WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not

musicalsunlight

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:83f2888e-bec9-4e0c-89c8-4e9469de79af">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't blame a family for what another adult does, but on another forum I'm on I read a post where the OP had a conversation with a coworker that went like this: Co-worker says, "My youngest is ambidextrous." And I said, "Wow. He must be crazy smart." She said,<strong> "Oh, he is, but he tortures animals </strong>and like to start fires. I've been told that I'm one deviation away from having a serial killer." And just sort of laughed it off. A bunch of other people chimed in relating stories where people they know have kids with warning signs that refuse to go to family therapy. Usually because of denial (there's nothing wrong with my kid...) or laughing it off. I'd say this sort of thing is neglectful, despite there being no outright abuse present.
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]



What the fuuuuck.

musicalsunlight

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:18427ee1-76c5-4cc3-9a12-2eca88749935">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]Not jumping to conclusions by any stretch of the imagination.  Just stating an opinion (unpopular that it may be) that if I child I had raised in a loving, nurturing home, had gone off the deep end so far away from what he had learned growing up.  It would be extremely hard to rationalize in my head that I did or didn't do something that caused them to go to such an extreme.  I feel for the parents of the shooter because I assume he was raised to realize this was not normal behavior.  I could be wrong, I have been wrong before.
Posted by ski2play[/QUOTE]

I can see this and agree with it but it isn't the majority of parents of criminals. Unfortunately.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I would be going out of my mind if my kid tortured animals and started fires.  I'd be throwing his ass into some serious therapy.  For real.

I mean, if someone is going to be truly fucked up, there is always going to be the patient that therapy will never work for, etc.  But I'd be damned if I didn't try, kwim?

midgetthemighty

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:074b2c75-3e42-4320-912d-2896f8f88e4c">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I just think you can still be mentally ill without being able to plead insanity. I hate how abused the plea is.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 100%. It's been used so much it almost feels like a scapegoat anymore.

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:83f2888e-bec9-4e0c-89c8-4e9469de79af">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't blame a family for what another adult does, but on another forum I'm on I read a post where the OP had a conversation with a coworker that went like this: Co-worker says, "My youngest is ambidextrous." And I said, "Wow. He must be crazy smart." She said, "Oh, he is, but he tortures animals and like to start fires. I've been told that I'm one deviation away from having a serial killer." And just sort of laughed it off. A bunch of other people chimed in relating stories where people they know have kids with warning signs that refuse to go to family therapy. Usually because of denial (there's nothing wrong with my kid...) or laughing it off. I'd say this sort of thing is neglectful, despite there being no outright abuse present.
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'll agree that if a parent talks about those sort of things, and doesn't seek medical mental help for their children, then it is neglectful. In this case, it's been less than a week. We know next to nothing about anyone in this case. I just hate when people hear of someone doing something heinous, the immediate reaction of some people is, "Where were the parents? How did they miss the warning signs?" I just don't think it's fair to leap to the conclusion that the parents are at fault without knowing all of the facts or seeing all of the evidence. It's kind of like the whole innocent until proven guilty. Except this trial (the one of the parents) takes place on the social/public stage, and not in a courtroom.

willywally5

I dunno WFL. If H brings me a fountain Diet Dr. Pepper, I will be elated. Didn't wake up 'til 11. We stayed up late talking and consoling tender-hearted YoungSon about his fish. Sigh. 

Irritation: that I still have acne at 41. Need to make an appointment for a treatment before DD's wedding. They are super effective but suck. And I look like someone smacked me in the face for about three days afterward. 

ski2play

I saw the Grudge as an adult and I am still afraid of pulling up my covers.

Habs2Hart

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:83f2888e-bec9-4e0c-89c8-4e9469de79af">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I wouldn't blame a family for what another adult does, but on another forum I'm on I read a post where the OP had a conversation with a coworker that went like this: Co-worker says, "My youngest is ambidextrous." And I said, "Wow. He must be crazy smart." She said, "<strong>Oh, he is, but he tortures animals</strong> and like to start fires. I've been told that I'm one deviation away from having a serial killer." And just sort of laughed it off. A bunch of other people chimed in relating stories where people they know have kids with warning signs that refuse to go to family therapy. Usually because of denial (there's nothing wrong with my kid...) or laughing it off. I'd say this sort of thing is neglectful, despite there being no outright abuse present.
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]

Steffi's brother?

