No wanting children and getting married in Catholic Church

afrenchprincess1

Ok question Ladies! I don't want kids well I'm unsure but what if I don't want kids that is what I am thinking. How will this affect me getting married in the Catholic Church? Will they ask if I want to have children and if I answer no will I not be allowed to marry?

agapecarrie

The purpose of marriage is for children. One of the questions previous to the wedding and during the wedding that must be answered positively is "Will you accept children"

A marriage must be free, total, faithful, and fruitful.  Just as Christ's love for the Church. Marriage is an image of the trinity (the love between God the Father and God the Son is so perfect it creates a third being, the Holy Spirit). 

I recommend reading "Good news about sex and marriage" by Christopher West.

A permanent intention against children invalidates it. 

afrenchprincess1

So, you are saying that answering honestly that accepting children is a possibility that I may not consider will not get me married in the church? I googled the book you suggested it has good reviews but I don't know how that has anything to do with how I feel about having children? TIA!

agapecarrie

Yes, I'm saying if that is your intention, your marriage won't be valid. Any attempted marriage that has a permanent intention against children is annulled in a tribunal.  (whether Catholic or not). 

The book has everything to do with how you feel about children. Please please read it. It is a quick fast and easy read. Also "Theology of the body for beginners" by West. 

tmeyer621

You have to be open to having children. Meaning NFP is the only accepted form of birth control and if you have to be open to the possibility of getting pregnant. You don't have to have children to have a valid marriage. However, denying your spouse children is grounds for an annulment

ingeniousidea

The intention to not have children at the time of marriage is grounds for nullity under canon law -- in other words, it's not a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church and can be annulled accordingly.  And if you express that intention to the presiding priest prior to the marriage, I certainly hope that he will tell you he cannot in good faith go forward with the wedding.  The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is meant (among other things) for the raising of a family, so even if you never end up having children due to infertility, etc., you must at least be open to the possibility.

Here's a discussion of a relevant situation that might be interesting: http://forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=34363

I'd second the suggestion to read The Good News About Sex and Marriage.  It does a good job of laying out and explaining the Church's stance on marriage and its purposes.

afrenchprincess1

Ok thanks for the info. It looks like I may have to umm not say that I do not intend on having children so that it will not cause me not to get married in the church. I just don't feel that everybody has to accept children in the matrimony of marriage. So, because I still have great regards and want to get married in the church I will opt to say nothing about itl

Calypso1977

You have to be open to having children. Meaning NFP is the only accepted form of birth control and if you have to be open to the possibility of getting pregnant. You don't have to have children to have a valid marriage. However, denying your spouse children is grounds for an annulment

this is probably the best answer.

remember too that if you lie, your priest might buy it, but God wont.  God will know what is in your heart that day.

But to answer "yes" to the question of "are you open to children and will you accept them lovingly from God" is not necessarily a lie even if you dont want children.  I was very on the fence abotu kids on our wedding day, and for quite awhile after.  However, i knew we planned to practice NFP so we were not artificially preventing pregnancy, and i also knew that if i did get pregnant it wouldnt be the end of the world and that it would have happened for a reason. 

agapecarrie

Please please please do not lie (this is a lie of omission). Please do not use us here to gauge whether you are going to mention anything... I find that insulting. It is also going to invalidate your marriage (whether the priest knows about it or not).

Your "great regards" are really a rejection of church teaching (and this is a really really huge one because this is one that the whole faith is based on). All through scripture, new and old testement, you will see that God's love for the church is imaged through marriage...its the best analogy we have to understand God's love. You will be asked the question directly- its part of the vows at the wedding.

Please read the book. 

Riss91

PP are right.

If you are truly against having children, simply avoiding an audible response to the priest doesn't mean you are still "in the clear". I would tell your priest that this is a topic you are struggling with. Let him guide you (also the books suggested should help). Do not be fraudulent. It hurts our faith to do so.

Remember, God knows all.

caitriona87

Ditto PP's, but just to be clear this is not a question that will just be asked by the priest prior to the wedding in private, it is also asked publicly at the ceremony prior to the vows, "Will you accept children lovingly from God and raise them up according to the law of His Church?"

debbiem56

I believe that when I met with the priest a couple weeks ago for the final paperwork, I had to sign that I would accept children.  It is more than oral and more than just an ommission.

afrenchprincess1

Thanks all! I came here because I do not want to talk to my priest about it because  I don't want to say the "wrong" thing and it causes us problems with getting married. My fiance is of the belief that God is in control and if I don't want to have children then it with be God's wish. However, my fiance would like to have a child if I would accept that in our life. But he is understanding. That's why I love him! As I do believe that it may be God's wish for me to have children it will happen but I don't know if I am accepting of that. I just don't think I want them. But I guess I will have to accept if the situation of pregnancy comes up. I didn't know however that I would be asked at the ceremony about children thanks for the information!

