woman in a healthy relationship, who misrepresented the power dynamic - she would get pissed, but be no worse for wear in the long run. I couldn't live with myself if she actually WAS in a bad relationship, with unhealthy power dynamics and possibly other issues, because I (and the other women here) may have been the only one who could say something to her without perpetuating a cycle of abuse.
Which is actually the point of these boards - though for an etiquette standpoint, not an abuse/DV standpoint. There are plenty of things your family and friends will go along with because they love you. The ladies here are saying what they won't, and helping others figure out how to make wedding a truly enjoyable experience for guests - not something they silently endure out of obligation or love.
Edit: In case it's not common knowledge, power dynamics which include one partner being in charge of all the money is a warning sign for other types of abuse - it allows the abuser to isolate the abused partner, control what they do, who they see, etc. It is one of those things which may or may not come with abuse, but which is definitely a red flag, which is where my comment came from.