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:4a04e70e-436a-4bbe-8861-c774ffabf01c">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm irritated with the sue happy nature of our society.  Not saying this guy doesn't have extreme trauma, but come the fluck on?  It's been a week and the lawsuits are already rolling in. <a href="http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-holmes-lawsuit-shooting/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-holmes-lawsuit-shooting/</a>
Posted by gurrlballa10[/QUOTE]

Oh FLOG!
The theater is the only one I could MAYBE see (but I still disagree that they are at fault)

But the docs and WARNER BROTHERS?  If she wins against WB, it could literally change the face of Hollywood.  I doubt she will, but people have been awarded money for weirder ish.

calixtine

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:a5ce9d25-1a9b-4cb8-a69f-0b11d2a9344f">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I didn't get the government stuff either Jess, but I do NOW, hence why it's kinda scary now, lol.  A friend of mine though was literally terrified of ET.  Just mentioning ET = freakout. Also calix, I am pretty sure I saw Poltergeist as a little kid too.  Is that the one with Carol Anne?  I am pretty sure it was on TV at my home-day care.  The kids ran around the house yelling "CAROL ANNE" and jumping out at each other trying to scare each other.  Sigh.  Childhood.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

Yep, that is the one.  That movie is so freaking creepy.  Getting sucked in to tvs and attacked by trees and shiiit.

mkrupar

Thanks for the creepy image Ski.

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:f9bf305a-935b-4890-b3dc-8deac69b0334">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]I would be going out of my mind if my kid tortured animals and started fires.  I'd be throwing his ass into some serious therapy.  For real. I mean, if someone is going to be truly fucked up, there is always going to be the patient that therapy will never work for, etc.  But I'd be damned if I didn't try, kwim?
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]
Agreed, and that's the right approach to take, IMO. But I guess what I'm getting at is, how do we know if the shooter's family falls into this category or the category that would turn the other cheek? If they're the latter I wouldn't be willing to feel much sympathy. But I don't think we have enough info to know that either way. Again, unless I missed something in the news.

Anyway, that thread I mentioned on the other forum took place before the shooting, and it was the first thing I thought of when I started seeing the sympathetic comments.

mkrupar

Cfas I took it as coworker was serious.

JessAndTrav

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:1476b9cb-30e0-4f5f-a15b-ef85bdb46908">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not : Steffi's brother?
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]

Habs, ftw.
<a href="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/images/store/2/6/d2c9f594-cb74-456e-b619-bcb92a4f9f70.large.jpg" title="Click to view a larger photo" class="PhotoLink"> <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/images/store/2/6/d2c9f594-cb74-456e-b619-bcb92a4f9f70.medium.jpg" alt="" /></a>


If my kid was torturing animals, I would immediately seek out some kind of therapy.

The story I mentioned earlier about the grandkid killing his grandparents...he tortured animals as a kid.

baystateapple

Daff, that is seriously fuuucked.

The Weslyan shooter got the insanity plea.  He didn't come off it well though.  He ended up in Whiting Institute at Connecticut Valley Hospital (the hospital for the mentally ill).  It's a building of the hospital that's designed for the criminally insane.  Think "Silence of the Lambs" only less dark and ridiculous.  He'll be there for the rest of his life.  If that's what it means to "get off" on the insanity plea, I am okay with that.

ski2play

Sorry, MK, I am not a fan of scary movies either.  Heck I cry during some Disney movies, Lion King comes to mind. 

mkrupar

That lawsuit kind of makes me ill. HTH is WB supposed to know that someone is going to shoot up a theater showing a dark, violent films? How are they in any way responsible for this person's actions. It's reaching IMO.

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:92d3c4d1-684e-450e-bf43-89de9a09161e">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]Hold the phone ... Was she serious, Daff? Cos that's royally fvcked up.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]
As far as I know.

midgetthemighty

I absolutely love the Poltergeist movies and even did as a child. Every single time we went to the movie rental store, I'd ask if we could rent one of them.

mkrupar

Didn't the woman who shot her preacher husband in the face with a rifle plead insanity because of abuse get released recently?

gurrlballa10

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:67129043-b6cb-4962-b1ab-0dc43f777c31">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]Didn't the woman who shot her preacher husband in the face with a rifle please insanity because of abuse get released recently?
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]

I *believe* they used the battered woman's defense.

Habs2Hart

I find it ironic he is suing WB for producing a movie that he paid extra to go see at a midnight premiere... ya. 