Riss91

I understand not wanting to say the "wrong" thing.

You can say what the priest "wants" to hear, but if it isn't the TRUTH, your marriage isn't "valid". Yes, the Catholic Church may have a piece of paper saying you had the ceremony, but you cannot truly receive the sacrament if you do so out of deception. So, you get your piece of paper and everyone with think you are married according to the Church, but the TRUTH will be that you are not.

"My fiance is of the belief that God is in control and if I don't want to have children then it with be God's wish"

That is NOT the teaching of the Catholic Church. God asks us to be fruitful and multiply. I'm not saying that you have to have children, but if you don't want them, then you aren't eligible for a Catholic marriage, so you should really consider going through with a Catholic ceremony. No matter what the priests knows...

Calypso1977

 However, my fiance would like to have a child if I would accept that in our life.

i personally could never marry someone that wasnt on the same page as me with regard to kids.  it sounds like your FI would like one.  what will happen is that you will have one for him, or he wont have one for you, and then you will both end up resentful and unhappy.

please think about this carefully.  there is no shame in walking away from a marriage (before it happens) over disagreement in this area.   you'll be happier in the long run finding a partner who shares the same family goals as you.

afrenchprincess1

Calypso we (Fiance and I) aren't in disagrement over children. He would *prefer* to have children but since I am mostly against it he said that he will accept that. We have spoken about this many times before. He would like children but he also loves me and knows that marrying me comes with the possibility of not having children. And he said that he would have to accept that if it is to be. Thanks!

Calypso1977

i guarantee you that he thinks you'll change your mind.  ive seen this with a few couples i know.  it doesnt usually end well. 

professorscience

I really, really, really, REALLY want to echo what everyone has said about reading a few books on this topic.  You really sound like you only want to get married in the church out of form, rather than out of love and devotion to her teachings, and that is really not a good thing.

As PPs have said, you can't start off your marriage in a lie.  You and your FI need to have some strong heart-to-heart conversations on this topic, because I know it can ruin a marriage.  FSIL was recently granted an annulment because her ex husband lied about his committment to welcome children into their family and raise them in the church.  It was a horribly painful situation for everyone involved. 

I just think you would benefit from some study.  And some honest conversations with a priest.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_wanting-children-getting-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:e28f60c4-6ea2-442f-b9a6-ae6796eead9ePost:90669b95-5263-409e-8090-29004500fd63">Re: No wanting children and getting married in Catholic Church</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok thanks for the info. It looks like I may have to umm not say that I do not intend on having children so that it will not cause me not to get married in the church. I just don't feel that everybody has to accept children in the matrimony of marriage. So, because I still have great regards and want to get married in the church I will opt to say nothing about itl
Posted by afrenchprincess1[/QUOTE]

Um no.  You don't just lie about your intentions like that before you get married. They will ask you directly if you accept children freely (it's a part of your vows in fact).  To lie would just be terrible.

ETA:
I'm sorry if any of us are coming off as "preachy", but your eternal soul is not something to mess with.  You can't just get married in the Catholic Church because it's beautiful or because it's what you were brought up with.  You should never get married in such a way that goes against what you believe.  I'm not saying you are wrong to not want kids.  I just think you are wrong to not want kids and to be getting married in a Church that firmly believes and teaches that all married people should be open to children.

afrenchprincess

Ok I'm NOT getting married in the Catholic Church for frivoulous reasons like "it's pretty...my church is small and not very nice looking (so there goes that claim) or I want to do some type of show or whatever other reasons people choose. I just want to get married to the man that I love and just because I am not open to children does not mean that my marriage will is not valid! I am a Child of God and I as a child of his I believe that not eveybody was meant to have/want children. I don't understand how being open to children is a "must" requirement for all people wanting to get married. That's just ridicoulous! I said that if that happens that I guess I will have to accept it not what I want but that's what happen and hubby will be all for it and happy! I am not open to children but I will accept them I mean Geez! What else would I do? Ignore them! No! I am not that type of person!
Fiance and I have spoken about this and I asked him several times and he just keeps saying he will be ok. I did feel bad that I felt I was depriving him of something and that it could be a deal breaker but he said he loves me and will accept it if I don't change my mind. I believe him and don't feel we will have problems with that he is not a liar.
So, that is where I am coming from ladies not an evil place but my own place and I just don't understand how reading this book will "change" my openess to children? It may give me more guideliness on the church's teaching but I just don't see the relevance to me. But I will read it!

ingeniousidea

As PPs have said, this is NOT simply an issue of "not bringing it up."  Being open to children is a central and non-negotiable aspect of Church teaching on marriage.  If you have a Catholic wedding, you will be explicitly, directly, and publicly asked if you are willing to have children -- in front of your spouse, the priest, all your friends and family, and most importantly God. (See http://catholicweddinghelp.com/topics/text-rite-of-marriage-mass.htm ) Is it worth it to you to blatantly lie to all of those people simply for the sake of having a wedding in a Catholic Church?

