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Etiquette

Cash Bars - Everything you need to know in one place

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Re: Cash Bars - Everything you need to know in one place

  • NYCBruin said:
    NYCBruin said:

    Oh FFS of course I read my fucking contract and know exactly how the money allocation breaks down. Trust me, being a recent law school grad and not wanting to be an asshole to the waitstaff, I made sure I had that all in writing. 

    And thanks for making my point that bartenders already make more than everyone else so your previous point about "they need the money" is moot.  Most people think they deserve to make more money.  Doesn't mean they're entitled to it or are justified at doing a shitty job at work.

    And way to give bartenders a bad name.  Most bartenders aren't dicks.  Maybe you just know a lot of awful human beings.  Wouldn't surprise me.
    Congrats on your graduation. Making more money than someone else doesn't mean one doesn't need it. More money, more problems as they say. Most bartenders aren't dicks, you're right. But most bartenders aren't what you think they are either. Let's not concern ourselves with what many are, I'll let you believe what you want. I'm not here trying to torch the fantasy of "hospitality." As for my knowing some pretty awful human beings, yes, yes I do. My industry is made up by all sorts of drunks, addicts, thieves, sexual harassers, I look around some days and it's sometimes like the bar scene from Star Wars. But I know some amazing people too. Just last night one of my bartenders bought a lady $40 worth of to-go food because her card declined and she was so humiliated she started to cry. He took it right out of his wallet. And on his off time he deals weed and is sleeping with no fewer than 3 of our servers none of them the wiser. Clearly I'm surrounded by examples of relative morality on the daily. But the last individual I'd like my morals, or the morals of my friends, employees and loved ones judged by is a lawyer. That's just rich. 
    1.  Paragraphs are your friend.  I'm not that concerned with proper paragraph structure at the moment. Obviously. 

    2. None of what you posted is relevant at all to this conversation.  You still haven't illustrated why not double tipping is rude. I've explained it repeatedly on this board - you can go back and reread, I won't be going back pages to copy/paste, re-quote, etc. I explained it when I got involved with this thread. Once is enough, twice seems standard here on TK. I'm not motivated enough to see if the third time's a charm.

    3.  FFS I have a ton of friends who are/were bartenders and/or own bars.  FI was a bartender for years.  You aren't the only one on this board who is familiar with the service industry.  Several other posters have stated that they either know or are bartenders who don't think not double tipping is rude. I'm glad for you, you're in good company. I didn't see a single bartender post anywhere on here. But I'm not planning to re-read this nonsense in order to disprove this. I'm pretty well all good when I said something along the lines of, cool, I'll keep tipping, y'all do what what you want. 

    4.  Where did I judge your morals? When you said, "Maybe you just know a lot of awful human beings.  Wouldn't surprise me." And why is that exactly? Unless you're making some kind of morality judgement about me. I just said your opinion that not double tipping is rude isn't correct from an etiquette standpoint.  FFS I said earlier that I always double tip anyways.  But thanks for the personal attack that has nothing to do with this conversation.  I'm sure the other lawyers on this board also appreciate you resorting to negative/cliche/untrue stereotypes.  My apologies, it was a low blow. 

    5.  Most importantly, and this bears repeating since you don't seem to be getting it, none of what you have said/are saying has illustrated why it is rude to not double tip. See your #2.


  • APDSS22APDSS22 O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A is OK member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    NYCBruin said:

    Oh FFS of course I read my fucking contract and know exactly how the money allocation breaks down. Trust me, being a recent law school grad and not wanting to be an asshole to the waitstaff, I made sure I had that all in writing. 

    And thanks for making my point that bartenders already make more than everyone else so your previous point about "they need the money" is moot.  Most people think they deserve to make more money.  Doesn't mean they're entitled to it or are justified at doing a shitty job at work.

