Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday

monkeysip

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:a7c39276-9f9f-43b9-8ec2-8f9542c4e564">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : right. because it's not. I'm pregnant. Had I died when my unborn child was a 8-week fetus (hell, when she was a 20-week fetus), she would have died. CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT THE BIOLOGICAL MOM.  Not a separate person, <strong>but rather an extension of my body</strong>. Now? She could likely survive without my body.  So. Now I'd consider her a person.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

Someone failed biology class.  It can't be an extension of you when it has completely different DNA and everything it needs to develop into a full blown adult.  It's just in a different state of development.  Your baby now is still dependent upon others and would die without the proper nutrition and environment.  "Viability" is not only an arbitrary distinction, but it's becoming earlier and earlier with the rise of technology.

I've also seen no one state that abortion should be illegal after viability (which it's not).

AllAboutTheBenjamin

How can a fetus be a person with rights?  They are not fully formed PEOPLE, who LIVE in the WORLD.  They are DEVELOPING into a PERSON who needs to get BORN.

monkeysip

Ok, well I'm abandoning ship.

Don't worry, this isn't a GBCK.  (or perhaps I should say DO worry)

But I think you guys are just as exhausted as me, and I got to run errands.

NuggetBrain

Monkey, I can assure you, if you walked in on some guy raping your daughter or stabbing your husband and there was a baseball bat by the door the last thing going through your mind would be "gee, I should injure him but make sure not to kill him because that's bad.  I don't have the right to decide that he should die.  As he's violently assaulting someone I love." 

Self defense laws exist for a reason, sweetpea.

cheeseandrice

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:2eb93904-1a23-40f6-b507-243205fe8b13">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : Someone failed biology class.  It can't be an extension of you when it has completely different DNA and everything it needs to develop into a full blown adult. <strong> It's just in a different state of development.  Your baby now is still dependent upon others and would die without the proper nutrition and environment.  </strong>"Viability" is not only an arbitrary distinction, but it's becoming earlier and earlier with the rise of technology. I've also seen no one state that abortion should be illegal after viability (which it's not).
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

sweet! Go find me some examples of an 8-week fetus surviving outside the mother's body. Then we'll talk.

RamonaFlowers

How are you not getting this?

If a woman with a 10 week old baby dies, there are ways for the baby to survive. If a woman dies when she's 10 weeks pregnant, the state can't just remove it from her womb and give it to a foster family or a relative to raise it.

Fetus = can't survive without the mother period.

Baby = can survive without the mother, unless you want to drag bullsh!t semantics that wouldn't actually be the case in a real life scenario into it.

specialk84

I support a woman's right to get an abortion for whatever reason she chooses, even if that reason is, "Hey, it's Tuesday."

maratea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:8e0d329c-70f5-466c-8307-8cc012035d3e">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]true, Mara. But it's almost entertaining at this point to see what other self-righteous ignorance will pop out of her 'mouth'.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree.

Monkey- I think you fail to see some of the weakness of your arguments. You ask why our society has outlawed things like murder. Well, for one, pretty sure thou shalt not murder is in the Bible if you want to go the religious route. Second, because the people that these laws protect already have established lives within society. A fetus does not. Sure maybe the parents have started developing a lifestyle that includes a child before the kid is actually born, but the fetus isn't a part of society yet. It's not a contributing member of the world. And these laws were made with the intent of creating and maintaining a functioning society, a society where established (as in, born) citizens could flourish and continue growing their society. If society and its structure could survive without laws prohibiting murder, drug "worlds", etc., then these laws would not have been created. A society CAN survive without laws prohibiting abortion, with laws giving people legal rights to terminate a pregnancy if they so choose. Obviously the legality of abortion hasn't made a huge impact on society or otherwise our world population wouldn't be at 7 billion. 

Smash Adams

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:ae30112d-ed2f-4895-8d10-12d486b38bfc">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday : Well, I wish people would actually address my arguments.  I already gave you biological evidence for why a fetus, even at 8 weeks, is not a parasite.  The problem I have is that NO ONE here has said that they oppose abortion except life of the mother.  <strong>Everyone here has acted like abortion is acceptable for any reason.</strong> You guys are acting like the life of the mother is at stake every time an abortion occurs.  No, it's usually not.  So why do you guys harp on that?  Why is the mother's desire to not have a child trump the child's right to life? And no, I don't think the child's right to life trumps the mother's.  They both have an equal right to life because they are equal human beings.  Human dignity is not dependent upon development.  Believing that it is is both arbitrary and dangerous. 
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]
I think it is acceptable for any reason.  IDGAF why someone wants to abort.  It's their choice.<div>
</div><div>The mother (the living, breathing, independent being) has rights that trump the fetus's.  The end.  The fetus's rights end where the mother's rights begin. </div><div>
</div><div>I'm done talking.  There's no point.</div>

