Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday

dmiller9274

Alli, it's so hard to watch a friend go through it. All reason and logic wants to just scream "run like hell" but abusers have mastered manipulation to the point that they can control their "loved one" without them even knowing that's what is going on. Stay strong for your friend, she's lucky to have you. Hopefully very soon you'll get the phone call to come help her pack up her shiiiit and move on with her life.

Smash Adams

Dmills, you clearly don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but do you participate in NA/AA?

number55

Here are my thoughts regarding a lot of what was discussed here and last night...

- I do not see how anybody who says that they do not believe in abortion (or divorce or same-sex marriage or any of the other hot-button issues that involve the Church) AND  is a self-avowed Christian (be it Catholic or other) can pretend that that their views on those topics are separate from their faith. I don't care when you came to your faith - the two have to be linked somehow.  

- I don't understand how you can't see how religious opinions should have no place within the laws set forth in a country where there is a separation of church and state.

- I feel as though many Christians forget that 'coming to Christ' is about choice. It is never about being forced to accept his precepts. In fact, if one follows the tenants he lays out in the New Testament under the guise of appearing one way whilst living another - that in and of itself is a sin.  Being a Christian is about CHOOSING to follow His way. Why then must so many Christians spend their time telling other people what they HAVE to do or absolutely CANNOT do...I don't understand it. Live Christian lives, take care of the poor, the sick, the elderly and let your LOVE do the talking. Don't force your opinions on other people. That is never how people are going to come to Christ. In over 2000 years that has never worked. And in fact, by doing so, a disservice is being done to His name because it is always being dragged through the mud...all anyone remembers is what you tell them they should have no choice in.  That is so not the man Jesus ever was. 

k, stepping off my soapbox. This shite just makes me mad. I am not saying I have it 'right' or all figured out, but I do know that telling other people that they should have less choice goes against what Jesus would preach. 

dmiller9274

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:7cf1d5e6-07f3-40e6-96ca-67a4fd6f3e32">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]Dmills, you clearly don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but do you participate in NA/AA?
Posted by Smash Adams[/QUOTE]
Nope, I went to a couple of meetings, but the biggest part of those are the 12 steps, and I whole heartedly disagree with step one and two. I won't admit that I was powerless to my addiction or that it would take a power greater than myself to restore me to my "sanity." I don't doubt for a second that God gave me the strength help myself, but at the end of the day, I'm the one that held all the power when it came to my addiction. <div>
</div><div>Also, for me, not drinking/using was hard enough, I didn't want to sit around a listen to a bunch of sad sacks constantly talk about using and drinking. I didn't want to rehash what I had been through, I just wanted to move on. </div><div>
</div><div>I keep my 24 hour coin with me all the time as a reminder of what it was like to make the most important decision of my life, but I just couldn't hang with the meetings. I think they are great for some people, just wasn't for me. </div>

[Deleted User]

I wish that everyone would just block chels so that we didn't have to go through this bullshit twice a week. And Nebb, ITA that she likes the attention. No one in their right mind could get flamed as much as she does with out getting something out of it.

AATB - your sig pic makes me hurt too.

allisong23

Numbers, it is so great to have you back.

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:818a91dd-8f10-494f-be7e-14bcaba004d4">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : Nope, I went to a couple of meetings, but the biggest part of those are the 12 steps, and I whole heartedly disagree with step one and two. I won't admit that I was powerless to my addiction or that it would take a power greater than myself to restore me to my "sanity." I don't doubt for a second that God gave me the strength help myself, but at the end of the day, I'm the one that held all the power when it came to my addiction.  Also, for me, not drinking/using was hard enough, I didn't want to sit around a listen to a bunch of sad sacks constantly talk about using and drinking. I didn't want to rehash what I had been through, I just wanted to move on.  I keep my 24 hour coin with me all the time as a reminder of what it was like to make the most important decision of my life, but I just couldn't hang with the meetings. I think they are great for some people, just wasn't for me. 
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]<div>Thanks for the info :)  Someone close to me just hit 1 year, and is struggling with a few of the steps.  I was just curious if your experience was similar.  I have issues with the program that are similar to yours, but if it works for others, that's great for them and I won't judge.