    And way to give bartenders a bad name.  Most bartenders aren't dicks.  Maybe you just know a lot of awful human beings.  Wouldn't surprise me.
    Congrats on your graduation. Making more money than someone else doesn't mean one doesn't need it. More money, more problems as they say. Most bartenders aren't dicks, you're right. But most bartenders aren't what you think they are either. Let's not concern ourselves with what many are, I'll let you believe what you want. I'm not here trying to torch the fantasy of "hospitality." As for my knowing some pretty awful human beings, yes, yes I do. My industry is made up by all sorts of drunks, addicts, thieves, sexual harassers, I look around some days and it's sometimes like the bar scene from Star Wars. But I know some amazing people too. Just last night one of my bartenders bought a lady $40 worth of to-go food because her card declined and she was so humiliated she started to cry. He took it right out of his wallet. And on his off time he deals weed and is sleeping with no fewer than 3 of our servers none of them the wiser. Clearly I'm surrounded by examples of relative morality on the daily. But the last individual I'd like my morals, or the morals of my friends, employees and loved ones judged by is a lawyer. That's just rich. 
    This is just about the most insulting thing so far. I am not a lawyer. I am in healthcare as previously stated. However your assumptions are outrageous. NYCBruin was merely trying to make the point that because of her background as a lawyer, she was very careful about the contract that was drawn up. She said nothing whatsoever about your morals or implied in any way that she was better than anyone else. She was merely drawing from what she know. Similar to how I draw from what I know in my posts.

    As a healthcare professional, receiving tips is illegal, and most of us are overworked and underpaid and get treated like shit on an hourly basis. We don't get the luxury of treating some people better than others because they give us money. We treat everyone equally because that's our job.

    So don't start again with this entitled "poor bartenders, they are under appreciated" BS! Many professions are not appreciated and we don't get the opportunity to get paid twice.

    As previously stated, I always tip, and I tip well, but I think that your comments come of as entitled and asinine. The bartenders are already being tipped. Anything in excess of that should be accepted graciously.
    This so much!  We're coming up on the peak season/Christmas and I work in retail.  It would be great to get tips, especially random extra tips on top of that just for doing my job correctly.

    doeydoaurorajanetteDreamergirl8812
  • NYCBruin said:

    Oh FFS of course I read my fucking contract and know exactly how the money allocation breaks down. Trust me, being a recent law school grad and not wanting to be an asshole to the waitstaff, I made sure I had that all in writing. 

    And thanks for making my point that bartenders already make more than everyone else so your previous point about "they need the money" is moot.  Most people think they deserve to make more money.  Doesn't mean they're entitled to it or are justified at doing a shitty job at work.

    And way to give bartenders a bad name.  Most bartenders aren't dicks.  Maybe you just know a lot of awful human beings.  Wouldn't surprise me.
    Congrats on your graduation. Making more money than someone else doesn't mean one doesn't need it. More money, more problems as they say. Most bartenders aren't dicks, you're right. But most bartenders aren't what you think they are either. Let's not concern ourselves with what many are, I'll let you believe what you want. I'm not here trying to torch the fantasy of "hospitality." As for my knowing some pretty awful human beings, yes, yes I do. My industry is made up by all sorts of drunks, addicts, thieves, sexual harassers, I look around some days and it's sometimes like the bar scene from Star Wars. But I know some amazing people too. Just last night one of my bartenders bought a lady $40 worth of to-go food because her card declined and she was so humiliated she started to cry. He took it right out of his wallet. And on his off time he deals weed and is sleeping with no fewer than 3 of our servers none of them the wiser. Clearly I'm surrounded by examples of relative morality on the daily. But the last individual I'd like my morals, or the morals of my friends, employees and loved ones judged by is a lawyer. That's just rich. 
    This is just about the most insulting thing so far. I am not a lawyer. I am in healthcare as previously stated. However your assumptions are outrageous. NYCBruin was merely trying to make the point that because of her background as a lawyer, she was very careful about the contract that was drawn up. She said nothing whatsoever about your morals or implied in any way that she was better than anyone else. She was merely drawing from what she know. Similar to how I draw from what I know in my posts.

    As a healthcare professional, receiving tips is illegal, and most of us are overworked and underpaid and get treated like shit on an hourly basis. We don't get the luxury of treating some people better than others because they give us money. We treat everyone equally because that's our job.

