Black tie optional

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:b7bd0af4-575f-43d2-a299-86ba6dfcc0e2">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : But does her website say anything about putting it on the invite? As that is the question at hand.
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]

<div align="left">Just found it. Emily Post says:
<li>Do not mention gifts or attire on the wedding invitation. If necessary, "Black tie" may be written in the lower right on a reception invitation. </li>
<p>However- nothing is mentioned about black tie optional - so this doesn't REALLY answer our question.

Link:
<a href="http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations">http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations</a></p></div>

Mrs.B6302007

I would think that by NOT mentioning it, it implies that it isn't an option (for wording on invitations).

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:208aed0b-09a1-41af-b031-1336e4a6b82a">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : But if OP's wedding just has a DJ, a buffet, cash bar (I'm just giving an example as I don't know what OP is doing) and everyone else is wearing just a normal suit/cocktail dress from the mall. When my husband and I stroll in, in a tux & long gown we would be out of place.
Posted by redheadfsu[/QUOTE]
Yes, in the particular situation of the OP, it would be in appropriate to put black tie optional on the invite, if the wedding wasn't going to be "top-notch" if that makes sense.

<div align="left">But the questions at hand now are:

What does Etiquette say about "black tie optional"? Is it a dress code?
Is it ok to put "black tie optional" on the invitation?

</div>

Mrs.B6302007

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:082f2719-543c-4a17-8ee2-4df70369c25f">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : All male guests should be in a minimum of a suit at a wedding, unless it is in a backyard or on the beach.
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]


Well, mine wsn't at the beach but it was still outdoors. I wouldn't have expected the guys to be in suits.

redheadfsu

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:b78accc7-cd0d-4d82-8c47-662bec68c1e7">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Just found it. Emily Post says: Do not mention gifts or attire on the wedding invitation. If necessary, "Black tie" may be written in the lower right on a reception invitation. However- nothing is mentioned about black tie optional - so this doesn't REALLY answer our question. Link: <a href="http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations" rel="nofollow">http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations</a>
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]

It says don't put attire on the invite, but one may put "black tie" so she seems to agree that any other attire (like "optional") would be rude to put on the invite.

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:855bb33e-265d-4008-aa4a-e62f2f3c5e70">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]I would think that by NOT mentioning it, it implies that it isn't an option (for wording on invitations).
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]

<div align="left">And now we are back to interpretation again.
I feel that if something is against the rules it should be clearly specified. And the wording of this rule is actually a little contradictory to begin with, because it says "never put attire information on the invite" and then it says it is ok to put black tie.
So which is it?</div>

adamar15

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:b78accc7-cd0d-4d82-8c47-662bec68c1e7">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Just found it. Emily Post says: Do not mention gifts or attire on the wedding invitation. If necessary, "Black tie" may be written in the lower right on a reception invitation. However- nothing is mentioned about black tie optional - so this doesn't REALLY answer our question. Link: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations">http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations</a>
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]

YES IT DOES.  Sweet jesus, you are a bit dense.</div>

cindyn9178

And now we are listning to Emily Post, who PPs just said is outdated and they prefer other experts. LOL.. I guess it is just whoever's rule is the same as your opinions!

cindyn9178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:57559da3-4bd9-479b-8de9-d6b558204f83">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Well, mine wsn't at the beach but it was still outdoors. I wouldn't have expected the guys to be in suits.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]

Yes, an outdoor wedding would definitely be considered more casual and not require a suit for the male guests.. also the day of the week is a factor, for example a Tuesday morning, or a Sunday afternoon.

redheadfsu

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:7765548f-5dde-4a3b-9c52-f66d0bfc5a43">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : And now we are back to interpretation again. I feel that if something is against the rules it should be clearly specified. And the wording of this rule is actually a little contradictory to begin with, because it says "never put attire information on the invite" and then it says it is ok to put black tie. So which is it?
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]

Because Emily Post hated <u>any attire</u> being put on the invite. However, "black tie" was typically ok (but she personally still hated any attire being on the invite). (From what I remember).

Meg1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:a9898953-2070-4513-b8da-a02ab7df661a">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]And now we are listning to Emily Post, who PPs just said is outdated and they prefer other experts. LOL.. I guess it is just whoever's rule is the same as your opinions!
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]

Emily Post is a good source (her kids, who have taken over, sometimes go off track).  As is Miss Manners.