Your priest is trained in counseling couples for marriage and is not going to judge you.  I would urge you to bring this up to him. If you are not willing to discuss this with your priest, please, please don't go forward with a Church wedding.  It's dishonest and will start your marriage with a lie.

I'm sorry if this is coming across as too blunt or harsh, but I cannot stress strongly enough how much I think this is a bad idea.

agapecarrie

You just staed that you don't understand why the church believes that children are part of marriage. They are. That is the whole point. To incarnate (make flesh) the love of 2 people.  The whole purpose of marriage is to beget children, if you deny this purpose, you cannot promise to enter into it validly. Why would you even want to? You are stating that the church's teaching is ridiculous, yet you still want to make promises to her. Marriage is  not "your own place". 

If you are getting married in the church, learning what the church's teachings are about marriage will be relevant to you.

ingeniousidea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_wanting-children-getting-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:e28f60c4-6ea2-442f-b9a6-ae6796eead9ePost:afd60678-851b-4a2c-9f25-6f5115756a17">Re: No wanting children and getting married in Catholic Church</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok I'm NOT getting married in the Catholic Church for frivoulous reasons like "it's pretty...my church is small and not very nice looking (so there goes that claim) or I want to do some type of show or whatever other reasons people choose. I just want to get married to the man that I love and <strong>just because I am not open to children does not mean that my marriage will is not valid</strong>! I am a Child of God and I as a child of his I believe that not eveybody was meant to have/want children. I don't understand how being open to children is a "must" requirement for all people wanting to get married. That's just ridicoulous!
...
 I just don't understand how reading this book will "change" my openess to children? It may give me more guideliness on the church's teaching but I just don't see the relevance to me. But I will read it!
Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]

But that's just it.  According to Catholic teaching, if you are not open to children at the time of the wedding, the marriage is <strong>not valid</strong> in the canonical (the laws of the Church) sense, which is why it can be annulled.  The Church teaches that the purpose of marriage is to bring children into the world, so if you're not willing to do that, you're not willing to really be married in the full sense of the word as the Church understands it.  If you don't wish to accept the Church's understanding of a marriage, you shouldn't enter into one under its rules.

The Church teaches that marriage and children are intimately connected and can't be artificially separated (incidentally, this is the root of the teaching against artificial contraception, as well, but that's a different discussion!).  The book we've recommended might be helpful because it discusses the Catholic understanding of marriage as a whole, and children are an intrinsic and inseparable part of that.

Calypso1977

OP, i didnt say that your FI was a liar.  i'm just saying that people can change ESPECIALLY on this topic.  For all i know, you might change too and decide you really do want kids!  He may say he's ok now, becuase he loves you, but what about in 5 or 10 years when he is older, more mature, his friends and family have kids - he may really want one then, and if you dont, that's going to cause friction. 

i think you have some interesting thoughts, etc.  i think it would benefit you to talk to a priest.  seriously.  he can give you a much higher level of guidance on this than we can.  he can help you to understand church teaching and why it is what it is.

i was on the fence big time when i got married, but was defintiely open to them.  H really wanted them.  as our marriage progressed, i began to really want them.  in the past year we seriously discussed trying this fall.  well guess what, H now is not sure he wants them.  so we are back to on the fence.  but the bottom line is we both went in open and trusting of god to help lead us, and our prevention has all been natural. 