    So don't start again with this entitled "poor bartenders, they are under appreciated" BS! Many professions are not appreciated and we don't get the opportunity to get paid twice.

    As previously stated, I always tip, and I tip well, but I think that your comments come of as entitled and asinine. The bartenders are already being tipped. Anything in excess of that should be accepted graciously.
    This so much!  We're coming up on the peak season/Christmas and I work in retail.  It would be great to get tips, especially random extra tips on top of that just for doing my job correctly.
    You should probably just swap out merchandize for faulty/defective/broken merchandize when someone tries to pay at the register without tipping you.
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
    aurorajanette
  • APDSS22APDSS22 O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A is OK member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    NYCBruin said:
    NYCBruin said:

    Oh FFS of course I read my fucking contract and know exactly how the money allocation breaks down. Trust me, being a recent law school grad and not wanting to be an asshole to the waitstaff, I made sure I had that all in writing. 

    And thanks for making my point that bartenders already make more than everyone else so your previous point about "they need the money" is moot.  Most people think they deserve to make more money.  Doesn't mean they're entitled to it or are justified at doing a shitty job at work.

    And way to give bartenders a bad name.  Most bartenders aren't dicks.  Maybe you just know a lot of awful human beings.  Wouldn't surprise me.
    Congrats on your graduation. Making more money than someone else doesn't mean one doesn't need it. More money, more problems as they say. Most bartenders aren't dicks, you're right. But most bartenders aren't what you think they are either. Let's not concern ourselves with what many are, I'll let you believe what you want. I'm not here trying to torch the fantasy of "hospitality." As for my knowing some pretty awful human beings, yes, yes I do. My industry is made up by all sorts of drunks, addicts, thieves, sexual harassers, I look around some days and it's sometimes like the bar scene from Star Wars. But I know some amazing people too. Just last night one of my bartenders bought a lady $40 worth of to-go food because her card declined and she was so humiliated she started to cry. He took it right out of his wallet. And on his off time he deals weed and is sleeping with no fewer than 3 of our servers none of them the wiser. Clearly I'm surrounded by examples of relative morality on the daily. But the last individual I'd like my morals, or the morals of my friends, employees and loved ones judged by is a lawyer. That's just rich. 
    This is just about the most insulting thing so far. I am not a lawyer. I am in healthcare as previously stated. However your assumptions are outrageous. NYCBruin was merely trying to make the point that because of her background as a lawyer, she was very careful about the contract that was drawn up. She said nothing whatsoever about your morals or implied in any way that she was better than anyone else. She was merely drawing from what she know. Similar to how I draw from what I know in my posts.

    As a healthcare professional, receiving tips is illegal, and most of us are overworked and underpaid and get treated like shit on an hourly basis. We don't get the luxury of treating some people better than others because they give us money. We treat everyone equally because that's our job.

    So don't start again with this entitled "poor bartenders, they are under appreciated" BS! Many professions are not appreciated and we don't get the opportunity to get paid twice.

    As previously stated, I always tip, and I tip well, but I think that your comments come of as entitled and asinine. The bartenders are already being tipped. Anything in excess of that should be accepted graciously.
    This so much!  We're coming up on the peak season/Christmas and I work in retail.  It would be great to get tips, especially random extra tips on top of that just for doing my job correctly.
    You should probably just swap out merchandize for faulty/defective/broken merchandize when someone tries to pay at the register without tipping you.
    I hope you don't mind if I share this with everyone at work tomorrow.  We already have to listen to "Jingle Bells" an average of 2 times per hour, I think my coworkers could appreciate an evil chuckle.

    aurorajanettekitty8403

  • You should probably just swap out merchandize for faulty/defective/broken merchandize when someone tries to pay at the register without tipping you.
    I hope you don't mind if I share this with everyone at work tomorrow.  We already have to listen to "Jingle Bells" an average of 2 times per hour, I think my coworkers could appreciate an evil chuckle.
    I mean, it's definitely not as awesome as poisoning people for not paying you extra money for doing their jobs, but it's something ;)
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
    APDSS22aurorajanette
  • APDSS22APDSS22 O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A is OK member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    NYCBruin said:

    You should probably just swap out merchandize for faulty/defective/broken merchandize when someone tries to pay at the register without tipping you.
    I hope you don't mind if I share this with everyone at work tomorrow.  We already have to listen to "Jingle Bells" an average of 2 times per hour, I think my coworkers could appreciate an evil chuckle.
    I mean, it's definitely not as awesome as poisoning people for not paying you extra money for doing their jobs, but it's something ;)
    If only...oh well.  I'll have to stick with my typical "have a nice day!" that really means "okay, now get the eff out of my place of business."  Luckily, I don't work the register as much anymore but I do occasionally have to be that person standing next to the new trainee explaining that the coupon doesn't work on that item because it's clearance, exempted on the coupon, etc.

    aurorajanette
  • I have explained numerous times now why it is appropriate to tip your bartender while at a hosted event - there is no guarantee what percentage of the auto grat he or she is walking away with. Assuming that your couple of bucks added to whatever their percentage of the tip pool is going to equal "double" tipping is silly. They may walk with 25 maybe 30% which would be a stellar night. But Bill Gates money it is not. 

    I agree all sorts of professions are underpaid. My mother runs operating rooms for a living and has been an RN for over 30 years. The issues of over-work and under-pay in healthcare is staggering. It's a damn shame you all can't take tips, you deserve it!

    Fuck ladies, don't tip your bartenders at the next wedding you attend. It hurts me none. Using my welcome home party as the best example I can come up with - we (the hosts) will be leaving our bartender(s) a very generous tip. Our guests will too, because that's how they are. The bartender(s) will hopefully make a killing that day. I HOPE s/he ends up with 40% or more when it's all said and done. That's what he or she is in it for, the money. 

    My attitude on this matter is anything but entitled - I've already explained I've been salaried a really long time. I may advocate for tipped employees until I'm blue in the face but in the end it has very little to do with me personally. If you all decide to not tip bartenders extra at hosted events, that is your prerogative. 

    [Deleted User]
  • NYCBruin said:
    I have explained numerous times now why it is appropriate to tip your bartender while at a hosted event - there is no guarantee what percentage of the auto grat he or she is walking away with. Assuming that your couple of bucks added to whatever their percentage of the tip pool is going to equal "double" tipping is silly. They may walk with 25 maybe 30% which would be a stellar night. But Bill Gates money it is not. 

    I agree all sorts of professions are underpaid. My mother runs operating rooms for a living and has been an RN for over 30 years. The issues of over-work and under-pay in healthcare is staggering. It's a damn shame you all can't take tips, you deserve it!

    Fuck ladies, don't tip your bartenders at the next wedding you attend. It hurts me none. Using my welcome home party as the best example I can come up with - we (the hosts) will be leaving our bartender(s) a very generous tip. Our guests will too, because that's how they are. The bartender(s) will hopefully make a killing that day. I HOPE s/he ends up with 40% or more when it's all said and done. That's what he or she is in it for, the money. 

    My attitude on this matter is anything but entitled - I've already explained I've been salaried a really long time. I may advocate for tipped employees until I'm blue in the face but in the end it has very little to do with me personally. If you all decide to not tip bartenders extra at hosted events, that is your prerogative. 
    So I assume if someone invites you to dinner you also slip in extra cash into a waiter's hand as you're leaving the restaurant because after all you can't be sure that the person kind enough to take you to dinner tipped enough? That depends on my hosts. I'd be lying if I said I've never gone back in to a restaurant under the guise of needing to use the bathroom to leave extra money - old people for example are notoriously bad tippers. I'm not going to embarrass my FI's grandparents by insulting their gratuity but I'm not going to jack our server either because  they think 10% before tax is ok. 