</div>

dmiller9274

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:4dfa4ab1-5fd8-4a83-8745-89ae12e303bd">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : Thanks for the info :)  Someone close to me just hit 1 year, and is struggling with a few of the steps.  I was just curious if your experience was similar.  I have issues with the program that are similar to yours, but if it works for others, that's great for them and I won't judge.
Posted by Smash Adams[/QUOTE]
No problem. <div>I think there's a lot of truth in the steps, and I think a lot of the steps are part of the natural process of recovery, but I don't think any one person can dictate the order and timeline of how you should process all that comes with recovery. (there's not really a timeline, but there's a lot of pressure to constantly be working on a specific step. Sometimes you go through multiple steps at the same time and that can go on for years.) </div><div>
</div><div>I can also see how the steps would be a huge turn off for someone who didn't believe in God. I do believe in God, and I'm a christian, but a lot of what I needed in my recovery was to accept my own personal accountability in how things got so out of control. I like to always believe that I'm in control, so for me it was about knowing that I made shiiity decisions, suffered the consequences, and fought like hell to regroup my poop. (or get my shiiit together, for those of you non-ohioans)</div><div>
</div><div>ETA: and feel free to ask any questions, I'm totally fine with talking about it :)</div>

Smash Adams

My friend's sponsor seems to be encouraging the work on the 4th step, which is what my friend is struggling with.  I did attend one meeting with my friend once, which was really interesting, especially because my friend (ugh, this is tedious but I'm trying to not use pronouns) knows that I don't necessarily believe in God.  Some of the speakers at the meeting consider themselves Atheists, so that was really interesting to observe.

I've heard a lot about the program from my friend, but not really from anyone else, aside from generic stuff that I learned in undergrad.  The God stuff is what I would have the biggest problems with, I think, and I can see why that'd be challenging for a non-believer.  It's also why I have some issues with courts mandating meetings for people who have DUIs, etc., but that's a whole different topic.

dmiller9274

Yeah, I have a HUGE problem with court mandated treatment. I also think that there are a lot of wacko drug and alcohol counselors out there. (also a lot of amazing ones) Addiction and recovery can't be stuffed into a generic treatment plan. There are varying reasons that people become addicts, get clean, and stay clean. Not everyone fits into the mold of what a lot of counselors/courts/sponsors try to push. 

The 4th step is a hard one, and honestly one that I think people should never stop working on...it's one of those things that I think is an ever changing and evolving list of things we work on. If your friend is struggling with it, it might be worth while to check around a few treatment facilities and see if he could find a drug and alcohol counselor that would be willing to talk with him/her. And honestly, it might be best for that person to not be a recovering addict. Recovered/recovering addicts sometimes get stuck on what worked for them because obviously it's what worked for them, and refuse to look beyond what might work for someone else. 

allisong23

What is the fourth step?

dmiller9274

alli, it's to make a moral and fearless personal inventory of ourselves

Smash Adams

I'll just call my friend A for the sake of ease.  A has sort of taken a step back from the 4th step, because I think A was wallowing in it.  It did not put them in a good place.

Alli, it's taking a "moral inventory" of the wrongs you've committed in the past and admitted them (and then continues on through the steps where you admit the wrongs, ask for forgiveness and make amends for the ones you can).  

From an outsider's perspective, A has admitted the wrongs over and over again and been introspective about them, and watching them do it again because their sponsor said so has been difficult.  

allisong23

Thanks!

dmiller9274

Ok, one last point, then I'll stop harping on this

To me, I've always felt like the 12 steps are focused on people who have been through horrible things, or have done terrible awful things while they were an addict. That just doesn't ring true for everyone who's become an addict. So making a list of our faults and things we've done that caused failures in our lives, can be a great thing, but I don't agree that sitting around harping on it (sometimes for years) is helpful. Another biggie with AA/NA is the serenity prayer...you ask for serenity to accept the things that you cannot change. You can't change the past, so why try to agonize of what was, accept it and move on. 

Honestly a lot of things probably won't even register to A for a long time after the fact. Obviously I know that drinking and driving is stupid, dangerous and a terrible thing to do. When that dude from Jackass got into the accident and killed himself and the passenger, there was a thread on TK that blew up with people discussing that they didn't feel bad for him, and thought he deserved what happened. Even though I'm now a huge preacher of always having a DD, I thought back to how many times I got in my car and drove home (sometimes over 30 miles) after I had easily had 18+ beers. I never thought about how if something had happened to me, that people would feel that way about me. I had thought about how thankful I was that I had never been in an accident or hurt anyone, but I had never thought that people would feel so cold about me. I thought about it a lot for a couple of days and it bothered me a lot, but I had to accept that I couldn't change what I had done, be incredibly thankful for the fact that I never hurt anyone, and move on. As time goes on, A will come across things that bring him/her back to things that happened during that time in their life, but if they aren't able to consider it, think hard about it, and move on, those are the people that relapse. Harping on shiiiit like that forever will eat away at you. 