Regardless, the rule provided basically reads that you really shouldn't put any attire on the invitation.  Only <em>if necessary</em> should "black tie" be listed.  Nothing about "black tie optional," meaning it is not an exception to the rule of not listing attire on an invitation.

Mrs.B6302007

What about nudists?  Would "clothing optional" be okay to put on their invitations since some of their guests would likely be nudists and others wouldn't? 


Just trying to lighten things up in here.

Mrs.B6302007

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:2748a70a-38bb-47ac-9092-02718a33fdea">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]I would love to see the response rate for a clothing optional wedding.
Posted by Liatris2010[/QUOTE]


Or the RSVP cards themselves


__guest declines
__ accepts but will be clothed
__ accepts but will be clothed until after dinner and the alcohol kicks in
__accepts but will be unclothed for the entire evening.  Please give me a chair with a plastic slip cover!

redheadfsu

A clothing optional wedding gives a whole new meaning to wedding porn

Nickivegan

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:11c6b2ba-6fbc-415c-b5b6-8d43c808256c">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Or the RSVP cards themselves __guest declines __ accepts but will be clothed __ accepts but will be clothed until after dinner and the alcohol kicks in __accepts but will be unclothed for the entire evening.  Please give me a chair with a plastic slip cover!
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]


Clearly I did my wedding wrong!
Do over next summer, all of you are invited- PM your addresses now for the party of the year!

Seriously though, I had an outdoor wedding ceremony indoor/outdoor reception at a horse farm. People were confused with how to dress for the 4:00 start time. But they all figured it out, and the day went fabulously! It was hot, so many changed.

Jacky225

Wow this really has gotten out of hand.  I tried not to come back to this board because it was really going in a different direction than expected but when I noticed how many posts, I had to look.  For everyone saying I think my FI family is stupid and does not know how to dress - WRONGGGG or as some of you said FAIL.  My FI family is NOT from NJ and has NEVER been to a NJ wedding.  They have no iidea what to expect.  In the words of my own FI, "they are going to fall on the floor when they see our wedding".  Therefore I need to let them know how to dress.  I am not MAKING them dress a certain way.  And whoever is saying that black tie = open bar, white glove, band, etc then I guess every wedding I have been to in NJ is black tie.  I am having all of that plus more.  I do not consider that black tie.  I consider it extremely formal and would like for people to dress appropriately. 

In addition for all of you saying I feel attacked because you didn't agree with me- so not the case.  In fact, my recent post on aisle runners...  I wanted it out before the guests arrived and most of the board said it should be before I walk down.  And they made me change my mind about it.  So I am open to changes just not when people are telling me I am rude and think my future inlaws are stupid and act like they are the almighty know-it-alls and do not give anyone a chance to speak their mind.  Never once did I say they are stupid.  I said they have never been to a NJ wedding before and probably will not know how to dress. 


Cindy- appreciate all the back up  

adamar15

So NJ is the only state where it is generally the norm that guests dress nicely to weddings?  Interesting.

Habs2Hart

Cindy - Is your skull particularly thick?  How are you not getting it? 

She said that BLACK TIE can be mentioned.  That's it.  Which is what we've all said.  Black Tie.  Nothing else.  Which is exactly what Emily Post said. 

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:5174e260-277b-47b3-832f-97baf3c97d53">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow this really has gotten out of hand.  I tried not to come back to this board because it was really going in a different direction than expected but when I noticed how many posts, I had to look.  For everyone saying I think my FI family is stupid and does not know how to dress - WRONGGGG or as some of you said FAIL.  My FI family is NOT from NJ and has NEVER been to a NJ wedding.  They have no iidea what to expect.  In the words of my own FI, "they are going to fall on the floor when they see our wedding".  Therefore I need to let them know how to dress.  I am not MAKING them dress a certain way.  And whoever is saying that black tie = open bar, white glove, band, etc then I guess every wedding I have been to in NJ is black tie.  I am having all of that plus more.  I do not consider that black tie.  I consider it extremely formal and would like for people to dress appropriately.  In addition for all of you saying I feel attacked because you didn't agree with me- so not the case.  In fact, my recent post on aisle runners...  I wanted it out before the guests arrived and most of the board said it should be before I walk down.  And they made me change my mind about it.  So I am open to changes just not when people are telling me I am rude and think my future inlaws are stupid and act like they are the almighty know-it-alls and do not give anyone a chance to speak their mind.  Never once did I say they are stupid.  I said they have never been to a NJ wedding before and probably will not know how to dress.  <strong>Cindy- appreciate all the back up :) </strong>
Posted by Jacky225[/QUOTE]


AKA:  Thanks for validating my bad decisions!