    What I'm gathering is that you assume the worst of hosts (by thinking they aren't tipping appropriately) and that's why you think it's rude to not tip bartenders.  By your own logic, you must also slip every member of the waitstaff a twenty because otherwise you would be being quite rude to them since the hosts probably aren't tipping them enough either. I've already answered this - servers should be taken care of within in the tip pool. I think servers should make less money than bartenders (as previously stated). Their jobs are considerably easier in a plated dinner scenario, even easier where there's a buffet. They also work far fewer hours than bartenders with a group of people far more sober. They also take on a lot less personal legal liability on themselves (depending on state law). By the time a bartender leaves work at a wedding reception the servers who worked the same event have been asleep for hours. Or at the bar, four rounds deep, but that's a whole other discussion. 

    Oh and I think it's rather rude of you to assume that the hosts of an event you're attending are too moronic to make sure that they have tipped everyone. My assumptions about hosts being morons (or not) is completely irrelevant. My industry has already seen to this quandary by making gratuities mandatory in event contracts prior to the event even taking place. Sadly, it's not even a gratuity in the eyes of the law, it is a mandatory fee which is why in many states gratuity tax must also be applied and passed on to the host. We could debate if more people were fair tippers venues wouldn't have to apply mandatory gratuities thus passing along extra taxes to be paid by the hosts additionally. But I'm tired and parsing gratuity tax here on TK sounds almost as painful as it is when I must parse it while negotiating event contracts at work. Really, my point has always been there's very little way to guarantee everyone is getting what they're supposed to and there's nothing wrong with their getting more (at the same time guaranteeing yourself as the additional tipper better attention than the average guest). Worse than moronic hosts (and more prevalent I'll admit) are shady owners and managers who never let their service staff see the contract (keeping the true amount owed secret) then skimming off the top before distributing the gratuities. There's not as much money in banquet service as one might assume. I'm not going to cast aspersions on banquet staffs, there's some awesome people working for caterers and venues, but no one is making a killing that is for sure. They are usually made up of students, single moms (because of the days of the weeks and hours), second or third jobs for industry types and ultra part-timers. If any of them walk with 25-30% percent and the guest received even better service, everyone's a winner!


    [Deleted User]
  • Fran1985 Fran1985 Narnia member
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 500 Comments Name Dropper
    Ok so I always tip at weddings. I know I am double tipping, but I still tip as a former bartender. All the things you said about the banquet staff, getting better service, faster drinks, etc are usually true, and I think we can all agree that a tip that leads to better service is a win win for both guest and bartender, but that has nothing to do with it being rude to not tip. Its fine to tip extra, but its not rude to not tip at a hosted event.

    image
    [Deleted User]AlexisA01
  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    So what I am taking away from all of this craziness is to basically pay off my server and bartender (since they are the only profession that is grossly under paid and under appreciated) so that I don't have fecal matter put in my food or visine dumped in my drink.

    Miley Say What?

    KeptInStitchesAPDSS22
  • ashleyepashleyep member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary
    edited November 2013
    I have explained numerous times now why it is appropriate to tip your bartender while at a hosted event - there is no guarantee what percentage of the auto grat he or she is walking away with. Assuming that your couple of bucks added to whatever their percentage of the tip pool is going to equal "double" tipping is silly. They may walk with 25 maybe 30% which would be a stellar night. But Bill Gates money it is not. 

    I agree all sorts of professions are underpaid. My mother runs operating rooms for a living and has been an RN for over 30 years. The issues of over-work and under-pay in healthcare is staggering. It's a damn shame you all can't take tips, you deserve it!

    Fuck ladies, don't tip your bartenders at the next wedding you attend. It hurts me none. Using my welcome home party as the best example I can come up with - we (the hosts) will be leaving our bartender(s) a very generous tip. Our guests will too, because that's how they are. The bartender(s) will hopefully make a killing that day. I HOPE s/he ends up with 40% or more when it's all said and done. That's what he or she is in it for, the money. 

    My attitude on this matter is anything but entitled - I've already explained I've been salaried a really long time. I may advocate for tipped employees until I'm blue in the face but in the end it has very little to do with me personally. If you all decide to not tip bartenders extra at hosted events, that is your prerogative. 
    The bolded is not my problem. If my venue includes an auto-grat on bar pricing and you don't get a fair percentage of it, then that's something you need to bring up with your employer. I've already paid the required tip.

