Black tie optional

Jacky225

Can I put Black Tie Optional on the reception card in my invite for a Friday night wedding?  My groomsmen will be in tuxedos as will some of my guests I am sure (the "more important ones" like my godfather, close cousins and uncles, etc).  My venue is very elegant and I want to make sure people are dressed in at least a suit- they do not by any means need to rent a tux but I want to make sure people are in proper attire for my venue even though its a Friday night.  I am mostly worried about my FI family that is not from the area we are getting married in.  They are used to more casual weddings and I have made mention of how fancy/formal/over the top NY/NJ weddings are to my FMIL but not sure if that will get the point across to everyone else.  But I dont want to sound snobby since its a Friday night wedding which I know is usually less formal. 

annakb8

Please don't. As a guest, I really hate black tie optional. I never know what to wear and neither does my H. If he shows up in a tuxedo will he be the only one besides the WP wearing one? If he opts with a suit will everyone else be in tuxedos? What if I wear a cocktail dress and show up to find everyone else is in a floor legnth gown?

If you really want a black tie wedding stop beating around the bush and put black tie on the invitation. If you don't don't say anything at all about attire. I think making your guests wade through the confusion that is "black tie optional" is rude. 

Mrs.B6302007

Suits /= black tie (at least in my circle).
No on the black tie optional request.

tenofcups4me

I'm a fan of black tie optional, used that phrasing for my first wedding, and am accustomed to black tie optional weddings (it makes perfect sense to me -- if you have a tux, wear it; if you don't, you can rent one or just wear a nice dark suit).

But it doesn't sound like that's what your wedding is -- what it does not mean is wear a suit and it sounds like that's all you're after. If that's the case, I'd continue to spread the word by word of mouth to his family and hope they get the point.

Elinetrouwt

A black tie is always optional, unless you put 'black tie forbidden' on the invite.

mica178

I'm with Anna -- I hate "black tie optional."  Do full black tie, or just let people use their own judgment to figure out what to wear.

Your reception venue and time should indicate appropriate dress code (nighttime, elegant venue) to the discerning guest, as will the formality of your invitation.  Additionally, you and/or your FI can hint to FI's family about the formality.

You should not, however, by print or word, dictate how people should dress.

lenergyrlah

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:db3a64bd-ab6e-4619-a878-dba50cba3572">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]A black tie is always optional, unless you put 'black tie forbidden' on the invite.
Posted by Elinetrouwt[/QUOTE]

<div>LOL!</div>

Jacky225

Thanks for your advice everyone.  I am not sure if its a NY/NJ thing and noticed most of you have other states under your names.  I have seen black tie optional numerous times just cannot remember if any were on Friday night.  I am not having a black tie wedding but do not want people showing up in just slacks and a shirt.  I know I should not dictate what they wear but I do not think its too much to ask people to wear suits.  To me, black tie optional means there will be people very dressed up.

Meg1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:dbfba0fd-dabb-43aa-b5d1-9afef384065a">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks for your advice everyone.  I am not sure if its a NY/NJ thing and noticed most of you have other states under your names.  I have seen black tie optional numerous times just cannot remember if any were on Friday night.  I am not having a black tie wedding but do not want people showing up in just slacks and a shirt.  I know I should not dictate what they wear but I do not think its too much to ask people to wear suits.  To me, black tie optional means there will be people very dressed up.
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]

So you know that you should not dictate what people wear, but you think you should be able to ask people to wear suits?

Logic fail.

Edit: Why is this centered?

kalpi108

I'm from NY now and grew up a stone's throw from the South Jersey area. I don't think that makes it normal to dictate your guests' attire unless you're providing a black tie event. As Liatris pointed out, that includes a fully stocked bar all night, a seated 3 or 4 course meal with tableside service, and a live band. If you want your guests to go all out with their clothing, the hosts have to go all out for the event. The region you're from doesn't mean you get to just say "dress like it's black tie even if it's not really" just because you want people in suits. 