NuggetBrain

Chels - my dad beat the everloving sh*t out of my mom.  And myself.  My very first memory ever is of him choking her by the stairs.  When she finally got up the courage to leave his ass, which her two best friends had been telling her to do for years, they helped her plan, helped her pack and helped her run when he was at work.  They supported her throughout the divorce proceedings and were there every step of the f*cking way.  I am incredibly glad she wasn't stuck with a friend like you.  Because she's said that without them telling her that her getting a divorce was right, she very well might have ended up staying in the relationship even longer.

katiewhompus

Maybe it has changed, but aren't abortions after first tri,which is way before viability, illegal unless it results in imminent harm of mom or fetus ? You don't typically hear of moms carrying a child until 24 weeks and then change their mind and abort

maratea

Alli

acaponi87

All I have to add is that I agree that fetus zombie slaves would not be terribly efficient or productive workers but they would be scary as phuccck.  Nothing scarier in movies than a little creep child. A fetus zombie slave would be the ultimate of that.

And I think it's funny that people still try to debate abortion. You think people would  learn.

Girlie1030

Alli.  Thanks.

VeggieLove1022

I'm so sorry, Alli. 

brandichamberlain

Alli- I'm so sorry you went through that. 

NuggetBrain

Goddamnit Alli you made me cry at my desk.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:dc59547d-376e-44b3-b552-df32a8aaa344">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]Because that's what the law is! It forces society's opinions on others! There's plenty of people who think laundering money, selling drugs, stealing, raping, killing, etc. are perfectly acceptable behaviors.  But we force our beliefs on them that laundering money, selling drugs, stealing, raping, killing are WRONG. Why do we force these beliefs on them?  Because they affect other people.  Because they violate people's rights to not be stolen from, raped, or killed.  Because these things are harmful to society. I don't view abortion any differently because it's still killing an innocent person who didn't ask for death. What do YOU not understand about that?
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

NOW you're sounding like agapecarrie.  Step away from the CW board, she's toxic

bjhubble

I lurk here a lot and would normally never chime in on such a heated debate as a newb.  But whether you DD or not, Alli, thanks for having the courage to share that with us.  And I'm so so sorry you had to go through that.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:64d60f81-d4de-402e-9a48-b123a3e08aad">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]Goddamnit Alli you made me cry at my desk.
Posted by NuggetBrain[/QUOTE]

Me too.

allisong23

I appreciate the sympathy, but I didn't post to make everyone feel bad. I posted to put a real face and a real story that I have come to realize that some people will never understand or imagine. It is easy to say that the women getting abortions are careless, or heartless. That is the farthest thing from the truth. They are women who practiced safe sex, and it failed. They are women who were raped. They are women who never received the proper sex education. They are women who could not afford contraception. They are women that are abused and had no other way out. They are women that cannot afford to raise a child, or the prenatal care that a pregnant women  needs.

Bec20

The cutoff for viability depends where you are.  Canada has no cut off because that would have the same pitfall as the old anti-abortion laws the Supreme Court struck down in the 1980s ("security of the person" - section 7 of the Charter).  You would have to find a quack doctor to do it, but you could technically get an abortion at 39 weeks here.  In reality, they just force you to deliver after a certain point.

I'm a lurker and I know you don't know me, but I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that Alli.  That's terrible and I can't wrap my head around people judging situations like that.

Megbo2012

Alli

LesPaul

{{hugs}} Alli.

cheeseandrice

it really sucks that the two most self-centered, ignorant assholes in this conversation are the two people who pretend to be Christians. sickening really.

NuggetBrain

Girl please, you know I don't have sympathy running through these chocolate veins.

It's not a sympathy cry, it's an angry cry.  I want to punch him, and unless Monkey's response is along the lines of "you're right, I'm sorry, obviously it's not as black and white as I make it out to be" then I want to punch her too.

allisong23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:46f59b15-cb2f-4b3e-938b-3fbbd926a8ec">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]it really sucks that the two most self-centered, ignorant assholes in this conversation are the two people who pretend to be Christians. sickening really.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

I am guessing they won't return either.

texasgurly13

Alli-*hugs* I can't imagine going through that.

I realize I am really late (I just caught up).  But I am going to echo the opinion that some of y'all have that I am not going to dictate what other women do with their bodies or take away their rights to do that.  I wouldn't personally do it, but that's my choice and I'm not going to force it on others.  I had a friend from work that got pregnant unexpectedly and wasn't at all in any place in her personal life to take care of a child.  She confided in me and I talked about it with her, but she ultimately decided that she was going to terminate the pregnancy (she was about 6 weeks along).  I supported her decision because that was ultimately what was best for her.   

ErinG93

Alli, thank you for putting a real story out there. You're brave. Hugs to you, and thanks.

Girlie1030

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_flame-some-shiiit-tuesday?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:a27968be-62b2-4ac3-914d-054ec8ef8b08Post:46f59b15-cb2f-4b3e-938b-3fbbd926a8ec">Re: Flame Some Shiiit Tuesday</a>:
[QUOTE]it really sucks that the two most self-centered, ignorant assholes in this conversation are the two people who pretend to be Christians. sickening really.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

Selective Christianity.  They follow the rules and beliefs that suit their purpose at any given time and conveniently forget the others.