i will honestly tell you that i wish i hadnt entered marriage on the fence about kids.  i wish id known definitively one way or another.  my H and i love each other and we have a decent marriage, but with both of us going back and forth over the past 2.5 years its been somewhat of a stress.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_wanting-children-getting-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:e28f60c4-6ea2-442f-b9a6-ae6796eead9ePost:afd60678-851b-4a2c-9f25-6f5115756a17">Re: No wanting children and getting married in Catholic Church</a>:
<p class="MsoNormal">I just want you to know that the reason everyone is chiming in here is because they are trying to prevent you from harming yourself, your future husband and because they are trying to protect their faith from being intentionally misused. What matters is that you are an honest person that does the right thing. When you stand before Him on judgment day, none of us can help you. We can help you now. </p> <p class="MsoNormal">[QUOTE]Ok I'm NOT getting married in the Catholic Church for frivoulous reasons like "it's pretty...my church is small and not very nice looking (so there goes that claim) or I want to do some type of show or whatever other reasons people choose. I just want to get married to the man that I love and just because I am not open to children does not mean that my marriage will is not validPosted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]</p> <p class="MsoNormal">I completely understand that you aren’t using the Church for a pretty backdrop, but you have to acknowledge the doctrine. You are right that your marriage can be a “valid” civil marriage, or “valid” non-Catholic Christian marriage. But it CANNOT be a “valid” Catholic marriage if you cannot honestly say that you are accepting of children. That’s just the law of the Church. We’re not trying to ruin things for you – we’re passing along factual information. If you want to have a valid Catholic marriage, those are the rules, whether you like them or not.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">[QUOTE] I am a Child of God and I as a child of his I believe that not eveybody was meant to have/want children. I don't understand how being open to children is a "must" requirement for all people wanting to get married. That's just ridicoulousPosted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]</p> <p class="MsoNormal">It’s fine to believe what you believe, but that doesn’t mean that is what the Catholic Church believes. <span> </span>And it’s not okay to ignore the teaching of the Church just because it doesn’t suit you. If you can’t make the required vows for a valid Catholic marriage, then you likely shouldn’t be getting married in the Church. Think about it: When a witness is sworn-in in a courtroom, they are asked “do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,so help you God?”. They don’t ask “Do you swear to only tell the truth that suits you?”. <span> </span>If the witness is lying, they are lying. It’s called perjury. On earth, you can get away with perjury, or you can get caught and go to jail. In Catholicism, whether the people on earth know you are lying or not, God knows. And the repercussions are eternal. It’s not something you want to risk.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">[QUOTE] I said that if that happens that I guess I will have to accept it not what I want but that's what happen and hubby will be all for it and happy! I am not open to children but I will accept them I mean Geez! What else would I do? Ignore them! No! I am not that type of person! Fiance and I have spoken about this and I asked him several times and he just keeps saying he will be ok. I did feel bad that I felt I was depriving him of something and that it could be a deal breaker but he said he loves me and will accept it if I don't change my mind. I believe him and don't feel we will have problems with that he is not a liar. Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">Accepting children from God doesn’t mean “If I have an “accidental pregnancy” I promise not to toss the baby to the curb”. It means that you will not prevent reproduction intentionally without severe cause for doing so. </p> <p class="MsoNormal">Just be careful, because this is a decision you make now, but 20-30 years from now, when it might be too late, you or your fiancé could regret the decision. Even if he thought he would be fine without children, what happens when you're 60 years old, with no family and he's sitting across the table wishing he was surrounded with his kids? It might not happen - but it's a huge risk to take. I wouldn’t be able to look at my husband in the face if I knew I prevented him from obtaining such a big dream of his.</p>

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_wanting-children-getting-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:e28f60c4-6ea2-442f-b9a6-ae6796eead9ePost:afd60678-851b-4a2c-9f25-6f5115756a17">Re: No wanting children and getting married in Catholic Church</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok I'm NOT getting married in the Catholic Church for frivoulous reasons like "it's pretty...my church is small and not very nice looking (so there goes that claim) or I want to do some type of show or whatever other reasons people choose. I just want to get married to the man that I love and just because I am not open to children does not mean that my marriage will is not valid! I am a Child of God and I as a child of his I believe that not eveybody was meant to have/want children.<strong> I don't understand how being open to children is a "must" requirement for all people wanting to get married.</strong> That's just ridicoulous! I said that if that happens that I guess I will have to accept it not what I want but that's what happen and hubby will be all for it and happy! I am not open to children but I will accept them I mean Geez! What else would I do? Ignore them! No! I am not that type of person! Fiance and I have spoken about this and I asked him several times and he just keeps saying he will be ok. I did feel bad that I felt I was depriving him of something and that it could be a deal breaker but he said he loves me and will accept it if I don't change my mind. I believe him and don't feel we will have problems with that he is not a liar. So, that is where I am coming from ladies not an evil place but my own place and I just don't understand how reading this book will "change" my openess to children? It may give me more guideliness on the church's teaching but I just don't see the relevance to me. But I will read it!
Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]

if you read my post, I never once said that.  I don't think any marriage is less valid than another.  however, you are being incredibly deceitful by trying to lie your way into a Catholic ceremony.  If you don't 100% agree with it, why do you want to get married in a Catholic ceremony anyway?  Why not something else like Lutheran or something?
In the eyes of the Catholic church, your marriage is not valid if you go into it with false pretenses like that.  It sounds to me like you want to have your cake and eat it too.  You want to be marrie din the Catholic church and you want them to find it valid, however you don't want to abide by its teachings.  That's not how it works.