PPs have given good suggestions. Use fancy invitations, use word of mouth to spread around that most guys will be wearing suits, and then relax and enjoy your wedding day without trying to micromanage every single person's attire. I've only ever had black tie written on one invitation and it was for an NYC wedding at the Pierre where it was a true black tie affair; they went all. out. So it made sense for them to ask that we dress the part for such an event. If it's not black tie, you don't get to tell people to dress like it's black tie. And I agree that the "optional" is just confusing and unnecessarily stressful for your guests. Don't discount people's advice because of the state listed under their name.

redheadfsu

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:dbfba0fd-dabb-43aa-b5d1-9afef384065a">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks for your advice everyone.  I am not sure if its a NY/NJ thing and noticed most of you have other states under your names.  I have seen black tie optional numerous times just cannot remember if any were on Friday night.  <strong>I am not having a black tie wedding but do not want people showing up in just slacks and a shirt.</strong>  I know I should not dictate what they wear but I do not think its too much to ask people to wear suits.  To me, black tie optional means there will be people very dressed up.
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]

If you are not having a black tie wedding, do not put any dress code on the invite.
As a guest I would basically dress black tie if I got black tie optional & then be pissed at you for making me spend money to be OVER dressed.

Just make your invites very formal if you are worried. 99% people know to wear a suit/formal wear to an evening wedding, no matter if it is a weekday or not.
</div>

Jacky225

Okay wow I do not need to be attacked.  If you RE READ my original post I was worried if I put the black tie optional on my invite that it would sound snobby.  Thanks for all your help and suggestions but definitely do not need to be attacked by you.  I simply asked a question.  Not everyone from my FI family knows that they should wear suits nor is it really logical to call up 100 people from his family to say "wear a suit" that is even worse than suggesting it on the invite. 

MyUserName1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:1e8accaf-b8f3-45ea-9819-03fcdf2a316f">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Okay wow I do not need to be attacked.  If you RE READ my original post I was worried if I put the black tie optional on my invite that it would sound snobby.  Thanks for all your help and suggestions but definitely do not need to be attacked by you.  I simply asked a question.  Not everyone from my FI family knows that they should wear suits nor is it really logical to call up 100 people from his family to say "wear a suit" that is even worse than suggesting it on the invite. 
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]

No one attacked you.

Chill the eff out.

telling you not to put black tie optional on your invitation is not attacking.

No one called you names or was even a little rude.

mkgrover

I guess this is one of those cases of "attacking = not validating a bad idea", huh?

OP, listen to PP- they know what they're talking about.  On all counts.

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:1e8accaf-b8f3-45ea-9819-03fcdf2a316f">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Okay wow I do not need to be attacked.  If you RE READ my original post I was worried if I put the black tie optional on my invite that it would sound snobby.  Thanks for all your help and suggestions but definitely do not need to be attacked by you.  I simply asked a question.  Not everyone from my FI family knows that they should wear suits nor is it really logical to call up 100 people from his family to say "wear a suit" that is even worse than suggesting it on the invite. 
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]

No one attacked you, you probably just feel that way because no one agreed with you.

And even then, how would it really affect you if someone came in just slacks and a polo?  I'm just not understanding why you are even putting ANY thought into how your guests dress.  My H's grandpa came in jeans, tshirt, tattered jacket and baseball cap that said 'grandpa' on it.  I assure you it did not ruin my wedding, nor did I even notice it until people posted pictures on FB the following day. 

So really, it sounds snobby to tell anyone, in any form (on your invite, by phone, or even word of mouth in this case) what to wear.  You can want people to wear a suit till the cow comes home, but you can't make them.

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:1fa82cc3-cdc3-47c7-9173-1f2d50e29c51">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Have you BEEN to a wedding on your FI's side of the family?  Was it a formal event and they all showed up in jeans and ratty t-shirts?  If so, you should get the word out that it's a more fancy affair.  <strong> Believe me, people from out of the area still dress up in suits for weddings.</strong>  I've seen it with my own eyes!  
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

That's not possible, because anyone that's not from NYC is a red neck hick who couldn't possibly figure out how to dress themselves for a wedding...