    And of course a couple of dollars per drink is double tipping. 20% on a $6 drink is $1.20, tack on another $1 in tip and you've just doubled your tip.

    No one said bartenders are rolling in the dough, but earning 20% tip on a $4000 bar bill is a helluva lot of money. I'd LOVE to make $800/night. Even if bartenders don't get all of the auto-grat on that, it's still a fuckton of money for a few hours work. Get off your high horse and stop being so damn entitled. 

    I have no problem with a guest tipping extra on an open bar, and if I was a bartender I would greatly appreciate it. It's a nice thing to do. I don't think anyone here is arguing whether you should or shouldn't do it. But to act as if it's required or rude not to is no different than a bride being pissed off that someone didn't give her a gift - which again, is certainly nice, but absolutely not required. 
    Anniversary
    aurorajanettexhellokittyAPDSS22doeydo
  • NYCBruin said:
    @STBMrsEverhart ;

    You certainly make a lot of ASS-umptions.

    Now since my head hurts from repeatedly banging it against the wall, I'm just going to leave this here:

    No, just be wrong. Just stand there in your wrongness and be wrong and get used to it
    I couldn't be less wrong. Like I said, y'all do what you want. No skin off my nose.

  • banana468 said:
    Again, all this says to me is @stbmrseverhart is that you think you know better than the hosts of an event. There are people like that all over and the bottom line is that YOU think that YOU know more than the people hosting you. Do you not understand how such a condescending attitude is beyond rude to the people welcoming you?
    There's no doubt in my mind I often do. You can tip, or not, you won't be at any event I host, so why should I care what you choose to do?

    AroundTheBlock[Deleted User]
  • So what I am taking away from all of this craziness is to basically pay off my server and bartender (since they are the only profession that is grossly under paid and under appreciated) so that I don't have fecal matter put in my food or visine dumped in my drink.

    Miley Say What?
    If that's what you've taken from this, you're a lot more dense than I originally thought.

    AroundTheBlock[Deleted User]

  • banana468 said:

    Again, all this says to me is @stbmrseverhart is that you think you know better than the hosts of an event.

    There are people like that all over and the bottom line is that YOU think that YOU know more than the people hosting you. Do you not understand how such a condescending attitude is beyond rude to the people welcoming you?

    There's no doubt in my mind I often do. You can tip, or not, you won't be at any event I host, so why should I care what you choose to do?

    Well if I'm at an event you're hosting you're double tipping right?

    PrettyGirlLostKeptInStitchesPolarBearFitzlovesclimbing
  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    So what I am taking away from all of this craziness is to basically pay off my server and bartender (since they are the only profession that is grossly under paid and under appreciated) so that I don't have fecal matter put in my food or visine dumped in my drink.

    Miley Say What?
    If that's what you've taken from this, you're a lot more dense than I originally thought.
    Are you fucking kidding me?  Get off your fucking high "I work in events" horse and come back down to reality.  This thread has gotten fucking ridiculous and I was making light of that.  Maybe you are the one that is more dense then I originally thought.

    PrettyGirlLostPolarBearFitzDreamergirl8812grumbledore
  • I just want to say that I am an over tipper! If I have it to tip,
    Emmy1493
  • arrippaarrippa Sam Adams Craft Commonwealth member
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    I just got into a heated discussion with a coworker about open vs cash bars. She is firmly on cash bar and no matter what I say, she is NOT having an open bar. I discovered it boils down to the fact that she does not think the reception is a thank you to guests. She views it as partying with the guests instead. It was getting loud so I left and went back to my desk.

  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston member
    10000 Comments Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    moemacWed30594 said:
    I just got into a heated discussion with a coworker about open vs cash bars. She is firmly on cash bar and no matter what I say, she is NOT having an open bar. I discovered it boils down to the fact that she does not think the reception is a thank you to guests. She views it as partying with the guests instead. It was getting loud so I left and went back to my desk.
    I hope your co-worker understands when everyone leaves en masse.
  • i dont know  if anyone is from canada but we usually have toonie bars, meaning 2 dollars per drink.

    AroundTheBlockmimiphin
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