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:b78accc7-cd0d-4d82-8c47-662bec68c1e7">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Just found it. Emily Post says: Do not mention gifts or attire on the wedding invitation. If necessary, "Black tie" may be written in the lower right on a reception invitation. <strong>However- nothing is mentioned about black tie optional - so this doesn't REALLY answer our question.</strong> Link: <a href="http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations" rel="nofollow">http://www.emilypost.com/weddings/wedding-invitations-and-announcements/335-wording-formal-wedding-invitations</a>
Posted by cindyn9178[/QUOTE]

FFS woman! If "black Tie Optional" was appropriate to put on an invitation then Emily Post would have said so. The lack of mentioning it is your answer. Just stop already. The fact that she doesn't say "black tie optional" is ok makes it NOT ok. Jesus christ on a cracker. Will you just STFU already?

Meg1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:d4902e3a-63d8-4e76-9298-d4eecfd6b796">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : FFS woman! If "black Tie Optional" was appropriate to put on an invitation then Emily Post would have said so. The lack of mentioning it is your answer. Just stop already. The fact that she doesn't say "black tie optional" is ok makes it NOT ok. Jesus christ on a cracker. Will you just STFU already?
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]

Yep, she's shut up here.  And gone back to tell her local how mean and wrong we are.  But I'm pretty ok with that, because at least now I know that all New Jersey weddings are speshul and definitely more formal than my poor midwestern self could ever appropriately dress for without instructions on the invitation.

PetalPockets2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:8896df97-6f63-43c6-b1af-9fab570c4182">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]Cindy - <strong>Is your skull particularly thick?  How are you not getting it?</strong>  She said that BLACK TIE can be mentioned.  That's it.  Which is what we've all said.  Black Tie.  Nothing else.  Which is exactly what Emily Post said. 
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]

Maybe she is trying to get her post count up. Because I really don't know any other reason for her to keep going that isn't related to the thickness of the skull.

mkrupar

OP just becuse your FIs family hasn't been to a NJ wedding before, doesn't mean they won't know how to dress appropriately for one. That is basically what everyone's point is. You're assuming they're not smart enough to know that they should dress appropriately. You said that, not any of us.

Apparently only Jersey people know how to throw the "right" kind of weddings. Or they're just so klassy that ALL of their weddings are black tie and they didn't even know it! (No offense to my Jersey girls I love, but these two are making you all look terrible). 

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:ead80dea-393d-4c2b-ae4b-a146a6cc5a85">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : Yep, she's shut up here.  And gone back to tell her local how mean and wrong we are.  But I'm pretty ok with that, because at least now I know that all New Jersey weddings are speshul and definitely more formal than my poor midwestern self could ever appropriately dress for without instructions on the invitation.
Posted by Meg1036[/QUOTE]

great so now I've got to go to the Jersey board?

Meg1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:d7a46b85-72c3-45d3-9099-2047ac6759cd">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black tie optional : great so now I've got to go to the Jersey board?
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]

If you like arguing with a brick wall.

adamar15

Please do, MK.  It's pretty fucking hilarious. 

redheadfsu

I'm not from NJ and I know how to dress. How thick do you have to be to not understand saying something like, they aren't from NJ so they don't know how to dress, is very offensive?

ggirl2001

I wonder if the op realizes that people are going to dress how they want regardless of what the invite says.

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_black-tie-optional-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bccd5533-37bd-4ff9-842f-6beb78fc4666Post:ac283f18-b696-4513-af35-fe142bb4453d">Re: Black tie optional</a>:
[QUOTE]I wonder if the op realizes that people are going to dress how they want regardless of what the invite says.
Posted by ggirl2001[/QUOTE]

I forgot to make this point.

sparent2010

x.x seriously?