MyUserName1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:33d0b365-b454-4c3f-8d16-420d34bb0e9c">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : That's not possible, because anyone that's not from NYC is a red neck hick who couldn't possibly figure out how to dress themselves for a wedding...
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]

I mean, gorsh.  I live in North Cackalacky, so I was jess gonna git me some denim cutoffs and an old wife beater instead of buying a dress for my wedding. 

KellyBrian2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:0d6a1a7a-0b87-48a6-8c88-03264d62584f">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : I mean, gorsh.  I live in North Cackalacky, so I was jess gonna git me some denim cutoffs and an old wife beater instead of buying a dress for my wedding. 
Posted by MyUserName1[/QUOTE]

Wait... you mean that's <em>not</em> what most brides outside of NJ/NY do?!

Damn. I guess I need to return my cutoffs and wife beater... *stomps feet*

Jacky225

Mature

MyUserName1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:ba205ee2-fcea-4342-ae6c-7912c20addfc">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Wait... you mean that's not what most brides outside of NJ/NY do?! Damn. I guess I need to return my cutoffs and wife beater... *stomps feet*
Posted by KellyBrian2013[/QUOTE]

nah.  No one outside jersey will know better.  you're cool.

Jacky225

Thought this was the etiquette board not the comedy hour. 

MyUserName1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:9cc75cbf-17df-41ce-8762-02cccaf28777">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Thought this was the etiquette board not the comedy hour. 
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]

two for one deal!

I'm here all week, enjoy the buffet.

mkgrover

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:7d3c284d-25a9-464d-ba16-ee5b6ed4a0d9">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : I was actually pretty shocked to see my uncle in nice clothes (possibly a suit, I can't remember) at a wedding recently.   So, even my slightly red-neck uncle from <strong>Bumblefuuuck PA</strong> knows to wear suits at weddings.  Your faith in humanity can be restored with this knowledge, OP.  
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Hey yaga, how far out in Bumblefuuuck PA are we talking?  If he's from far enough out, that might be classified as a minor miracle ;)</div><div>
</div><div>(Disclaimer: I'm originally from PA, so no offense to any of the PA ladies :)</div>

redheadfsu

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:1e8accaf-b8f3-45ea-9819-03fcdf2a316f">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Okay wow I do not need to be attacked.  <strong>If you RE READ my original post I was worried if I put the black tie optional on my invite that it would sound snobby.</strong>  Thanks for all your help and suggestions but definitely do not need to be attacked by you.  I simply asked a question.  Not everyone from my FI family knows that they should wear suits nor is it really logical to call up 100 people from his family to say "wear a suit" that is even worse than suggesting it on the invite. 
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]

Well if you are doing it because you think your  FI's family is dumb & doesn't know how to dress...yes it is snotty & bratty to put it on the invite. and snobby.

mkgrover

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:b6cf749c-db57-4d07-805b-ff1693a3a138">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Upper Bucks County, so not too much of a miracle.  (Quakertown area.)
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]

<div>That falls into nearly a miracle territory ;)</div>

Karen's MOH

I'm from the NY/NJ area and I have been invited to a number of weddings that did say "Black tie optional". I personally realize that it means, hey, if you have a tuxedo, here is a chance to wear it, if not, wear your suit. However, at the most recent Black Tie Optional wedding we went to (on a Friday night, no less) a couple of my guy friends got into an argument about what it means-- one, who owns a tux, said all the guys should be wearing tuxes; the other got all mad and was upset because he was wearing a nice linen suit since it was a summer wedding and said it was OPTIONAL, not required. My point is, it's confusing. And, with the exception of a handful of guys in tuxedos, everyone was in pretty much the same clothes they were to every wedding, pretty cocktail dresses on the girls and nice suits, mostly, for the guys. 

That said, I take your point about people not knowing to dress up. I know someone who thought "nice" shorts and button up short sleeve shirt were appropriate for my sister's evening, but not black tie, wedding (his wife talked him out of it). And I have a friend who's "Florida relatives" (her words, not mine!) came in shorts and t shirts to her wedding, but then, it was at 11 am on a tues, so... 