Smash Adams

That's exactly what I worry about.  A lot of the drinking was a result of some of the other shitty stuff that was happening in A's life at the time, but A did some shitty stuff while drinking too.  

For real, dude, you aren't harping on anything, and have helped me understand some things from A's perspective better.  Which is huge for me (and A, though they don't know it).  So thanks

dmiller9274

np, I'm happy to help

Fo real though, anytime you want or need to ask questions or talk about that kind of stuff, I'm more than happy to share what I've gone through. My way and experiences aren't the answer for anyone other than myself, but sometimes it helps to know that just because someone isn't following the way that worked for someone else, it doesn't mean that they can't still find success in their own recovery. 

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:6c76ac35-7311-423d-9b69-f2e4d2298e7d">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]np, I'm happy to help :) Fo real though, anytime you want or need to ask questions or talk about that kind of stuff, I'm more than happy to share what I've gone through. My way and experiences aren't the answer for anyone other than myself, but sometimes it helps to know that just because someone isn't following the way that worked for someone else, it doesn't mean that they can't still find success in their own recovery. 
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]
I may have to PM you at some point.  I'm trying to be supportive and find that I kind of suck at some aspects of it.

dmiller9274

Anytime.

The fact that you are trying to be supportive and understand what it's like for A, means more to A than you will hopefully ever understand

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:9f85c358-56c0-4f92-8141-a03034b4c5da">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]Anytime. The fact that you are trying to be supportive and understand what it's like for A, means more to A than you will hopefully ever understand :)
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]
Dude, between you and AATB today, you guys are going to turn me into a big ball of mush.<div>
</div><div>Edit:  And KD too.</div>

kd.joseph

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:d07552f0-30fc-4c9a-a2bf-9d9eea999776">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : Dude, between you and AATB today, you guys are going to turn me into a big ball of mush. Edit:  And KD too.
Posted by Smash Adams[/QUOTE]

Aw you big ball of mush you! ;)

I cant believe this is still going...

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:e9b12ba4-29d4-4e04-bf97-447ecfa9f0cb">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : Aw you big ball of mush you! ;) I cant believe this is still going...
Posted by kd.joseph[/QUOTE]
I DON'T FEEL FEELINGS, GUYS.  

kd.joseph

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:fa4e5056-f995-4d1a-94c6-50efd116d3dc">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : I DON'T FEEL FEELINGS, GUYS.  
Posted by Smash Adams[/QUOTE]

LIAR! Your pants are on fire!

Lizzieyounce

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:de4c54a0-a761-423e-890a-5184f59c7193">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE] BTW - Not all of us Catholics are crazy.
Posted by Wiscisbliss[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Yeppers...

</div>

dmiller9274

Lizzie, FWIW, I really enjoyed reading your posts on this issue. I think you were able to speak well to the catholic stuff, but also had a lot to offer on the subject in general. A lot of times, I think it's hard for people to speak to the beliefs of whatever religion they belong to, with out it coming off as preachy or over the top, but I didn't get that from you at all. 

Girlie1030

You guys are not flaming correctly! 


WTH am I kidding?  I'd want you ladies in my corner any day of the week. 

Nebb

Im watching Girls and this guy just called someone a cuntsatchel. I need to start using this phrase. This seemed like the best place to share this.

Lizzieyounce

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:03612b19-412a-4e01-b739-d3078e850f49">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]Lizzie, FWIW, I really enjoyed reading your posts on this issue. I think you were able to speak well to the catholic stuff, but also had a lot to offer on the subject in general. A lot of times, I think it's hard for people to speak to the beliefs of whatever religion they belong to, with out it coming off as preachy or over the top, but I didn't get that from you at all. 
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Thank you.  I can't judge other people, since I am not perfect myself. I will listen, and advise if asked, but I wouldn't judge someone for not taking my advice. </div><div>
</div><div>Personally, I am pro life...but that's for me. That is my choice. I will not take that choice away from others. </div><div>
</div><div>I just read your post (I'm playing catchup, and this is a P&R anyway as my battery is about to go out, boo.) but I admire your fortitude and your self honesty. Your baby will be truly blessed to have you for it's mother.  

</div>

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:5c18d839-294b-4f83-806f-8a84ba6aef97">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]Im watching Girls and this guy just called someone a cuntsatchel. I need to start using this phrase. This seemed like the best place to share this.
Posted by Nebb[/QUOTE]
Totally the best place for it.  I tried to start an evening thread, but it hasn't showed up for more than like 2 minutes about an hour ago, so why not here?

Nebb

CUNTSATCHEL!!!