Why do you want to be married in the Catholic church if you don't believe its teachings?  I'm not saying you're wront to not believe it, you just are being very hypocritical right now.  It's like going to a synagogue, going through all the actions, but in your heart believing Jesus is your savior. 

WestCoastGirl05

Rather then feeling like you are lying to a priest and to God by omitting the issue, or feeling like you are lying to yourself by giving into something that may not necessarily be what you want. I would just not get married in a Catholic Church. I am sure this is not going to be the popular answer, but God dwells in other churches. Just a thought.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_wanting-children-getting-married-catholic-church?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:e28f60c4-6ea2-442f-b9a6-ae6796eead9ePost:917677a5-7a91-4d02-be6b-9f34471e2fb0">Re: No wanting children and getting married in Catholic Church</a>:
[QUOTE]Rather then feeling like you are lying to a priest and to God by omitting the issue, or feeling like you are lying to yourself by giving into something that may not necessarily be what you want. I would just not get married in a Catholic Church.<strong> I am sure this is not going to be the popular answer, but God dwells in other churches. Just a thought.</strong>
Posted by briannamarie87[/QUOTE]

Not as unpopular as you think :) Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

agapecarrie

Everyone keeps stating "valid in the eyes of the church". I think this needs to be clarified.

Christ gave the power to the Church--under the headship of Peter, the first pope to bind and loose. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven".

We have to remember there is actually a spiritual bond created that God recognizes when 2 people get married. When both are baptized, they receive grace from a sacrament.  When ANY marriage (including those of non-Catholics) go through the annulment process, the tribunal discerns whether they were open to children. This is considered a validity point for ALL marriages, not just for proper form of a Catholic marriage. 

This is one thing that drives me a bit nuts on these boards (not cw) when people say the first legal wedding is the real wedding and the couple is REALLY married then and later its a renewal, (and they will group convalidation in with this). This is not true for Catholics. The real and actual marriage--that God seals, is the one that happens in the church according to form for Catholics.  The word convalidation means "along with" which means that the priest is not doing anything with the legal aspect of the marriage, just witnessing the actual spiritual marriage.   This is a long aside, and I'm sorry for sidetracking, but I think it needed to be said in order to state this...

It is impossible for someone to enter into a Spiritually valid marriage anywhere (Catholic or non) with a permanent intention against children. Whether the piece of paper from the government says they are married or not does not a marriage make. As I said before, a tribunal will look at non-Catholic marriages applying for annulment and this has to be there for their marriage to be considered valid.

Another aside, yet relevant. The spiritual plane..actual truth and reality, is not necessarily seen or proven. The truth is natural divine law...we can reject that it exists (like gravity), but it doesn't make it any less true. 

Having said all this, I know many people do not believe these things are true--for I'm glad there is freedom to do so. But so many of these people have rejected it without really researching it. I use to reject it, then I studied, and learned that it didn't make sense any other way. This is for our benefit...God's plan and design is sooo beautiful and really elevates us to Him....Creating another human being is a power that God has given us that is most like him... I mean he could have given us power to create a mountain, or another animal...but he gave us the power to take part in another eternal soul! A person that will exist for all eternity...to be able to give a name to the love between a couple and have that love be in the flesh. 

Melissa519

I have a question, OP.  Why DO you want to get married in a Catholic church?  What role does your faith play in your day to day life?  Maybe exploring the answers to those questions will provide some clarification for you...

lalaith50

Sorry if you feel like you are being jumped on by everyone, but the reason for that is because this is such a SERIOUS situation, which you seem to think that you can ignore by lying to the priest and the entire community at your wedding ceremony.

If you do not want children, (and you seem rather reluctant to study it further---you have said you will read a book that was recommended, but you also sound pretty convinced that reading a book will not change your mind; demonstrating that you aren't even OPEN to the idea of changing your mind and learning other explanations for this teaching of the Church!) so if you do not want children, then you should not get married in the Catholic Church, since clearly your vision of what defines a "marriage" is different than that of the Catholic Church. 

And I am extremely bothered and offended by the fact that you have come on here and asked us if the Catholic Church will marry people who say they aren't open to children, and now it sounds as if you are now planning to use the information that we have given you to LIE about such a serious matter.