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:f7cadc37-8c7c-455e-b425-883d2e4c161b">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not : Agreed, and that's the right approach to take, IMO. But I guess what I'm getting at is, how do we know if the shooter's family falls into this category or the category that would turn the other cheek? If they're the latter I wouldn't be willing to feel much sympathy. But I don't think we have enough info to know that either way. Again, unless I missed something in the news. Anyway, that thread I mentioned on the other forum took place before the shooting, and it was the first thing I thought of when I started seeing the sympathetic comments.
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]


Oh yeah, there is no way we can know for sure right NOW.  I'm sure as the investigation goes on and the case gets to trial stuff will come out?  From what I can tell (from like, a 60 second newspiece on the stuff) is that he grew up in a nice, middle class family that went to church every Sunday, he was smart, got good grades, and everyone thought he was a nice kid.  At first blush, I feel absolutely horrible for his family.  But yeah depending on what comes out about his parents I may feel differently.

I'm never one to jump and judge parents right away.  Unless they are complete twats, which many parents are :)

Gotta run out on assignment, bbl.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:67129043-b6cb-4962-b1ab-0dc43f777c31">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]Didn't the woman who shot her preacher husband in the face with a rifle plead insanity because of abuse get released recently?
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]


I am not sure she ever went to jail, tbh

[Deleted User]

On the flip side of what I've said, I will say that my first thought was "what a fucking piece of shite" etc. rather than "what did the parents do wrong?" I definitely think it's possible to raise a dud without doing anything wrong. And if that turns out to be the case, the family would have my sympathy. I just think it's too soon to tell either way.

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:01311881-b58b-448c-96f6-7011b85e4ac7">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not : I'm behind and trying to catch up, but what did you think Kroops?
Posted by EaglesBride2012[/QUOTE]

I actually liked the book. There was a lot more information in there than was ever seen in the media. Which is ironic since some of the book focuses on the media's botched coverage of the shooting. It was interesting to see the relationship of the two shooters, their actual initial plan (which, had it worked, would have killed many more people), and the aftermath in the city after what happened.

Apparently the same guy that made the 15 crosses for the Columbine victims made the crosses for the Aurora victims. In Columbine his crosses created controversy because the dad of one of the victims didn't think crosses should have been made for the two shooters. The guy also just does this for publicity apparently.

musicalsunlight

Yeah the battered women's defense is pretty contentious. My crim law prof ripped it to shreds when we studied it.

willywally5

If my kid was torturing/killing animals and setting fires, his/her ass would be hauled to therapy. Of course, my kid bawled for an hour last night because his tetra fish died, so there's that. 

Allowing a child who has obvious problems to just continue without intervention is neglectful. 

I don't think we have enough info yet to judge if the Aurora shooter's parents did or didn't do their part. (Although, admittedly, I haven't watched much about it in the 18 hours, so maybe I've missed something.) I did hear a statement from Holmes'  attorney saying his parents were concerned the death penalty would be sought. Someone tried to twist that into his parents not thinking he did it or deserved it and the lawyer basically said he is their SON, of course they are concerned about his living or dying. 

Assuming they were decent parents and either were 1) unaware of their adult son's mental state or  2) were aware and tried to get him help, they are still human beings and are probably really hurting. If they knew and did nothing, then perhaps they are not worthy of sympathy. 

JessAndTrav

Very seldom do I think that the insanity plea is legit.

When Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children in the bathtub, she wasn't found guilty by reason of insanity, but for her, I think it was real. Her husband kept leaving her at home with the kids, knowing that she wasn't mentally stable.

I actually blame her husband more than her, because the doctor advised that she not be left alone with the kids, because she kept trying to commit suicide, and her husband didn't follow his advice.

musicalsunlight

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_wfl-opinions-unpop-or-not-irritations-irrational-or-not?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:18c8bb11-ca6b-405f-ad82-0eba77530d76Post:fbf1dff1-a6bb-4f1d-8371-185648d0d3e9">Re: WFL? Opinions - Unpop or Not, Irritations - Irrational or Not</a>:
[QUOTE]If my kid was torturing/killing animals and setting fires, his/her ass would be hauled to therapy. Of course, my kid bawled for an hour last night because his tetra fish died, so there's that.  Allowing a child who has obvious problems to just continue without intervention is neglectful.  I don't think we have enough info yet to judge if the Aurora shooter's parents did or didn't do their part. (Although, admittedly, I haven't watched much about it in the 18 hours, so maybe I've missed something.) I did hear a statement from Holmes'  attorney saying his parents were concerned the death penalty would be sought. <strong>Someone tried to twist that into his parents not thinking he did it or deserved it</strong> and the lawyer basically said he is their SON, of course they are concerned about his living or dying.  Assuming they were decent parents and either were 1) unaware of their adult son's mental state or  2) were aware and tried to get him help, they are still human beings and are probably really hurting. If they knew and did nothing, then perhaps they are not worthy of sympathy. 
Posted by willywally5[/QUOTE]

Oh FFS. Give me a break people.