Sounds like you know it isn't really correct, but if you want to do it anyway, it's your wedding. Probably the only people who will really notice are brides who got married recently or will soon! 

KellyBrian2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:719f1611-d4d8-48a5-a42d-af391428379d">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm from the NY/NJ area and I have been invited to a number of weddings that did say "Black tie optional". I personally realize that it means, hey, if you have a tuxedo, here is a chance to wear it, if not, wear your suit. However, at the most recent Black Tie Optional wedding we went to (on a Friday night, no less) a couple of my guy friends got into an argument about what it means-- one, who owns a tux, said all the guys should be wearing tuxes; the other got all mad and was upset because he was wearing a nice linen suit since it was a summer wedding and said it was OPTIONAL, not required. My point is, it's confusing. And, with the exception of a handful of guys in tuxedos, everyone was in pretty much the same clothes they were to every wedding, pretty cocktail dresses on the girls and nice suits, mostly, for the guys.  That said, I take your point about people not knowing to dress up. I know someone who thought "nice" shorts and button up short sleeve shirt were appropriate for my sister's evening, but not black tie, wedding (his wife talked him out of it). And I have a friend who's "Florida relatives" (her words, not mine!) came in shorts and t shirts to her wedding, but then, it was at 11 am on a tues, so...  <strong>Sounds like you know it isn't really correct, but if you want to do it anyway, it's your wedding</strong>. Probably the only people who will really notice are brides who got married recently or will soon! 
Posted by Karen's MOH[/QUOTE]

That is VERY dangerous territory to tread...

Just because it's "her wedding" (what about her FI?) doesn't mean that she has carte blanche to offend guests by telling them she thinks they're too stupid to figure out how to dress themselves. And by dictating attire to guests for an event that IS NOT black tie, that's exactly what she is doing. People will notice, even if they don't say it to the bride - it will likely be talked about plenty behind her back.

TripleJTobe

This thread has become ridiculous. Jacky: put it on the invite if you like There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Any evening wedding is, in my opinion, considered formal. It's not out of place or rude. Happy planning!!!

redheadfsu

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:baa522ce-3913-40b8-b696-25a8ebcec7fc">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]This thread has become ridiculous. Jacky: put it on the invite if you like :) There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Any evening wedding is, in my opinion, considered formal. It's not out of place or rude. Happy planning!!!
Posted by TripleJTobe[/QUOTE]

Well you are wrong. 

It <strong>is</strong> out of place as only black tie & white tie go on invites. Any other dress code on the invite is rude & incorrect.

Justpeachy4397

hey OP, I was in your position not too long ago, debating between "black tie," "black tie optional (which I know is a no-no)," or no direction at all on the invites. in terms of the actual wedding, it will be black tie (food, liquor, band, etc).

I [ignorantly] assumed most people from my fiance's side would not own or want to wear a tux (my fiance assumed this as well). My fiance even joked about hoping some of his relatives don't show up in cargo pants,much to my horror. Well, on a recent trip to his family's home, I was flipping through some old photo albums and much to my surprise almost EVERY guy was wearing a tux in the wedding photos!

this has made me feel better about not writing anything about attire on my invites. People are adults and figure out their own clothing choices. Even if they don't dress "appropriately," it's their decision to make, not yours.

I don't think the PPs were attacking you. They are just trying to help. And hopefully my recent experience will help you feel better about your decision!

MyUserName1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:baa522ce-3913-40b8-b696-25a8ebcec7fc">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]This thread has become ridiculous. Jacky: put it on the invite if you like :) There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Any evening wedding is, in my opinion, considered formal. It's not out of place or rude. Happy planning!!!
Posted by TripleJTobe[/QUOTE]

<div>wow.</div><div>
</div><div>just wow.</div><div>
</div><div>I just love it when people come onto the etiquette board and give advice containing terrible etiquette...</div>